Dissapointing

First of all..I'm a huge point-and-click fan. But,,,I'm really sad that they don't make the games that they used to do.
I've been alltime fan of dott, sam&max, monkey island, and all of the other old point-and-click games.
Bougth the Sam&Max complete season. Tried half through the first part of episode 1, and got really dissapointed. Sure, they have alot of cool dialogue etc, but its lack of atmosphere really gets me bored fast.
Really wanted to try the ned Monkey Island as well, but got stuck on the same boredome there as well.
Have the gamedesigners played the old point-and-click games?
Sure we got multi processor being able to toss tons of grahics to the screen,,,but do we need it?

I really urge the game developpers to stop expand the meanings of point-and click... We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame.

These should be the standard for point-and-click:
1) Graphics isnt everything in THIS types of games. Just look back at the old (for instance) Day Of The Tentacle - or Monkey Island for that matter. Those games had it all. It was a great atmosphere, that should no more than sharpen the edges when it comes to grahics.
The graphics was a bit fuzzy, but THAT should be the entire update on gamedesign; by just making the "same" graphics, but with better details..NO MORE.
2) This type of game had its glory for several years,,,until the gamedeveloppers started to expand the meaning of point-and-click. Stop making modifications of something that works GREAT. Use the bottom bar, display the "pickup/use/look....." as easy to get to menues, have the movement stop at clicking, have the player more focus on the tasks such as solving puzzels etc.
3) Focus on the puzzels, and focus on how the graphics (more like the old days) bright upp the game. Stop evolving the interface of the gameplay.
4) Focus on gameplay (which was genius back in the days), and stop reinventing a FINE wheel.
5) And finnally....Why fix it, if it aint broken?

Point-and-Click are more or less ruined as gametype,,,but I really beg and urge the software developpers to start making these types of games like they used to.
Just think of Full Throttle. I was thrilled when I heard the news of a sequel. But when I saw the grahics they wore going for,,,,it really lowered my expectations for it. And still,,,,it hasnt comed out yet. Do actually believe it has much to do with the gamedesign; which then lowers the expectations for people.
Full throttle, which was a genius game as well, only had its flaws with its right-click system for open/use etc. The 3d-part in that game ,,,I can sort of understand it because of the bikeriding,,but luckily it wasnt a big part of the game.
The old Dott, Sam&Max, Grim Fandango etc (police quest, kings quest for that matter, and the rest of them) should more or less set the standard for the games even today IF they are to made as a point and click. JUST update the "edges" on the graphics, and do NOT use the damn 3d. 3d games are for other types of games; NOT this.

Sam&Max + Monkey Island is pretty much ruined for me.
But,,,IF someone makes a sequal to DOTT,,,PLEASE don't wreck it. I beg you.

A brother of a friend of mine (12) are a real sucker for point-and-click. And like myself,,he likes the old ones far better.
He's more of a top notch pc-user, but says the settings and humor are far more better in the old games than then new ones; he has played sam&max himself. Im 29, and have grown up wth point-and-click. He is 12 yeaers old and has grown up with high end pc-specc games,,,,,we both likes the old versions of point-and-click better

Please remake sam&max + monkey island again. this time...do it fair to the point-and-click
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Comments

  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    Have the gamedesigners played the old point-and-click games?
    Well, many of them have actually DONE those old point-and-click games.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame.

    Just to clarify, this person does not speak for me.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal, I love the old point-y-click 2-d games as much as anyone, but you may want to take off your glasses.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    we both likes the old versions of point-and-click better

    Then have fun replaying the old games and leave it at that
    There is so much that annoys me about your post i dont know where to start...
  • edited July 2009
    I really like all the telltale games.
    Just would be nice if you could make guybrush run, like Sam in the second season of sam and max.
    Apart from that, the game was perfect.
  • edited July 2009
    Bruno83 wrote: »
    I really like all the telltale games.
    Just would be nice if you could make guybrush run, like Sam in the second season of sam and max.
    Apart from that, the game was perfect.

    try pressing shift (or right mouse button)
  • edited July 2009
    Bruno83 wrote: »
    I really like all the telltale games.
    Just would be nice if you could make guybrush run, like Sam in the second season of sam and max.
    Apart from that, the game was perfect.


