Do you think Telltale is slowly improving?
2017 was a rough year for a lot of people and that definitely includes Telltale Games. From having the worst season of The Walking Dead games out there, to a lot of poor sales and criticism all around and then having to fire a quarter of their entire workforce.
It's clear that whether you like them or not, Telltale had a very tough time last year and I'm sure our hearts can go out to those that lost their jobs and the company itself that gave us great titles like The Wolf Among Us, Tales From The Borderlands, and of course The Walking Dead: Season One (I still play all of these to this day). It's hard to believe it's been six years already since the release of the latter (time flies).
But I have been paying careful attention to them to see if their initiative to deliver fewer better games will work out and I'm still on the fence. Batman: The Enemy Within in my opinion has been fantastic so far (no spoilers please since this isn't a Batman: TEW discussion thread...and also I haven't played the fourth episode just yet). And I cannot wait for The Wolf Among Us: Season Two and The Walking Dead: The Final Season.
However, I haven't been keeping up with them too much. What do you guys think? Have they slowly been improving? Or do they have to do a lot more work to even begin the path to improvement?
Comments
It's too early early to tell,what i'm sure of is that Telltale can't do another mistake,who knows maybe this is the last year for Telltale.I mean what happens if the fans are not happy with The Final Season and Wolf among us ? I don't even want to think about it.
I don't know..I'm just being dramatic right now,i'm sure they'll figure something out.Batman is really good so if they put the same quality in The Final Season then it's gonna be good.
If I am correct, the only blunders TTG has output were for the latter half of TWD:S2, GOT, TWD:ANF, and Batman:S1 (bugs in the game). TWD:S1, Minecraft (all episodes), TFTBL, TWAU, Batman:S1 (story), Batman:S2, and GoTG seem like they are at least of good quality. Then again, that means TTG has a 59% success rate. An almost 50/50 chance of a good game isn't something you want as an organization.
I think TTG's issue is with consistency. The rise and fall a bit to frequently. It seems like GoTG and Batman:S2 doing well quality wise, TWD:S4 and TWAU:S2 will definitely determine if this is just another TTG roller coaster ride or if they are really gaining altitude. Only time will tell. I'm a bit on the optimistic side, so I'm hoping for the best.
I've also heard a lot of people complaining about how the subtitles are really bad in their recent games,like a lot of reviews on Steam are saying that the games are good but they're complaining about the french subtitles for example.Don't know about the other countries though.
Edit : People were already talking about it when A New Frontier came out,and it's even worse in Batman.
Eh, I'll pass judgment after the final season drops. ANFs lackluster cast and story has been discussed enough, Batmans twists were laughable at best and a complete butchery of the titular character and what he stands for at worst. S2 doesn't seem much better with their terrible approach with the Joker and other established villains, no idea why DC is still trusting one of their most well known characters with TT.
Batman s2e4 was only 70 minutes so no
*bites tongue*
They are slowing down development and have recognized other areas that need improvement. I'd honestly say yes.
Funny. I've seen lots of people (critics and fans alike) giving Telltale nothing but praise for their interpretation of the Joker.
I had a good laugh explaining S1s twist and their interpretation of the Joker and Quinn with a few friends who are big DC fans last week. So at least the entire debacle resulted in that positive moment.
When it comes to choices - Yes
Guardians, Minecraft 2 and Batman 2 were HUGE improvents story wise compared to Batman 1 and ANF
When It Comes To Graphics - Yes, still needs more work
A lot of people disagree when I say this, but I think Minecraft Story Mode Season 2 was the best telltale game graphics wise. This isn’t because of “breathtaking wader shaders” or anything, the telltale engine just works well with the basic models, textures, and the colorful environments of Minecraft. The big thing to me is that the mediocre animations look natural in Minecraft, unlike that terrible dance animation in Guardians E1. Batman 2 had MUCH better models compared to the first game, but there’s still such a lack of attention to detail. The cheap looking 2D fire, the random areas with no cell shading, the disgusting unpolished shot of (spoilers) after the missile hits it.
https://imgur.com/gallery/zMmUq
Also Guardians and Game Of Thrones art styles were mistakes: the telltale engine DOES not look good when trying to be realistic.
Also like seriously telltale get a physics engine, the 1 frame animation from when Harley (spoilers) shatters the car window is probably laughed at by developers that use Nvidia PhysX
https://imgur.com/gallery/Yjufl
(DO NOT REMOVE THE /GALLERY FROM THIS LINK, I DID IT EARLIER BY ACCIDENT AND IT LEADS TO AN NSFW PHOTO BY COINCIDENCE. I SWEAR I DID NOT MEAN TO DO THAT)
From a choices standpoint- A bit
Telltale choices will probably never be like choose your own adventure books, but I’d rather be with different people in different locations then others rather then having someone feel differently about me.
