Don't worry about it! There was quite literally no harm done.
I'm going to try to be more careful about how I phrase things, but I'm not a PR person and my posts don't filter through PR. Occasionally I will string words together in a way that doesn't accurately represent my intent.
But I'd rather be taken out of context every so often than be unable to interact with our fans and customers.
I think it's great that you folks interact with your consumers like this. We get insight from you guys. You guys get feedback from us. And hopefully it makes us all seem a bit more real to each other.
Don't think you know me by looking at what I write here I'm probably much more rational than you think in real life, but when I'm here, I just want to have fun.
Oh, I don't think I know ya. To really get to know someone via the internet is possible I'd think, but takes a great deal of time. I truly don't have an opinion of how rational you are 'in real life.' I wouldn't presume to.
Regarding us all having biases, I agree. But I also think it's something we need to minimize. I know I have biases, for example. But I don't want to have them...at least, not if those biases are going to affect my search for truth or my treatment of others.
Regarding that chart, I wasn't trying to suggest you were lazy, or sinister, in using that old chart. I never thought you were purposefully using bad information when you had access to better info. I was only saying that given how old it is, it doesn't really tell us much useful, yet you didn't seem to notice that fact when using it to speculate that WiiWare might have significantly lower sales.
And regarding being here wanting to have fun. I understand that. Whereas I want to be the same person here as I am everywhere else. I don't want to stop being as rational just because of where I am. That's not an indictment of your approach. Just stating where I'm coming from.
Strangely though, outside the Internet though I'm still as analytical, I don't think I talk as much. Hmm...maybe I do. Have to ask me wife. ...Probably wouldn't like the answer though.
First he probably was one of those who had to fight to get the game into the rigid 40mb which was a close to impossible task. Then he was one of those who got smacked on the head that the game was not running like a DVD version, then out of frustration he made a comment what definitely was right in the context of the thread and in his experiences he probably had encountered and then gaming sites were picking it up and were starting flamewars all over the place.
Not trying to be sarcastic here. Just saying. The beauty of dialogue on a message board is that you don't have to guess what happened in the internet conversations. They are accessible here. No need for guess work when it comes to that part of things. Either way, sounds like you've had some unpleasant production experiences. Sorry to hear that.
PaleMan, you're of course entitled to your likes and dislikes. But I just can't understand actively disliking a system. Not judging. Just saying, I don't understand where you're coming from.
I understand that you don't like the controls on most Wii games. And controls are important. I actually find I like Wii controls better than XBox360 and PS3 controls most of the time. They are just much easier for me to use with precision. (Case in point, Call of Duty on PS360, I stink. Call of Duty on Wii, I'm pretty good.) But I don't actively dislike those systems.
There may have been systems I haven't really cared for (i.e., may have had some things I liked, but not enough to say I actively like the system)...maybe. There have definitely been systems I've not cared much about (i.e. didn't actively like them, didn't buy one, didn't keep up with how it was doing and what was on it). But none I've actively disliked. Never been like, "I just really dislike this thing." That's just me though.
And I agree that TMI has good control on the Wii. To me that's one of the strongest advantages the Wii version has over the PC version.
There may have been systems I haven't really cared for (i.e., may have had some things I liked, but not enough to say I actively like the system)...maybe. There have definitely been systems I've not cared much about (i.e. didn't actively like them, didn't buy one, didn't keep up with how it was doing and what was on it). But none I've actively disliked. Never been like, "I just really dislike this thing." That's just me though.
What I mean is that all the games I hear people raving about for the Wii are games that I really couldn't care less about (Mario, Smash Brothers, etc.), and any game I've cared about on the Wii has had terrible controls, to the point that I can't even stand playing them. Like Metroid Prime 3 and Far Cry Vengeance, two of the titles I bought the Wii in the first place for, and they're both basically unplayable for me.
I understand that you don't like the controls on most Wii games. And controls are important. I actually find I like Wii controls better than XBox360 and PS3 controls most of the time. They are just much easier for me to use with precision. (Case in point, Call of Duty on PS360, I stink. Call of Duty on Wii, I'm pretty good.) But I don't actively dislike those systems.
I'm exactly the opposite, I am really good at shooters on PS3/360, and I am awful at them on Wii. It irritates me beyond all reason that if my cursor goes just barely off screen, my character either wildly spins around, or the Wiimote takes 2 seconds to figure out where it is again when I point it back at the screen. It might be a byproduct of how close I have to sit to my TV when I play it (small room) but it's annoying nonetheless.
Another thing, I was playing through Broken Sword: Director's Cut on my Wii last week and enjoying it pretty thoroughly... until I got to the puzzle where you
use the stone cylinder in the slot to spell out SDSSDSS
, it uses the gyros and you have to rotate the Wiimote to solve the combination lock. After about half an hour of fighting with the horrendously bad gyros (and nearly chucking my Wiimote out the window several times), I finally got it by turning it as slowly as humanly possible.
