One of the complaints of No Going Back was that the Russian Group had little point to their presence, which isn't helped by the fact that no one actually dies by their hands. I've seen some people single out Mike as the person who should've died, which I didn't really agree with since, with his original backstory and subplot unused in the final game, the only things of note that he does in the story is help out the Group with his strength and eventually attempts to free Arvo from Kenny.
However, with the possibility of his death with the story carrying on the same basic way on the tables, I thought of a few alternatives in mind as to who else could've done what he did in the penultimate scene? : Overwhelmed Youths: What's that? A legitimate moral dilemma and personal choice? Hero or Flake?: Without the ice bucket challenge. Guilty Screwups: A few recent suggestions. Shitbirds of a feather fucku together: The idea I referenced. Damn Junkies: Semi-canon anyway. The Lazy and the Lame: Villains team up and Slip back into evil. Shady Teens with Insecurities: Another random possibility.
Note: This was copied from a random post I did in my episode rewrite thread.
I don't buy it. Jane refusing to play the victim is the real reason she (optionally) gets herself killed.
Also you're making it sound like I'm saying Jane is better than Kenny. I'm not, I know she's fucked up. But they both are using Clementine to replace dead loved ones IMO, so Kenny is not better than her either. I feel like she's a bit more honest about herself.
I don't really feel like replying to a huge wall of text, no.
Then how can a conversation/debate even be discussed if you aren’t wil… moreling to reply? I admit that i do always tend to type a lot on these forums but that is only because as a fan, i am very passionate about certain things.
I don't even dislike Kenny, I'm just sick of people sucking his dick.
You should be thankful that the majority on these forums actually don’t like him. I feel the same as you except the other way round, i am sick of nothing but negativity for him when i personally don’t feel it is deserved. I don’t mind people disliking him, however, it is the ones that say disturbing shit like hoping he dies painfully or hates on him for literally every single thing, even when he does good. Those people i cannot stand and are just seriously depressing people.
I'm just going to answer that Jane part, she wanted to prove to Clem Kenny was unstable and s… [view original content]
I don't buy it. Jane refusing to play the victim is the real reason she (optionally) gets herself killed.
There was sufficient evidence to back it up though, i’m not saying it to argue your view, just putting it how it is. They showed Clementine watching Jane put her knife away, Telltale wanted people to think Jane was the victim. Why would Jane suddenly put her weapon away when she already knew Kenny would attack her? She knew exactly how he would react. The proof is here that Jane knew Kenny would try to kill her:
In which Jane responds with:
Both were ending up trying to kill each other at this point but Jane had multiple opportunities to confess to her little stunt which would have stopped the fight. Why didn’t Jane tell the truth once Kenny was backing off and she had the upperhand defending herself with her knife, here for example:
She could have said “the baby is alive, he’s in a car over there, Clem will go and get her. I had to show Clem how you’d react Kenny”. If she had done that then no one would have died would they? At least then Clementine could have decided for herself who to go with instead of being forced to kill Kenny in order to save Jane’s life. My whole point is that the entire scenario to say the least was awful and needless. It could have all been avoided and that’s my argument against it. Jane was playing the victim in order for Clem to stick up for her.
Also you're making it sound like I'm saying Jane is better than Kenny. I'm not, I know she's fucked up.
Well apologies if it sounded like i was. It just appeared that way.
But they both are using Clementine to replace dead loved ones IMO, so Kenny is not better than her either.
Well i partially agree but i also disagree that Kenny was trying to use Clem to replace his son and i’ll explain why. If Clem leaves Jane alone after Kenny dies, Jane begs her not to leave her. If you left Kenny alone after Jane dies however, he doesn't beg her to stay, he asks her to look after herself and the baby and they’d be better off together, same as if they had reached Wellington. Also there was never any time where Kenny forced her to stay around with him, she made that choice on her own. Jane numerous times mentioned how Clem was like her sister, there were many hints suggesting this too, she forced the situation on Clem knowing that Clementine wasn’t prepared to leave Kenny which is why she staged the whole thing and she knew that with Kenny out of the picture, she’d have Clem to herself.
Anyway at the end of it all, it is what it is. Thanks for the reply.
Wasted Characters: Mark
The only reason why Mark was in the first season was to establish the St. Johns cannibal plot which would have originally been done by David Parker, meaning the same thing would have happened besides Mark. Maybe they could have done more than just setting him up to die.
The 400 Days Characters
Not including Bonnie, we never see much of characters from 400 Days. The only time we see them is on top of the Howes Hardware for a split second before escaping and when Clem is stealing the talkies. They could have had the potential of helping Clem and the others escape, finding out about Bonnie letting Clem go, overhearing the escape plan and telling Carver etc
Kenny, Luke and Jane
In season 2 there is a bit of tension between Luke and Kenny, this could have been in my opinion a better ending than the normal Kenny and jane options because I actually cared for both of them a lot more than jane. Instead, Luke dies on the lake no matter what you do.
Arvo
After Bonnie, Mike and Arvo try to steal the truck and leave, we don't find out what happens to him except that Kenny says "They're gone". I'm sure a lot of people would like to see him in return for a later season so Clem can decide his fate.
The only reason why Mark was in the first season was to establish the St. Johns cannibal plot which would have originally been done by David Parker, meaning the same thing would have happened besides Mark. Maybe they could have done more than just setting him up to die.
Actually, Mark was originally added purely to indicate a significant passage of time between the episodes. He was originally gonna be killed by the Save Lot Bandits, either in the scene where he caught the arrow in his arm instead or during the motel raid in the next episode.
Him getting his legs eaten instead of Mr. Parker was meant to make the St. John's secret hit closer to home.
The 400 Days Characters
Yeah, Telltale really overshot their expected resources there. I'd say Becca was the bigger waste out of all them, even if she isn't exactly my favorite.
Kenny, Luke and Jane
I'm pretty sure they really were gonna do that since they saw the response to the Table choice, but they decided Jane would rake in more views or be a great twist or whatever.
...Even though that episode had little to no promotion, as far as I can tell.
Arvo
Arvo is a really wasted character in general. I was originally really on board him returning and being a significant utilized character with what they ended doing with him in Season added to it. But at this point, I think it's safe to say him returning at this point wouldn't really add anything of substance and it's highly unlikely he'd be brought back and used for more than checking a box of a list.
Wasted Characters:
Mark
The only reason why Mark was in the first season was to establish the St. Johns cannibal plot which would have ori… moreginally been done by David Parker, meaning the same thing would have happened besides Mark. Maybe they could have done more than just setting him up to die.
The 400 Days Characters
Not including Bonnie, we never see much of characters from 400 Days. The only time we see them is on top of the Howes Hardware for a split second before escaping and when Clem is stealing the talkies. They could have had the potential of helping Clem and the others escape, finding out about Bonnie letting Clem go, overhearing the escape plan and telling Carver etc
Kenny, Luke and Jane
In season 2 there is a bit of tension between Luke and Kenny, this could have been in my opinion a better ending than the normal Kenny and jane options because I actually cared for both of them a lot more than jane. Instead, Luke dies on t… [view original content]
Actually, Mark was originally added purely to indicate a significant passage of time between the episodes. He was originally gonna be killed by the Save Lot Bandits, either in the scene where he caught the arrow in his arm instead or during the motel raid in the next episode.
Oh right, never knew this, thanks for the information. Guess my first point is irrelevant now then haha.
