Can't really say that it's a big surprise when the next best selling title is "Reel Fishing", but still: Congratulations to TTG. Hopefully that means that other consoles will get it as well (*cough* PS3).
what IS a surprise is that Reel Fishing is outselling My Life as a Darklord....but then, maybe most people are only buying it because its from the Harvest Moon people? :rolleyes:
I think what is important to note about this is that we now have seen both new Monkey Island titles in at least the top 5 of Steam, Xbox Live Arcade, and WiiWare. It's back. And it feels good.
I think we can thank Yare for the spike in sales of TMI.
After all the gaming sites took something he said out of context to start flame wars, it really seems to have helped sales. They jumped from 11th in the first week of release to first after that "news" was reported.
I think we can thank Yare for the spike in sales of TMI.
After all the gaming sites took something he said out of context to start flame wars, it really seems to have helped sales. They jumped from 11th in the first week of release to first after that "news" was reported.
I'm sorry Donald Trump, but I just think your theory is wrong. Just look at Paris Hilton today.
My guess is it probably took a while for word to get out that Tales was available on the Wii. Casual gamers not checking for the latest releases the moment they come out, and the like.
I'm sorry Donald Trump, but I just think your theory is wrong. Just look at Paris Hilton today.
TMI on the Wii isn't even half as ugly as Paris Hilton, and the people who made it actually possess some talent, whereas Paris Hilton seems to be devoid of talent in every possible way.
That's the difference.
(PS: Sadly people have actually purchased products released by Paris Hilton and watched her shows, which is incredibly depressing to think about.)
Paris Hilton seems to be devoid of talent in every possible way.
I disagree. I think Paris Hilton is amazingly talented at being Paris Hilton. Case in point: A friend of mine was hired to DJ a photo shoot for Paris Hilton, he starts playing some records, and Paris Hilton's all like "No no no no no, Paris Hilton wants to hear Paris Hilton's debut full-length, and ONLY Paris Hilton's debut full-length."
So, to pull something like that off, you must A) be Paris Hilton, record a diabolically evil debut full-length, C) drop a few thousand on a DJ for your two hour photo shoot, and D) make him a glorified mannequin with headphones while you rock out to your diabolically evil debut full length....and have pictures taken of you.
I think we can thank Yare for the spike in sales of TMI.
After all the gaming sites took something he said out of context to start flame wars, it really seems to have helped sales. They jumped from 11th in the first week of release to first after that "news" was reported.
Pale, the ones I saw did not take it out of context.
Now maybe some people read into his statements certain assumptions that may or may not be accurate. And it did start a minor flame war, with overreaction on both sides, I'd say. Some people joined in some unadulterated Wii-bashing (agreeing with the few things Yare said, but perhaps going further than he would as an individual..who knows). Others were ready to stride through the gates of Hell carrying Yare's head on a pike. (Which is uncool. No need to demonize a person.)
But he said what he said. And the sites I saw that referenced it did so accurately.
I also agree with other posters in that I doubt that whole deal had much to do with the bump up in sales. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it doesn't seem likely.
Anyway, congrats TellTale!! I'm really glad to hear that TMI is already doing well for you both on PC and on WiiWare! It's a great game so far!
And Hans, I think you may be mischaracterizing WiiWare, given your comment. WiiWare isn't some doofy little on-line store where a few weirdos purchase crappy games, and TMI is the one bastion of quality on the service. There are many good games on WiiWare, as there are on XBLA and PSN. So let's not diminish TellTale's accomplishment.
But he said what he said. And the sites I saw that referenced it did so accurately.
Context is frequently lost on the Internet, even when something is accurately referenced.
We're a digital distribution company, when we talk about "The Wii" on our company forum, the context means we're talking about the Wii as a platform for digital distribution (WiiWare). The Internet outside of this forum is a different context where "The Wii" means something different.
And Hans, I think you may be mischaracterizing WiiWare, given your comment. WiiWare isn't some doofy little on-line store where a few weirdos purchase crappy games, and TMI is the one bastion of quality on the service. There are many good games on WiiWare, as there are on XBLA and PSN. So let's not diminish TellTale's accomplishment.
I'm not... I simply couldn't help but smile when I read that the next best selling game was a fishing game. It just makes it look funny to somebody who is not familiar with the Wii (and I never claimed I was).
The Wii obviously follows quite different rules than the rest of the gaming industry. And I'm willing to learn, but you've got to allow me a smile every now and then when something that would have seemed entirely ridiculous in a traditional gaming environment happens.
But Hanss, fishing games have been a part of the industry for almost as long as there has been an industry. Now, those games have never been, to my knowledge, huge top sellers. And maybe that's what you're getting at.
But it just seemed dismissive.
"Can't really say that it's a big surprise when the next best selling title is 'Reel Fishing,' , but still: Congratulations to TTG. Hopefully that means that other consoles will get it as well (*cough* PS3)."
