Addiction

enter link description here

This is a fun youtube channel. Saw this video and thought it was interesting.

«1

Comments

  • Great video, thanks!

    Here's one by Dr. Gabor Maté about the nature of addiction and how it's best treated. I'd heavily recommend his work to anyone who wants to know more about the subject.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=T5sOh4gKPIg

  • enter link description here

    I think this song pretty much summarizes how i feel about my life and my proclivities.

  • And why do you say that?

  • edited October 2015

    I can see the point they're trying to get across but the science behind addiction and how drugs actually work with the body is different and much more complex than just a "cage". Sure, being in that cage can cause a person to start drugs but if they were to escape it, it doesn't mean they're suddenly no addicted anymore. This video lacks a lot of research and actual scientific evidence. I could get into depth with this but it would take a while.

  • It's as if the people who made the video have:

    1. never been addicted to anything before

    2. Enjoy making "educational" videos off of opinions.

  • This is very interesting! Thank you for sharing.

    1. You don't need to have an addiction to learn/know about addictions. That's just silly.

    2. Opinion not so much, theoretical I would agree with. All knowledge is preceeded by ideas.

    It's as if the people who made the video have: * never been addicted to anything before * Enjoy making "educational" videos off of opinions.

  • If I think about it, a lot of addiction is to escape from something, so this makes some sense.

  • edited October 2015

    but the science behind addiction and how drugs actually work with the body is different

    This barely discusses the topic of how drugs work in the body (pleasurable chemical reactions in the brain, etc.) but moreso the effects on the mind (e.i. dependency). The distinction between the physical brain and the consciousness of an individual is important here.

    and much more complex than just a "cage"

    It's obviously more complex. . . it was a 6 minute video.

    it doesn't mean they're suddenly no addicted anymore.

    The Vietnam veterans?

    This video lacks a lot of research and actual scientific evidence.

    It was 6 minutes long and gave 4 examples of the concept (2 by Professor Alexander in the '70s and 2 social (i.e. the veterans and the hospital patients)) I think that's a fairly good ratio.

    I could get into depth with this but it would take a while.

    By all means. I like being smarterer, if you can make a convincing argument as to why it is more not a problem with environment vs their stance I would be more than happy to alter my position.

    I can see the point they're trying to get across but the science behind addiction and how drugs actually work with the body is different and

  • The Vietnam veterans not going through withdrawal implies they were not addicted. They were using it recreationally. This video spends a lot of time discussing people and things that aren't actually addicted, and very little about actual addiction.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    but the science behind addiction and how drugs actually work with the body is different This barely discusses the topic of how drugs

  • edited October 2015

    The Vietnam veterans not going through withdrawal implies they were not addicted. They were using it recreationally. This video spends a lot of time discussing people and things that aren't actually addicted, and very little about actual addiction.

  • State your case, I'm not clicking on a bunch of links to god knows where.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2012/01/02/144431794/what-vietnam-taught-us-about-breaking-bad-habits A random source overview.

  • If you won't even look at sources this is a useless conversation. Adieu.

    State your case, I'm not clicking on a bunch of links to god knows where.

  • You want me to do the work for YOUR argument. That's not how conversations work.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    If you won't even look at sources this is a useless conversation. Adieu.

  • No. I gave you a place to check what I said. So far you've done nothing but say something.

    You want me to do the work for YOUR argument. That's not how conversations work.

  • I stated the lack of withdrawal implies they aren't addicted. No physical dependence. You say 20% were addicted. Again, I'm not doing your work for you, if I wanted to check what you say I can look things up on my own. The fact that you're posting links means nothing to me. The video focused on mental addiction, or rather the lack of mental addiction. It really only talked about addiction in the last minute and a half. Claiming hospitals give heroin to people and those people don't become addicted is misleading. Doctors know how addiction works and actively try to avoid their patients becoming addicted. People become addicted to prescription medication ALL. THE. TIME. Normal, happy people who just, I don't know, maybe break their wrist and start taking too much oxycontin because that shit hurts. I'm not going to say addiction is purely physical, because it isn't. But at some point it has to be part of the equation or the person isn't addicted, they're obsessed.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    No. I gave you a place to check what I said. So far you've done nothing but say something.

  • Haha. K.

    I stated the lack of withdrawal implies they aren't addicted. No physical dependence. You say 20% were addicted. Again, I'm not doing you

  • Great response. And to go back to the post I originally replied to; If someone is an addict, they are ALWAYS addicted. It doesn't matter how long they have gone without partaking in their addiction. The longer a person goes without doing it, the less they crave it. I know people who stopped smoking cigarettes decades ago and still get cravings. K?

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    Haha. K.

  • Really great video.

