well this escalated more than I thought...
Maybe the words I used are to straight forward, but still who could trust a person like him running away and all..
Okay not everybody is the same and not everybody has courage, but Kenny had to change allot of pants after sh*tting his pants and running or backing off..
whatever play-through I played I always kept the feeling of little respect for being around Lee&Clem from beginning, but not trust worthy in most situations..
And if he is on season 2, I would like a option to leave him somehow..and if not to much asked I would be pleased with that option right at the beginning..
Srry Kenny fans but that is my opinion and whatever argument you bring, this is still (mostly) a free world and own opinions
On the bright side, I believe (but I can't remember exactly, so I'm not totally sure) that Telltale said that Season 2 would have more story branching. If so, I'm sure you'll have the option to leave Kenny's ass in the dust somewhere along the line, which, frankly, I believe should have come at the end of Episode 4 in Season 1.
And if he is on season 2, I would like a option to leave him somehow..and if not to much asked I would be pleased with that option right at th… moree beginning..
Srry Kenny fans but that is my opinion and whatever argument you bring, this is still (mostly) a free world and own opinions
It didn't seem like Kenny cared all that much about Shawn past episode 1 to me. I mean, he practically insults Lee for trying save Shawn in ep.3 depending on your relationship with him. "Don't worry, you made out like a hero to [Duck]" much? And I saw Kenny as using Shawn's death as an excuse to avoid the problem more than anything, which I'll get to later.
About Katjaa, if you're not going to give your wife emotional support, at least don't be a complete asshat to her while your kid is dying. And if Kenny was really a good man, I'd think he'd put aside his personal grief and denial to support his loved ones. Lee says as much in one of his dialogue options. "You feel guilty, like you took away any chance of a miracle for Duck when you ran away from Shawn Greene. But there's no room for that shit, man. This isn't about you! This is about a woman back there who needs her husband and a boy who needs his dad!"
So what about the situations where Omid and Christa stay behind as well? They have the justification that they've known Lee for all of three days. Kenny, however, has known Clem since the apocalypse began and claims to care for her, so what reason could he have then for staying behind? And you talk as if Kenny stays behind with the boat because of his foresight and unshakeable sense of responsibility, when in reality he stays behind more so because of his grudge against Lee...
The main reason he told Lee to leave him with Ben was because he decided committing suicide was worth his time more than continuing to search for Clem. If he'd really cared about her, Kenny would've just shot Ben and went with Lee to rescue her.
I'm not trying to condone Lilly's actions, just pointing out that her situation was nothing like Kenny's and about a billion times worse than his, which is why it made sense that such similar character's went down such different paths. And while his anger towards Ben is arguably understandable, he had no reason to be a prick to Kat. The one time she tries to make him see reason ("I think Lee just wants to talk it through") he acts like an asshole to her ("It's TALKED THROUGH. Get on Kat"). And just going to point out that his anger towards Lee is not actually 'optional'; he's angry and abrasive no matter what your previous relationship is with him, though I admit his anger is understandable considering Duck's condition at the time.
Also, what does doing the hard thing have to do with being in a better situation than Lilly? And putting his money where his mouth is? Didn't the man give an impassioned speech about sticking it out for those you cared about, and then immediately stop his efforts to rescue Clem to have a party in a locked up alley with Ben and a walker horde?
And speaking of Larry, whether it was necessary or not, let's not forget that he was a completely remorseless ass to Lilly afterwards. Hell, Lee indeterminately gives a sincere apology to her even if he sides with Kenny. Kenny offers no such sympathies. A great man indeed.
And this is a bit off topic, but I really do like Kenny's character. So many ups and downs (mostly downs), so many things to love and hate about him. If nothing else, he gives us a shitton to argue about. I really hope Telltale doesn't fuck up with him next season. Either give him a good reason to be back or just make it a walker cameo.
That one time that is indeed a big deal.However you talk as if kenny had forgotten about it and brushed it aside. When in actuality he is the … moreone person that mentions it and brings it up the most. Hell, it's the reason he took it upon himself that duck's bite was supposedly his fault.
Giving his wife emotional support? Did you not see their conversation about killing duck, how the hell does he give her emotional support with the state he was in? And needing a friend to help in that situation is bad....what? So I guess lee would be a scumbag if he needed convincing if clem got bit?