So were the last two episodes of TWAU. And that was STILL better than TWD in my opinion. Actually Batman S2 E4 was between 70 and 80 minutes long depending on how you play it. Look they're OBVIOUSLY focusing more resources on TWD at the moment.
Can't tell so far. The only real chance for improvement is the new CEO's take on the company and while Batman 2 is something that is being released after him taking the position, it was not a project that begun while he was there, so it's still not likely the new CEO had anything to do with that title and is therefore not really representative.
And in all honesty, while Batman may not be as abhorrent as A New Frontier was, I still find it incredibly unappealing and yet another uninspired game from Telltale. The thing with Telltale is that they haven't innovated at all for 5 years straight. They've released about 10 games with the same damn formula. It's no wonder their games sales are literally 0.5% of what they were when they first released the formula.
The reason why TWD S1 was so damn successful was due to it introducing a brand new game style combined with an incredible, refined and thought-out story. What ruined Telltale was that they literally went mad with the first season's success, and decided to release 10 similar games, with exceptionally short development times, uninspired rushed stories in the time span of 4 years. They completely exhausted the market and just by looking at the sales you could see how people would start progressively losing interest as each game released. People don't like being fed the same thing over and over, Telltale should've understood that and given each game enough time for them to actually be worth playing rather than trying to sell as much as they could without giving a damn about quality.
I have no idea what Telltale can do to make this formula appealing again and losing their reputation as a gaming company which games are just not worth it. Making a masterpiece of TWD's final season would certainly be a start (even though that doesn't seem likely at all). Maybe also starting to introduce some new concepts to their formula in that title (considering it's really the only title people who are not die-hard fans care about). We'll have to see.
I though Telltale's Batman was one of the most original and unique Batman stories ever, and I am sure many people agree with me.
And let’s remember the new CEO is not the only one who will make an improvement possible, we need to have faith in the producers, writers... Hopefully the new season will be much better than ANF. And I don’t think the sales are literally 0.5% of what they were at all
I'm not saying Batman Season 2 was bad. It has consistent writing, defined characters, it may even be a refreshing take on Batman's universe (I don't know, I'm not really the one to judge that) and it is for sure a million times better than ANF, but, fundamentally, it's not something outstanding. It definitely did not blow up as a game and I don't see it staying in people's minds for that long after it finished. Not like The Walking Dead Season 1 did anyways.
I did not pull that number out of anywhere. The Walking Dead S1 sold 2 million copies, not counting other platforms where many other millions got sold. More recent Telltale games average at 10k. It's a crushing difference in sale figures.
Minecraft Story Mode Season Two is right now the worst Telltale Game in sales and it has over 30k on steam, the sales are bad but not as bad as you are saying, I don’t know where you get this numbers
Last time I checked it was 10k, though I admit I do not bother checking frequently. 30k sales are still 1.5% of S1's Steam sales. That is still extremely minuscule.
The Second season of Batman is truly amazing,what they did with the Joker and Harley is completely original,they improved so many things compared to the first season.And the first season was really good too,all i've seen are people complaining about Harley because Dc fans wanted to see the same damn thing they've all seen in other Batman games.
It's one of the best games they've made,they are "slowly improving".You can't tell me people won't remember that.
Once The Walking Dead: A New Frontier ended and we got Guardians of the Galaxy and Batman: The Enemy Within, my faith in Telltale's capabilities started to return, however, I feel like Minecraft: Story Mode Season 2 was overall underwhelming in comparison despite the more mature themes. It feels like every third game is lackluster.
We wont know for a while. I know some people may disagree with what Im about to say but right now Telltale hasn't shown any real massive improvement in my opinion. I dont think we will see real noticable change until Walking Dead 4 and Wolf 2. To sum up Telltale 2017 would be:
ANF was a disappointing mess. GOTG just wasn't interesting and didn't feel like there was a lot of passion in the project, it was kinda generic. Minecraft Story Mode 2 wasnt bad, but it left a lot of Telltale fans disappointed that another Minecraft game was being made so close to after Season 1 ended, plus season 1 getting DLC episodes, so it felt more like any easy to make cash grab for many people. Batman Season 2 however really brought back Telltale in some regard in terms of quality.
However, not to spoil Batman S2, Im worried its going to do what S1 did, where episode 4 is kinda lack luster leading to an episode 5 that feels rushed. (I know a lot of people may not agree with me on this statement for batman S2) So Im a little worried that type of behavior might still happen where there will be an occasional episode thats kinda just quick filler, which is one of the things we ask Telltale not to do.