On another thread you've wondered if WiiWare has few users, and if a #10 on XBLA or PSN is better than #1 on WiiWare. It's a fair question. But you're basing the speculation on a chart that appears to be a year old. And I'm also not sure how you figured the 100,000 for highest 3rd party game.
I wonder if, since you don't understand this whole Wii thing, you figure it must be small, po-dunkey, and inferior. It's like you're looking for it to be this way. I'm not suggesting that, if true, you're doing it maliciously. But sometimes that's how we humans deal with things we don't understand if we're not careful.
Anyway, whereas fishing in real life does sometimes consist of waiting hours to get a bite, most video game fishing titles don't go for that level of realism. If so...yeah...I don't think many would buy them.
Context is frequently lost on the Internet, even when something is accurately referenced.
We're a digital distribution company, when we talk about "The Wii" on our company forum, the context means we're talking about the Wii as a platform for digital distribution (WiiWare). The Internet outside of this forum is a different context where "The Wii" means something different.
For what it's worth, though you guys do distribute most games digitally, it was not at all (to me at least) clear your iPhone comment was limited to the constraints of WiiWare. The voices and textures are due to size limits, you pointed out explicitly. But the statement you made that folks on the internet had a fit about sounded an awful lot like a general statement (especially since you explicitly mentioned file size as the culprit of two problems, then moved on to discuss frame-rate issues).
Moreover, in your response to me, you stood by the statements, and said that the systems are underpowered, and the Wii memory is small. (As opposed to, "It's not that the system is less powerful in and of itself. I'm not saying that. I want to be clear. We're a digital distribution company. So I'm thinking in those terms. What I am saying is that due to the relative power of the hardware--the small amount of memory in particular--and the restrictions we have in filesize due to Nintendo, the iPhone would be able to run TMI much more smoothly than the Wii does with less effort on our part.")
I'm not trying to bring this up again. And you may just be trying to cover your rear. I understand that to some extent. And I want to be clear that I personally don't want anything bad to happen to you, or TellTale, over the statements made. You folks are a great company that makes great entertainment.
But it looks to me like maybe you're trying to spin what you said, though that totally might not be the case at all.
If you were always saying only that the Wii is less powerful in the sense that due to filesize restrictions it takes more work to get TMI running smoothly on Wii than it would on iPhone, I submit that you didn't do a good job explaining it. That's why folks on the internet were able to take what you said and run with it. But I'm sorry you were misunderstood by so many, myself included.
If on the other hand, you really were talking about basic power, then I say don't spin it. If you still believe it, stand by it if you feel comfortable doing so. If you now think you were wrong, admit it if you'd like. If you think it's not a simple matter of one being more powerful than the other, but that the Wii is more powerful in some areas, whereas the iPhone in more powerful in other(s), claim that if you so choose.
I've recently done some comprehensive R&D for future projects on various systems, and can categorically state that the Wii is approximately equal in power to this device.
I've recently done some comprehensive R&D for future projects on various systems, and can categorically state that the Wii is approximately equal in power to this device.
NOOOOO! You're supposed to wait until chapter 2 is out on Wii to get the sales bump from the bad press!
But Hanss, fishing games have been a part of the industry for almost as long as there has been an industry. Now, those games have never been, to my knowledge, huge top sellers. And maybe that's what you're getting at.
But it just seemed dismissive.
"Can't really say that it's a big surprise when the next best selling title is 'Reel Fishing,' , but still: Congratulations to TTG. Hopefully that means that other consoles will get it as well (*cough* PS3)."
On another thread you've wondered if WiiWare has few users, and if a #10 on XBLA or PSN is better than #1 on WiiWare. It's a fair question. But you're basing the speculation on a chart that appears to be a year old. And I'm also not sure how you figured the 100,000 for highest 3rd party game.
I wonder if, since you don't understand this whole Wii thing, you figure it must be small, po-dunkey, and inferior. It's like you're looking for it to be this way. I'm not suggesting that, if true, you're doing it maliciously. But sometimes that's how we humans deal with things we don't understand if we're not careful.
Anyway, whereas fishing in real life does sometimes consist of waiting hours to get a bite, most video game fishing titles don't go for that level of realism. If so...yeah...I don't think many would buy them.
Again, just "Hans" or "Hans S." if you really, really want to include that second s
I think you're taking it all a bit too serious. What I write here is not what I would write in a scientific article.
If something here looks borderline absurd to me, I mention it, thinking that others may find it funny as well. And in my opinion a fishing game on top of the sales charts qualifies as that.
Also, please don't quote out of context. I was asking for help finding better charts, and just sharing why I was curious about it.
If on the other hand, you really were talking about basic power, then I say don't spin it. If you still believe it, stand by it if you feel comfortable doing so.
Basic power doesn't really mean anything. As I explained before, when you're working with a small amount of storage (disk, RAM, or both), your CPU can suffer greatly as a result. CPU cycles spent on memory-stingy algorithms, loading resources, and decompressing files are CPU cycles you can't spend on your game. If you have more RAM, you can keep more (or all) resources in memory and don't need to touch your (much, much slower) disk as frequently, if ever.