But at this point, I think it's safe to say him returning at this point wouldn't really add anything of substance and it's highly unlikely he'd be brought back and used for more than checking a box of a list.
That’s true, there has been a whole season since then, probably a bit late.
The only reason why Mark was in the first season was to establish the St. Johns cannibal plot which would have originally been done by David… more Parker, meaning the same thing would have happened besides Mark. Maybe they could have done more than just setting him up to die.
Actually, Mark was originally added purely to indicate a significant passage of time between the episodes. He was originally gonna be killed by the Save Lot Bandits, either in the scene where he caught the arrow in his arm instead or during the motel raid in the next episode.
Him getting his legs eaten instead of Mr. Parker was meant to make the St. John's secret hit closer to home.
The 400 Days Characters
Yeah, Telltale really overshot their expected resources there. I'd say Becca was the bigger waste out of all them, even if she isn't exactly my favorite.
Kenny, Luke and Jane
I'm pretty sure they really were gonna do that since they saw… [view original content]
So I like how, out of nowhere, I see this notification about someone commenting in my Wasted Potential thread.--even better, it's someone posting their own entry on the matter for others to read and think about and maybe even discuss-- and, of course, I decide to promptly check it, ready to see what some member has donated for the community to share...only to see fuckinJane standing there judging me.
Sardonic in-jokes aside, I can on some level agree that I thought there was room for Telltale to do something of substance with my most Hated character since she's determinately along for the ride now. In fact, I was actually expecting and on some miniscule level "hoping" they'd give her considerably more screentime than Kenny in part to correct her thin dollop of development(especially in comparison to him), address the many issues that her character had, and maybe even "redeem" her character.
Instead, they just went "nah" after realizing how superficial her character was and decided to give her what is easily THE worst [Clementine] flashback in Part 1. And through what method do they bump her off aside from getting stabbed ala Saving Private Ryan? The edgy hardcore, too-cool-for-school character finds out that her irresponsible actions have consequences--specifically, she went and got pregnant--so she hangs herself. Like, how long did it take to come up with that emo cliche? The flashback was so awful that it rendered the news that there would another set of flashbacks dedicated to her and Kenny(but not Edith) inherently like putting a bandaid on a stomach wound, despite the fact that she actually could've used it WAY more than Kenny just didn't need it.
For all her haters out there who still spit on her name, I saw potential. Sure, most won't see it. But somehow I did.
Eh...yeah, I don't know what amount of potential in this case, but to each their own.
And I felt Clementine would be the one to sand away her rough edges and she and Clementine would become a fine team.
That's pretty clearly what they were trying to go for in Season 2.
So go ahead and tell me to move on. To let it go.
No. Do what you wanna do.
But...to any and all who've read my viewings and comments, you know I miss a good many of the characters who have died in the game.
True dat.
I feel like someone welcomed me to A New Frontier...
Who the fuck did that? I thought most people were sandy before going in.
Telltale... you broke my heart. And it wasn't the death of Carley, Mark, Chuck, Omid or the people I saw worthy of the Cabin group.
Oh, that's not a very good sign, lol. I hesitate to ask who you're referring at the end there.
It was Jane. A character I came to care about. A character I thought would be full of potential for future episodes.
But I was wrong. But in some way, I forget. It's the Walking Dead world.
There are no favorites,
Eeeeeeeeeh...I can get back to you on that one.
they will die in some way. And there isn't anything we can do about it. Aside from writing tales which will hopefully mend our hearts and play them out in a more fitting and thoughtful way. That's all we as fans can do.
But in the end, it's my fault.
Why blame yourself when you can blame CanadaTelltale?
It's my fault for believing in her.
I guess, but don't linger on such a thought. You were just trying to think positive.
It's my fault for thinking she had strength she didn't.
...Moving on.
And it's my fault for giving a damn.
Yeah, it definitely feels like after a while. #FinalSeasonHype?
******PS This is not at all meant to be disrespectful or offensive to you and your personal feelings. It's just my one cent on the matter, is all.
Thank you for somehow understanding. I was just in one of my moods.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. leafs_nation has read my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
So I like how, out of nowhere, I see this notification about someone commenting in my Wasted Potential thread.--even better, it's someone po… moresting their own entry on the matter for others to read and think about and maybe even discuss-- and, of course, I decide to promptly check it, ready to see what some member has donated for the community to share...only to see fuckin Jane standing there judging me.
Sardonic in-jokes aside, I can on some level agree that I thought there was room for Telltale to do something of substance with my most Hated character since she's determinately along for the ride now. In fact, I was actually expecting and on some miniscule level "hoping" they'd give her considerably more screentime than Kenny in part to correct her thin dollop of development(especially in comparison to him), address the many issues that her character had, and maybe even "redeem" her character.
Instead, they just went "nah" after realizi… [view original content]
Thank you for somehow understanding. I was just in one of my moods.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. … more leafs_nation has read my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. leafs_nation has read my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
Cool! Might I suggest you do so in my episode rewrite thread.
This one is meant more for broad explanations on general topics, with some room for suggestion and minute elaboration on personal ideas. That one, on the other hand, was made specifically for grander writeups on any one episode(whether it be a summary or collection of arcs) or overarching character/story arc per post.
Thank you for somehow understanding. I was just in one of my moods.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. … more leafs_nation has read my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
Oh, so that's why I don't see your original post right now! I thought it was might've been The Squidz for a second.
Nah dude, don't block your post. I mean, feel free to edit out anything your don't think is necessary/appropriate to the topic if you absolutely have to, but you shouldn't completely remove your personal thoughts on a matter. The masses deserves to hear your voice!
To be fair, Kenny’s flashback was kinda terrible also. For a character who has been with clem since the beginning, his death was pretty terrible. Kenny somehow manages to escape a horde of walkers in an enclosed alley way in season 1 but dies cause he didn’t have a seat belt on?
So I like how, out of nowhere, I see this notification about someone commenting in my Wasted Potential thread.--even better, it's someone po… moresting their own entry on the matter for others to read and think about and maybe even discuss-- and, of course, I decide to promptly check it, ready to see what some member has donated for the community to share...only to see fuckin Jane standing there judging me.
Sardonic in-jokes aside, I can on some level agree that I thought there was room for Telltale to do something of substance with my most Hated character since she's determinately along for the ride now. In fact, I was actually expecting and on some miniscule level "hoping" they'd give her considerably more screentime than Kenny in part to correct her thin dollop of development(especially in comparison to him), address the many issues that her character had, and maybe even "redeem" her character.
Instead, they just went "nah" after realizi… [view original content]
Actually, I seem to be a bit of an odd man out on that note: not only did I find Kenny's flashback to be contender for 2nd best, but I actually thought his circumstances around his death was really clever.
Granted, it's not quite what I was expecting/would've done and I was honestly never really a fan of the hotheaded redneck, so I guess it makes sense that it came off the way it did to me.
To be fair, Kenny’s flashback was kinda terrible also. For a character who has been with clem since the beginning, his death was pretty terr… moreible. Kenny somehow manages to escape a horde of walkers in an enclosed alley way in season 1 but dies cause he didn’t have a seat belt on?
Fair enough, just thought he would have died protecting Clementine and AJ like a badass instead of flying out of a car window. And it probably seemed this way to me because well, Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
I find Kenny's flashback to be contender for 2nd best
Since that one isn't your favourite, whats your first?
Actually, I seem to be a bit of an odd man out on that note: not only did I find Kenny's flashback to be contender for 2nd best, but I actua… morelly thought his circumstances around his death was really clever.