Other Batman games? You mean the Arkham games, which managed to tell probably the best comic story seen in the gaming format, and one of the better stories seen in games themselves? Just because you're taking liberties with well defined characters popularized and fully realized in other mediums for the sole purpose of flaunting originality doesn't mean you've done a good job handling them. You can tell great stories without straying from the source material to the extent that longtime fans are wondering what they're witnessing. If a DC game about, arguably, it's most popular character isn't aiming to draw in and please DC fans, there's some serious issues with who said game is targeting.
I'm a big fan of the Arkham games.
Well in my opinion Telltale did a good job but Dc fans are always hard to please anyway.
Short....but the pace was on point.
I think so. Batman: The Enemy Within, for example, has been amazing and has been so much more polished than the first season.
I believe they are if we look at Batman: The Enemy Within with its choices and how they carry over it is impressive. Also Guardians of the Galaxy has choices that are really long lasting and change the story a lot. ( I won't spoil them for people who want to play it). Minecraft story mode Season 2 was the same it had really good gameplay and story. I think TellTale has much more room to improve but so far they have done a fantastic job! Keep up the good work TellTale!!!
(?) People will remember that.
If by "people" you mean the most die-hard fans for the game, then sure, those will obviously remember. Thing is, I'm talking about the bigger picture here, the impact this game has on the gaming industry as a whole. And the truth is that it is not remarkable whatsoever. When you have this company who once released a game so grand and remarkable as TWD S1, which won over 100 awards, including GOTY and you look at Batman 2, you see how far they've fallen. This game is absolutely irrelevant to pretty much all the gamers out there, and it's great that you and others find enjoyment in it but you have to understand that Telltale's sales are only waning and waning with each passing title. For as fine as they are, more games like Batman 2 are not enough to stop that effect. What they need is another TWD S1. Something that will shock the industry, ideally a fresh take on the bloody formula and something with a story at least somewhat more remarkable than a rehashed Batman plot and characters.
I don’t think Telltale will ever have another Walking Dead S1 and I also don’t think they have to. Just because something is not so much known and spoken it doesn’t mean it is good or bad, and this doesn't determine how good it is either. And you literally can say every new Batman story is “a rehashed Batman plot”.
I'm just saying The second season of Batman is good,because they improved a lot of things,they probably won't have another big success as TWD S1.
Like Poogers555 said I dont think we will see real noticable change until Walking Dead 4 and Wolf 2.
I'm not advocating that the market always dictates the quality of a product. I'm saying that I, and many others, are bored with what Telltale is releasing these days. It all feels the same and the stories are too comic-y and half baked to actually be taken seriously. The fan outrage, numerous youtubers losing interest and even speaking out against the company and the ever decreasing sales are all kind of an indicator that this might be a pretty widespread sentiment.
Telltale is a company and companies need money to keep themselves afloat. I'm afraid that if they don't release another TWDS1 or even just something a bit more successful than what they're releasing nowdays, the next big news we hear from Telltale will not be more lay-offs, but them actually closing their doors. It is absolutely possible for them to have another success. It doesn't need to be as big, it just needs to be something more than what they're doing right now.
They can still downsize further if it comes to it. Telltale Games had survived just as long before TWDS1 as after. They are also still independent. Unless they announce that they're selling themselves to a mega-publisher, I wouldn't even be concerned. They have started hiring again as well(different positions than those let go). They aren't in dire straits, relax and enjoy.
Just because Episode 4 was around 70 minutes long doesn't mean it was terrible. Plenty of stuff happened in Episode 4. I don't know about you but I would much rather have a 70 minute Episode that set up for what is looking to be an exciting Episode 5 than a 2 hour Episode where barely anything interesting happens. Have a bit of faith in Telltale's efforts. They have been through some rough patches with their games but they do deserve praise for trying and delivering an enjoyable experience to fans.
And you can be successful in telling a rehashed plot in a fresh way. If something is not so much known or spoken despite using an established franchise or character, something's wrong. ANFs trailers all seemed tailored towards an imagined group of new players looking for the awesome fast paced action QTE games are known for, instead of the actual fans. The games reflected that. No game that or company that doesn't know it's audience is going to successfully bring in new fans. Telltale is a company, so yes, they have to bring in something remotely resembling their biggest success instead of releasing games that produce an increasing amount of apathy towards their product, because these products support their continued existence as a company spending money on games that they need to make back in order to keep producing more games. Good, bad, or extremely ill advised and received, two of those things matter, and having the minority in the "good" category in few customers eyes isn't going to magically produce the ability to continue.
Yes I Agree, what exactly is your point? I didnt say anything about ANF and I am pretty sure most people think Telltale's Batman is very good, I have seen a lot of praise in Batman forums. You saying Batman isn’t refreshing and “produce an increasing amount of apathy towards their product” because it is not as popular as TwD is a very stupid statement.