//EDIT
By "Basic power doesn't really mean anything", I mean to say there's not really such a thing as "basic power" to be compared. Lots of details, down to the type of game you decide to make will greatly influence which resources of a system are actually available to you.
Again, that totally makes sense. I take you to be taking option 3. It's not a simple matter of one being more powerful than the other. There are many variables to factor in when programming, regardless of whether we're talking digitally distributed games, or disc based games.
Regarding digitally distributed games in particular, that Nintendo requires the 40mb limit adds yet another wrinkle to the WiiWare juggling act, and exacerbates the difficulties brought about by the other hardware constraints (memory in particular). If you were allowed to use more storage space (like the Apple allows with the iPhone), the memory size wouldn't be as much an issue. If you had more RAM (like the iPhone itself has), storage space limits wouldn't be as much an issue. And if the video output were at a lower resolution (like the iPhone does), storage space limits and amount of RAM would both be less of an issue.
Am I understanding correctly?
But still, I think you can see how, even though the context is the message board of a company that distributes digitally, people aren't crazy for taking what looks like a series of general statements (Y is actually more powerful than Z; I know of no game for system Z that doesn't have issues with hanging; system D is as powerful as a toaster) as general statements, and not as "given what we're trying to do and the constraints we have." I mean, many of us here who frequent the boards, know TTG distributes digitally, aren't trying to generate income through a gaming site, and don't have it in for you, didn't know your statements should be read with those qualifications. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect folks not to know that. And the thing is, when you said you stood by your original statements, you were presumably understanding them in context of "given Wii hardware and WiiWare constraints vs iPhone hardware and AppStore constraints." But we weren't since we didn't know we should have done so originally. Hence, the misunderstanding. (In other words, it's not entirely anyone's 'fault' if one were to think of it in those terms.) But I'm probably not typing anything you don't already know.
Nevertheless, I am truly sorry you were misunderstood. Hope your life hasn't been hurt by it.
Hans,
I took the extra s has part of your name. That's my fault.
I'm not trying to take it too seriously. I have a tendency to be very analytical. Sorry if it's coming across as intensity.
I guess it's just there's been so much anti-Nintendo bias coming from folks for over a decade now, that I think people sometimes have it without even realizing it. And I want people to come together and get along (even if at the end of the day they don't agree). A key to that is minimizing bias. It's like being preemptive peacemakers.
For example, that a fishing game being popular as borderline absurd. I'm just saying, while I was surprised to see Reel Fishing as number 1, I feel like "borderline absurd" is an exaggeration. It was unexpected, sure. But "borderline absurd?" I personally don't think so. I'm not calling you out or anything. I'm not saying you're evil. I'm not even saying in the grand scheme of things it's a big deal. It's just an example. You off-hand exaggerated in a somewhat derogatory way, probably without thinking about it. And I think that a person does that enough times and it suggests he/she may have some level of bias.
Regarding the sales chart, I wasn't trying to quote you out of context. Sorry if it came across that way. My point was a logic one. You were considering that maybe WiWare has significantly smaller sales than the other systems. But your reason for bringing up the possibility was a chart, which I was pointing out appears to be at least a year old...and thus even if it was a clear chart would be outdated and not a reliable source of info to even base a hunch on. You said you want more info, and I completely believe you honestly mean that. Never meant to suggest you weren't.
I hear what you're saying about not writing here like it's a scientific article. Like I say, I'm just analytical. But I also strongly believe that we as humans can cultivate more disciplined thinking through practice. And that such critical thinking skills are useful in daily life. In the end, this subject isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But we can still work on being reasonable here in matters that ultimately aren't super important, so that when dealing with the big issues in life with others--the ones that do matter in the grand scheme of things--we'll be more reasonable and fair than we would have been without the practice. And in that way, we're preemptively being peacemakers.
And I think most would agree, the world could definitely deal with some more peace and harmony...even when folks disagree.
Anyway, congrats to TTG for the performance of ToMI on Wii. A rub on the face for the closed-minded PC gamers who doesn't appreciate the charm of Wii beyond what is written on paper.
Nevertheless, I am truly sorry you were misunderstood. Hope your life hasn't been hurt by it.
Don't worry about it! There was quite literally no harm done.
I'm going to try to be more careful about how I phrase things, but I'm not a PR person and my posts don't filter through PR. Occasionally I will string words together in a way that doesn't accurately represent my intent.
But I'd rather be taken out of context every so often than be unable to interact with our fans and customers.
I'm not trying to take it too seriously. I have a tendency to be very analytical. Sorry if it's coming across as intensity.
What you've got to remember is that we're on a gaming board here. Normal rationale only applies to a certain extent. Even if system A is better than system B, there's no real reason why we should care, other than foolish pride.
The Wii is a toy. So what? So is the XBox, the PS3 and most of those overpowered PCs. We take a certain amount of pride in thinking that we made "the better choice" when we decided on our system, but that's not rational either.