Granted, it's not quite what I was expecting/would've done and I was honestly never really a fan of the hotheaded redneck, so I guess it makes sense that it came off the way it did to me.
Fair enough, just thought he would have died protecting Clementine and AJ like a badass instead of flying out of a car window. And it probably seemed this way to me because well, Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
Ugh, see, the term "Blaze of Glory" was what I saw flying around a couple of times on the road to "Season 3"/ANF and I honestly just quietly roll my eyes at that notion.
Realistically, most of the ways his character was resolved in Season 2 suggested a more nuanced, solemn(not the word I really wanted to use, dadgummit) final destination for his character would've been far more appropriate/in theme and it's honestly the general type of beginning-end I would've given him.
Besides, he technically did die so they could live, hence me saying it was a clever middleground. He just did so while being a half-paralyzed crash dummy.
Since that one isn't your favourite, whats your first?
Well, first of all, "favorite" is very much a stretch since I don't really care for those flashbacks in general. But on the note of which is the best, I'd have to say the Alone ending's flashback by default.
Fair enough, just thought he would have died protecting Clementine and AJ like a badass instead of flying out of a car window. And it probab… morely seemed this way to me because well, Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
I find Kenny's flashback to be contender for 2nd best
Since that one isn't your favourite, whats your first?
Fair enough, just thought he would have died protecting Clementine and AJ like a badass instead of flying out of a car window. And it probab… morely seemed this way to me because well, Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
Ugh, see, the term "Blaze of Glory" was what I saw flying around a couple of times on the road to "Season 3"/ANF and I honestly just quietly roll my eyes at that notion.
Realistically, most of the ways his character was resolved in Season 2 suggested a more nuanced, solemn(not the word I really wanted to use, dadgummit) final destination for his character would've been far more appropriate/in theme and it's honestly the general type of beginning-end I would've given him.
Besides, he technically did die so they could live, hence me saying it was a clever middleground. He just did so while being a half-paralyzed crash dummy.
Since that one isn't your favourite, whats your first?
Well, first of all, "favorite" is… [view original content]
I'll say. But really, it's the car accident itself that makes that death so distinct.
The one where she has the car door accident? They did a good job at making me cringe, so yeah I agree.
Ew, that part can be taken or left depending on your personally level of squeamish(and yes, it got me too).
What makes that flashback automatically sufficient is that it didn't have to waste time with 2 year old baggage that honestly has little to do with what game beyond concerns. With that out of the way, it actually had to put all of its focus on Clementine and AJ. As the flashback associated with the multiple pathway Alone Ending, it primarily sets out to deconstruct it and show just how Clementine taking control of her life by killing/ditch a volatile redneck and/or a cold-blooded butch meant having to deal with trials that come with being in the wilderness herself. Hell, we see her point blank telling AJ that they have to kill bunny rabbits in order to eat or they'll continue to starve. And then, after shutting him up in a car to keep him from scaring off her next target, Clementine has to deal with attacking walkers. And of course, this leads to the fucked up moment where she gets the door slammed on her hand pretty brutally and has to defend herself in that crippling pain before discovering that that bad timing cost her at least one figure segment.
Teleporting walkers aside, it's a realistic view into how someone would have to struggle in their survival, albeit a pretty blunt one.
He just did so while being a half-paralyzed crash dummy.
Yes, kind of ironic as saving somebody goes.
But on the note of which… more is the best, I'd have to say the Alone ending's flashback by default.
The one where she has the car door accident? They did a good job at making me cringe, so yeah I agree.
Look, I'm not the writer of this scene so I can't say exactly what she's thinking. I've said before to DabidRG: even though I like Jane, I still think this scene was stupid if for no other reason than the hide baby plan just seems to come out of nowhere.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter" and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her. It's easy to look at something like that fight with an outside perspective and say what the RATIONAL thing to do is, but you know it's not that easy.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong. She's trying to prove the point now instead of later. But I think doing it right now in the middle of a snowstorm was pretty stupid (how convenient that the snowstorm just ended as soon as the fight started though amirite?)
I don't buy it. Jane refusing to play the victim is the real reason she (optionally) gets herself killed.
There was sufficient evide… morence to back it up though, i’m not saying it to argue your view, just putting it how it is. They showed Clementine watching Jane put her knife away, Telltale wanted people to think Jane was the victim. Why would Jane suddenly put her weapon away when she already knew Kenny would attack her? She knew exactly how he would react. The proof is here that Jane knew Kenny would try to kill her:
In which Jane responds with:
Both were ending up trying to kill each other at this point but Jane had multiple opportunities to confess to her little stunt which would have stopped the fight. Why didn’t Jane tell the truth once Kenny was backing off and she had the upperhand defending herself with her knife, here for example:
She could have said “the baby is alive, he’s in a car over there, Clem will g… [view original content]
I think Jane was really stupid in that scene. AJ, apart from Clementine, was one of the only kind of ‘family’ Kenny had left so obviously Jane indicating he’s dead would obviously set him off. Kenny already had to deal with Katjaa, Sarita and Duck nevermind AJ.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong
She may have been trying to prove this now instead of later, but at the same time she intentionally put AJ in danger, which was really unnecessary.
Look, I'm not the writer of this scene so I can't say exactly what she's thinking. I've said before to DabidRG: even though I like Jane, I s… moretill think this scene was stupid if for no other reason than the hide baby plan just seems to come out of nowhere.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter" and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her. It's easy to look at something like that fight with an outside perspective and say what the RATIONAL thing to do is, but you know it's not that easy.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong. She's trying to prove the point now instead of later. But I think doing it right now in the middle of a snowstorm was pretty stupid (how convenient that the snowstorm just ended as soon as the fight started though amirite?)
so obviously Jane indicating he’s dead would obviously set him off.
Yeah... that's the whole point.
she intentionally put AJ in danger, which was really unnecessary.
The writing is so dodgy, it's hard to tell if that's even the case. Jane says he was never in any danger. Clem says he was. No one says anything further. You know what's dangerous? Getting shot when you're a petite little girl with no doctors around, but Clem seems to shrug it off just fine and walk through a damn blizzard. Stuff like AJ hidden in the truck just doesn't hit as hard as it should because of unrealistic shit like that.
I'd like to think that Jane could have developed into something better, a mother figure or even just a sister figure, before season 3 literally strangled her.
Kenny I don't see ever getting better. The man has lapses of good, and then he snaps again. He was never going to be whole again after his family died. He needed to die. He cheated death in season 1 already.
And Jane is just more pragmatic, while Kenny is so reckless. Who's better for Clem? Yeah, let's take the girl who just got shot and walk through frozen wilderness trying to find some mythical safe place. It's ridiculous. Jane had the right ideas for survival. From a practical perspective and from an in-game/story one, I think choosing her is the best.
I think Jane was really stupid in that scene. AJ, apart from Clementine, was one of the only kind of ‘family’ Kenny had left so obviously Ja… morene indicating he’s dead would obviously set him off. Kenny already had to deal with Katjaa, Sarita and Duck nevermind AJ.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong
She may have been trying to prove this now instead of later, but at the same time she intentionally put AJ in danger, which was really unnecessary.
Just what I have to say.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter"
Lol well what a strange thing to say as banter. Ha it wasn’t though, fact is knew how he’d react which is why she did what she did.
and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her.