The beauty of the internet is that it's so much easier to walk away from a discussion than it is in person. We don't all have to agree on everything. People have their opinions on the industry and we're all marketing and directing geniuses of course(just ask anybody here!). This is one of those really polarizing topics and it's probably best to just say our pieces and saunter off. At least let's try to be polite to each other about our comments.
I will add one thing: If Telltale stuck to and listened to their demographic, there would never have been The Walking Dead game at all.
So what do we know.
I thought we were talking about TT themselves? You can like Batman all you want man, I don't care. Most people can think Batman is good and praise it on the forums. Most people are a very small percentage of the fan base DC and Batman have amassed. Most people don't really make up a huge percentage of people who are fans of the movies, games, and comics. TT has made a Batman game most fans don't care about, unless they're telltale fans that praise the game on the forums.
You're making this about how much you love Batman and didn't mention ANF. It's about neither of those things. A person arguing that everything's going to be ok because someone's making things they like, success be damned, is making stupid statements. What I am saying, forget about ANF or Batman for a second, is they're taking huge, huge franchises, spending lots of money, and getting little return in the form of sales and fans.
Strangely enough, this is the opposite of what most companies are aiming for. So, yea, alot of people are growing increasingly apathetic to the product(means they don't care), and no matter how much a few people like any particular game, happy thoughts aren't the same as being profitable.
I never said everything is going go be ok only because they are making things I like, I just said success doesn’t mesure quality, but surely Telltale has to make games that sell well and even their last TWD game didn’t sell that much, I agree with you in this point. And Telltale itself is guilty for the poor sales, and we already know Telltale's problems.
And yeah “Just because something is not so much known and spoken it doesn’t mean it is good or bad, and this doesn't determine how good it is either.“, I was talking about Batman in this part, as I was answering IronWoodLover.
Apologies, I wasn't aware you were addressing someone else. I'm not rooting on TT to fail, and I am not at all happy with their Batman series, as I've been a Batman fan since as long as I can remember, which is going back to a bit after the 89 release, since I would have been 3 that year but I can remember the mcdonalds commercials for returns and how excited I was. It's a difficult thing to disinterest me in Batman, and TTs take has done just that. And that sucks for me, because there's so few games in the medium, but they diverged so much from the comic and the character.
Batman S2 is a step in the right direction, story/technically wise, at least so far. Tbh my interest in Telltales games been pretty much on the back burner for almost a year now and in that time the fanaticism I once had for them has definitely dissolved, TWD S3 being the catalyst. I heard a lot of crap went down between writers,the engine,deadlines and higher-ups so it's no surprise that the quality went down. I'd still call myself an optimist though, so if they somehow managed to get their shit together I'll be more than happy to invest more of my time into them again.Time will tell I guess.
Is it truly reasonable and realistic to expect every Telltale game post-TWD Season 1 to have the same level of success as Season 1 did?
Interactive cinema is a niche - not every Telltale game is going to be so lucky so as to have triple A levels of exposure like TWD Season 1 did. Some of this can be alleviated by Telltale advertising their games more, innovating more in the gameplay department, and improving aspects of their writing - but at the end of the day, The Walking Dead Season 1 in large part benefited from a lightning in the bottle effect.
Just because games like Batman The Enemy Within aren't selling as much and aren't getting as much attention in the general gaming audience as Season 1 did, it doesn't mean that those games are bad. Maybe it does mean that Telltale needs to innovate and advertise more in order to get more sales, but that's a superficial metric to dismiss the game's artistic quality by, just because the hype isn't on the same level as TWD Season 1.
Definitely, they do. Outside of their own communication and maybe a coming soon tile on Steam, I see nothing on PC about Telltale. Nothing. There is definitely work to be done there.
If you don't have an internet presence, you are basically ignoring that 18-30 demographic that is oh-so important.
I've already claimed that I do not believe that the market's reception of a game dictates its absolute quality. I do think however that claiming the market's growing disinterest says nothing about the games that followed TWDs1 to be just a foolish a notion.
They do need to innovate and they do need to start making more remarkable stories. I discredit Batman's second Season not because it is not popular, but because it did not remarkably improve in either department. As a Telltale game, after what preceded it, it might look like a masterpiece. But as its own standalone story and game? It suffers from what TT's Guardians game suffered: it's unnecessary, unremarkable, uninspired and unoriginal, at least from where I stand.
I did not mean to come across as defending that every game needed to be on s1's level of success. I meant to say that every game should've been at least near s1's level of quality and innovation. The success part, and not necessarily a success as great as s1's, but a success nevertheless, would've necessarily come after had that requirement been met, alas, it was not and here we are.