I guess it's just there's been so much anti-Nintendo bias coming from folks for over a decade now, that I think people sometimes have it without even realizing it.
Well, at least I can say that I wasn't Anti-Nintendo back then. Owned every Nintendo system up to the N64 (and loved all of them). The Wii is a bit difficult for me as it looks like a step backwards in most categories.
And I want people to come together and get along (even if at the end of the day they don't agree). A key to that is minimizing bias. It's like being preemptive peacemakers..
Whatever I say to that will make me look like an a**. But honestly, this forum is a playfield. We don't want it to get too peaceful. A forum like this is not purely for informational purposes, it's a place where we can hang out, have fun and have endless discussions about nothing important.
For example, that a fishing game being popular as borderline absurd. I'm just saying, while I was surprised to see Reel Fishing as number 1, I feel like "borderline absurd" is an exaggeration. It was unexpected, sure. But "borderline absurd?" I personally don't think so. I'm not calling you out or anything. I'm not saying you're evil. I'm not even saying in the grand scheme of things it's a big deal. It's just an example. You off-hand exaggerated in a somewhat derogatory way, probably without thinking about it. And I think that a person does that enough times and it suggests he/she may have some level of bias.
Of course I have a bias, and so do you. We all do. Heck, that's part of what defines us as humans. We always see things from our perspective. And where I'm standing, a fishing game on top of the sales charts is borderline absurd. A fisherman may disagree, and then he can try to convince me that it isn't. But if I never said anything both of us would just live with our bias and what good is that.
Regarding the sales chart, I wasn't trying to quote you out of context. Sorry if it came across that way. My point was a logic one. You were considering that maybe WiWare has significantly smaller sales than the other systems. But your reason for bringing up the possibility was a chart, which I was pointing out appears to be at least a year old...and thus even if it was a clear chart would be outdated and not a reliable source of info to even base a hunch on. You said you want more info, and I completely believe you honestly mean that. Never meant to suggest you weren't.
It was really the best I could find. Of course my bias comes into play here as well and it at least partially fuels my desire to know, but I am also really curious how the market realities are.
I hear what you're saying about not writing here like it's a scientific article. Like I say, I'm just analytical. But I also strongly believe that we as humans can cultivate more disciplined thinking through practice. And that such critical thinking skills are useful in daily life. In the end, this subject isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But we can still work on being reasonable here in matters that ultimately aren't super important, so that when dealing with the big issues in life with others--the ones that do matter in the grand scheme of things--we'll be more reasonable and fair than we would have been without the practice. And in that way, we're preemptively being peacemakers.
And I think most would agree, the world could definitely deal with some more peace and harmony...even when folks disagree.
Don't think you know me by looking at what I write here I'm probably much more rational than you think in real life, but when I'm here, I just want to have fun.
I've got 360, PS3, Wii, a decent PC, PSP, and DS, and Wii and DS are my least favorite and least used systems of all of them. Most of the time my Wii isn't even hooked up, and I don't remember the last time I turned on my DS (Probably whenever the last Castlevania came out for it).
I don't know what any of this has to do with anything, but I strongly dislike the Wii, even though I own it and like 25 games for it. It has nothing to do with Nintendo, I just can't stand the controls for most things. They are nice for rail shooters, but not as nice as a light gun. Oh and the TMI controls are great.
I've got 360, PS3, Wii, a decent PC, PSP, and DS, and Wii and DS are my least favorite and least used systems of all of them. Most of the time my Wii isn't even hooked up, and I don't remember the last time I turned on my DS (Probably whenever the last Castlevania came out for it).
I don't know what any of this has to do with anything, but I strongly dislike the Wii, even though I own it and like 25 games for it. It has nothing to do with Nintendo, I just can't stand the controls for most things. They are nice for rail shooters, but not as nice as a light gun. Oh and the TMI controls are great.
I'm very sorry you feel this way, in my opinion, the DS is the greatest portable system ever! And its also the home of Phoenix Wright, Trace Memory, Hotel Dusk and Theresia, among other things.
I'm very sorry you feel this way, in my opinion, the DS is the greatest portable system ever! And its also the home of Phoenix Wright, Trace Memory, Hotel Dusk and Theresia, among other things.
I've never tried any of those games, and I don't know that I'd buy any of them without having tried them. I have seen some screenshots and stuff, but that really doesn't mean much to me, heh.
I've never tried any of those games, and I don't know that I'd buy any of them without having tried them. I have seen some screenshots and stuff, but that really doesn't mean much to me, heh.
I dunno what to tell you, im not giving up my copies or anything like that.. try looking up gameplay vids on youtube?
I think we can thank Yare for the spike in sales of TMI.
After all the gaming sites took something he said out of context to start flame wars, it really seems to have helped sales. They jumped from 11th in the first week of release to first after that "news" was reported.
I really feel sorry for Yare in the context he said it it was definitely right.