Oh so what about “before” she had the knife bearing down on her? Why not confess what she did after she’d slashed him and he started backing away from her? She had the upperhand at that point and could have easily said it then? She could have said “AJ is alive, in the car over there, Clem will get him, i had to show her how you’d react.” Didn’t i mention this before to you? I’m sure I already did.
Anyway i am going to agree that we both felt the writing for it was god awful and so many things didn’t make sense or were rushed badly with plot holes etc.
Look, I'm not the writer of this scene so I can't say exactly what she's thinking. I've said before to DabidRG: even though I like Jane, I s… moretill think this scene was stupid if for no other reason than the hide baby plan just seems to come out of nowhere.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter" and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her. It's easy to look at something like that fight with an outside perspective and say what the RATIONAL thing to do is, but you know it's not that easy.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong. She's trying to prove the point now instead of later. But I think doing it right now in the middle of a snowstorm was pretty stupid (how convenient that the snowstorm just ended as soon as the fight started though amirite?)
Here's something insightful to do: Choose the character you personally feel to be the most wasted in each Season/Installment? Ties and Honorable Mentions are welcome and encouraged for the sake of it.
Thank you for somehow understanding.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. leafs_nation has rea… mored my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
Cool! Might I suggest you do so in my episode rewrite thread.
This one is meant more for broad explanations on general topics, with some room for suggestion and minute elaboration on personal ideas. That one, on the other hand, was made specifically for grander writeups on any one episode(whether it be a summary or collection of arcs) or overarching character/story arc per post.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter"
Lol well what a strange thing to say a… mores banter. Ha it wasn’t though, fact is knew how he’d react which is why she did what she did.
and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her.
Oh so what about “before” she had the knife bearing down on her? Why not confess what she did after she’d slashed him and he started backing away from her? She had the upperhand at that point and could have easily said it then? She could have said “AJ is alive, in the car over there, Clem will get him, i had to show her how you’d react.” Didn’t i mention this before to you? I’m sure I already did.
Anyway i am going to agree that we both felt the writing for it was god awful and so many things didn’t make sense or were rushed badly with plot holes etc.
Jane was supposed to leave in Episode 4 and not come back but the only reason she did is because Telltale got butthurt that fans worked out there would be a showdown between Luke and Kenny and rewrote the last episode. They were wanting to build to a fight between them ever since episode 2 and you saw the arguments between them in episode 4.
The second half of Season 2 was written terribly though. To be honest I only liked Episode 1 and the ending of Episode 2 and 5 from S2. Everything else wasn’t great at all for a number of reasons
Jane was supposed to leave in Episode 4 and not come back but the only reason she did is because Telltale got butthurt that fans worked out there would be a showdown between Luke and Kenny and rewrote the last episode. They were wanting to build to a fight between them ever since episode 2 and you saw the arguments between them in episode 4.
It's worth noting that there are some who believe it may have been because Telltale weren't confident they could pull off the climactic fight in a way that believably involved Luke and have the choice be relatively balanced between the two(actually three) sides. So they subbed in the more cold-blooded and controversial Jane and later made Kenny the undisputed winner/killer of the fight to accomplish that.
Well that and Jane was a[nother] pretty blatant Creator's Pet who they decided to suddenly give top billing in the finale because she's totally what most of the crowd wanted to see.
The second half of Season 2 was written terribly though.
Yes. Yes it was. In Harm's Way is still the most disappointing episode in the game series, from where I stand.
That's not to say there were some good moments and interesting ideas there, it's just that the general product was relatively lacking.
Jane was supposed to leave in Episode 4 and not come back but the only reason she did is because Telltale got butthurt that fans worked out … morethere would be a showdown between Luke and Kenny and rewrote the last episode. They were wanting to build to a fight between them ever since episode 2 and you saw the arguments between them in episode 4.
The second half of Season 2 was written terribly though. To be honest I only liked Episode 1 and the ending of Episode 2 and 5 from S2. Everything else wasn’t great at all for a number of reasons
Think I'm gonna post some personal answers real quick:
Season 1: Still probably no one.
400 Days: (Later on) Becca. Honorable Mentions: Shel and Russell.
Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention: 60% of the cast, really, but I'll highlight Arvo and Carlos.
Michonne: (If it counts)Norma. Honorable Mentions: Alex and maybe Gabby.
A New Frontier: Kate. Honorable Mentions: Shades-Chick and to a lesser extent Max.
Here's something insightful to do: Choose the character you personally feel to be the most wasted in each Season/Installment? Ties and Honorable Mentions are welcome and encouraged for the sake of it.
Think I'm gonna post some personal answers real quick:
Season 1: Still probably no one.
400 Days: (Later on) Becca. Honorable Mentions: S… morehel and Russell.
Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention: 60% of the cast, really, but I'll highlight Arvo and Carlos.
Michonne: (If it counts)Norma. Honorable Mentions: Alex and maybe Gabby.
A New Frontier: Kate. Honorable Mentions: Shades-Chick and to a lesser extent Max.
Season 1: Larry or Ben. Honorable Mention: Katjaa. 400 Days: Shel. Honorable Mention: Russell. Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention:Everybody aside from Kenny Sarita or Carlos. A New Frontier: Eleanor. Honorable Mention: Max or Kate.
Here's something insightful to do: Choose the character you personally feel to be the most wasted in each Season/Installment? Ties and Honorable Mentions are welcome and encouraged for the sake of it.
Yeah, he's more or less the Season 1 character who's death/fate stood out as being odd.
But still, as a testament to Season 1's quality, he is still someone we got a lot of insight on, with his backstory involving his family life before and lonely life after he became a hobo, and even his awkward write off still felt meaningful and had something to say about his mindset.
And as you may recall, he was one of the character I listed as part of my intention to expand on characters who seemed like there should've been more to them, but I honestly harder time thinking of any significant addition to make with his character.
Though now that I've had a little time to think, I do feel we still could've gotten more mileage out of my Jolene.
Oh yeah, I completely overlooked Eleanor! Granted, that's because there were a number of characters I feel should've/could've gotten more fleshing out and plot significance, but still.
Also, it would've been interesting and/or nice to see how Larry's opinion/dynamic with Lee might've change had he not had to be killed by Kenny as well as perhaps seeing how Sarita would've been affected if it was Kenny who died in the escape and/or get more character out of her in general.
Season 1: Larry or Ben. Honorable Mention: Katjaa.
400 Days: Shel. Honorable Mention: Russell.
Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention: Everybody aside from Kenny Sarita or Carlos.
A New Frontier: Eleanor. Honorable Mention: Max or Kate.
Here's something insightful to do: Choose the character you personally feel to be the most wasted in each Season/Installment? Ties and Honorable Mentions are welcome and encouraged for the sake of it.
Given Season 2's later disdainful prejudice towards the soft of heart, disadvantaged disabled, and generally disadvantaged as voiced by the Darwinist Carver and Jane, it was a really peculiar choice to have what is commonly considered to be the Season's 2nd Big Bad be a scrawny teenage boy with a leg brace. When I say peculiar rather than further offensive prejudice, I'm primarily referring to how, in spite of the two Darwinists' absolute/discouraging words regarding the one-armed Reggie and especially the traumatized Sarah, this initially timid and accommodating young Russian became infamous for being the first person to successfully shoot Clementine and is even something of a not completely irrelevant scapegoat for the falling out of what was left of the Howe's Ski Cabin Group--and he even exits stage left(I think)! Given that his Start of Darkness was catalyzed when he was ambushed, disarmed, and determinately robbed by Jane (with Clementine present and playing a significant role herself), it's very odd that both the understandable fear and anger he seemed have for her did not get much if any further development--especially with Jane's past, beliefs, and the things she had done because of them in mind.