Keeping an eye on the boat is unimportant and unsafe for clem when lee and co. are coming(or lee alone, but in this case kenny doesn't know about lee's bite)?....hell, one of the reasons kenny suggested killing lee if he fell again in the attic was to save her. It's also the main reason he told lee to go and leave him with Ben.
Oh? So just because she had no ti… [view original content]
What's interesting is that I've seen playthroughs where Kenny gives a completely different speech than the "suicide is bad" one. He instead talks about how he was a shitty husband, father, and friend and that he could've done more. No idea what determines which speech he gives though...
I'm saying it was a fitting end to his story, and a kind action, and indeed one that made me like him more, because of the big speech he made … moreabout how he doesn't mind sacrificing himself because he has nothing left to live for.
I don't remember Kenny saying that. He actually said the opposite after seeing the couple who committed suicide. He said committing suicide is wrong, and that they should keep trying to help each other no matter what happens, or something along those lines anyway.
But that's the same for the other character that you can influence you relationship with, Lilly. Lilly and Kenny are supposed to be assholes i… moref you don't support them and loyal friends if you do. If you don't support Lilly she lets Andy St John burn your face with the electric fence, she accuses you of being the one who stole the supplies and of course, kill Carley/Doug. And if you don't support Kenny he doesn't help you against Danny and doesn't help you lifting the door in the drugstore.
Thing is, even if you support Lilly to the max, she still kills Carley/Doug and ditches you out of the RV. Kenny never leaves you even if you try to ditch him by hiding the bite and saying you want to go alone.
I'm not saying any of them is better than the other (though the story clearly points that out), i'm saying they're like 2 face of the same coin. Any blame you put on Kenny, you can put on Lilly and vice-versa.
Umm... He kinda lost his entire family...
His wife committed suicide and his son is dying and he knows it. The reason he was such a dick on the train is because he's going through the 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Episode 4 and 5 is him going through the last two stages, and trying to find something to cope, which is why he was beginning to turn to alcoholism. Not only that, but if you save Ben, he sacrifices himself so he could be there with Ben and take on his pain. He was with you from the beginning, surviving through walkers, cannibals, loss of his family, and alcoholism. Now you tell me if he is a "Selfish coward"?
5 stages of grief, first and last time I heard that was on Scrubs... God I miss that show, perfect mix of funny moments and heartbreaking ones.
On-Topic : I agree with pretty much everything, even on my 1st playthrough where I ended up being on Lilly's side (didn't really intend to though) he still ended up coming with me to save Clementine and I found that his redemption arc at the end of episode 5 washed me of all the grudges I had against him. That being said I admit he can be a real pain in the ass if you're not on his side but that's how he's supposed to be. Him and Lilly are mirrored versions of each other, be a dick to any of them and they make you pay, hard. Be nice to them and they're very loyal (well, discounting the fact Lilly still kills C/D and ditches you on the road).
I'd like to see both of them return in S2, now that Lilly has nothing to do with the comics Lilly it might be possible. And a redemption arc like Kenny had would most certainly make more people love her, because the game is kinda unfair, giving Kenny such a thing and not Lilly (I understand the reasons tho her being intended to be comics Lilly and all).
Umm... He kinda lost his entire family...
His wife committed suicide and his son is dying and he knows it. The reason he was such a dick on … morethe train is because he's going through the 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Episode 4 and 5 is him going through the last two stages, and trying to find something to cope, which is why he was beginning to turn to alcoholism. Not only that, but if you save Ben, he sacrifices himself so he could be there with Ben and take on his pain. He was with you from the beginning, surviving through walkers, cannibals, loss of his family, and alcoholism. Now you tell me if he is a "Selfish coward"?
5 stages of grief, first and last time I heard that was on Scrubs... God I miss that show, perfect mix of funny moments and heartbreaking ones… more.
On-Topic : I agree with pretty much everything, even on my 1st playthrough where I ended up being on Lilly's side (didn't really intend to though) he still ended up coming with me to save Clementine and I found that his redemption arc at the end of episode 5 washed me of all the grudges I had against him. That being said I admit he can be a real pain in the ass if you're not on his side but that's how he's supposed to be. Him and Lilly are mirrored versions of each other, be a dick to any of them and they make you pay, hard. Be nice to them and they're very loyal (well, discounting the fact Lilly still kills C/D and ditches you on the road).