I have never been more frustrated with a controller in my entire life than I was during that puzzle, and it turned me off from finishing the director's cut.
Basically, I've had far more bad experiences with Wii controls than good ones, and if there's ever a choice between the PS3/360 version of a game and the Wii version, I will never pick the Wii version.
Basic power doesn't really mean anything. As I explained before, when you're working with a small amount of storage (disk, RAM, or both), your CPU can suffer greatly as a result. CPU cycles spent on memory-stingy algorithms, loading resources, and decompressing files are CPU cycles you can't spend on your game. If you have more RAM, you can keep more (or all) resources in memory and don't need to touch your (much, much slower) disk as frequently, if ever.
Nonsense, have you seen what farbrausch can do with 64k? You had 650 times that amount
(and no, I'm not serious in the slightest, though you might want to consider hiring some Germans).
Farbrausch uses procedural textures and models in all of their products, which is a great idea for demos, but if you want to use it in a game it's a butt-load of work. Basically, you have something like a poor-man's photoshop in which you record all your steps and you only save those steps. The engine can than recreate the textures/models from that data.
Also keep in mind that this system needs a whole lot of processing power (or long loading times and a lot of memory).
Besides, it's not that easy to describe a character as a mathematical formula. Abstract shapes: no problem, but actual characters!?!
The technological explanation wasn't really meant to educate you, more as an explanation so that others who join the discussion know what they're actually dealing with
What you mean is something else: The 2D representation you get is of course mathematically derived from the 3D data. But the 3D data is stored as a series of vertices (points where edges meet).
There are some transformations going on in normal games as well, for example when a character lifts an arm, there's usually no separate model for each frame, but just for the control vertices ("bones"), which then in turn deform the model accordingly, but at some point there's a 3D model which a designer created and then saved, much like an image for 2D.
What Farbrausch is doing is that they produce that they don't include any of this literal representation at all, just the formula which describes the generation. It's pretty much the "bones" principle mentioned above, but taken to a much more extreme level.
Hey, didn't even know there was a specific term for this (a colleague of mine actually wrote such a compressor once... but it really was WAY too slow for practical use: think days per megabyte).
But it's still a bit different from what you'd normally describe as procedural textures, as it still tries to recreate the data using a fixed set of functions that really have nothing in common with those used to produce the image. So while it functions relatively similar, it's employed very differently.
Besides, it's not that easy to describe a character as a mathematical formula. Abstract shapes: no problem, but actual characters!?!
It's easier if the character is a tentacle or pacman, using solids of revolution. But that are different games and i hope telltale never does a pacman game
I think you're right in that it may be a function of how close you're sitting to your TV. I mean, MP3 is touted by many reviewers and players alike as having great controls. If for you the game is unplayable, then either your tastes differ significantly from many may other folks, or there's something different about your experience that's making it stink. Playing too close to the TV can make IR-based Wii controls get kind of wonky. So that might be it. Regarding pointing off the screen...you just have to not point off the screen. And regarding the character spinning wildly when you do...does MP3 have customizable options for that sort of thing? I figure it must not, because I figure if it did you'd have tried fiddling with them already. But I know games like CoD: WaW and The Conduit do.
But to each his own. As I say, I've found that for FPS-type games with practice I can now get much more precision out of a Wiimote than I ever could out of a dual-analog setup. Of course, I actually only have one hand (true story), so my experience is naturally going to be a bit different than your average person's. But I've seen some two-handed folks say they're in the same boat. Having used the Wiimote enough, they feel they can be more precise with it than dual-analog. It is a different skill-set though. Neither better nor worse. Just different. Like I say, to each his own.
Comments
I think it's great that you folks interact with your consumers like this. We get insight from you guys. You guys get feedback from us. And hopefully it makes us all seem a bit more real to each other.
Oh, I don't think I know ya. To really get to know someone via the internet is possible I'd think, but takes a great deal of time. I truly don't have an opinion of how rational you are 'in real life.' I wouldn't presume to.
Regarding us all having biases, I agree. But I also think it's something we need to minimize. I know I have biases, for example. But I don't want to have them...at least, not if those biases are going to affect my search for truth or my treatment of others.
Regarding that chart, I wasn't trying to suggest you were lazy, or sinister, in using that old chart. I never thought you were purposefully using bad information when you had access to better info. I was only saying that given how old it is, it doesn't really tell us much useful, yet you didn't seem to notice that fact when using it to speculate that WiiWare might have significantly lower sales.
And regarding being here wanting to have fun. I understand that. Whereas I want to be the same person here as I am everywhere else. I don't want to stop being as rational just because of where I am. That's not an indictment of your approach. Just stating where I'm coming from.
Strangely though, outside the Internet though I'm still as analytical, I don't think I talk as much. Hmm...maybe I do. Have to ask me wife. ...Probably wouldn't like the answer though.
