Actually, considering the situation, leaving keys inside the car/RV/whatever-you-use-to-move is a good idea.
In case of a walker attack or anything someone just has to rush, start the engine and roll out. What happens if you don't do that ? Eddie/Wyatt scenario. The last thing I'd want is a "so, who's got the keys ?" scenario or one of those cliché horror movie clip where someone repeatedly lets they keys fall/trouble to put them in, like Lee did S1 with the police officer.
If it were me I'd always leave the keys in the car, unless I don't plan on coming back to it in the same day.
For my very first playthrough I decided to go the "white-knight-in-shining-armor" way.
I saved Duck (thought I would then just turn on the tractor and move it out of the way, welp, wrong)
Gave Clem/Duck/Kenny/Lilly food (Kids are obvious, Kenny does runs with me and Lilly protects the main base, need energy).
Tried to save Larry
Sided with Kenny about leaving the Motel.
Shot the girl at the drugstore
Wanted to leave with Lilly in the RV
What has this brought me ? Lilly still kills Carley and ditches all of us on the road, leaving the entire group without any means to escape in case walkers attack, but I didn't blame her that much after I realised the train could be used. Of course by that time Kenny kinda don't like me, still, when I said Clementine was my family he came with me. On the rooftop of the hospital he thanked me for always helping Katjaa and Duck (revealing that Katjaa continuously told him Lee was a good guy), he then proceeds to selflessly put Ben out of his misery/save Christa.
On my second playthrough I was in the "this isn't a game" mindset and when it came to the Larry situation I had no hesitation whatsoever as to what should be done. It's easy when you think "Doesn't matter, if this goes wrong I'll just have to reload my save", but if it was real ? Man, there's no way in hell I'm risking Clementine's life like that. Considering at this point Lee&Kenny were so starved that they could pass out at any moment (like Kenny says during his travel to the dairy), There is simply no way they could put Larry down, that weakling Travis would've killed Lee if the others didn't intervene, so Larry ? yeah right... The girl at the drugstore, as sad as it is to say, was alreayd bitten. As soon as I saw her get bit, I thought the same thing as Kenny, leave her. That allowed us to get medicine that might just save Clem's life if she got sick, no regrets.
After that, even though you have his back all the time Kenny is harsh on everyone, I didn't mind, his entire family died a day before... Then when it came down to it he gave me that speech and followed me to hell.
That's my thought on the matter, though I don't particularly hate Lilly or anything. I just think that Kenny completely and utterly characterized what the "normal" reaction would be if it was real. Like I said, it's easy to try to go the white knight way because we can just shrug off the bad consequences and reload our saves in case it was the wrong choice, but if we couldn't ?
EDIT: one thing to add. if you don't side with Lilly/Kenny there is a scene where either of them leaves you in a dangerous situation. Let's compare them:
if you don't side with Kenny he leaves you at the drugstore door. As much of a dick move as it is, it's understandable. there are like 2 or 3 walkers on the door, he might get his hand/arm bitten trying to help Lee.
if you don't side with Lilly, she lets Andy St John zap your face on the fence. The thing is, she has a gun, and helping Lee wouldn't put ANY danger upon her, unlike Kenny, she just WANTS you to die, while Kenny arguably is just afraid for his life.
One thing I regret in the game is that it's actually quite comfortable to remain the moral guy who doesn't gets his hands too dirty and refuses to steal from people and such.
Only consequences you face are approval or disapproval from other characters. But it doesn't always feel like such a big deal.
Nobody dies of starvation if you refuse to take food from the car.
No St John brother returns to kill a member of your group if you spared those guys.
If you shoot the girl in the street, you have less time to pick stuff in the pharmacy, but if you're fast you can collect a satisfying amount of stuff, not that bad after all. You should have not been able to take any (or virtually no stuff), to make you feel bad about it.
I wish it was way more challenging to remain a good person, and that some good actions come back at you with harsh consequences and make you regret you valued your conscience and moral comfort before considering sheer survival and cruel 'laws of the jungle' that apply normally in a ZA.
For my very first playthrough I decided to go the "white-knight-in-shining-armor" way.