Whereas Sarah is ultimately a benign example of Jane's paranoia(or at least, in the likely intentions it is), Arvo on the other hand becomes something resembling a threat because of Jane's methods. By attacking him, Jane is essentially responsible for every bad thing that would happen after Rebecca dies, including the destruction of Arvo's group and Arvo, punch clock or not, is a villain who would grow worse than he likely ever was by the end of the game, which in a way ends up turning her philosophy on its head. This could'veshould've been used to further develop Jane's Fantastic Racism by showing the flaws and potential consequences of that line of thinking. And the obvious consequence would be the fact she earlier pressured Clementine into determinately leaving Sarah behind because she seemingly couldn't comprehend the idea that someone whose lost what they care for could come to accept it and move on with their life(oh, the irony) would come back to indirectly bite her in the ass when Arvo, who goes through a similar lost, ultimately goes dark after apparently accepting it and shoots Clementine when she intervene's in Mike's plan to getaway; in other words, the same logic that she was willing to have Sarah killed over to protect Clementine nearly ended up getting the kid killed for the opposite reason. This is also an example of how Arvo and Natasha's roles as antagonists in spite of being "liabilities" were wasted for similar reasons.
Another aspect of this dynamic that really should've been capitalized on is to show Jane's positive traits by giving her some Pet the Dog/Son-of-a-bitch moments outside of her interest in Clementine (and to a lesser degree, Luke). It's easy to highlight the opposing traits between Jane and Sarah/Arvo but its also worth noting that their issues and actions come from a relatively similar place: their love and lost concerning a close family member, which is even stronger in Arvo's case because they both lost a sister. And one example of how Arvo's complete lack of menace is the fact that, like everyone else, he seemingly forgets that Jane is the catalyst to his problems while holding a grudge against Clementine for shooting his sister. This logic, coming for a guy who saw firsthand that Jane was encouraging Clementine, whose kindness he acknowledges, to determinately rob him, went as far as to angrily argue with Jane for wanting to take the medicine in spite of knowing about his sister, and begins to panic when he realizes that she isn't with the group during the ambush, is never really explained outside of maybe this one background moment and little to nothing else. If this was indeed the intention, this is an example of Jane demonstrating that she really was changing her ways that would've been useful to for us to see firsthand. The same chick who previously encouraged Clementine to give up on the Cabin Group and not to let them drag her down is now playing mediator between her cellmate with skewed priorities and an angry old man she would later fight concerning their treatment of a kid the "old Jane" was not only immediately repulsed by but probably would've kicked the crap out of for going after Clementine for what the "old Jane" did. If you wanna do character development for two characters who are supposed to be "redeeming" themselves, that's fine and in fact would've addressed one of biggest problems with Jane, but it's called "Show, don't Tell," not "Barely Show and sorta Tell"--we need to see that shit!
(Note: Much of this was copied from one of my posts in @Bon-Bon's unexplored relationships thread. So if you see anything that doesn't really add up, that's why.)
As you no doubt know by now, Marianna Garcia is a character many were disappointed to see suddenly shot dead in Part 1 despite her status as a member of the Garcia Familia. While she was a pretty flat character/plot device in the game proper, I do kinda think what little characterization she had can be cobbled together to make something slightly resembling a more defined character out of her. Given that she is enough of a departure from most of the cast to add something small but notable to the group's dynamic(at least in the right story), I believe her primary place in a story would be in acting as a Supporting Character for the rest of the Garcia's, given how non-confrontational and seemingly well-adjusted she is compared to them. With a special distinction to be made regarding her relationship with her older cousinbrother, Gabriel.
Despite not particularly caring for the character myself, I do believe there was indeed some measure of novelty and potential in capitalizing on the existence of a brother and sister dynamic among the Garcias. Given that she is sometimes claimed as being something of [an albeit unbalanced] one by certain people, being a complementary foil to Gabe by acting as his Morality Pet and maybe providing a little Sibling Yin-Yang on occasion.
I definitely wouldn't have minded a flashback/section where Mariana and Gabe directly interacted with each other. I know that the junkyard was apparently gonna be something like that at one point, but I'm really more talking about a scene where they're just being brother and sister, especially since it's not hard to think she was the healthiest and/or most positive relationship he had.
Heck, in a story where Clementine is either distinctly her own separate thing as the co-protagonist or perhaps even a complete nonentity, the whole "Gabentine" thing would be out of the way in favor of making Mariana a far more fleshed out foil to Gabe than she would've been otherwise, his love for his sister(or cousin) would actually create conflict with his idealization of David(because fuck you Clementine, ya goddamn succubus), and the somewhat aborted subplot about him turning out like either David or Javier would get more development.
The menu art for Ties That Bind Part One showcases the family armed to fight off a gang of walkers, with Mariana wielding a square point knife in a reverse grip("sweet little girl" my ass!) while Gabe is holding relatively big axe compared to the one he uses in the game proper. While I'm glad that [latter] detail was changed, it's a bit of a shame that a similar scene didn't happen in the game proper to help establish the Garcias as a lighthearted and somewhat glib but still functionally capable group unto themselves.
I was always under the impression that, while they rarely used it due to their strict routine, Mariana and Gabe had some training for dealing with situations requiring combat, hence why Gabe always had a gun and an axe on him. It Come to think, I suppose it would be something if Gabe got the temper, but Mariana got the killing instinct. If you're into that debatable wankery. And believe or not, despite my reservations with a few of the things involved, I actually would've loved a sequence where the duo start using fuckin tag team tactics on something/someone, possibly during the multiple sided civil war.
(Fun fact: I just realized this was posted on my brother's birthday.)
Comments
Alternative Defectors with Arvo
One of the complaints of No Going Back was that the Russian Group had little point to their presence, which isn't helped by the fact that no one actually dies by their hands. I've seen some people single out Mike as the person who should've died, which I didn't really agree with since, with his original backstory and subplot unused in the final game, the only things of note that he does in the story is help out the Group with his strength and eventually attempts to free Arvo from Kenny.
However, with the possibility of his death with the story carrying on the same basic way on the tables, I thought of a few alternatives in mind as to who else could've done what he did in the penultimate scene? :
Overwhelmed Youths: What's that? A legitimate moral dilemma and personal choice?
Hero or Flake?: Without the ice bucket challenge.
Guilty Screwups: A few recent suggestions.
Shitbirds of a feather fucku together: The idea I referenced.
Damn Junkies: Semi-canon anyway.
The Lazy and the Lame: Villains team up and Slip back into evil.
Shady Teens with Insecurities: Another random possibility.
Note: This was copied from a random post I did in my episode rewrite thread.
You know, I just remember something from Season 1 that was removed in the sequels.
The First Person Shooter segments.
Oh, you mean the ones that didn't work half the time? Yeah, I remember those too.
Sorry, Molly!
Those were fun to play. And what we got instead in the latest game?
Press B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B not to die.
I don't buy it. Jane refusing to play the victim is the real reason she (optionally) gets herself killed.
Also you're making it sound like I'm saying Jane is better than Kenny. I'm not, I know she's fucked up. But they both are using Clementine to replace dead loved ones IMO, so Kenny is not better than her either. I feel like she's a bit more honest about herself.