    Hold down shift, or right mouse button if you are using the mouse to move.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    Just think of Full Throttle. I was thrilled when I heard the news of a sequel. But when I saw the grahics they wore going for,,,,it really lowered my expectations for it. And still,,,,it hasnt comed out yet. Do actually believe it has much to do with the gamedesign; which then lowers the expectations for people.

    I think the game getting canceled has something to do with the delay of the release.:rolleyes:
  • edited July 2009
    hey thanks
    can't believe I didn't find out myself.
    I emberassed.
    so....
    the game really is perfect!!
  • edited July 2009
    I don't see how the game being 3D detracted from the experience at all. For the most part, it played pretty much exactly the same as old 2D point and clicks (although having that control scheme back would be nice!). The 3D environment certainly didn't hamper anything or cause any problems.

    Like others have said.. you seem to be blinded by nostalgia and are forcing yourself not to enjoy these games from your belief that they can never be as good.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal, I love the old point-y-click 2-d games as much as anyone, but you may want to take off your glasses.

    This could be said about the praising ones as well.
    Please don't get me wrong : i'm pretty happy with what telltale and i'm growing tired of hearing the same complains over and over, just as most people on this board.
    But this doesn't make some of the complains less valid. Telltale IS doing a great job, but i do believe it could be better, and i thought this thread was a bit more interesting than the usual complains. A bit more thought out, and even though it didn't bother me as much, i do agree with a certain lack of atmophere. I LOVED telltale's sam and max, but it had to grow on me (and i'm pretty sure the same is gonna happen with TMI). They basically lack this little something that instantly draws you into the game. why is that ? No idea.
  • edited July 2009
    Why do people need to post their personal opinions as if they were universal truthts for every player?

    Also, how in monkey's sake did Grim Fandango sneak up on the point and click no 3D list of standards for today's games?
  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    Please remake sam&max + monkey island again. this time...do it fair to the point-and-click

    I'm sure they're all busy in the office remaking the games for you.
  • edited July 2009
    olspal wrote: »
    Bougth the Sam&Max complete season. Tried half through the first part of episode 1, and got really dissapointed. Sure, they have alot of cool dialogue etc, but its lack of atmosphere really gets me bored fast.
    Could you define atmoshpere? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
    Have the gamedesigners played the old point-and-click games?
    They're probably not as fun to play when you designed them. Then you'll know all the answers to the puzzles.
    We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame.
    I think you mean "I". I like 3D graphics fine, and I do like fun.
    2) This type of game had its glory for several years,,,until the gamedeveloppers started to expand the meaning of point-and-click. Stop making modifications of something that works GREAT. Use the bottom bar, display the "pickup/use/look....." as easy to get to menues, have the movement stop at clicking, have the player more focus on the tasks such as solving puzzels etc.
    I don't think interface changes were responsible for the decline of adventure gaming.
    Just think of Full Throttle. I was thrilled when I heard the news of a sequel.

    [snip]