* I saved Duck (thought I would then just turn on … morethe tractor and move it out of the way, welp, wrong)
* Gave Clem/Duck/Kenny/Lilly food (Kids are obvious, Kenny does runs with me and Lilly protects the main base, need energy).
* Tried to save Larry
* Sided with Kenny about leaving the Motel.
* Shot the girl at the drugstore
* Wanted to leave with Lilly in the RV
What has this brought me ? Lilly still kills Carley and ditches all of us on the road, leaving the entire group without any means to escape in case walkers attack, but I didn't blame her that much after I realised the train could be used. Of course by that time Kenny kinda don't like me, still, when I said Clementine was my family he came with me. On the rooftop of the hospital he thanked me for always helping Katjaa and Duck (revealing that Katjaa continuously told him Lee was a good guy… [view original content]
No, they didn't change the character. The achievement when she left was originally called "Woodbury Bound". So that fact that she was no longer supposed to be Lilly from the comics came after she appeared in the game.
This I really agree with. Its sucks that moral people just got to coast along with no consequences, and this comes from someone who made several moral choices.
I wouldnt have minded if Ben ended screwing up again badly and made a scene harder if I saved Ben for example. Then it would be a good tie off between being moral and staying alive. that said this really is just brigning back the old choices debate. Being moral could have had some advantages too though I flt we saw that with the reactions we got from people
One thing I regret in the game is that it's actually quite comfortable to remain the moral guy who doesn't gets his hands too dirty and refuse… mores to steal from people and such.
Only consequences you face are approval or disapproval from other characters. But it doesn't always feel like such a big deal.
Nobody dies of starvation if you refuse to take food from the car.
No St John brother returns to kill a member of your group if you spared those guys.
If you shoot the girl in the street, you have less time to pick stuff in the pharmacy, but if you're fast you can collect a satisfying amount of stuff, not that bad after all. You should have not been able to take any (or virtually no stuff), to make you feel bad about it.
I wish it was way more challenging to remain a good person, and that some good actions come back at you with harsh consequences and make you regret you valued your conscience and moral comfort before considering sheer survival and cruel 'laws of the jungle' that apply normally in a ZA.
For my very first playthrough I decided to go the "white-knight-in-shining-armor" way.
* I saved Duck (thought I would then just turn on … morethe tractor and move it out of the way, welp, wrong)
* Gave Clem/Duck/Kenny/Lilly food (Kids are obvious, Kenny does runs with me and Lilly protects the main base, need energy).
* Tried to save Larry
* Sided with Kenny about leaving the Motel.
* Shot the girl at the drugstore
* Wanted to leave with Lilly in the RV
What has this brought me ? Lilly still kills Carley and ditches all of us on the road, leaving the entire group without any means to escape in case walkers attack, but I didn't blame her that much after I realised the train could be used. Of course by that time Kenny kinda don't like me, still, when I said Clementine was my family he came with me. On the rooftop of the hospital he thanked me for always helping Katjaa and Duck (revealing that Katjaa continuously told him Lee was a good guy… [view original content]
I'm sorry but, did I even mention you in my comment ? You seem like you took it personally for some reasons, I apologize if I've been rude anyway, never meant to target anyone.
But, that's easy to say because it's not happening. Let's be real, how easy is it to distribute food to everyone other than Lee because we can have a sandwich done in 2 minutes ourselves if need be ? I could bet my arm that barely more than 3% of the players fed themselves at that part even though in the game Lee probably went on for DAYS without anything. In today's World, most people don't even have an idea of what being really starved is (I wish no one would), the characters in the game on the other hand do, because that's the situation they're in.
Same for the food in the car, it's easy to go "white-knighting" because we're not starved like the characters in the game supposedly are. I'm not saying picking moral choices is bad.... I'm saying Kenny represents the most realistic and down to earth choices one would, and probably should, make in such an environment most of the time.
I didn't reload my saves...
I didn't "whiteknight" it, I did what I thought was the right thing and what I would want to do if it was real.
I've said this before, but if the ZA was real, I would (try to) hold morals over survival.