  • edited October 2015

    You can also crush your own addictions. This is how some get out of them and someone who tells them that you can't do that is quite wrong (or the person is just too weak mentally to pull it off.) It can also make you more resistant to any kind of addiction.

    One way the addiction keeps you in its grip is when you tell yourself that you can't fight it without professional help. When you think about it a second, it's kind of stupid. Professionals generally are more like guides to get you help yourself.

    And yes, I was a quite WoW addict back in the day so I would know.

  • But why would you shun professional help if it's available? Encouraging drug users to quit 'cold turkey' and without help is counterproductive.

    Withdrawal symptoms aren't as crippling as scientists once thought, but they are quite real. I took a large dose of ADHD medicine for ten years and stopped earlier this year. The withdrawal symptoms were very unpleasant, and if I consulted a doctor (which I didn't have access to at the time), the process probably would've gone much smoother.

    Clord posted: »

    You can also crush your own addictions. This is how some get out of them and someone who tells them that you can't do that is quite wrong (o

  • Well i am glad you have such faith in me, that i have got my life together. Sniff, you are the only one...

  • edited November 2015

    Addiction works differently for everyone. Getting addicted to something varies from person to person. There are some people who will get addicted to something, lets say, heroin, but there are others who can't get addicted to it.

    The imbalance of certain chemicals in the brain are what make people addicted to certain drugs. A cage isn't what makes people addicted. You could get out of that cage and still very much be addicted to whatever drug you've been addicted to. For example, the imbalance of the serotonin chemical in the brain is what causes depression, Then you get anti-depressants that balance it out. Or, people take a non-prescribed harmful drug that balances it out as well. It gets addicting because the brain is so used to this drug balancing out the chemicals for it that when it isn't getting that help, it craves it.

    A drug replicates the neuron transmitter that the brain already naturally produces. When the brain isn't producing the natural chemicals correctly, that's when the drug kicks in. Drugs act like the natural chemical to cause an action potential, or "fire, of the motor neuron that makes someone feel a certain way and does a job for the brain because the brain isn't already doing it. Or it sits in the receiving receptor sites of the dendrites of a neuron. Which essentially shuts down that receptor site so neuron transmitters cant occupy it and make that motor neuron produce an action potential, or "fire."

    So the drug either makes the neuron fire, or make it not fire. Depending on if the brain is making too much of that chemical, or not enough.

    But if the brain is producing the chemical enough already, the drug is essentially useless to the brain. So the brain doesn't need it, and the brain does not get addicted to it. Hence how i said before "Getting addicted to something varies from person to person. There are some people who will get addicted to something, lets say, heroin, but there are others who can't get addicted to it." This also explains the situation with the veterans. @PuhChewyChomp was correct as well. They were not addicted.

    The cage is incorrect because no matter what cage you get out of, that wont stop the brain from producing the chemicals incorrectly. Like i said, it's way too complex. In those paragraphs alone I gave more useful and correct information than that 6 minute video did.

    I'm in no way trying desperately to prove you wrong, that video just wasn't accurate for the most part.

    And no. I'm not making any of this up. I am currently taking an AP Psychology class and we just finish studying this. So I'm pretty aware of what I am saying. I got all my information from a certified college course psychology book about this subject. So I believe my information is more correct than that of a website found on the internet where anything can be said.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    but the science behind addiction and how drugs actually work with the body is different This barely discusses the topic of how drugs

  • Yes and no. If you look at it in the restricted domain of what the brain wants at a certain point in time then you have a valid argument, but an imbalance in certain brain chemicals doesn't usually "just happen". It's why people that suffer abuse, lose, or other such traumatic events are much more likely to abuse illicit drugs. This explains the veterans situation (because they were addicted, I would sooner take the side of the scholarly article than I would yours, no offense (though I would note that I was spreading misinformation in my post with Puh because they were detoxed before returning home, but the fact that they had no averse side effects after returning is the remarkable, and notable, part)). This happened because they were in an environment that altered the chemicals in the brain, which led to addiction when they were introduced to heroin, and this addiction disappeared when they were returned to their "good" environments. When they were released from their metaphorical cage.

    The cage is incorrect because no matter what cage you get out of, that wont stop the brain from producing the chemicals incorrectly.

    And what are you basing this off of? What if the cage is the thing that makes your brain produce the chemicals incorrectly in the first place?

    Like i said, it's way too complex. In those paragraphs alone I gave more useful and correct information than that 6 minute video did.