There was sufficient evidence to back it up though, i’m not saying it to argue your view, just putting it how it is. They showed Clementine watching Jane put her knife away, Telltale wanted people to think Jane was the victim. Why would Jane suddenly put her weapon away when she already knew Kenny would attack her? She knew exactly how he would react. The proof is here that Jane knew Kenny would try to kill her:
In which Jane responds with:
Both were ending up trying to kill each other at this point but Jane had multiple opportunities to confess to her little stunt which would have stopped the fight. Why didn’t Jane tell the truth once Kenny was backing off and she had the upperhand defending herself with her knife, here for example:
She could have said “the baby is alive, he’s in a car over there, Clem will go and get her. I had to show Clem how you’d react Kenny”. If she had done that then no one would have died would they? At least then Clementine could have decided for herself who to go with instead of being forced to kill Kenny in order to save Jane’s life. My whole point is that the entire scenario to say the least was awful and needless. It could have all been avoided and that’s my argument against it. Jane was playing the victim in order for Clem to stick up for her.
Well apologies if it sounded like i was. It just appeared that way.
Well i partially agree but i also disagree that Kenny was trying to use Clem to replace his son and i’ll explain why. If Clem leaves Jane alone after Kenny dies, Jane begs her not to leave her. If you left Kenny alone after Jane dies however, he doesn't beg her to stay, he asks her to look after herself and the baby and they’d be better off together, same as if they had reached Wellington. Also there was never any time where Kenny forced her to stay around with him, she made that choice on her own. Jane numerous times mentioned how Clem was like her sister, there were many hints suggesting this too, she forced the situation on Clem knowing that Clementine wasn’t prepared to leave Kenny which is why she staged the whole thing and she knew that with Kenny out of the picture, she’d have Clem to herself.
Anyway at the end of it all, it is what it is. Thanks for the reply.
Wasted Characters:
Mark
The only reason why Mark was in the first season was to establish the St. Johns cannibal plot which would have originally been done by David Parker, meaning the same thing would have happened besides Mark. Maybe they could have done more than just setting him up to die.
The 400 Days Characters
Not including Bonnie, we never see much of characters from 400 Days. The only time we see them is on top of the Howes Hardware for a split second before escaping and when Clem is stealing the talkies. They could have had the potential of helping Clem and the others escape, finding out about Bonnie letting Clem go, overhearing the escape plan and telling Carver etc
Kenny, Luke and Jane
In season 2 there is a bit of tension between Luke and Kenny, this could have been in my opinion a better ending than the normal Kenny and jane options because I actually cared for both of them a lot more than jane. Instead, Luke dies on the lake no matter what you do.
Arvo
After Bonnie, Mike and Arvo try to steal the truck and leave, we don't find out what happens to him except that Kenny says "They're gone". I'm sure a lot of people would like to see him in return for a later season so Clem can decide his fate.
Actually, Mark was originally added purely to indicate a significant passage of time between the episodes. He was originally gonna be killed by the Save Lot Bandits, either in the scene where he caught the arrow in his arm instead or during the motel raid in the next episode.
Him getting his legs eaten instead of Mr. Parker was meant to make the St. John's secret hit closer to home.
Yeah, Telltale really overshot their expected resources there. I'd say Becca was the bigger waste out of all them, even if she isn't exactly my favorite.
I'm pretty sure they really were gonna do that since they saw the response to the Table choice, but they decided Jane would rake in more views or be a great twist or whatever.
...Even though that episode had little to no promotion, as far as I can tell.
Arvo is a really wasted character in general. I was originally really on board him returning and being a significant utilized character with what they ended doing with him in Season added to it. But at this point, I think it's safe to say him returning at this point wouldn't really add anything of substance and it's highly unlikely he'd be brought back and used for more than checking a box of a list.
Oh right, never knew this, thanks for the information. Guess my first point is irrelevant now then haha.
That’s true, there has been a whole season since then, probably a bit late.
So I like how, out of nowhere, I see this notification about someone commenting in my Wasted Potential thread.--even better, it's someone posting their own entry on the matter for others to read and think about and maybe even discuss-- and, of course, I decide to promptly check it, ready to see what some member has donated for the community to share...only to see fuckin Jane standing there judging me.
Sardonic in-jokes aside, I can on some level agree that I thought there was room for Telltale to do something of substance with my most Hated character since she's determinately along for the ride now. In fact, I was actually expecting and on some miniscule level "hoping" they'd give her considerably more screentime than Kenny in part to correct her thin dollop of development(especially in comparison to him), address the many issues that her character had, and maybe even "redeem" her character.
Instead, they just went "nah" after realizing how superficial her character was and decided to give her what is easily THE worst [Clementine] flashback in Part 1. And through what method do they bump her off aside from getting stabbed ala Saving Private Ryan? The edgy hardcore, too-cool-for-school character finds out that her irresponsible actions have consequences--specifically, she went and got pregnant--so she hangs herself. Like, how long did it take to come up with that emo cliche? The flashback was so awful that it rendered the news that there would another set of flashbacks dedicated to her and Kenny(but not Edith) inherently like putting a bandaid on a stomach wound, despite the fact that she actually could've used it WAY more than Kenny just didn't need it.
Eh...yeah, I don't know what amount of potential in this case, but to each their own.
That's pretty clearly what they were trying to go for in Season 2.
No. Do what you wanna do.
True dat.
Who the fuck did that? I thought most people were sandy before going in.
Oh, that's not a very good sign, lol. I hesitate to ask who you're referring at the end there.
But I was wrong. But in some way, I forget. It's the Walking Dead world.
Eeeeeeeeeh...I can get back to you on that one.
Why blame yourself when you can blame CanadaTelltale?
I guess, but don't linger on such a thought. You were just trying to think positive.
...Moving on.
Yeah, it definitely feels like after a while. #FinalSeasonHype?
******PS This is not at all meant to be disrespectful or offensive to you and your personal feelings. It's just my one cent on the matter, is all.
Thank you for somehow understanding. I was just in one of my moods.
I will do a tale following choosing Jane and letting the family in. leafs_nation has read my ideas and says I have something. I will get to it, but first there are some other tales in my schedule i wish to work on first.
And I was thinking positive. I lost it for a moment when I was writing this. I'm blocking it. It was silly for me to do.
Cool! Might I suggest you do so in my episode rewrite thread.
This one is meant more for broad explanations on general topics, with some room for suggestion and minute elaboration on personal ideas. That one, on the other hand, was made specifically for grander writeups on any one episode(whether it be a summary or collection of arcs) or overarching character/story arc per post.
Oh, so that's why I don't see your original post right now! I thought it was might've been The Squidz for a second.
Nah dude, don't block your post. I mean, feel free to edit out anything your don't think is necessary/appropriate to the topic if you absolutely have to, but you shouldn't completely remove your personal thoughts on a matter. The masses deserves to hear your voice!
To be fair, Kenny’s flashback was kinda terrible also. For a character who has been with clem since the beginning, his death was pretty terrible. Kenny somehow manages to escape a horde of walkers in an enclosed alley way in season 1 but dies cause he didn’t have a seat belt on?
Actually, I seem to be a bit of an odd man out on that note: not only did I find Kenny's flashback to be contender for 2nd best, but I actually thought his circumstances around his death was really clever.
Granted, it's not quite what I was expecting/would've done and I was honestly never really a fan of the hotheaded redneck, so I guess it makes sense that it came off the way it did to me.