First he probably was one of those who had to fight to get the game into the rigid 40mb which was a close to impossible task. Then he was one of those who got smacked on the head that the game was not running like a DVD version, then out of frustration he made a comment what definitely was right in the context of the thread and in his experiences he probably had encountered and then gaming sites were picking it up and were starting flamewars all over the place.
I am not imaging what the aftermath for him Telltale internally was, probably a severe smack on his head verbally by his boss.
I dont want to imagine the frustration of the entire team who had to fight with the limit of 40mb (been there done that in different situations). I dont think it was the developers who had to do it who made the decision to sell it over wii-ware. My personal opinion still is the game would have been better off as a DVD release instead of opting for WiiWare, the Wii itself is perfectly capabale to handle the game decently, but not with the Wiiware limit on top of it. It is close to a technical miracle that they even pulled off what they did.
(Speaking as a developer myself)
But I agree in the end it probably even helped the sales of the game on the Wii because even negative propaganda still is propaganda.
In the end, as a developer, I want to congratulate the team that you guys were able to pull it off to run it in 40mb, this is really a masterpiece of optimization, I probably not even would have tried.
Context is frequently lost on the Internet, even when something is accurately referenced.
We're a digital distribution company, when we talk about "The Wii" on our company forum, the context means we're talking about the Wii as a platform for digital distribution (WiiWare). The Internet outside of this forum is a different context where "The Wii" means something different.
I think the problem is also that console people are very attached emotionally to the platform they use. You never can underestimate the heat a criticism against a console can cause.
It always has been like that, if you can remember the ATARI vs. Commodore fan flamewars of the 80s, and also the Nintendo vs. Sega flamewars.
Then he was one of those who got smacked on the head that the game was not running like a DVD version, then out of frustration he made a comment what definitely was right in the context of the thread and in his experiences he probably had encountered and then gaming sites were picking it up and were starting flamewars all over the place.
People certainly directed comments to me about the port quality, but it wasn't frustrating because I wasn't involved in porting this product. I simply failed to convey my point clearly.
In the end, as a developer, I want to congratulate the team that you guys were able to pull it off to run it in 40mb, this is really a masterpiece of optimization, I probably not even would have tried.
Our technology will only get better over time! (Hopefully the 40mb limit will get raised, too)
Our technology will only get better over time! (Hopefully the 40mb limit will get raised, too)
Given the past experiences with Nintendo I would not put high hopes on it. Nintendo usually is very slow in changing things on existing consoles, if they ever do it at all. Just look at the pesky friends code system, or how unused many of the ports on the Gamecube were and on the Wii still are.
Now that sounds interesting, can you post some of them?
Several jokes were made about the Wii/iPhone thing making it into actual news media, like if it was the leading story on The View or Oprah or something.
There were suggestions for various photos or videos to post on the blog. A picture of me tied up in a chair with coworkers pointing Wii Remotes menacingly at me. A video of me opening up a Wii to find an iPhone inside connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. My boss (Kevin) even suggested taking a picture of my chalk outline in the parking lot (with chalk iPhone outline!) and giving it the caption "Yare has been taken care of."
I'm probably forgetting some, but I'm sure my coworkers will remind me.
There were suggestions for various photos or videos to post on the blog. A picture of me tied up in a chair with coworkers pointing Wii Remotes menacingly at me. A video of me opening up a Wii to find an iPhone inside connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. My boss (Kevin) even suggested taking a picture of my chalk outline in the parking lot (with chalk iPhone outline!) and giving it the caption "Yare has been taken care of."
Hehe that sounds really funny you guys should do something like that
Several jokes were made about the Wii/iPhone thing making it into actual news media, like if it was the leading story on The View or Oprah or something.
There were suggestions for various photos or videos to post on the blog. A picture of me tied up in a chair with coworkers pointing Wii Remotes menacingly at me. A video of me opening up a Wii to find an iPhone inside connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. My boss (Kevin) even suggested taking a picture of my chalk outline in the parking lot (with chalk iPhone outline!) and giving it the caption "Yare has been taken care of."
I'm probably forgetting some, but I'm sure my coworkers will remind me.
Comments
After all the gaming sites took something he said out of context to start flame wars, it really seems to have helped sales. They jumped from 11th in the first week of release to first after that "news" was reported.
USA:
1 (11) - Tales of Monkey Island: Chapter 1
Sweden:
1 (-) - Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 1: Launch of the Screaming Narwhal
Germany:
1 (13) Tales of Monkey Island 1
UK:
1 (-) - Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 1
Canada:
1 (6) - Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 1
And though I haven't posted it in that thread,
New Zealand:
1 (-) Tales of Monkey Island Ch 1
TMI on the Wii isn't even half as ugly as Paris Hilton, and the people who made it actually possess some talent, whereas Paris Hilton seems to be devoid of talent in every possible way.
That's the difference.
(PS: Sadly people have actually purchased products released by Paris Hilton and watched her shows, which is incredibly depressing to think about.)
Ha!