I'd like to see both of them return in S2, now that Lilly has nothing to do with the comics Lilly it might be possible. And a redemption arc like Kenny had woul… [view original content]
I didn't mean Kenny, I used my neighboor as an analogy for the other members of the forums, to say that they might get angry, or take it personally.
It's an old story anyway, but thought I'd clear that up
yea he's still selfish... afterall, we don't see anyone else act like he does throughout the game (leaving people to die, not wanting to save Clem for the sole reason of to spite Lee.) Pretty selfish if you ask me... as for being a coward, it depends on what episode your playing, he tends to flip flop when it comes to that.
Umm... He kinda lost his entire family...
His wife committed suicide and his son is dying and he knows it. The reason he was such a dick on … morethe train is because he's going through the 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Episode 4 and 5 is him going through the last two stages, and trying to find something to cope, which is why he was beginning to turn to alcoholism. Not only that, but if you save Ben, he sacrifices himself so he could be there with Ben and take on his pain. He was with you from the beginning, surviving through walkers, cannibals, loss of his family, and alcoholism. Now you tell me if he is a "Selfish coward"?
I hate Kenny, but for less who he is, because as a character, he's decent. I hate him because he and Lilly are the fucking same character. Yeah, I hate Lilly too. Every single aspect of their character mirrors the other one. Even Lilly killing Carley/Doug mirrors Kenny. Only Lilly was more noble in that moment. Don't get me wrong, Kenny had his moments of nobility as well, like the pharmacy in episode 1 (but holy fuck don't get me started in episode 3). If they weren't nearly identical in character arc and purpose, I'd like... hmm... I'd like them equally, honestly. However, that one detail has worsened them both in my eyes, and brought them down to a level that only Carley inhabits. I dislike them.
To be fair, Lilly saves the group in episode 3 by sniping that bandit regardless of how you treat her.
Jeez, her and Kenny really are 2 faces of the same coin.
Umm... He kinda lost his entire family...
His wife committed suicide and his son is dying and he knows it. The reason he was such a dick on … morethe train is because he's going through the 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Episode 4 and 5 is him going through the last two stages, and trying to find something to cope, which is why he was beginning to turn to alcoholism. Not only that, but if you save Ben, he sacrifices himself so he could be there with Ben and take on his pain. He was with you from the beginning, surviving through walkers, cannibals, loss of his family, and alcoholism. Now you tell me if he is a "Selfish coward"?
I hate Kenny, but for less who he is, because as a character, he's decent. I hate him because he and Lilly are the fucking same character. Yea… moreh, I hate Lilly too. Every single aspect of their character mirrors the other one. Even Lilly killing Carley/Doug mirrors Kenny. Only Lilly was more noble in that moment. Don't get me wrong, Kenny had his moments of nobility as well, like the pharmacy in episode 1 (but holy fuck don't get me started in episode 3). If they weren't nearly identical in character arc and purpose, I'd like... hmm... I'd like them equally, honestly. However, that one detail has worsened them both in my eyes, and brought them down to a level that only Carley inhabits. I dislike them.
Yeah, but still, Shane and Rick had a much closer relationship than Kenny and Lee so in the context of their relationships, with Shane's betrayal being worse, I still kind of compare them together. I liked Kenny in episode one and then things just went downhill fast, just like Shane. I think thats part of the reason I got so mad at Kenny. He just makes me sad.
She's boring. She immediately goes from being decently cool in episode 1, to being boring and predictable everywhere else. Half the time, I would say the line she was going to say before she would actually say it, once I understood the topic of the conversation. Aside from the time she started cussing out Lilly, that caught me off guard.
It's not broken, it's in classic style. Since there used to be no reddit style system on this website, there were no responses. And to make sure that there was no confusion, Telltale made all old posts like that. That thread's been around longer than I have.
the link wont work for me for some reason, (on a ps3) but if it's the "FUCK kenny" thread, it doesn't post like it should. (you cant post like on this one, every post goes to the bottom no matter what.)