    And still,,,,it hasnt comed out yet. Do actually believe it has much to do with the gamedesign; which then lowers the expectations for people.
    I don't think the game being cancelled had anything to do with the fact it was in 3D.
    The old Dott, Sam&Max, Grim Fandango etc (police quest, kings quest for that matter, and the rest of them) should more or less set the standard for the games even today IF they are to made as a point and click.
    The Kings Quest and Police Quest games were not originally point and click.
    3d games are for other types of games; NOT this.
    Why?
    Sam&Max + Monkey Island is pretty much ruined for me.
    But,,,IF someone makes a sequal to DOTT,,,PLEASE don't wreck it. I beg you.
    You'll let your dislike of a seperate game in the same franchise ruin the games you do like?
    Please remake sam&max + monkey island again. this time...do it fair to the point-and-click
    The Sam and Max games are point and click. Besides, the writing is more important than the control scheme, and the writing's great.
    I LOVED telltale's sam and max, but it had to grow on me (and i'm pretty sure the same is gonna happen with TMI). They basically lack this little something that instantly draws you into the game. why is that ? No idea.
    That's interesting, because Sam & Max Hit the Road had to grow on me, while the Telltale games sucked me in straight away. I guess it's different for every person.
  • edited July 2009
    @olspal: Door... yadda... backside... yadda... way-out - you know the drill. (And welcome to my ignore list...)

    Also - am I the only one getting tired of people starting new threads to whine about the controls instead of posting into the existing threads?

    np: Underworld - SolaSistim (AHundredDaysOff)
  • edited July 2009
    to the bloke naming "Grim Fandango" wasnt that game exactly in the same playing style of Monkey 4 and ToMI?
  • edited July 2009
    That's interesting, because Sam & Max Hit the Road had to grow on me, while the Telltale games sucked me in straight away. I guess it's different for every person.

    Interesting indeed ;)
    Obviously people's brains work differently from other's, which i guess is why i really can't understand why it wokred that way for you.
    That being said, i don't really know why it worked the other way for me either... Maybe it's related to the gameworld being bigger, making the whole thing feel a bit more realistic, or coherent... Or maybe it's related to the overall tone (there's a thread on this already with a lot of great and constructive points which i love). But i think it's also something quite hard to indentify, that "atmosphere" thing (and that's THE point i partly agree with in the complain above). I dunno, when i ran the old lucasart games, i somehow fell in love even before the actual gameplay started, which i don't find in the telltale games. It's not about the actual writing or stories, since they are great at this too. It's weird, i kinda wish i could tell exactly what it was but at the same time i feel like it would just remove the whole magic as soon as i found it :p
    Which makes this post kinda useless. Oh well, i like useless posts.
  • edited July 2009
    I´m a hardcore fan of the genre since almost 20 years back, and I say kudos to Telltale for this fine example how to of evolvethe genre with the use of 3D graphics, interface and the episodic format. They are not quite there yet with the puzzle design, but in all other aspects they really nailed it with Launch of the Screaming Narwahl.
  • edited July 2009
    I too miss the verbs on the bottom of the screen
    Personally i would have loved if they had used the scumm engine for the new games, no need to even up the resolution, MI2 was/is amazing, and i think the pixelated look adds to it
  • edited July 2009
    I don't miss verbs on the bottom of the screen, but I do miss multiple verbs, like the Full Throttle or COMI interfaces.
  • edited July 2009
    Well, the interface is simpler than previous games and the game is 3D. BUT I don't think that hurts the game one bit. I'd hate to admit it, since I grew up with 2d games, but in this case 3D actually improves the gaming experience! The camera always zooms in on the items and characters, follows Guybrush very elegantly and in the end gives the whole game a cinematic feel.

    As for the verbs, in the end of the day they are overrated. CMI really showed an adventure game doesn't suffer with less commands.
  • edited July 2009
    Olspal, I'm gonna do something that I never did before in a forum. I'm sorry, but you really stepped on my tail with this.
    I don't care what your perception of a "good adventure game" is, I simply suggest that you don't ever EVER speak in our name. You have no idea how hard it is to develop a game. You have absolutely no idea what it implies, apart from the work these people are going through.
    It's good to have opinions, it's okay not to like things... but don't you ever dare suggest what WE like and don't like. Better yet, keep it to yourself next time.

    Your simple statement regarding the re-make of Sam and Max and Monkey Island shows your level of comprehension and maturity.

    I agree with Leak.
  • edited July 2009
    That guy most definately does not speak for me!