I disagree. I think Paris Hilton is amazingly talented at being Paris Hilton. Case in point: A friend of mine was hired to DJ a photo shoot for Paris Hilton, he starts playing some records, and Paris Hilton's all like "No no no no no, Paris Hilton wants to hear Paris Hilton's debut full-length, and ONLY Paris Hilton's debut full-length."
So, to pull something like that off, you must A) be Paris Hilton,
Pale, the ones I saw did not take it out of context.
Now maybe some people read into his statements certain assumptions that may or may not be accurate. And it did start a minor flame war, with overreaction on both sides, I'd say. Some people joined in some unadulterated Wii-bashing (agreeing with the few things Yare said, but perhaps going further than he would as an individual..who knows). Others were ready to stride through the gates of Hell carrying Yare's head on a pike. (Which is uncool. No need to demonize a person.)
But he said what he said. And the sites I saw that referenced it did so accurately.
I also agree with other posters in that I doubt that whole deal had much to do with the bump up in sales. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it doesn't seem likely.
Anyway, congrats TellTale!! I'm really glad to hear that TMI is already doing well for you both on PC and on WiiWare! It's a great game so far!
And Hans, I think you may be mischaracterizing WiiWare, given your comment. WiiWare isn't some doofy little on-line store where a few weirdos purchase crappy games, and TMI is the one bastion of quality on the service. There are many good games on WiiWare, as there are on XBLA and PSN. So let's not diminish TellTale's accomplishment.
Context is frequently lost on the Internet, even when something is accurately referenced.
We're a digital distribution company, when we talk about "The Wii" on our company forum, the context means we're talking about the Wii as a platform for digital distribution (WiiWare). The Internet outside of this forum is a different context where "The Wii" means something different.
I learned that the hard way when I started that Verne Troyer fansite.
I'm not... I simply couldn't help but smile when I read that the next best selling game was a fishing game. It just makes it look funny to somebody who is not familiar with the Wii (and I never claimed I was).
The Wii obviously follows quite different rules than the rest of the gaming industry. And I'm willing to learn, but you've got to allow me a smile every now and then when something that would have seemed entirely ridiculous in a traditional gaming environment happens.
Doing a virtual version of a "sport" that effectively consists mainly of doing nothing seems really strange to me.
But it just seemed dismissive.
"Can't really say that it's a big surprise when the next best selling title is 'Reel Fishing,' , but still: Congratulations to TTG. Hopefully that means that other consoles will get it as well (*cough* PS3)."
On another thread you've wondered if WiiWare has few users, and if a #10 on XBLA or PSN is better than #1 on WiiWare. It's a fair question. But you're basing the speculation on a chart that appears to be a year old. And I'm also not sure how you figured the 100,000 for highest 3rd party game.
I wonder if, since you don't understand this whole Wii thing, you figure it must be small, po-dunkey, and inferior. It's like you're looking for it to be this way. I'm not suggesting that, if true, you're doing it maliciously. But sometimes that's how we humans deal with things we don't understand if we're not careful.
Anyway, whereas fishing in real life does sometimes consist of waiting hours to get a bite, most video game fishing titles don't go for that level of realism. If so...yeah...I don't think many would buy them.
For what it's worth, though you guys do distribute most games digitally, it was not at all (to me at least) clear your iPhone comment was limited to the constraints of WiiWare. The voices and textures are due to size limits, you pointed out explicitly. But the statement you made that folks on the internet had a fit about sounded an awful lot like a general statement (especially since you explicitly mentioned file size as the culprit of two problems, then moved on to discuss frame-rate issues).
Moreover, in your response to me, you stood by the statements, and said that the systems are underpowered, and the Wii memory is small. (As opposed to, "It's not that the system is less powerful in and of itself. I'm not saying that. I want to be clear. We're a digital distribution company. So I'm thinking in those terms. What I am saying is that due to the relative power of the hardware--the small amount of memory in particular--and the restrictions we have in filesize due to Nintendo, the iPhone would be able to run TMI much more smoothly than the Wii does with less effort on our part.")
I'm not trying to bring this up again. And you may just be trying to cover your rear. I understand that to some extent. And I want to be clear that I personally don't want anything bad to happen to you, or TellTale, over the statements made. You folks are a great company that makes great entertainment.
But it looks to me like maybe you're trying to spin what you said, though that totally might not be the case at all.
If you were always saying only that the Wii is less powerful in the sense that due to filesize restrictions it takes more work to get TMI running smoothly on Wii than it would on iPhone, I submit that you didn't do a good job explaining it. That's why folks on the internet were able to take what you said and run with it. But I'm sorry you were misunderstood by so many, myself included.
If on the other hand, you really were talking about basic power, then I say don't spin it. If you still believe it, stand by it if you feel comfortable doing so. If you now think you were wrong, admit it if you'd like. If you think it's not a simple matter of one being more powerful than the other, but that the Wii is more powerful in some areas, whereas the iPhone in more powerful in other(s), claim that if you so choose.