I never said his actions weren't questionable (I (tried(and failed)) to save Larry), but they weren't all from selfishness: Kenny left the woman at the street (Beatrice) because he understood that he can receive more for the group that way and benefited everyone, although the way he wanted to go was unethical/immoral, he wasn't selfish; not the choice I would make, but it wasn't selfish. As for the Clem situation, its a "You scratch my back, I scratch yours" situation in addition to a play on words. You don't even have to agree with him all the way: You just need to support him during times of need. Lily was in the same boat: She was willing to do anything to survive, and Kenny soon adopted that idealism from her. In a way, Lily and Kenny flipped flopped positions by the end of Episode 2.
yea he's still selfish... afterall, we don't see anyone else act like he does throughout the game (leaving people to die, not wanting to save … moreClem for the sole reason of to spite Lee.) Pretty selfish if you ask me... as for being a coward, it depends on what episode your playing, he tends to flip flop when it comes to that.
True, but in a way, Kenny was somewhat justified: Had Larry been dead in that meat locker (which he wasn't) they would be screwed. His actions weren't out of selfishness or cowardliness, but paranoia and fear with experience backing it up. I ended up siding with Lily through episode 2 and 3 until she left, but I can defiantly see where Kenny come's from when he makes these choices; he doesn't pull them out of his ass, he thinks. Call it Karma and what not.
You mean the woman on the street at the beginning of episode 3 ? Leaving her was the best decision, at first I was like "Oh we have to save her !!!" and then we see her get bit ...
On the other hand you get enough time to scavenge for multiple things that might just save someone in your group. That decision was a no-brainer in my opinion, as cruel as that is.
I never said his actions weren't questionable (I (tried(and failed)) to save Larry), but they weren't all from selfishness: Kenny left the wom… morean at the street (Beatrice) because he understood that he can receive more for the group that way and benefited everyone, although the way he wanted to go was unethical/immoral, he wasn't selfish; not the choice I would make, but it wasn't selfish. As for the Clem situation, its a "You scratch my back, I scratch yours" situation in addition to a play on words. You don't even have to agree with him all the way: You just need to support him during times of need. Lily was in the same boat: She was willing to do anything to survive, and Kenny soon adopted that idealism from her. In a way, Lily and Kenny flipped flopped positions by the end of Episode 2.
My thought on the situation is that we are human. What makes a human different from an animal is our morals; it's not about survival, it's about right and wrong. I don't want the walker world to take my humanity away, turning me into a careless animal. I couldn't watch, or even hear someone being bitten again and again until she is so wounded that she can't get away, then being eaten alive. I keep thinking of an apple when I left her on my second playthrough: bite after bite taken from her flesh until nothing remained. I had nightmares (Yeah, I said it! Call me a p*ssy!) about me being in her shoes, and it was terrible.
You mean the woman on the street at the beginning of episode 3 ? Leaving her was the best decision, at first I was like "Oh we have to save he… morer !!!" and then we see her get bit ...
On the other hand you get enough time to scavenge for multiple things that might just save someone in your group. That decision was a no-brainer in my opinion, as cruel as that is.
Well... They were always in the same position to begin with. Just arguing asshole A, and arguing asshole B. Then, there was just B, and hopefully now, A and B are gone forever.
I never said his actions weren't questionable (I (tried(and failed)) to save Larry), but they weren't all from selfishness: Kenny left the wom… morean at the street (Beatrice) because he understood that he can receive more for the group that way and benefited everyone, although the way he wanted to go was unethical/immoral, he wasn't selfish; not the choice I would make, but it wasn't selfish. As for the Clem situation, its a "You scratch my back, I scratch yours" situation in addition to a play on words. You don't even have to agree with him all the way: You just need to support him during times of need. Lily was in the same boat: She was willing to do anything to survive, and Kenny soon adopted that idealism from her. In a way, Lily and Kenny flipped flopped positions by the end of Episode 2.
I'm not going to call someone a pussy because he felt empathy for someone, it's actually a proof you're a sensible person and the world sure would be a better place if we had more people like that.
My reasoning was that since she got bit then it didn't matter because she was going to die one way or the other. Sure it is heartless to let someone suffer but if anything happened to Clementine, if got sick or a wound that needed to be disinfected and we lacked the materials needed because of that event... I just wouldn't be able to forgive myself for killing her because I felt pity at someone I didn't even know.
My thought on the situation is that we are human. What makes a human different from an animal is our morals; it's not about survival, it's ab… moreout right and wrong. I don't want the walker world to take my humanity away, turning me into a careless animal. I couldn't watch, or even hear someone being bitten again and again until she is so wounded that she can't get away, then being eaten alive. I keep thinking of an apple when I left her on my second playthrough: bite after bite taken from her flesh until nothing remained. I had nightmares (Yeah, I said it! Call me a p*ssy!) about me being in her shoes, and it was terrible.