Fair enough, just thought he would have died protecting Clementine and AJ like a badass instead of flying out of a car window. And it probably seemed this way to me because well, Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
Since that one isn't your favourite, whats your first?
Ugh, see, the term "Blaze of Glory" was what I saw flying around a couple of times on the road to "Season 3"/ANF and I honestly just quietly roll my eyes at that notion.
Realistically, most of the ways his character was resolved in Season 2 suggested a more nuanced, solemn(not the word I really wanted to use, dadgummit) final destination for his character would've been far more appropriate/in theme and it's honestly the general type of beginning-end I would've given him.
Besides, he technically did die so they could live, hence me saying it was a clever middleground. He just did so while being a half-paralyzed crash dummy.
Well, first of all, "favorite" is very much a stretch since I don't really care for those flashbacks in general. But on the note of which is the best, I'd have to say the Alone ending's flashback by default.
Yes, kind of ironic as saving somebody goes.
The one where she has the car door accident? They did a good job at making me cringe, so yeah I agree.
I'll say. But really, it's the car accident itself that makes that death so distinct.
Ew, that part can be taken or left depending on your personally level of squeamish(and yes, it got me too).
What makes that flashback automatically sufficient is that it didn't have to waste time with 2 year old baggage that honestly has little to do with what game beyond concerns. With that out of the way, it actually had to put all of its focus on Clementine and AJ. As the flashback associated with the multiple pathway Alone Ending, it primarily sets out to deconstruct it and show just how Clementine taking control of her life by killing/ditch a volatile redneck and/or a cold-blooded butch meant having to deal with trials that come with being in the wilderness herself. Hell, we see her point blank telling AJ that they have to kill bunny rabbits in order to eat or they'll continue to starve. And then, after shutting him up in a car to keep him from scaring off her next target, Clementine has to deal with attacking walkers. And of course, this leads to the fucked up moment where she gets the door slammed on her hand pretty brutally and has to defend herself in that crippling pain before discovering that that bad timing cost her at least one figure segment.
Teleporting walkers aside, it's a realistic view into how someone would have to struggle in their survival, albeit a pretty blunt one.
Look, I'm not the writer of this scene so I can't say exactly what she's thinking. I've said before to DabidRG: even though I like Jane, I still think this scene was stupid if for no other reason than the hide baby plan just seems to come out of nowhere.
But as to your post here, the "I knew you would" could just be construed as fighting "banter" and as for not telling Kenny that AJ was alive, Jane probably wasn't thinking too rationally with a knife bearing down on her. It's easy to look at something like that fight with an outside perspective and say what the RATIONAL thing to do is, but you know it's not that easy.
The thing here is that Jane is definitely being manipulative and underhanded, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she's wrong. She's trying to prove the point now instead of later. But I think doing it right now in the middle of a snowstorm was pretty stupid (how convenient that the snowstorm just ended as soon as the fight started though amirite?)
I think Jane was really stupid in that scene. AJ, apart from Clementine, was one of the only kind of ‘family’ Kenny had left so obviously Jane indicating he’s dead would obviously set him off. Kenny already had to deal with Katjaa, Sarita and Duck nevermind AJ.
She may have been trying to prove this now instead of later, but at the same time she intentionally put AJ in danger, which was really unnecessary.
Just what I have to say.
Yeah... that's the whole point.
The writing is so dodgy, it's hard to tell if that's even the case. Jane says he was never in any danger. Clem says he was. No one says anything further. You know what's dangerous? Getting shot when you're a petite little girl with no doctors around, but Clem seems to shrug it off just fine and walk through a damn blizzard. Stuff like AJ hidden in the truck just doesn't hit as hard as it should because of unrealistic shit like that.
I'd like to think that Jane could have developed into something better, a mother figure or even just a sister figure, before season 3 literally strangled her.
Kenny I don't see ever getting better. The man has lapses of good, and then he snaps again. He was never going to be whole again after his family died. He needed to die. He cheated death in season 1 already.
And Jane is just more pragmatic, while Kenny is so reckless. Who's better for Clem? Yeah, let's take the girl who just got shot and walk through frozen wilderness trying to find some mythical safe place. It's ridiculous. Jane had the right ideas for survival. From a practical perspective and from an in-game/story one, I think choosing her is the best.
Lol well what a strange thing to say as banter. Ha it wasn’t though, fact is knew how he’d react which is why she did what she did.
Oh so what about “before” she had the knife bearing down on her? Why not confess what she did after she’d slashed him and he started backing away from her? She had the upperhand at that point and could have easily said it then? She could have said “AJ is alive, in the car over there, Clem will get him, i had to show her how you’d react.” Didn’t i mention this before to you? I’m sure I already did.
Anyway i am going to agree that we both felt the writing for it was god awful and so many things didn’t make sense or were rushed badly with plot holes etc.
Here's something insightful to do: Choose the character you personally feel to be the most wasted in each Season/Installment? Ties and Honorable Mentions are welcome and encouraged for the sake of it.
Query: Where do I find that?
Oh, that's right! It does tend to go dormant for a little while.
Here ya go
Yeah, it was a pretty bad, out of place scene.
Anyway, I'm not even sure if the game itself knows what Jane's plan really was.
Jane was supposed to leave in Episode 4 and not come back but the only reason she did is because Telltale got butthurt that fans worked out there would be a showdown between Luke and Kenny and rewrote the last episode. They were wanting to build to a fight between them ever since episode 2 and you saw the arguments between them in episode 4.
The second half of Season 2 was written terribly though. To be honest I only liked Episode 1 and the ending of Episode 2 and 5 from S2. Everything else wasn’t great at all for a number of reasons
It's worth noting that there are some who believe it may have been because Telltale weren't confident they could pull off the climactic fight in a way that believably involved Luke and have the choice be relatively balanced between the two(actually three) sides. So they subbed in the more cold-blooded and controversial Jane and later made Kenny the undisputed winner/killer of the fight to accomplish that.
Well that and Jane was a[nother] pretty blatant Creator's Pet who they decided to suddenly give top billing in the finale because she's totally what most of the crowd wanted to see.
Yes. Yes it was. In Harm's Way is still the most disappointing episode in the game series, from where I stand.
That's not to say there were some good moments and interesting ideas there, it's just that the general product was relatively lacking.
Think I'm gonna post some personal answers real quick:
Season 1: Still probably no one.
400 Days: (Later on) Becca. Honorable Mentions: Shel and Russell.
Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention: 60% of the cast, really, but I'll highlight Arvo and Carlos.
Michonne: (If it counts)Norma. Honorable Mentions: Alex and maybe Gabby.
A New Frontier: Kate. Honorable Mentions: Shades-Chick and to a lesser extent Max.
Chuck was partially wasted but even his involvment was worth it and had a future effect on Clem. I just wish he’d have had more screen time.
Season 1: Larry or Ben. Honorable Mention: Katjaa.
400 Days: Shel. Honorable Mention: Russell.
Season 2: Sarah. Honorable Mention: Everybody aside from Kenny Sarita or Carlos.
A New Frontier: Eleanor. Honorable Mention: Max or Kate.
Yeah, he's more or less the Season 1 character who's death/fate stood out as being odd.
But still, as a testament to Season 1's quality, he is still someone we got a lot of insight on, with his backstory involving his family life before and lonely life after he became a hobo, and even his awkward write off still felt meaningful and had something to say about his mindset.
And as you may recall, he was one of the character I listed as part of my intention to expand on characters who seemed like there should've been more to them, but I honestly harder time thinking of any significant addition to make with his character.
