The problem with The Walking Dead's "outer monologues"
If this has been discussed before, I apologize. Still pretty new to these boards.
So if you've played The Walking Dead at all you've experienced what I've starting calling the "outer monologues." These are moments in the game where a character says what they are thinking out loud to no one in particular. For example, at the beginning of All That Remains, Clementine says "guess it's time to get cleaned up" very clearly and directly to...no one.
Of course, what's really happening here is not the characters talking to themselves, but the game is talking to the players. Helping set the stage of what's happening, explaining to players that the object they just looked at is irrelevant and to not pay attention to it, etc. Sometimes these moments even allow for some meta-gaming humor, which I can always appreciate.
In "All That Remains," however, the outer monologuing is used in the worst way possible. I am of course talking about the bathroom scene. In this scene, Rebecca walks into the bathroom, splashes some water on her face, and proceeds to confess her deepest darkest secret out loud in a clear concise manner to absolutely no one. And then she leaves.
The reason this is a giant problem is that Clementine overhears this and you can later taunt Rebecca about it. This is REALLY sloppy writing. No one outer monologues like that in real life, at best we quietly mutter to ourselves on occasion or yell a curse word. The bathroom scene becomes nothing more than a super unrealistic plot device that has a potentially giant effect on the relationship between multiple characters in the story. They could have just included an optional stealth sequence where you overhear Rebecca talking to another character.
I've yet to see anyone else talk about this? Did it bother anyone else? I'm worried this is a crutch that will continue to be used, and that would be a real shame.
Comments
Mate, you want to say you never talked to yourself loudly?
Have I ever said "oh my god" or "what the fuck" out loud to myself? Sure. Have I ever stood around carrying on to myself about my deep dark secrets? No, I really haven't.
Talking out fears and dillemas is a coping mechanism often displayed in people with mental problems or people under extreme stress.
That's fair, but out loud to themselves? Talk therapy isn't done by yourself. I've been in situations of extreme stress and my mind does race, but I talk to myself in my own head. Everyone has an inner monologue, that's for sure. Or they choose someone they trust and talk to them about it. That's why I think overhearing it in a conversation would have made a lot more sense.
Yes, some people do that. Sometimes they don't even realize they are talking out loud. We all have different ways of coping with problems and traumas, you can't just assume something is impossible because you wouldn't act that way.
Yes out loud to themselves. When I was a kid my father did it a lot, to the point I needed some answers so I spent some time surfing the vast interwebs where I learned the above inormation. I would link some sites but I am posting through my 360 at the moment. Talk therapy and talking to yourself are very different even though their principals are fairly similiar. Each person handles stress differently and, no offence, I doubt you were as stressed as a woman about to give birth to a baby that may or may not be her partners, during the ZA, with few medical supplies and with a bad man (Carven) out and about looking for her. Who can you trust more than yourself? I do agree that it seemed oddly out of place, though.
Elementary psychology friend. :-)
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/07/talking-to-yourself-a-sign-of-sanity/
I never said it was impossible, but I've never seen it or heard it. Again, muttering to yourself in sort of incomplete phrases? That makes sense. I've caught myself doing that on occasion when my mind was racing.
But to clearly vocalize your thoughts in complete sentences as if someone else was listening to you like Rebecca did? That's a cop-out in writing the episode. Someone would have to show me video/audio of that before I'd believe anyone would do that.
Cop-out perhaps, but it is logical.
All I'll say is that as a 4 year psychology major about to graduate with a bachelor of science, I have never once heard of any of that as "elementary psychology."
But let's assume that website has legitimate information. It's still not what was happening with Rebecca. She wasn't planning anything or talking herself through a decision or motivating herself or anything like that. She was vocalizing a feeling. In a surprisingly clear and detailed manner.
Honestly, the only way it makes sense to me is if we say she was praying.
I really don't see the big fuss about this. Sure, it was VERY convenient for Rebecca to talk to herself right there and then, that's about it. I'm pretty sure everyone talks to themselves once in a while.