I adored the game and fully encourage all discussion on all events and characters
On Kenny sided with Kenny on most occasions felt he was angry person but heart was always in right place everything he did was for protection of his family and when he died saving Ben in my walkthrough ill always remember him as a hero
Lily was someone for me who was selfish who felt better then everyones else with no sympathy who showed no one respect to anyone yet expected complete submission to her commands for me thoughts ended about her being a murderer(let her back in) tricked me again
Most hated character was Ben stuck by him thorough and even saved his life yet everytime i trusted him he betrayed me and ended the game being died taking kenny with him being nothing but failure in my eyes
My most loved is clementine from first time i met her my mission was to protect her in any means necessary and teach her good morals which made me not steal and not kill two brothers and tell her never ok to kill in the game she felt like a ray of sunshine in dark bleak world so any parts she was in danger broke my heart ending nearly destroyed me
Weeeeell....Boy, I feel like I could write an essay about the psyches (said essay would probably suck conidering I am an awful writer), but I'm gonna try real hard to sum it up:
First, during and before the game, both Lilly and Kenny went through different sittuations, and they are totally different persons, so they wouldn't react the same to a certain situation. In the begining, Lilly has only her father, the wild guess being her mother's been dead for a long time, she's leading a team formed by people she doesn't know, Before that, she was in the USAF if i'm not mistaken, so she formed a tough character (though this may have started from before, considering his father was an ass and that probably got her into a lot of trouble before) and was acustomed to treating people distantly and even with hostility, because of the douches she dealt with on a regular basis, and was also very calculating and strict.
Kenny had his whole family, which meant he had more people to rely on, but it also means he feels he must asume the role of a responsible leader and always prioritize the needs of Katjaa and Duck. He feels he's got a lot more to lose than the rest. At the start of the game, he is at Hershell's, relatively away from the whole zombie incident. Then the walkers attack both Shawn and Duck, this is one of the first stressful encounters Kenny's had with the zombies, thus, he panicks and can only think about taking his son to safety, Shawn dies, and Hershel kicks 'em out. This apparently had a greater impact on Duck than it had on him.
Then the two groups meet.
From then on, The two characters start changing and morphing due to the extreme conditions and of course, interacting. One great similarity is that they're both increasingly insecure. Lilly is insecure about her position and ability as the leader. Later on, combined with other elements, that leads her to become extremely paranoid and, generally speaking, a nervous wreck. Kenny has insecurities about whether his goals are the same as those of his companions and if the others can ensure the safety of his family, that causes him to eventually become very distant and aggresive towards those he considers a possible obstacle in his plans or a downright threat, he becomes unfair in his judging and sort of a hypocrite.
I should probably cut it now cause I already wrote too much for one day, but Keny and Lilly are two very complex characters that are worth the analysis. I kinda had a lot more to say but, it's kind of a drag.
Good shout never thought about it like that please drag on good points thats why love this game everyone see the circumstances and the decisions differently love the intelligence of this game
Weeeeell....Boy, I feel like I could write an essay about the psyches (said essay would probably suck conidering I am an awful writer), but I'… morem gonna try real hard to sum it up:
First, during and before the game, both Lilly and Kenny went through different sittuations, and they are totally different persons, so they wouldn't react the same to a certain situation. In the begining, Lilly has only her father, the wild guess being her mother's been dead for a long time, she's leading a team formed by people she doesn't know, Before that, she was in the USAF if i'm not mistaken, so she formed a tough character (though this may have started from before, considering his father was an ass and that probably got her into a lot of trouble before) and was acustomed to treating people distantly and even with hostility, because of the douches she dealt with on a regular basis, and was also very calculating and strict.
Kenny had his whole family, which me… [view original content]
I think Kenny tries to hold onto his humanity much more than Lilly does, or even Christa for that matter(I don't think Omid grasps the situations fully a lot of the time ). From what I saw, Lilly was a much more pragmatic character than Kenny, but that may just be my view on him. Really, in terms of losing his humanity, even at his worse, Kenny isn't worse than Rick from the comics(Rick is a very dark, pragmatic character in the comics).
That's just my view anyway, I always thought of Kenny as a good man who was flawed in many ways, who later in the game was drowning in grief, and ultimately, was Lee's best friend. All lot of the time, it seems like it's just them two against the world, and if you didn't support him, or didn't try to understand him, then I guess it's a strained relationship. For me, it seems like Kenny considered both Lee and Clem to be the only family he had left after Katjaa and Duck died.