Though now that I've had a little time to think, I do feel we still could've gotten more mileage out of my Jolene.
Oh yeah, I completely overlooked Eleanor! Granted, that's because there were a number of characters I feel should've/could've gotten more fleshing out and plot significance, but still.
Also, it would've been interesting and/or nice to see how Larry's opinion/dynamic with Lee might've change had he not had to be killed by Kenny as well as perhaps seeing how Sarita would've been affected if it was Kenny who died in the escape and/or get more character out of her in general.
Season 1
Jolene
Honourable mention: Chuck
Season 2
Arvo
Honourable mention: Christa
ANF
Everybody
Clint
Honourable mention: Ava
Liabilities: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
Given Season 2's later disdainful prejudice towards the soft of heart, disadvantaged disabled, and generally disadvantaged as voiced by the Darwinist Carver and Jane, it was a really peculiar choice to have what is commonly considered to be the Season's 2nd Big Bad be a scrawny teenage boy with a leg brace. When I say peculiar rather than further offensive prejudice, I'm primarily referring to how, in spite of the two Darwinists' absolute/discouraging words regarding the one-armed Reggie and especially the traumatized Sarah, this initially timid and accommodating young Russian became infamous for being the first person to successfully shoot Clementine and is even something of a not completely irrelevant scapegoat for the falling out of what was left of the Howe's Ski Cabin Group--and he even exits stage left(I think)! Given that his Start of Darkness was catalyzed when he was ambushed, disarmed, and determinately robbed by Jane (with Clementine present and playing a significant role herself), it's very odd that both the understandable fear and anger he seemed have for her did not get much if any further development--especially with Jane's past, beliefs, and the things she had done because of them in mind.
Whereas Sarah is ultimately a benign example of Jane's paranoia(or at least, in the likely intentions it is), Arvo on the other hand becomes something resembling a threat because of Jane's methods. By attacking him, Jane is essentially responsible for every bad thing that would happen after Rebecca dies, including the destruction of Arvo's group and Arvo, punch clock or not, is a villain who would grow worse than he likely ever was by the end of the game, which in a way ends up turning her philosophy on its head. This could'veshould've been used to further develop Jane's Fantastic Racism by showing the flaws and potential consequences of that line of thinking. And the obvious consequence would be the fact she earlier pressured Clementine into determinately leaving Sarah behind because she seemingly couldn't comprehend the idea that someone whose lost what they care for could come to accept it and move on with their life(oh, the irony) would come back to indirectly bite her in the ass when Arvo, who goes through a similar lost, ultimately goes dark after apparently accepting it and shoots Clementine when she intervene's in Mike's plan to getaway; in other words, the same logic that she was willing to have Sarah killed over to protect Clementine nearly ended up getting the kid killed for the opposite reason. This is also an example of how Arvo and Natasha's roles as antagonists in spite of being "liabilities" were wasted for similar reasons.
Another aspect of this dynamic that really should've been capitalized on is to show Jane's positive traits by giving her some Pet the Dog/Son-of-a-bitch moments outside of her interest in Clementine (and to a lesser degree, Luke). It's easy to highlight the opposing traits between Jane and Sarah/Arvo but its also worth noting that their issues and actions come from a relatively similar place: their love and lost concerning a close family member, which is even stronger in Arvo's case because they both lost a sister. And one example of how Arvo's complete lack of menace is the fact that, like everyone else, he seemingly forgets that Jane is the catalyst to his problems while holding a grudge against Clementine for shooting his sister. This logic, coming for a guy who saw firsthand that Jane was encouraging Clementine, whose kindness he acknowledges, to determinately rob him, went as far as to angrily argue with Jane for wanting to take the medicine in spite of knowing about his sister, and begins to panic when he realizes that she isn't with the group during the ambush, is never really explained outside of maybe this one background moment and little to nothing else. If this was indeed the intention, this is an example of Jane demonstrating that she really was changing her ways that would've been useful to for us to see firsthand. The same chick who previously encouraged Clementine to give up on the Cabin Group and not to let them drag her down is now playing mediator between her cellmate with skewed priorities and an angry old man she would later fight concerning their treatment of a kid the "old Jane" was not only immediately repulsed by but probably would've kicked the crap out of for going after Clementine for what the "old Jane" did. If you wanna do character development for two characters who are supposed to be "redeeming" themselves, that's fine and in fact would've addressed one of biggest problems with Jane, but it's called "Show, don't Tell," not "Barely Show and sorta Tell"--we need to see that shit!
(Note: Much of this was copied from one of my posts in @Bon-Bon's unexplored relationships thread. So if you see anything that doesn't really add up, that's why.)
Not so different after all?
What do you think could've been done with each of these survivors, Aang?
Very true.
Los Lucha García Sibs.
As you no doubt know by now, Marianna Garcia is a character many were disappointed to see suddenly shot dead in Part 1 despite her status as a member of the Garcia Familia. While she was a pretty flat character/plot device in the game proper, I do kinda think what little characterization she had can be cobbled together to make something slightly resembling a more defined character out of her. Given that she is enough of a departure from most of the cast to add something small but notable to the group's dynamic(at least in the right story), I believe her primary place in a story would be in acting as a Supporting Character for the rest of the Garcia's, given how non-confrontational and seemingly well-adjusted she is compared to them. With a special distinction to be made regarding her relationship with her older cousinbrother, Gabriel.
Despite not particularly caring for the character myself, I do believe there was indeed some measure of novelty and potential in capitalizing on the existence of a brother and sister dynamic among the Garcias. Given that she is sometimes claimed as being something of [an albeit unbalanced] one by certain people, being a complementary foil to Gabe by acting as his Morality Pet and maybe providing a little Sibling Yin-Yang on occasion.
I definitely wouldn't have minded a flashback/section where Mariana and Gabe directly interacted with each other. I know that the junkyard was apparently gonna be something like that at one point, but I'm really more talking about a scene where they're just being brother and sister, especially since it's not hard to think she was the healthiest and/or most positive relationship he had.
Heck, in a story where Clementine is either distinctly her own separate thing as the co-protagonist or perhaps even a complete nonentity, the whole "Gabentine" thing would be out of the way in favor of making Mariana a far more fleshed out foil to Gabe than she would've been otherwise, his love for his sister(or cousin) would actually create conflict with his idealization of David(because fuck you Clementine, ya goddamn succubus), and the somewhat aborted subplot about him turning out like either David or Javier would get more development.
The menu art for Ties That Bind Part One showcases the family armed to fight off a gang of walkers, with Mariana wielding a square point knife in a reverse grip("sweet little girl" my ass!) while Gabe is holding relatively big axe compared to the one he uses in the game proper. While I'm glad that [latter] detail was changed, it's a bit of a shame that a similar scene didn't happen in the game proper to help establish the Garcias as a lighthearted and somewhat glib but still functionally capable group unto themselves.
I was always under the impression that, while they rarely used it due to their strict routine, Mariana and Gabe had some training for dealing with situations requiring combat, hence why Gabe always had a gun and an axe on him. It Come to think, I suppose it would be something if Gabe got the temper, but Mariana got the killing instinct. If you're into that debatable wankery. And believe or not, despite my reservations with a few of the things involved, I actually would've loved a sequence where the duo start using fuckin tag team tactics on something/someone, possibly during the multiple sided civil war.
(Fun fact: I just realized this was posted on my brother's birthday.)