Instead of singing, maybe if Clem just hummed an short extract from a song, such as "You are my sunshine",for example. Otherwise, Clem singing? Naah, can't imagine that...
So, you want to hear Clementine singing? Wish fulfilled, her voice actor sang in Back to The Future The Game, another game by Telltale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ3MSqeoFs
Not everything that could be considered a familiar scene is a trope. Like cuddling, a family eating dinner together, etc. As concepts they're not really complex enough to count as tropes.
I have no problem with familiar scenes that aren't tropes. No piece of media can be 100% ambitious all the time; as you say, people need something familiar once in awhile. The problem with tropes is that they're actually so developed, and their message is so clear, that they can be used as a shortcut for communicating with the viewer.
Like, for "riding off into the sunset", every western that uses it as an ending is a little cheaper than the last. The writers could have found another way to tell the viewer that everything will be alright in the end; instead they ape other movies who have said the same thing in the same way.
I feel that calling Luke a knight in shining armor the moment he rescues Clem is a little premature. Yes, he rescues her. Yes, she's more defenseless than him. But he doesn't really come across as morally upstanding; at least, not before he throws Clem on the ground. So, if anything, I'd say Telltale was on their way to fulfilling that trope, but bucked it before it was complete. Turning it on its head would be like really playing up Luke as this compassionate, fearless, white knight type only to reveal that he's secretly a serial killer.
Really, I'm sorry to debate so much in your thread. My original intention was just to present my take on the Clem's Lullaby idea 'cuz I felt like it wasn't yet represented in the thread.
That said, this is still a fun discussion for me, so I thank you for your thought-provoking comments. And, of course, no hard feelings! You're still a great poster, and I hope your thread continues to thrive even if I'm not personally in love with its premise.
I disagree about the RC scene not being a trope, I don't recall ever seeing it before in media where it wasn't trying to give the impression o… moref 'that child is cute'. People eat in media all the time, for very numerous reason, the same cannot be said for the other and so I don't find them comparable.
Better and more ambitious is another thing I guess we disagree on. I do enjoy seeing new things, but everything being new all at once all the time gets overwhelming and befuddles the fans. I still stand by my reasoning that it's always good to have a scene everyone can relate to and enjoy.
Overshooting boundaries was probably bad wording on my part, but the sentiment behind the statement rings true. (Going to far an losing your base.)
Luke, at that point in time, was a stereotypical knight in shining armor, with a morally upstanding personality saving a defenseless other (Clem), and it wasn't until they changed the trope and showed his fearfu… [view original content]
I don't mind open debate in my thread, if I don't have the ability to back up my statements, then I shouldn't be making them.
I feel we are at a dead end with the trope vs non-trope situation, I see some things as tropes and you don't so I will switch it to another idea matter including tropes, you said "Turning it on its head would be like really playing up Luke as this compassionate, fearless, white knight type only to reveal that he's secretly a serial killer," a massive turn of events for an existing trope... so my question is, why can't that do that for this trope? I have never been good at creating scenes in my head (which explains why DomeWing333 has more words in my post than I do) but it isn't out of the question, a nice song starts just to be drown out by the sound of incoming gun fire. I'm not even saying I would prefer this over the example in the above post, but it is an idea.
And of course no hard feelings, I'm having to think too much to be angry :P
I actually have liked this conversation so much I would like you to go to my other "idea" posts and see what you think of them. If you like them, why or why not? If not, why or why not?
Not everything that could be considered a familiar scene is a trope. Like cuddling, a family eating dinner together, etc. As concepts they're … morenot really complex enough to count as tropes.
I have no problem with familiar scenes that aren't tropes. No piece of media can be 100% ambitious all the time; as you say, people need something familiar once in awhile. The problem with tropes is that they're actually so developed, and their message is so clear, that they can be used as a shortcut for communicating with the viewer.
Like, for "riding off into the sunset", every western that uses it as an ending is a little cheaper than the last. The writers could have found another way to tell the viewer that everything will be alright in the end; instead they ape other movies who have said the same thing in the same way.
I feel that calling Luke a knight in shining armor the moment he rescues Clem is a little premature. Yes, he rescues her. Yes, she'… [view original content]
The only problem with trying to put a twist on this particular trope is that the three components that make it up will always be there, and will always relay the same message.
A young girl singing in a grim environment will always call to mind themes of fragility, lost innocence, and a small glimmer of hope. That will persist even if the song is cut off by gunfire, or anything else.
The only thing I could think of that might alter the message is if Clem sang something powerful... Like death metal, as a poor example. XP If she sang something like that, she could come across as strong and defiant in the scene instead. I admit, I wouldn't have such an issue with the idea if it didn't have to be a lullaby.