    This is my first ever post on this forum but trust me I am a dedicated monkey island fan (I am 25 and got the first monkey island in 1990 for my 286 12mhz) and as such I am angered by the authors post.

    Great game. superb love it
  • edited July 2009
    I too miss the verbs on the bottom of the screen
    Personally i would have loved if they had used the scumm engine for the new games, no need to even up the resolution, MI2 was/is amazing, and i think the pixelated look adds to it

    Ah please give us back the full keyboard control of the early sierra adventure games, or what the heck why do we even have graphics, text adventures are the best :D
  • edited July 2009
    Its cloudy and gloomy today..... Probably TTG' fault.
  • edited July 2009
    why so pissed about the "we" ?
    Seems pretty obvious to me than no matter how he expresses his point, not everyone will share his opinion...
    Its cloudy and gloomy today..... Probably TTG' fault.

    I'll never forgive them for killing my goldfish :eek:
  • edited July 2009
    I know im pretty sure its them who never puts a new toilet paper roll on when they finish the old one.... WHAT A BUNCH OF JERKS
  • edited July 2009
    I'll never forgive them for killing my goldfish :eek:
    Bah... that fish was just plotting your demise anyway... :p

    np: Moritz Von Oswald Trio - Patterns 1 (Vertical Ascent)
  • edited July 2009
    ...uh yes the team have played a lot of classic games.they worked on them! Go read the TOMI website again.
    Also if graphics don't matter, how come you keep mentioning them? What I am understanding here is that you don't like the more streamlined interface of newer adventure games? Whilst it does simplify the puzzles sometimes, I get what a lot of developers are doing. They are reducing the barrier between you solving the puzzle in your head and actually being able to do it.

    Given the fact you didn't know about full Throttle 2, leads me to think you've not kept up with click points? and were expecting the same as you used to play? Which means you've missed out on a lot...
    Man I feel old! I remember when Verb Coins were new and daring!
  • edited July 2009
    Enjoying these 3D games very much. Even to the extend that I have bought every single game in the TellTale store (apart from CSI).

    As for the controls, I was playing ToMI on my laptop with a touchpad. Not ideal. Tried a mouse (an Apple Mighty Mouse even), almost there. Now I have bought a wireless keyboard with built-in trackball and hey, this is what this game needs! I very very much recommend a trackball, guys!

    As I'm writing this on my netbook, ToMI is playing on my regular laptop. I'm now at D'Oro the Explorer and just look at the screen what happens when you're not playing! D'Oro is playing with his dolls Action Figures and Guybrush' hand is twitching. Great little details!
  • edited July 2009
    Leak wrote: »
    Bah... that fish was just plotting your demise anyway... :p

    np: Moritz Von Oswald Trio - Patterns 1 (Vertical Ascent)

    Yeah that little b@$t@rd was just waiting for you to fall asleep.

    evilgoldfish.jpg
  • edited July 2009
    Mr spatula :eek:
  • edited July 2009
    I really urge the game developpers to stop expand the meanings of point-and click... We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame.
    This pisses me off. "We"? WTF are we? It's not me. It's not anyone you speak for. It's you. That's all that it is. I can speak for myself tyvm.
  • edited July 2009
    If they had said "Hey MI is going to be 2D"... I would have been like "AWESOME!"

    When I heard there was going to be a new 3D monkey Island game you know what I said? "AWESOME!"
  • edited July 2009
    werpu wrote: »
    Ah please give us back the full keyboard control of the early sierra adventure games, or what the heck why do we even have graphics, text adventures are the best :D
    I actually have a lot of love for the Infocom classics. :)
  • edited July 2009
    I actually have a lot of love for the Infocom classics. :)