Still, I couldn't do that. It's Kenny's attitude later that annoys me. There were a lot of times when I wondered if he had much humanity left … moreexcept when it came to his family. Sure, he cares for Clementine maybe as much as Lee does, but everyone else gets the cold shoulder. And in Episode 2, when Lee, Kenny and Mark brought back Ben and Travis/Mr Parker, Lilly did have a fair point: they can't provide for every struggling survivor. Both of them are just at each others throat so much it's almost annoying.
I totally agree, although I kind of did hate Lilly a bit more than you probably because throughout the entire game, I still never forgot how she treated Lee and the group when they first meet.
For my very first playthrough I decided to go the "white-knight-in-shining-armor" way.
* I saved Duck (thought I would then just turn on … morethe tractor and move it out of the way, welp, wrong)
* Gave Clem/Duck/Kenny/Lilly food (Kids are obvious, Kenny does runs with me and Lilly protects the main base, need energy).
* Tried to save Larry
* Sided with Kenny about leaving the Motel.
* Shot the girl at the drugstore
* Wanted to leave with Lilly in the RV
What has this brought me ? Lilly still kills Carley and ditches all of us on the road, leaving the entire group without any means to escape in case walkers attack, but I didn't blame her that much after I realised the train could be used. Of course by that time Kenny kinda don't like me, still, when I said Clementine was my family he came with me. On the rooftop of the hospital he thanked me for always helping Katjaa and Duck (revealing that Katjaa continuously told him Lee was a good guy… [view original content]
Glad you liked it! Y'know, if you guys don't have any objection, I s'pose I could expand a little (the efect of Ben's arrival in the group, Larry's tragic death, etc)
Good shout never thought about it like that please drag on good points thats why love this game everyone see the circumstances and the decisions differently love the intelligence of this game
Glad you liked it! Y'know, if you guys don't have any objection, I s'pose I could expand a little (the efect of Ben's arrival in the group, Larry's tragic death, etc)
Lilly and Kenny are more or less the same character. Both cared for their families and tried to take care of the group. I hated Kenny for his occasional hot headedness, his stupid boat plan and that he didn't care for Lee if you didn't side with him when killing Larry. I hated Lilly for losing it and killing Carley/Doug, it would have been interesting to see what would have happen if she went with us to Crawford. Both characters cared for the group most of the time, but in the end I preferred Lilly.
Glad you liked it! Y'know, if you guys don't have any objection, I s'pose I could expand a little (the efect of Ben's arrival in the group, Larry's tragic death, etc)
Comments
Actually, considering the situation, leaving keys inside the car/RV/whatever-you-use-to-move is a good idea.
In case of a walker attack or anything someone just has to rush, start the engine and roll out. What happens if you don't do that ? Eddie/Wyatt scenario. The last thing I'd want is a "so, who's got the keys ?" scenario or one of those cliché horror movie clip where someone repeatedly lets they keys fall/trouble to put them in, like Lee did S1 with the police officer.
If it were me I'd always leave the keys in the car, unless I don't plan on coming back to it in the same day.
For my very first playthrough I decided to go the "white-knight-in-shining-armor" way.
What has this brought me ? Lilly still kills Carley and ditches all of us on the road, leaving the entire group without any means to escape in case walkers attack, but I didn't blame her that much after I realised the train could be used. Of course by that time Kenny kinda don't like me, still, when I said Clementine was my family he came with me. On the rooftop of the hospital he thanked me for always helping Katjaa and Duck (revealing that Katjaa continuously told him Lee was a good guy), he then proceeds to selflessly put Ben out of his misery/save Christa.
On my second playthrough I was in the "this isn't a game" mindset and when it came to the Larry situation I had no hesitation whatsoever as to what should be done. It's easy when you think "Doesn't matter, if this goes wrong I'll just have to reload my save", but if it was real ? Man, there's no way in hell I'm risking Clementine's life like that. Considering at this point Lee&Kenny were so starved that they could pass out at any moment (like Kenny says during his travel to the dairy), There is simply no way they could put Larry down, that weakling Travis would've killed Lee if the others didn't intervene, so Larry ? yeah right... The girl at the drugstore, as sad as it is to say, was alreayd bitten. As soon as I saw her get bit, I thought the same thing as Kenny, leave her. That allowed us to get medicine that might just save Clem's life if she got sick, no regrets.