I'd be happy to look over your other threads when I get home, but I'm on my phone at the moment and it's quite slow when I try to use it to browse threads.
I don't mind open debate in my thread, if I don't have the ability to back up my statements, then I shouldn't be making them.
I feel we ar… moree at a dead end with the trope vs non-trope situation, I see some things as tropes and you don't so I will switch it to another idea matter including tropes, you said "Turning it on its head would be like really playing up Luke as this compassionate, fearless, white knight type only to reveal that he's secretly a serial killer," a massive turn of events for an existing trope... so my question is, why can't that do that for this trope? I have never been good at creating scenes in my head (which explains why DomeWing333 has more words in my post than I do) but it isn't out of the question, a nice song starts just to be drown out by the sound of incoming gun fire. I'm not even saying I would prefer this over the example in the above post, but it is an idea.
And of course no hard feelings, I'm having to thi… [view original content]
Cool can't wait to hear your feedback. So, a song in defiance or empoweration® (mine) but not a lullaby. Get to it TTG. (I still want the trope version.)
The only problem with trying to put a twist on this particular trope is that the three components that make it up will always be there, and wi… morell always relay the same message.
A young girl singing in a grim environment will always call to mind themes of fragility, lost innocence, and a small glimmer of hope. That will persist even if the song is cut off by gunfire, or anything else.
The only thing I could think of that might alter the message is if Clem sang something powerful... Like death metal, as a poor example. XP If she sang something like that, she could come across as strong and defiant in the scene instead. I admit, I wouldn't have such an issue with the idea if it didn't have to be a lullaby.
I'd be happy to look over your other threads when I get home, but I'm on my phone at the moment and it's quite slow when I try to use it to browse threads.
I'll explain why the image of Clem singing doesn't really work for me; She's been surviving for circa 2 years, seen too much horror... (you've played the game too and I'm sure you know what I mean). I think she's fully aware of the risks bursting into song would entail,even if she sung quietly. For me, humming would be much more emotional. It works better in the scene that the OP's talking about.
Never mind, a mod took down one of my posts because he didn't like how I worded it, and so I am off to another forum, hopefully one with mods who aren't so fast with the "close" option they have.
The only problem with trying to put a twist on this particular trope is that the three components that make it up will always be there, and wi… morell always relay the same message.
A young girl singing in a grim environment will always call to mind themes of fragility, lost innocence, and a small glimmer of hope. That will persist even if the song is cut off by gunfire, or anything else.
The only thing I could think of that might alter the message is if Clem sang something powerful... Like death metal, as a poor example. XP If she sang something like that, she could come across as strong and defiant in the scene instead. I admit, I wouldn't have such an issue with the idea if it didn't have to be a lullaby.
I'd be happy to look over your other threads when I get home, but I'm on my phone at the moment and it's quite slow when I try to use it to browse threads.
Never mind, a mod took down one of my posts because he didn't like how I worded it, and so I am off to another forum, hopefully one with mods who aren't so fast with the "close" option they have.
Wow, yes! I don't like the idea of Clem singing... except, if it is that song.... that would be perfect.
And, now that I think of it... Becca was starting to learn guitar in "400 Days", so who knows... Clem could very well sing the song with Becca playing guitar (hopefully much better at it... lol).
So, you want to hear Clementine singing? Wish fulfilled, her voice actor sang in Back to The Future The Game, another game by Telltale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ3MSqeoFs
Yeah right, like Joker sang at the end of Batman: Arhkam City and Origins. By this logic the villain should sing
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VOpr-0xQDk8
Soo maybe Carver would sing? :P
Given my musical bend, and seeing the game likes to resort to country music, a thread like this would steer my mind in the direction of folk music. Songs of that ilk usually are the most poignant and expressive sort one finds. A pity then that the world and setting we are dealing with in this game isn't Mediterranean in character, because this song would fit very well. Greeks have a natural habit for evoking feelings of misery and lamentation in their music, and they have a thing especially for what would be called songs of exile (emigration). This one is one of the most popular and tender traditional songs of that category. Were Lee a Greek, and should you imagine him somehow surviving the final events of the first season, I can see him singing this as the years pass, if you think of this new world with its harsh principles and predatory stance towards those who inhabit it now as 'foreign lands'. 'Tzivaeri' comes from the word for 'precious stone'.
Oh! The foreign lands are taking delight in her
my Tzivaeri
my perfect-smelling flower
slowly, slowly, slowly and humbly
[Omitted stanza: Oh! It was I who sent her there
my Tzivaeri
on my own will
slowly, slowly, slowly I step on earth]
Oh! Damn you foreign lands
my Tzivaeri
you and your own good
slowly, slowly, slowly I step on earth
Oh! That you’ve taken my little child
my Tzivaeri
and made her yours
slowly, slowly, slowly and humbly
Ha! I probably wouldn't discount that possibility were an Armenian like Clint Bajakian the one scoring these games. Jared Emerson-Johnson was once an assistant composer to the man, if I'm right.