NOOOOO! You're supposed to wait until chapter 2 is out on Wii to get the sales bump from the bad press!
Again, just "Hans" or "Hans S." if you really, really want to include that second s
I think you're taking it all a bit too serious. What I write here is not what I would write in a scientific article.
If something here looks borderline absurd to me, I mention it, thinking that others may find it funny as well. And in my opinion a fishing game on top of the sales charts qualifies as that.
Also, please don't quote out of context. I was asking for help finding better charts, and just sharing why I was curious about it.
Basic power doesn't really mean anything. As I explained before, when you're working with a small amount of storage (disk, RAM, or both), your CPU can suffer greatly as a result. CPU cycles spent on memory-stingy algorithms, loading resources, and decompressing files are CPU cycles you can't spend on your game. If you have more RAM, you can keep more (or all) resources in memory and don't need to touch your (much, much slower) disk as frequently, if ever.
//EDIT
By "Basic power doesn't really mean anything", I mean to say there's not really such a thing as "basic power" to be compared. Lots of details, down to the type of game you decide to make will greatly influence which resources of a system are actually available to you.
Again, that totally makes sense. I take you to be taking option 3. It's not a simple matter of one being more powerful than the other. There are many variables to factor in when programming, regardless of whether we're talking digitally distributed games, or disc based games.
Regarding digitally distributed games in particular, that Nintendo requires the 40mb limit adds yet another wrinkle to the WiiWare juggling act, and exacerbates the difficulties brought about by the other hardware constraints (memory in particular). If you were allowed to use more storage space (like the Apple allows with the iPhone), the memory size wouldn't be as much an issue. If you had more RAM (like the iPhone itself has), storage space limits wouldn't be as much an issue. And if the video output were at a lower resolution (like the iPhone does), storage space limits and amount of RAM would both be less of an issue.
Am I understanding correctly?
But still, I think you can see how, even though the context is the message board of a company that distributes digitally, people aren't crazy for taking what looks like a series of general statements (Y is actually more powerful than Z; I know of no game for system Z that doesn't have issues with hanging; system D is as powerful as a toaster) as general statements, and not as "given what we're trying to do and the constraints we have." I mean, many of us here who frequent the boards, know TTG distributes digitally, aren't trying to generate income through a gaming site, and don't have it in for you, didn't know your statements should be read with those qualifications. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect folks not to know that. And the thing is, when you said you stood by your original statements, you were presumably understanding them in context of "given Wii hardware and WiiWare constraints vs iPhone hardware and AppStore constraints." But we weren't since we didn't know we should have done so originally. Hence, the misunderstanding. (In other words, it's not entirely anyone's 'fault' if one were to think of it in those terms.) But I'm probably not typing anything you don't already know.
Nevertheless, I am truly sorry you were misunderstood. Hope your life hasn't been hurt by it.
Hans,
I took the extra s has part of your name. That's my fault.
I'm not trying to take it too seriously. I have a tendency to be very analytical. Sorry if it's coming across as intensity.
I guess it's just there's been so much anti-Nintendo bias coming from folks for over a decade now, that I think people sometimes have it without even realizing it. And I want people to come together and get along (even if at the end of the day they don't agree). A key to that is minimizing bias. It's like being preemptive peacemakers.
For example, that a fishing game being popular as borderline absurd. I'm just saying, while I was surprised to see Reel Fishing as number 1, I feel like "borderline absurd" is an exaggeration. It was unexpected, sure. But "borderline absurd?" I personally don't think so. I'm not calling you out or anything. I'm not saying you're evil. I'm not even saying in the grand scheme of things it's a big deal. It's just an example. You off-hand exaggerated in a somewhat derogatory way, probably without thinking about it. And I think that a person does that enough times and it suggests he/she may have some level of bias.
Regarding the sales chart, I wasn't trying to quote you out of context. Sorry if it came across that way. My point was a logic one. You were considering that maybe WiWare has significantly smaller sales than the other systems. But your reason for bringing up the possibility was a chart, which I was pointing out appears to be at least a year old...and thus even if it was a clear chart would be outdated and not a reliable source of info to even base a hunch on. You said you want more info, and I completely believe you honestly mean that. Never meant to suggest you weren't.
I hear what you're saying about not writing here like it's a scientific article. Like I say, I'm just analytical. But I also strongly believe that we as humans can cultivate more disciplined thinking through practice. And that such critical thinking skills are useful in daily life. In the end, this subject isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. But we can still work on being reasonable here in matters that ultimately aren't super important, so that when dealing with the big issues in life with others--the ones that do matter in the grand scheme of things--we'll be more reasonable and fair than we would have been without the practice. And in that way, we're preemptively being peacemakers.
And I think most would agree, the world could definitely deal with some more peace and harmony...even when folks disagree.
Anyway, congrats to TTG for the performance of ToMI on Wii. A rub on the face for the closed-minded PC gamers who doesn't appreciate the charm of Wii beyond what is written on paper.
Don't worry about it! There was quite literally no harm done.