After that, even though you have his back all the time Kenny is harsh on everyone, I didn't mind, his entire family died a day before... Then when it came down to it he gave me that speech and followed me to hell.
That's my thought on the matter, though I don't particularly hate Lilly or anything. I just think that Kenny completely and utterly characterized what the "normal" reaction would be if it was real. Like I said, it's easy to try to go the white knight way because we can just shrug off the bad consequences and reload our saves in case it was the wrong choice, but if we couldn't ?
EDIT: one thing to add. if you don't side with Lilly/Kenny there is a scene where either of them leaves you in a dangerous situation. Let's compare them:
That's another thing.
One thing I regret in the game is that it's actually quite comfortable to remain the moral guy who doesn't gets his hands too dirty and refuses to steal from people and such.
Only consequences you face are approval or disapproval from other characters. But it doesn't always feel like such a big deal.
Nobody dies of starvation if you refuse to take food from the car.
No St John brother returns to kill a member of your group if you spared those guys.
If you shoot the girl in the street, you have less time to pick stuff in the pharmacy, but if you're fast you can collect a satisfying amount of stuff, not that bad after all. You should have not been able to take any (or virtually no stuff), to make you feel bad about it.
I wish it was way more challenging to remain a good person, and that some good actions come back at you with harsh consequences and make you regret you valued your conscience and moral comfort before considering sheer survival and cruel 'laws of the jungle' that apply normally in a ZA.
I don't think I implied anything of the sort.
oh i thought that it was changed mid-production. Yeah I have no clue
This I really agree with. Its sucks that moral people just got to coast along with no consequences, and this comes from someone who made several moral choices.
I wouldnt have minded if Ben ended screwing up again badly and made a scene harder if I saved Ben for example. Then it would be a good tie off between being moral and staying alive. that said this really is just brigning back the old choices debate. Being moral could have had some advantages too though I flt we saw that with the reactions we got from people
I didn't reload my saves...
I didn't "whiteknight" it, I did what I thought was the right thing and what I would want to do if it was real.
I've said this before, but if the ZA was real, I would (try to) hold morals over survival.
I'm sorry but, did I even mention you in my comment ? You seem like you took it personally for some reasons, I apologize if I've been rude anyway, never meant to target anyone.
But, that's easy to say because it's not happening. Let's be real, how easy is it to distribute food to everyone other than Lee because we can have a sandwich done in 2 minutes ourselves if need be ? I could bet my arm that barely more than 3% of the players fed themselves at that part even though in the game Lee probably went on for DAYS without anything. In today's World, most people don't even have an idea of what being really starved is (I wish no one would), the characters in the game on the other hand do, because that's the situation they're in.
Same for the food in the car, it's easy to go "white-knighting" because we're not starved like the characters in the game supposedly are. I'm not saying picking moral choices is bad.... I'm saying Kenny represents the most realistic and down to earth choices one would, and probably should, make in such an environment most of the time.
If you were starving and came across the station wagon you would take the food,anyone saying otherwise is merely fooling themselves
I adored the game and fully encourage all discussion on all events and characters
On Kenny sided with Kenny on most occasions felt he was angry person but heart was always in right place everything he did was for protection of his family and when he died saving Ben in my walkthrough ill always remember him as a hero
Lily was someone for me who was selfish who felt better then everyones else with no sympathy who showed no one respect to anyone yet expected complete submission to her commands for me thoughts ended about her being a murderer(let her back in) tricked me again
Most hated character was Ben stuck by him thorough and even saved his life yet everytime i trusted him he betrayed me and ended the game being died taking kenny with him being nothing but failure in my eyes
My most loved is clementine from first time i met her my mission was to protect her in any means necessary and teach her good morals which made me not steal and not kill two brothers and tell her never ok to kill in the game she felt like a ray of sunshine in dark bleak world so any parts she was in danger broke my heart ending nearly destroyed me
Weeeeell....Boy, I feel like I could write an essay about the psyches (said essay would probably suck conidering I am an awful writer), but I'm gonna try real hard to sum it up:
First, during and before the game, both Lilly and Kenny went through different sittuations, and they are totally different persons, so they wouldn't react the same to a certain situation. In the begining, Lilly has only her father, the wild guess being her mother's been dead for a long time, she's leading a team formed by people she doesn't know, Before that, she was in the USAF if i'm not mistaken, so she formed a tough character (though this may have started from before, considering his father was an ass and that probably got her into a lot of trouble before) and was acustomed to treating people distantly and even with hostility, because of the douches she dealt with on a regular basis, and was also very calculating and strict.