Ha! I probably wouldn't discount that possibility were an Armenian like Clint Bajakian the one scoring these games. Jared Emerson-Johnson was once an assistant composer to the man, if I'm right.
Given my musical bend, and seeing the game likes to resort to country music, a thread like this would steer my mind in the direction of folk m… moreusic. Songs of that ilk usually are the most poignant and expressive sort one finds. A pity then that the world and setting we are dealing with in this game isn't Mediterranean in character, because this song would fit very well. Greeks have a natural habit for evoking feelings of misery and lamentation in their music, and they have a thing especially for what would be called songs of exile (emigration). This one is one of the most popular and tender traditional songs of that category. Were Lee a Greek, and should you imagine him somehow surviving the final events of the first season, I can see him singing this as the years pass, if you think of this new world with its harsh principles and predatory stance towards those who inhabit it now as 'foreign lands'. 'Tzivaeri' comes from the word for 'preciou… [view original content]
Decibel range for humming quietly and singing softly are roughly the same if I remember correctly, meaning both can be done just as quietly as the other. I wouldn't mind if it was either of them per say, but I think the lyrics and the meaning behind them would be the powerful part of the scene. IMO
I'll explain why the image of Clem singing doesn't really work for me; She's been surviving for circa 2 years, seen too much horror... (you've… more played the game too and I'm sure you know what I mean). I think she's fully aware of the risks bursting into song would entail,even if she sung quietly. For me, humming would be much more emotional. It works better in the scene that the OP's talking about.
Comments
Not even close :P
So you can see her humming a song, but not singing it? I can easily see both.
Put all of these to play at the same time, so perfect...?
Not everything that could be considered a familiar scene is a trope. Like cuddling, a family eating dinner together, etc. As concepts they're not really complex enough to count as tropes.
I have no problem with familiar scenes that aren't tropes. No piece of media can be 100% ambitious all the time; as you say, people need something familiar once in awhile. The problem with tropes is that they're actually so developed, and their message is so clear, that they can be used as a shortcut for communicating with the viewer.
Like, for "riding off into the sunset", every western that uses it as an ending is a little cheaper than the last. The writers could have found another way to tell the viewer that everything will be alright in the end; instead they ape other movies who have said the same thing in the same way.
I feel that calling Luke a knight in shining armor the moment he rescues Clem is a little premature. Yes, he rescues her. Yes, she's more defenseless than him. But he doesn't really come across as morally upstanding; at least, not before he throws Clem on the ground. So, if anything, I'd say Telltale was on their way to fulfilling that trope, but bucked it before it was complete. Turning it on its head would be like really playing up Luke as this compassionate, fearless, white knight type only to reveal that he's secretly a serial killer.
Really, I'm sorry to debate so much in your thread. My original intention was just to present my take on the Clem's Lullaby idea 'cuz I felt like it wasn't yet represented in the thread.
That said, this is still a fun discussion for me, so I thank you for your thought-provoking comments. And, of course, no hard feelings! You're still a great poster, and I hope your thread continues to thrive even if I'm not personally in love with its premise.
I don't mind open debate in my thread, if I don't have the ability to back up my statements, then I shouldn't be making them.
I feel we are at a dead end with the trope vs non-trope situation, I see some things as tropes and you don't so I will switch it to another idea matter including tropes, you said "Turning it on its head would be like really playing up Luke as this compassionate, fearless, white knight type only to reveal that he's secretly a serial killer," a massive turn of events for an existing trope... so my question is, why can't that do that for this trope? I have never been good at creating scenes in my head (which explains why DomeWing333 has more words in my post than I do) but it isn't out of the question, a nice song starts just to be drown out by the sound of incoming gun fire. I'm not even saying I would prefer this over the example in the above post, but it is an idea.
And of course no hard feelings, I'm having to think too much to be angry :P
I actually have liked this conversation so much I would like you to go to my other "idea" posts and see what you think of them. If you like them, why or why not? If not, why or why not?
The only problem with trying to put a twist on this particular trope is that the three components that make it up will always be there, and will always relay the same message.
A young girl singing in a grim environment will always call to mind themes of fragility, lost innocence, and a small glimmer of hope. That will persist even if the song is cut off by gunfire, or anything else.
The only thing I could think of that might alter the message is if Clem sang something powerful... Like death metal, as a poor example. XP If she sang something like that, she could come across as strong and defiant in the scene instead. I admit, I wouldn't have such an issue with the idea if it didn't have to be a lullaby.