I'm not going to call someone a pussy because he felt empathy for someone, it's actually a proof you're a sensible person and the world sure w… moreould be a better place if we had more people like that.
My reasoning was that since she got bit then it didn't matter because she was going to die one way or the other. Sure it is heartless to let someone suffer but if anything happened to Clementine, if got sick or a wound that needed to be disinfected and we lacked the materials needed because of that event... I just wouldn't be able to forgive myself for killing her because I felt pity at someone I didn't even know.
There wasn't any "good" choice, just 2 bad ones.
I always saw that as a "I'm not going to wait around while crazed, drug addicted, rape happy murderers and rotting, undead corpses are both swarming through the walls just to save ONE person." I don't think he would have held the door shut had Lilly come to her senses earlier than she did, but he wouldn't have waited around for her if she'd kept shooting. I mean, even LEE says "Lilly, last chance!" before she snaps out of it.
But Merak and Byakuren are right, Kenny and Lilly really ARE very similar. It's too bad that he two of them never realized it.
He didn't insult Lee's action, rather he was sad about the way duck blamed himself. And excuse?! Lee was the one who brought it up. And how the hell is it an excuse to continue moving the train, if the mere mention of it makes him stop the train?
He wasn't an ass to her. and nobody simply puts away his personal grief just like that or flicks the anti-grief switch or whatever shit you believe. Kenny was more attached to duck than even Katcha as well. Now his keeping the train moving was still wrong and his viewpoint back then on duck's fate as well and lee's statement was on the spot. But negative character trait or stupider, assholeness? sure as hell not.
It's not about the grudge, if it was, kenny wouldn't say he'd still wait for lee by the boat even with lee bit. And he didn't straight up say no. He gave lee a chance to give a reason, and if lee says the magic word. "family". Simply reminding kenny of what's important, then kenny comes.
Plus, there's no true knowledge that Clementine was taken by vernon's group(and it turned out she wasn't anyway)
Kenny during the moment of rush was incorrect about what was best for clem, well shiiit, what an asshole, right?
a billion times worse? While kenny was slowly sinking into the depressing reality of having to accept duck's death when allofasudden katjaa suicides outta nowhere, no preparation for that, and still right after having to kill duck.(or watch duck die). And again, how the hell was he a prick to katjaa? Based on his this discussion is over, get on the train outburst? Are you even reading your own words properly when you write them? And his "anger" to lee. What the hell do you consider "taking out his frustration" at this point.
Suicide this, suicide that, let's you say suicide and not sticking out when he's shown(eventually) in season 2. Still alive and kicking.
He did apologize. I've sort of confirmed it. You're talking out of your ass when you've forgotten things and are actually unsure(or don't know) about you're talking about.
It didn't seem like Kenny cared all that much about Shawn past episode 1 to me. I mean, he practically insults Lee for trying save Shawn in ep… more.3 depending on your relationship with him. "Don't worry, you made out like a hero to [Duck]" much? And I saw Kenny as using Shawn's death as an excuse to avoid the problem more than anything, which I'll get to later.
About Katjaa, if you're not going to give your wife emotional support, at least don't be a complete asshat to her while your kid is dying. And if Kenny was really a good man, I'd think he'd put aside his personal grief and denial to support his loved ones. Lee says as much in one of his dialogue options. "You feel guilty, like you took away any chance of a miracle for Duck when you ran away from Shawn Greene. But there's no room for that shit, man. This isn't about you! This is about a woman back there who needs her husband and a boy who needs his dad!"
So what about the situations where… [view original content]
I'm not going to call someone a pussy because he felt empathy for someone, it's actually a proof you're a sensible person and the world sure w… moreould be a better place if we had more people like that.
My reasoning was that since she got bit then it didn't matter because she was going to die one way or the other. Sure it is heartless to let someone suffer but if anything happened to Clementine, if got sick or a wound that needed to be disinfected and we lacked the materials needed because of that event... I just wouldn't be able to forgive myself for killing her because I felt pity at someone I didn't even know.
There wasn't any "good" choice, just 2 bad ones.
Comments
well this escalated more than I thought...
Maybe the words I used are to straight forward, but still who could trust a person like him running away and all..