That's the thing though. One of the reasons I love The Walking Dead so much is, as far as I can remember, there has never been a moment in the writing where something "very convenient" happened to the point where it took away from the immersion of the story.
Viva-La-Lee has made some good points. Maybe people do converse with themselves from time to time if they're really stressed. But the way it was presented in the game just felt like it was a total crutch to give Clementine some dirt on this character whom already seemed unlikeable. So in that way I was really disappointed.
I talk to myself all the time like that.
When people are nervous, or depressed they usually talk to themselves. When they are alone and make some plans or think about somethings they also ''think loud''. It is also common to see small children do that, especially when they get at the age of 7 and beyond, because prior to that they cannot do that. They must develop that higher level of cognitive thinking. Adults act the same, and no... it is not a sign of madness, scientifically confirmed by psychologists. Read a little more about psychology, friendly advice. Start with wikipedia to get some general info, and if you are interested more, then get some books about it.
I was hoping this topic would be about when we and Lee/Clementine look at something and talk out loud for no reason.
Why not? People can also vocalize their feelings as well. If you are 4 year psychology major about to graduate, then simply read it in some books you obviously know better than me which ones, or simply talk on the subject with some of your fellow colleges, with someone who knows more about it. All in all I didn't see anything strange in characters talking to themselves.
Yeah,me too.
I agree. But still, let's put ourselves in her shoes: it's the ZA. most likely her friends(excluding the people at the cabin) and her family are dead, she is about to give birth, not to mention there is a chance the baby is not Alvin's, she has no one to talk to about it especially in that situation. So maybe that was her way of blowing off steam? Again, it's not that much of a big deal.
Okay.I talk to myself all the time.ALL the time.When I think I'm alone AND when I am with other people.And yes,when I am aware that there are no people around,I do confess to myself,mostly to clear my mind and realize what I am really feeling,what I should do.It's just a thing some people do.My friends always taunt me about it,like I'm forever-alone even when I'm with other people.The truth is,sometimes I feel their presence and sometimes I don't.It is just a way to relieve yourself of stress,like the others above said,or make out your own feelings and ideas.I usually think out loud,because it seems more true than when I practice inner monologuing.It is like there is an invisible person you can talk to,that is always there and helps you think things through.I am also a silent person when I want to be,but that is mostly caused to my bipolarity.But,without further ado,yes.It is convenient that Rebecca confessed to herself her darkest secret in the bathroom,but it is,all the same,not impossible.
Alright. It seems like I was wrong about how common it is for people to do that. Every day's a school day.
But I'm not going to relent on how bad I think it is for the story. By having characters confess such important plot points out loud where Clementine can hear them is just a super easy way to move the story forward without having any real development or dialogue. And since they've already relied really heavily on outer monologues before All That Remains, it just makes me nervous that they're going to start relying on cheaper storytelling.
I thought she was praying? The invocation "please, let it be..." sounds like she's asking it of someone. I don't know if that's realistic, but don't some people pray out loud like that?
Some outer monologues are the characters expressing what they are thinking like how you mentioned Clementine talking to herself in the bathroom, In the real world she wouldn't say those things out loud to herself but she would think them in her head.
As most people aren't mind readers it can be usefull to the story.
Also Rebecca talking out aloud to herself doesn't seem that unusual as she has noone to offload her worries to apart from herself in the mirror and it could be the only way she can cope with the situation with the baby.
Uhhh, yes, yes they do.
No one outer monologues like the protagonist does, but when stressed people talk to themselves while alone all the damn time.
Congrats on your B.Sc.!
I was being a wee bit sarcastic on the "elementary bit". Let me explain:
We had a 3 week course done by a professor of Psychology from UCL about it at work. Specifically, human behaviour. (recognising whether an individual is a threat or not.)
An individual who is under a lot of stress (a pregnancy for example, as is the case with Rebecca) can find the sound of their own voice reassuring. ( I'm no expert, I admit that. Maybe your lecturer will be able to confirm OR refute what I'm saying.)