Not trying to be sarcastic here. Just saying. The beauty of dialogue on a message board is that you don't have to guess what happened in the internet conversations. They are accessible here. No need for guess work when it comes to that part of things. Either way, sounds like you've had some unpleasant production experiences. Sorry to hear that.
PaleMan, you're of course entitled to your likes and dislikes. But I just can't understand actively disliking a system. Not judging. Just saying, I don't understand where you're coming from.
I understand that you don't like the controls on most Wii games. And controls are important. I actually find I like Wii controls better than XBox360 and PS3 controls most of the time. They are just much easier for me to use with precision. (Case in point, Call of Duty on PS360, I stink. Call of Duty on Wii, I'm pretty good.) But I don't actively dislike those systems.
There may have been systems I haven't really cared for (i.e., may have had some things I liked, but not enough to say I actively like the system)...maybe. There have definitely been systems I've not cared much about (i.e. didn't actively like them, didn't buy one, didn't keep up with how it was doing and what was on it). But none I've actively disliked. Never been like, "I just really dislike this thing." That's just me though.
And I agree that TMI has good control on the Wii. To me that's one of the strongest advantages the Wii version has over the PC version.
What I mean is that all the games I hear people raving about for the Wii are games that I really couldn't care less about (Mario, Smash Brothers, etc.), and any game I've cared about on the Wii has had terrible controls, to the point that I can't even stand playing them. Like Metroid Prime 3 and Far Cry Vengeance, two of the titles I bought the Wii in the first place for, and they're both basically unplayable for me.
I'm exactly the opposite, I am really good at shooters on PS3/360, and I am awful at them on Wii. It irritates me beyond all reason that if my cursor goes just barely off screen, my character either wildly spins around, or the Wiimote takes 2 seconds to figure out where it is again when I point it back at the screen. It might be a byproduct of how close I have to sit to my TV when I play it (small room) but it's annoying nonetheless.
Another thing, I was playing through Broken Sword: Director's Cut on my Wii last week and enjoying it pretty thoroughly... until I got to the puzzle where you
I have never been more frustrated with a controller in my entire life than I was during that puzzle, and it turned me off from finishing the director's cut.
Basically, I've had far more bad experiences with Wii controls than good ones, and if there's ever a choice between the PS3/360 version of a game and the Wii version, I will never pick the Wii version.
Nonsense, have you seen what farbrausch can do with 64k? You had 650 times that amount
(and no, I'm not serious in the slightest, though you might want to consider hiring some Germans).
Also keep in mind that this system needs a whole lot of processing power (or long loading times and a lot of memory).
Besides, it's not that easy to describe a character as a mathematical formula. Abstract shapes: no problem, but actual characters!?!
And yeah, again, I don't need the technical explanation, I do understand and meant it as a joke. Not that what they do isn't an amazing feat.
This 4K blows my mind, too.
Haven't seen that one yet... niiiiice.
There are some transformations going on in normal games as well, for example when a character lifts an arm, there's usually no separate model for each frame, but just for the control vertices ("bones"), which then in turn deform the model accordingly, but at some point there's a 3D model which a designer created and then saved, much like an image for 2D.
What Farbrausch is doing is that they produce that they don't include any of this literal representation at all, just the formula which describes the generation. It's pretty much the "bones" principle mentioned above, but taken to a much more extreme level.
But it's still a bit different from what you'd normally describe as procedural textures, as it still tries to recreate the data using a fixed set of functions that really have nothing in common with those used to produce the image. So while it functions relatively similar, it's employed very differently.
It's easier if the character is a tentacle or pacman, using solids of revolution. But that are different games and i hope telltale never does a pacman game
I think you're right in that it may be a function of how close you're sitting to your TV. I mean, MP3 is touted by many reviewers and players alike as having great controls. If for you the game is unplayable, then either your tastes differ significantly from many may other folks, or there's something different about your experience that's making it stink. Playing too close to the TV can make IR-based Wii controls get kind of wonky. So that might be it. Regarding pointing off the screen...you just have to not point off the screen. And regarding the character spinning wildly when you do...does MP3 have customizable options for that sort of thing? I figure it must not, because I figure if it did you'd have tried fiddling with them already. But I know games like CoD: WaW and The Conduit do.
But to each his own. As I say, I've found that for FPS-type games with practice I can now get much more precision out of a Wiimote than I ever could out of a dual-analog setup. Of course, I actually only have one hand (true story), so my experience is naturally going to be a bit different than your average person's. But I've seen some two-handed folks say they're in the same boat. Having used the Wiimote enough, they feel they can be more precise with it than dual-analog. It is a different skill-set though. Neither better nor worse. Just different. Like I say, to each his own.
http://wiiware.nintendolife.com/news/2009/08/top_20_wiiware_games_in_usa_12th_aug
Wahoo!!