Okay not everybody is the same and not everybody has courage, but Kenny had to change allot of pants after sh*tting his pants and running or backing off..
whatever play-through I played I always kept the feeling of little respect for being around Lee&Clem from beginning, but not trust worthy in most situations..
Don't forget to mention D-D-DOMINATING backstabber
I agree. Kenny is a selfish piece of trash coward and I'm almost certain the piece of trash won't be in Season 2.
And if he is on season 2, I would like a option to leave him somehow..and if not to much asked I would be pleased with that option right at the beginning..
Srry Kenny fans but that is my opinion and whatever argument you bring, this is still (mostly) a free world and own opinions
I didn't mean Kenny, I used my neighboor as an analogy for the other members of the forums, to say that they might get angry, or take it personally.
It's an old story anyway, but thought I'd clear that up
On the bright side, I believe (but I can't remember exactly, so I'm not totally sure) that Telltale said that Season 2 would have more story branching. If so, I'm sure you'll have the option to leave Kenny's ass in the dust somewhere along the line, which, frankly, I believe should have come at the end of Episode 4 in Season 1.
It didn't seem like Kenny cared all that much about Shawn past episode 1 to me. I mean, he practically insults Lee for trying save Shawn in ep.3 depending on your relationship with him. "Don't worry, you made out like a hero to [Duck]" much? And I saw Kenny as using Shawn's death as an excuse to avoid the problem more than anything, which I'll get to later.
About Katjaa, if you're not going to give your wife emotional support, at least don't be a complete asshat to her while your kid is dying. And if Kenny was really a good man, I'd think he'd put aside his personal grief and denial to support his loved ones. Lee says as much in one of his dialogue options. "You feel guilty, like you took away any chance of a miracle for Duck when you ran away from Shawn Greene. But there's no room for that shit, man. This isn't about you! This is about a woman back there who needs her husband and a boy who needs his dad!"
So what about the situations where Omid and Christa stay behind as well? They have the justification that they've known Lee for all of three days. Kenny, however, has known Clem since the apocalypse began and claims to care for her, so what reason could he have then for staying behind? And you talk as if Kenny stays behind with the boat because of his foresight and unshakeable sense of responsibility, when in reality he stays behind more so because of his grudge against Lee...
The main reason he told Lee to leave him with Ben was because he decided committing suicide was worth his time more than continuing to search for Clem. If he'd really cared about her, Kenny would've just shot Ben and went with Lee to rescue her.
I'm not trying to condone Lilly's actions, just pointing out that her situation was nothing like Kenny's and about a billion times worse than his, which is why it made sense that such similar character's went down such different paths. And while his anger towards Ben is arguably understandable, he had no reason to be a prick to Kat. The one time she tries to make him see reason ("I think Lee just wants to talk it through") he acts like an asshole to her ("It's TALKED THROUGH. Get on Kat"). And just going to point out that his anger towards Lee is not actually 'optional'; he's angry and abrasive no matter what your previous relationship is with him, though I admit his anger is understandable considering Duck's condition at the time.
Also, what does doing the hard thing have to do with being in a better situation than Lilly? And putting his money where his mouth is? Didn't the man give an impassioned speech about sticking it out for those you cared about, and then immediately stop his efforts to rescue Clem to have a party in a locked up alley with Ben and a walker horde?
And speaking of Larry, whether it was necessary or not, let's not forget that he was a completely remorseless ass to Lilly afterwards. Hell, Lee indeterminately gives a sincere apology to her even if he sides with Kenny. Kenny offers no such sympathies. A great man indeed.
And this is a bit off topic, but I really do like Kenny's character. So many ups and downs (mostly downs), so many things to love and hate about him. If nothing else, he gives us a shitton to argue about. I really hope Telltale doesn't fuck up with him next season. Either give him a good reason to be back or just make it a walker cameo.
What's interesting is that I've seen playthroughs where Kenny gives a completely different speech than the "suicide is bad" one. He instead talks about how he was a shitty husband, father, and friend and that he could've done more. No idea what determines which speech he gives though...
To be fair, Lilly saves the group in episode 3 by sniping that bandit regardless of how you treat her.
Jeez, her and Kenny really are 2 faces of the same coin.
Umm... He kinda lost his entire family...
His wife committed suicide and his son is dying and he knows it. The reason he was such a dick on the train is because he's going through the 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Episode 4 and 5 is him going through the last two stages, and trying to find something to cope, which is why he was beginning to turn to alcoholism. Not only that, but if you save Ben, he sacrifices himself so he could be there with Ben and take on his pain. He was with you from the beginning, surviving through walkers, cannibals, loss of his family, and alcoholism. Now you tell me if he is a "Selfish coward"?