    I wouldn't say that. You gave additional information on the interaction of chemicals within the brain, but your argument is invalidated in the light of environment (the cage) causing the incorrect production of the chemicals to begin with (which is the point the video was trying to make: if you take a person out of the environment that is causing the problem there is a good chance the problem (drug abuse as a form of pain reliever) will cease to exist (now obviously there are times the environment is indeed not the cause of the problem, but it often is)). Like in a conversation about what causes a watermelon to be cut open (a knife) you bring up that the interaction between the molecules of the watermelon itself are being separated.

    I'm in no way trying desperately to prove you wrong, that video just wasn't accurate for the most part.

    I enjoy discourse, usually. I just believe that the video is far more accurate than it is inaccurate.

    And no. I'm not making any of this up. I am currently taking an AP Psychology class and we just finish studying this. I'm pretty aware of what I am saying.

    Psychology is an interesting subject. I most enjoyed the information concerning the portions of the brain responsible for certain functions. I wrote my end of the semester paper on the lobotomy. Taking a class on a subject doesn't mean you're a subject matter expert, and even if you were that doesn't make you correct on every point of reference within that subject. Especially on a subject as difficult as psychology. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "nature versus nurture" before, and as such it's quite silly to think the environment does not affect the brain in ways that would affect substance abuse.

    Addiction works differently for everyone. Getting addicted to something varies from person to person. There are some people who will get a

  • edited November 2015

    Take the professional help if you need it.

    I'm not saying that you should hide your problems.

    I'm just saying that one huge mistake to make in front of the addiction is to think that you're powerless without outside help.

    Why not take both? ;)

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    But why would you shun professional help if it's available? Encouraging drug users to quit 'cold turkey' and without help is counterproduct

  • enter image description here

    I approve awesome video and a wonderful message to send I have no complaints here as long as it's accompanied by rehab and education of the dangers of drugs to stop people taking them and recover

  • If it works for you, great. I do think its a dangerous message to send out. I've never been an addict, but I have suffered mental health problems, and I wasted a ton of time thinking I could do it on my own. Literally years of failing to help myself and telling myself I was too weak. Which just made things worse. As far as I can tell, there's zero upside to going it alone and tons of downsides.

    Clord posted: »

    You can also crush your own addictions. This is how some get out of them and someone who tells them that you can't do that is quite wrong (o

  • edited November 2015

    Please read my additional reply.

    I'm not saying you should solo it in a case you just somehow can't.

    Sending dangerous message? Well then the person who did read it understood it wrong.

    Addiction resistance is btw still a real thing, that is what prevents you from relapsing as easily.

    Mental Shield TM. ;)

    mosfet posted: »

    If it works for you, great. I do think its a dangerous message to send out. I've never been an addict, but I have suffered mental health pro

  • edited November 2015

    I should also point out that addicts often get offended if someone dares to advice them.

    Especially if the addict is someone who seriously tries to get off from the stuff like tobacco.

    I once told a such person that stopping smoking is easier than losing weight. A big mistake even if you're already an adult. It's like poking hornet's nest.

  • edited November 2015

    This is all stuff they tell you when you get help though. I was told over and over again that I had to put in work beyond taking medication and showing up to therapy. We should be pushing people to get help, not telling them that they can do it on their own. Recovery rates are significantly higher when you get help. Source.

    If I broke my leg, I could theoretically figure out how to make myself a cast, but its a terrible idea. Its so bizarre to me that people think differently about illnesses of the mind. If you're sick, mentally or otherwise, your doctor is your first line of defense. It really is that simple.

    Clord posted: »

    Please read my additional reply. I'm not saying you should solo it in a case you just somehow can't. Sending dangerous message? Well t

  • I love when people who "have" no bad habits constantly judge us that do.

  • Who's judging you?

    CrazyGeorge posted: »

    I love when people who "have" no bad habits constantly judge us that do.

  • Everyone got problems, ours just involve bad habits. Some people are judgemental know it alls. Everyone in life has faults.

  • I don't see any judging going on.

    CrazyGeorge posted: »

    I love when people who "have" no bad habits constantly judge us that do.

  • edited November 2015

    That's disturbing.

    EDIT: Hey! That's in my feed as well :p

    enter link description here

  • It's not all about you.

    CrazyGeorge posted: »

    I love when people who "have" no bad habits constantly judge us that do.

  • That's so weird, it was in my feed on YouTube.

    enter link description here

  • edited November 2015

    I'm still not saying you shouldn't get help if you need it.

    I¨m just saying that you need also help yourself. They can't do their job effectively if you don't cooperate.

    Aka the point you're telling me that I already told you previously?

    Also we are not talking about physical injuries like breaking a leg. Of course you would seek a professional, unless you're trained in the field.

    mosfet posted: »

    This is all stuff they tell you when you get help though. I was told over and over again that I had to put in work beyond taking medication

Sign in to comment in this discussion.