I talk to myself all the time (the only way to have intelligent conversation) so I didn't see it as too out of place. What really got me though? Clem talking to herself in the bathroom at the beginning. It was weird for me because it had always been Lee who did that. I guess he passed on more than just survival skills.
You are so right.
Poetry teach: "Show, don't tell".
I see no problem with Rebecca talking about her secret to herself. When you are alone in a Lurker World and there is nobody you can trust, talking to yourself and assuring yourself everything will be OK helps ease stress to an extent, Hell, I do that all the time.
As for any other times, it's just to keep the scene from having awkward silence.
This is a dumb thread, I'm sorry, Hell I'm not afraid to admit it, I talk to myself sometimes. I don't see a problem with it.
lol but I did like how when Clem looks at something she just stays silent. Instead of being like Lee and saying "That could be useful" or "Hmph" lol
I'll admit it. I tend to talk to myself like this. Now, I've never looked in the mirror and said, "Alright, time to brush my teeth." But problems, things I'm stressed about, etc ... yeah, I tend to say what I'm thinking out loud to myself.
I don't think I'll ever get used to Clem talking to herself, though. That seemed like just such a Lee thing, making comments to himself about every little thing he discovered in his path.
Well they only did it a few times, not nearly as much as Lee.
.... I talk to myself a lot. Plus these people are traumatised people in a apocalyptic setting neurotic behaviour would be more commen
I would say that Rebecca's outer monologue scene is not only regular human behaviour, but it's organic and believable within the context of that moment in the episode.
Rebecca is obviously far along in her pregnancy, and had just left a group conversation about Carver, (who, by my estimation, is the most likely candidate for being the father). Therefore, the topic is almost certainly at the forefront of her mind during that visit to the bathroom.
Secondly, Rebecca has very little opportunity to focus on her private problems. If she isn't around other members of the group she's sleeping next to Alvin, and when she's outside all of her attention goes toward looking out for Walkers. The bathroom is the only place she won't be interrupted or overheard if she needs a moment to vocalize her stress.
And as has already been stated, talking to one's self is pretty normal. I've been known to wake up grumpy and sleep-deprived and mutter something like, "Ugh, don't want to deal with this daaayy..." as I take a shower. Not really a deep, dark secret, but it's more than just cussing.
The only time I've considered Telltale's writing sloppy was the introduction of Mark in S1E2. He's introduced and done away with that episode, has little personality apart from being affable and agreeing with everything Lee says, and all in all he's essentially a walking, talking quick-use plot device.
Oh, and lastly, outer monologues have contributed to some of the game's best moments!
"I'd fill that teacup with some bourbon if I could!"
How do you "show" an illegitimate pregnancy?
As a 4 year psych major, you should be pretty aware of the various weird coping strategies people have when dealing with stress. This is nothing. As many others have stated, people talk to themselves all the time, even when they're not about to deliver a potential proof of a marital infidelity in the middle of an apocalypse.
What Rebecca said wasn't even that clear or detailed. "Let it be his." That's it. Four words. The first time I heard it, I didn't even know that she was even talking about Alvin because I hadn't looked into their window and saw them arguing. If she had said "Oh I hope this child that I am carrying is Alvin's and not the other man whom I slept with," you'd have something. "Let it be his" doesn't strike me as being that weird of a thing to say.
I don't see anything wrong with rebbecca having an "outer monologue" Hell sometimes I look in the mirror and ask myself out loud what am I doing with my life so no big deal to me.
This.
Sometimes people do talk to themselves, like Rebecca, agreed. But to use it so much and so coherent as it is done, that is not realistic - so I'd say OP has a point. It's a minor annoyance but the alternative would be using text prompts the entire time. Personally, I would prefer that entirely in these situations since the entire monologuing thing is kind of putting me off.
One reason may phone calls are made in films and TV are not so much because two characters need to share information, but so that we, the audience will be able to pick up leads to what's happening, from who we are seeing on the screen to what might happen. This was used VERY frequently in shows like 24. The problem in TWD however is that there are no phones, so the monologuing thing is used instead.
click on juice box
"I'd fill that juice box with some bourbon if I could."