5 stages of grief, first and last time I heard that was on Scrubs... God I miss that show, perfect mix of funny moments and heartbreaking ones.
On-Topic : I agree with pretty much everything, even on my 1st playthrough where I ended up being on Lilly's side (didn't really intend to though) he still ended up coming with me to save Clementine and I found that his redemption arc at the end of episode 5 washed me of all the grudges I had against him. That being said I admit he can be a real pain in the ass if you're not on his side but that's how he's supposed to be. Him and Lilly are mirrored versions of each other, be a dick to any of them and they make you pay, hard. Be nice to them and they're very loyal (well, discounting the fact Lilly still kills C/D and ditches you on the road).
I'd like to see both of them return in S2, now that Lilly has nothing to do with the comics Lilly it might be possible. And a redemption arc like Kenny had would most certainly make more people love her, because the game is kinda unfair, giving Kenny such a thing and not Lilly (I understand the reasons tho her being intended to be comics Lilly and all).
Well put, I agree. Although I ended up on Kenny's side in my first playthrough, everything else is pretty much what I think.
i didn't say any forum members were assholes though... oh well like i said, agree to disagree.
yea he's still selfish... afterall, we don't see anyone else act like he does throughout the game (leaving people to die, not wanting to save Clem for the sole reason of to spite Lee.) Pretty selfish if you ask me... as for being a coward, it depends on what episode your playing, he tends to flip flop when it comes to that.
Kenny reminds me of my dad. Mustache & all. Lmao. So, I forgave his rotten attitude towards me due to that, I think.
I hate Kenny, but for less who he is, because as a character, he's decent. I hate him because he and Lilly are the fucking same character. Yeah, I hate Lilly too. Every single aspect of their character mirrors the other one. Even Lilly killing Carley/Doug mirrors Kenny. Only Lilly was more noble in that moment. Don't get me wrong, Kenny had his moments of nobility as well, like the pharmacy in episode 1 (but holy fuck don't get me started in episode 3). If they weren't nearly identical in character arc and purpose, I'd like... hmm... I'd like them equally, honestly. However, that one detail has worsened them both in my eyes, and brought them down to a level that only Carley inhabits. I dislike them.
Kenny also tried to leave Lilly to die in the same scene.
I kind of feel about Kenny the way I do about Shane in the tv show. I thought he was a friend and then he turned into a big disappointment.
Lilly lost her entire family as well, didn't she?
And her father was murdered, unlike Katjaa and Duck who were both essentially killed by the walkers.
Forgive me for the off-topicness, but why do you dislike Carley?
Haha I think Shane ends up being way worse than Kenny
True, she lost her entire family as well. Her dad was her world and to see him bashed to death right in front of her face, no wonder she cracked.
A better question is what characters do you like?
I agree...but Kenny is more the running kind bastard and still needed to be food to a zombie-pitt of backstabbing losers
Yeah, but still, Shane and Rick had a much closer relationship than Kenny and Lee so in the context of their relationships, with Shane's betrayal being worse, I still kind of compare them together. I liked Kenny in episode one and then things just went downhill fast, just like Shane. I think thats part of the reason I got so mad at Kenny. He just makes me sad.
Literally every other character. Even Brie, to an extent.
She's boring. She immediately goes from being decently cool in episode 1, to being boring and predictable everywhere else. Half the time, I would say the line she was going to say before she would actually say it, once I understood the topic of the conversation. Aside from the time she started cussing out Lilly, that caught me off guard.
Kenny can be who you want him to be, an asshole or a friend
It's not broken, it's in classic style. Since there used to be no reddit style system on this website, there were no responses. And to make sure that there was no confusion, Telltale made all old posts like that. That thread's been around longer than I have.
Look at what I told Flog61.
I never said his actions weren't questionable (I (tried(and failed)) to save Larry), but they weren't all from selfishness: Kenny left the woman at the street (Beatrice) because he understood that he can receive more for the group that way and benefited everyone, although the way he wanted to go was unethical/immoral, he wasn't selfish; not the choice I would make, but it wasn't selfish. As for the Clem situation, its a "You scratch my back, I scratch yours" situation in addition to a play on words. You don't even have to agree with him all the way: You just need to support him during times of need. Lily was in the same boat: She was willing to do anything to survive, and Kenny soon adopted that idealism from her. In a way, Lily and Kenny flipped flopped positions by the end of Episode 2.