I'd be happy to look over your other threads when I get home, but I'm on my phone at the moment and it's quite slow when I try to use it to browse threads.
Cool can't wait to hear your feedback. So, a song in defiance or empoweration® (mine) but not a lullaby. Get to it TTG. (I still want the trope version.)
I'll explain why the image of Clem singing doesn't really work for me; She's been surviving for circa 2 years, seen too much horror... (you've played the game too and I'm sure you know what I mean). I think she's fully aware of the risks bursting into song would entail,even if she sung quietly. For me, humming would be much more emotional. It works better in the scene that the OP's talking about.
Never mind, a mod took down one of my posts because he didn't like how I worded it, and so I am off to another forum, hopefully one with mods who aren't so fast with the "close" option they have.
I noticed that it was reopened just recently. Congrats
I'll go ahead and post my thoughts in the threads you directed me to.
I don't think I saw you comment on this one:
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/55735/carlos-and-clem-showdown
It's my favorite
Yeah, sorry, it took me awhile to formulate what I wanted to post.
BANNED!
I doubt that. She's sick of kenny's bullshit.
"It is altogether fitting and proper that they should to that." - Abe Lincoln
Wow, yes! I don't like the idea of Clem singing... except, if it is that song.... that would be perfect.
And, now that I think of it... Becca was starting to learn guitar in "400 Days", so who knows... Clem could very well sing the song with Becca playing guitar (hopefully much better at it... lol).
I listened to all of them at once, with some started earlier, than others, and I heard, "Ken Kenny Ken Just whisper in my ear."
Never doing that again.
Any fresh takes?
How about Clementine sings the song Mad World by Gary Jules in the ending credits of Season 2 Episode 4: Amid the Ruins?
she should sing Anadel-In The Water while she fights an Army Of Walkers.:D CLEM IS BADASS
Yeah right, like Joker sang at the end of Batman: Arhkam City and Origins. By this logic the villain should sing
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VOpr-0xQDk8
Soo maybe Carver would sing? :P
Lol I love this. I'll admit it, it feels like your the Governor signing the song to me, who is Rick.
But seriously, I think it could work, inspiration doesn't hurt.
Sorry if anyone has already said this but what if she sang a song to Rebecca during her birth no doubt in episode 3 to ease her up a bit.
Nope I think that's a first, and pretty interesting... seems like it would be a bit awkward though
Does seem that way but just for another sort of way to bring that in,I would like to hear her sing
Agreed. Would definitely be interesting.
A Phoenix Wright fan!!! I knew I wasn't alone!
You're never alone,friend.
Given my musical bend, and seeing the game likes to resort to country music, a thread like this would steer my mind in the direction of folk music. Songs of that ilk usually are the most poignant and expressive sort one finds. A pity then that the world and setting we are dealing with in this game isn't Mediterranean in character, because this song would fit very well. Greeks have a natural habit for evoking feelings of misery and lamentation in their music, and they have a thing especially for what would be called songs of exile (emigration). This one is one of the most popular and tender traditional songs of that category. Were Lee a Greek, and should you imagine him somehow surviving the final events of the first season, I can see him singing this as the years pass, if you think of this new world with its harsh principles and predatory stance towards those who inhabit it now as 'foreign lands'. 'Tzivaeri' comes from the word for 'precious stone'.
Oh! The foreign lands are taking delight in her
my Tzivaeri
my perfect-smelling flower
slowly, slowly, slowly and humbly
[Omitted stanza: Oh! It was I who sent her there
my Tzivaeri
on my own will
slowly, slowly, slowly I step on earth]
Oh! Damn you foreign lands
my Tzivaeri
you and your own good
slowly, slowly, slowly I step on earth
Oh! That you’ve taken my little child
my Tzivaeri
and made her yours
slowly, slowly, slowly and humbly
Here are two more versions:
Stop giving telltale ideas, they're probably reading this. I'm going to kill you if it's in the game.
Ha! I probably wouldn't discount that possibility were an Armenian like Clint Bajakian the one scoring these games. Jared Emerson-Johnson was once an assistant composer to the man, if I'm right.
I did not understand one word you said, speak English.
The irony of that run-on statement is deafening.
Oh the irony!
Interesting......
yeh
Decibel range for humming quietly and singing softly are roughly the same if I remember correctly, meaning both can be done just as quietly as the other. I wouldn't mind if it was either of them per say, but I think the lyrics and the meaning behind them would be the powerful part of the scene. IMO
Just saw Azlyn post a thread about Luke and Nick singing, so I figured I'd bring this thread back to the boards with it.