Kenny had his whole family, which meant he had more people to rely on, but it also means he feels he must asume the role of a responsible leader and always prioritize the needs of Katjaa and Duck. He feels he's got a lot more to lose than the rest. At the start of the game, he is at Hershell's, relatively away from the whole zombie incident. Then the walkers attack both Shawn and Duck, this is one of the first stressful encounters Kenny's had with the zombies, thus, he panicks and can only think about taking his son to safety, Shawn dies, and Hershel kicks 'em out. This apparently had a greater impact on Duck than it had on him.
Then the two groups meet.
From then on, The two characters start changing and morphing due to the extreme conditions and of course, interacting. One great similarity is that they're both increasingly insecure. Lilly is insecure about her position and ability as the leader. Later on, combined with other elements, that leads her to become extremely paranoid and, generally speaking, a nervous wreck. Kenny has insecurities about whether his goals are the same as those of his companions and if the others can ensure the safety of his family, that causes him to eventually become very distant and aggresive towards those he considers a possible obstacle in his plans or a downright threat, he becomes unfair in his judging and sort of a hypocrite.
I should probably cut it now cause I already wrote too much for one day, but Keny and Lilly are two very complex characters that are worth the analysis. I kinda had a lot more to say but, it's kind of a drag.
Good shout never thought about it like that please drag on good points thats why love this game everyone see the circumstances and the decisions differently love the intelligence of this game
I think Kenny tries to hold onto his humanity much more than Lilly does, or even Christa for that matter(I don't think Omid grasps the situations fully a lot of the time
). From what I saw, Lilly was a much more pragmatic character than Kenny, but that may just be my view on him. Really, in terms of losing his humanity, even at his worse, Kenny isn't worse than Rick from the comics(Rick is a very dark, pragmatic character in the comics).
That's just my view anyway, I always thought of Kenny as a good man who was flawed in many ways, who later in the game was drowning in grief, and ultimately, was Lee's best friend. All lot of the time, it seems like it's just them two against the world, and if you didn't support him, or didn't try to understand him, then I guess it's a strained relationship. For me, it seems like Kenny considered both Lee and Clem to be the only family he had left after Katjaa and Duck died.
I totally agree, although I kind of did hate Lilly a bit more than you probably because throughout the entire game, I still never forgot how she treated Lee and the group when they first meet.
Nah I just think it would be a cop out for such a cliffhanger of a preview to end up being some new character.
Glad you liked it! Y'know, if you guys don't have any objection, I s'pose I could expand a little (the efect of Ben's arrival in the group, Larry's tragic death, etc)
lol should i could read about walking dead day find real interesting to see how other people analyse and experience the game
Lilly and Kenny are more or less the same character. Both cared for their families and tried to take care of the group. I hated Kenny for his occasional hot headedness, his stupid boat plan and that he didn't care for Lee if you didn't side with him when killing Larry. I hated Lilly for losing it and killing Carley/Doug, it would have been interesting to see what would have happen if she went with us to Crawford. Both characters cared for the group most of the time, but in the end I preferred Lilly.
i'm surprised this thread didn't die yet
my molly one did
cries in the corner about molly
I certainly don't have any objection. That was well put together, and I'm up for reading more.
Aw, don't be sad, I liked Molly too and hey, look at the bright side. Maybe you can try again next year?
Well, then, I guess here goes part two, I'm just gonna skip Ben for now, but he's gonna be important for noth Kenny and Lilly later, maybe
nope i'll try again after episode 2