True, but in a way, Kenny was somewhat justified: Had Larry been dead in that meat locker (which he wasn't) they would be screwed. His actions weren't out of selfishness or cowardliness, but paranoia and fear with experience backing it up. I ended up siding with Lily through episode 2 and 3 until she left, but I can defiantly see where Kenny come's from when he makes these choices; he doesn't pull them out of his ass, he thinks. Call it Karma and what not.
You mean the woman on the street at the beginning of episode 3 ? Leaving her was the best decision, at first I was like "Oh we have to save her !!!" and then we see her get bit ...
On the other hand you get enough time to scavenge for multiple things that might just save someone in your group. That decision was a no-brainer in my opinion, as cruel as that is.
My thought on the situation is that we are human. What makes a human different from an animal is our morals; it's not about survival, it's about right and wrong. I don't want the walker world to take my humanity away, turning me into a careless animal. I couldn't watch, or even hear someone being bitten again and again until she is so wounded that she can't get away, then being eaten alive. I keep thinking of an apple when I left her on my second playthrough: bite after bite taken from her flesh until nothing remained. I had nightmares (Yeah, I said it! Call me a p*ssy!) about me being in her shoes, and it was terrible.
Well... They were always in the same position to begin with. Just arguing asshole A, and arguing asshole B. Then, there was just B, and hopefully now, A and B are gone forever.
I'm not going to call someone a pussy because he felt empathy for someone, it's actually a proof you're a sensible person and the world sure would be a better place if we had more people like that.
My reasoning was that since she got bit then it didn't matter because she was going to die one way or the other. Sure it is heartless to let someone suffer but if anything happened to Clementine, if got sick or a wound that needed to be disinfected and we lacked the materials needed because of that event... I just wouldn't be able to forgive myself for killing her because I felt pity at someone I didn't even know.
There wasn't any "good" choice, just 2 bad ones.
Well in my eyes, anything is better than turning. It was good when Lee kills her.
I always saw that as a "I'm not going to wait around while crazed, drug addicted, rape happy murderers and rotting, undead corpses are both swarming through the walls just to save ONE person." I don't think he would have held the door shut had Lilly come to her senses earlier than she did, but he wouldn't have waited around for her if she'd kept shooting. I mean, even LEE says "Lilly, last chance!" before she snaps out of it.
But Merak and Byakuren are right, Kenny and Lilly really ARE very similar. It's too bad that he two of them never realized it.
He didn't insult Lee's action, rather he was sad about the way duck blamed himself. And excuse?! Lee was the one who brought it up. And how the hell is it an excuse to continue moving the train, if the mere mention of it makes him stop the train?
He wasn't an ass to her. and nobody simply puts away his personal grief just like that or flicks the anti-grief switch or whatever shit you believe. Kenny was more attached to duck than even Katcha as well. Now his keeping the train moving was still wrong and his viewpoint back then on duck's fate as well and lee's statement was on the spot. But negative character trait or stupider, assholeness? sure as hell not.
It's not about the grudge, if it was, kenny wouldn't say he'd still wait for lee by the boat even with lee bit. And he didn't straight up say no. He gave lee a chance to give a reason, and if lee says the magic word. "family". Simply reminding kenny of what's important, then kenny comes.
Plus, there's no true knowledge that Clementine was taken by vernon's group(and it turned out she wasn't anyway)
Kenny during the moment of rush was incorrect about what was best for clem, well shiiit, what an asshole, right?
a billion times worse? While kenny was slowly sinking into the depressing reality of having to accept duck's death when allofasudden katjaa suicides outta nowhere, no preparation for that, and still right after having to kill duck.(or watch duck die). And again, how the hell was he a prick to katjaa? Based on his this discussion is over, get on the train outburst? Are you even reading your own words properly when you write them? And his "anger" to lee. What the hell do you consider "taking out his frustration" at this point.
Suicide this, suicide that, let's you say suicide and not sticking out when he's shown(eventually) in season 2. Still alive and kicking.
He did apologize. I've sort of confirmed it. You're talking out of your ass when you've forgotten things and are actually unsure(or don't know) about you're talking about.