    Me too and they are true classics, wonder if they will ever come back, so many great stories and material to just chuck away for ever. If adventure carries on this ascension thanks to TTG/LA etc, well who knows. I see bits of Infocom in all kinds of books, games, films and culture, such a waste to say it's confined to the annals of gaming. Infocom was a giant. My thought over the last couple of years is that we are seeing a lot of remakes in the film world (sadly mostly poor) and I think gaming is the next area where software houses will look to the past for inspiration/remake opportunities, I can see doom1, hexen, original duke, dark forces etc making huge comebacks with new, shiny modern interpretations of ye olde.. won't be bad thing. Of course I cherish new franchises like Bioshock and the ever progressing Half Life etc but if there are great original ideas and content thrown to abandonware, what a waste! A LOT of people have not lived those great classics and they can be reborn.
  • edited July 2009
    me too they should make kids play them in school to learn reading and typing skills.
  • edited July 2009
    Steverin0 wrote: »
    Me too and they are true classics, wonder if they will ever come back, so many great stories and material to just chuck away for ever. If adventure carries on this ascension thanks to TTG/LA etc, well who knows. I see bits of Infocom in all kinds of books, games, films and culture, such a waste to say it's confined to the annals of gaming. Infocom was a giant. My thought over the last couple of years is that we are seeing a lot of remakes in the film world (sadly mostly poor) and I think gaming is the next area where software houses will look to the past for inspiration/remake opportunities, I can see doom1, hexen, original duke, dark forces etc making huge comebacks with new, shiny modern interpretations of ye olde.. won't be bad thing. Of course I cherish new franchises like Bioshock and the ever progressing Half Life etc but if there are great original ideas and content thrown to abandonware, what a waste! A LOT of people have not lived those great classics and they can be reborn.
    Sorry for becoming off topic but this is interesting for some reading this.

    The text adventure genre is very vivid, it just has moved into a different domain, it is now called interactive fiction and there is a competition every year for short adventures (all of them freeware), so there is more than one text adventure coming out every year :)

    Every few years also a commercial game is released... but outside of the if circle it does not make any news.

    Btw. as far as I recall the last Zork text adventure ever released was Zork undiscovered underground it was sort of a gimmick on the Zork Grand Inquisitor CD, I guess most people did not even notice that it was there :-)

    Btw. even the infocom legacy is still alive, the infocom VM is still used as one of the two standard runtime systems for IF games (but with different languages than Infocom used to use to program it)
  • edited July 2009
    werpu wrote: »
    Sorry for becoming off topic but this is interesting for some reading this.

    The text adventure genre is very vivid, it just has moved into a different domain, it is now called interactive fiction and there is a competition every year for short adventures (all of them freeware), so there is more than one text adventure coming out every year :)

    Every few years also a commercial game is released... but outside of the if circle it does not make any news.

    Btw. as far as I recall the last Zork text adventure ever released was Zork undiscovered underground it was sort of a gimmick on the Zork Grand Inquisitor CD, I guess most people did not even notice that it was there :-)

    Btw. even the infocom legacy is still alive, the infocom VM is still used as one of the two standard runtime systems for IF games (but with different languages than Infocom used to use to program it)

    I agree but we're in 2009, text adventure releases would only pander to the extreme niche, the modern generation want a continuation of the whole internet culture - fancy graphics, great sound, nice visual gameplay. You can't serve out a new text infocom type adventure now and expect any modicum of commercial success - we have moved on and even most of the 'old skoolers' appreciate this.
  • edited July 2009
    I miss the choices of verbs one had in the older games most of all, but I can understand why that would be difficult to pull off in a monthly episode. The more ways you have to interact with the environment, the more dialogue has to be written and recorded to put it all together. And it does get tiring to hear over and over again how one cannot interact with an object. "It doesn't seem to open." "I can't pick that up." (I always liked the way S&M Hit the Road handled that particular line) So it makes the game a little easier. Oh well. Less frustration is usually a good thing in a game....

    I for one thought the first episode handled the Monkey Island tone pretty well in general, even if they re-used a character model here or there. I don't think 3D or lack of point-and-click did anything in. Look at Grim Fandango. A great game in spite of a horrible interface.
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