I'm going to try to be more careful about how I phrase things, but I'm not a PR person and my posts don't filter through PR. Occasionally I will string words together in a way that doesn't accurately represent my intent.
But I'd rather be taken out of context every so often than be unable to interact with our fans and customers.
What you've got to remember is that we're on a gaming board here. Normal rationale only applies to a certain extent. Even if system A is better than system B, there's no real reason why we should care, other than foolish pride.
The Wii is a toy. So what? So is the XBox, the PS3 and most of those overpowered PCs. We take a certain amount of pride in thinking that we made "the better choice" when we decided on our system, but that's not rational either.
Well, at least I can say that I wasn't Anti-Nintendo back then. Owned every Nintendo system up to the N64 (and loved all of them). The Wii is a bit difficult for me as it looks like a step backwards in most categories.
Whatever I say to that will make me look like an a**. But honestly, this forum is a playfield. We don't want it to get too peaceful. A forum like this is not purely for informational purposes, it's a place where we can hang out, have fun and have endless discussions about nothing important.
Of course I have a bias, and so do you. We all do. Heck, that's part of what defines us as humans. We always see things from our perspective. And where I'm standing, a fishing game on top of the sales charts is borderline absurd. A fisherman may disagree, and then he can try to convince me that it isn't. But if I never said anything both of us would just live with our bias and what good is that.
It was really the best I could find. Of course my bias comes into play here as well and it at least partially fuels my desire to know, but I am also really curious how the market realities are.
Don't think you know me by looking at what I write here
I don't know what any of this has to do with anything, but I strongly dislike the Wii, even though I own it and like 25 games for it. It has nothing to do with Nintendo, I just can't stand the controls for most things. They are nice for rail shooters, but not as nice as a light gun. Oh and the TMI controls are great.
I'm very sorry you feel this way, in my opinion, the DS is the greatest portable system ever! And its also the home of Phoenix Wright, Trace Memory, Hotel Dusk and Theresia, among other things.
I've never tried any of those games, and I don't know that I'd buy any of them without having tried them. I have seen some screenshots and stuff, but that really doesn't mean much to me, heh.
I dunno what to tell you, im not giving up my copies or anything like that.. try looking up gameplay vids on youtube?
I really feel sorry for Yare in the context he said it it was definitely right.
First he probably was one of those who had to fight to get the game into the rigid 40mb which was a close to impossible task. Then he was one of those who got smacked on the head that the game was not running like a DVD version, then out of frustration he made a comment what definitely was right in the context of the thread and in his experiences he probably had encountered and then gaming sites were picking it up and were starting flamewars all over the place.
I am not imaging what the aftermath for him Telltale internally was, probably a severe smack on his head verbally by his boss.
I dont want to imagine the frustration of the entire team who had to fight with the limit of 40mb (been there done that in different situations). I dont think it was the developers who had to do it who made the decision to sell it over wii-ware. My personal opinion still is the game would have been better off as a DVD release instead of opting for WiiWare, the Wii itself is perfectly capabale to handle the game decently, but not with the Wiiware limit on top of it. It is close to a technical miracle that they even pulled off what they did.
(Speaking as a developer myself)
But I agree in the end it probably even helped the sales of the game on the Wii because even negative propaganda still is propaganda.
In the end, as a developer, I want to congratulate the team that you guys were able to pull it off to run it in 40mb, this is really a masterpiece of optimization, I probably not even would have tried.
I think the problem is also that console people are very attached emotionally to the platform they use. You never can underestimate the heat a criticism against a console can cause.
It always has been like that, if you can remember the ATARI vs. Commodore fan flamewars of the 80s, and also the Nintendo vs. Sega flamewars.
Nope! That's a different part of the engineering team. I just like to explain technical things to our fans.
People certainly directed comments to me about the port quality, but it wasn't frustrating because I wasn't involved in porting this product. I simply failed to convey my point clearly.
Not so much. The reaction in the office was basically "lol, Internet", and several jokes were made at my expense.
Our technology will only get better over time! (Hopefully the 40mb limit will get raised, too)
Now that sounds interesting, can you post some of them?
Given the past experiences with Nintendo I would not put high hopes on it. Nintendo usually is very slow in changing things on existing consoles, if they ever do it at all. Just look at the pesky friends code system, or how unused many of the ports on the Gamecube were and on the Wii still are.
Several jokes were made about the Wii/iPhone thing making it into actual news media, like if it was the leading story on The View or Oprah or something.
There were suggestions for various photos or videos to post on the blog. A picture of me tied up in a chair with coworkers pointing Wii Remotes menacingly at me. A video of me opening up a Wii to find an iPhone inside connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. My boss (Kevin) even suggested taking a picture of my chalk outline in the parking lot (with chalk iPhone outline!) and giving it the caption "Yare has been taken care of."
I'm probably forgetting some, but I'm sure my coworkers will remind me.
Hehe that sounds really funny you guys should do something like that
I love Telltale.