Bawhahaha! ... "Logic, Pre-Story...Anyone?" 2: the Return of The ...
*Dj disk squeek effect*
What? Brainkiller? Now what kind of description is that?
No more title ideas from you, Mermaid, READ MY FAX!
But seriously, what part of it was brainkiller? Well yeah the first post was too long and had a case of joke overuse ... if there's something like that, but there s still lots of matters to discuss here, I mean the last post is before the Pirate god's release ...
When you play Monkey Island you leave your common sense of logic at the door. If you don't do this, you're doing it wrong.
That's all I have to say. You can now stop arguing about the merry-go-round of intentional plot holes the series is based on like if it is serious business.
That's all I have to say. You can now stop arguing about the merry-go-round of intentional plot holes the series is based on like if it is serious business.
Well I'm taking the easy way, sparing you all from this torture session. Of course you can always try to spit your way out. Perhaps you'll hit the light along the way .
I like to see an explanation for all questions in a dark humour Coen Bros kind of way (that I think Ron likes them to since he named the two pirate in the begining of thee LR, Bart and Fink , which is a reference to Coen Brother's Barton fink); the way that it doesn't make sense, just like you said.
If we're not gonna get a logical one, can't we at least get a non-sensual and dark-comedy kind of answer?
EDIT: If you're not interested in a topic, feel free to ignore it - Forums Code
I like to see an explanation for all questions in a dark humour Coen Bros kind of way (that I think Ron likes them to since he named the two pirate in the begining of thee LR, Bart and Fink , which is a reference to Coen Brother's Barton fink); the way that it doesn't make sense, just like you said.
If we're not gonna get a logical one, can't we at least get a non-sensual and dark-comedy kind of answer?
Well that's pretty much The Secret you're asking for, there. And that will never be revealed.
Well that's pretty much The Secret you're asking for, there. And that will never be revealed.
I'm not asking about the secret, have you even read the first post?
What do you mean that's pretty much the secret I'm asking for? you mean that not answering the questions is a part of the joke? if that's what you mean I say no it's not and I don't think that's dark-humour in any way.
I said I'd accept any answer from writers (Ron, Tim and Dave) which is funny and dark in a non-sensual way.
I'm not asking about the secret, have you even read the first post?
What do you mean that's pretty much the secret I'm asking for? you mean that not answering the questions is a part of the joke? if that's what you mean I say no it's not and I don't think that's dark-humour in any way.
I said I'd accept any answer from writers (Ron, Tim and Dave) which is funny and dark in a non-sensual way.
Well, if I'm not mistaken I think it was Dave himself who said, regarding the end of MI2 "Those who know it don't tell, and those who tell don't know it. That's how poetry works". And that's pretty much it. That's all part of the The Secret. Look, you can torture yourself with this, or your can have fun not knowing. Either way you'll never know, so might aswell have fun right?
Look I'm not a guy who can never let go a question that has no answer.
I let go all the unanswered questions in "a Series of Unfortunate Events" because the ending was satisfactory.
But take LOST for example, it's not like "aSoUE", because you can never let go those questions and the writers decision to leave them was IMO, stupid.
I have not even finished MI2 yet, so I just opened this thread to list the questions for further look and to make an official thread for talking about them.
I only know that there is a big cliffhanger in the ending of MI2, so I thought it's not satisfactory like LOST ( I assumed that based on fans asking for answers after 20 years, and I think that's what will happen to LOST too) and I thought I should open up this thread.
I'll step out of this discussion now and after I played MI2 I'll come back and say if I still hungry for answers or not.
Look I'm not a guy who can never let go a question that has no answer.
I let go all the unanswered questions in "a Series of Unfortunate Events" because the ending was satisfactory.
But take LOST for example, it's not like "aSoUE", because you can never let go those questions and the writers decision to leave them was IMO, stupid.
I have not even finished MI2 yet, so I just opened this thread to list the questions for further look and to make an official thread for talking about them.
I only know that there is a big cliffhanger in the ending of MI2, so I thought it's not satisfactory like LOST ( I assumed that based on fans asking for answers after 20 years, and I think that's what will happen to LOST too) and I thought I should open up this thread.
I'll step out of this discussion now and after I played MI2 I'll come back and say if I still hungry for answers or not.
Oh boy, are you in for a surprise then. Taken that MI2 was the last children of the Ron, Tim and Dave Triumvirate I believe you will literally bang your head on the table trying to figure out their original intentions for the following of the series after MI2. It's one of those things that will completely rewrite the perspective of the series for you, and quite honestly, I think it would've been better if other's didn't choose to take it from there.
It's like they say. Sometimes the mystery is better than the solution. And when you finish MI2, I think you'll realize that. I remember when I first did it I nearly had tears in my eyes. I had one those philosophical epiphanies that really made me think about certain life questions.
No one in this thread seemed to go into what the pirate hunter was doing at the end of TMI. As far as I know, that did clarify one thing and open up for more questions at the same time. I might remember it wrong, and just saw what I expected to see.
I agree with others, the ending of MI2 was brilliant Such a sad place for the series made in Ron Gilbert's vision to end. Still he claimed he could still make that happen if he got the chance, at least he said in some interview I think.
:spoil-o:
The ending of MI2 does suggest that... well it might disappoint some, since it is a bit of a gag really, but rarely one allowed to influence the story of the game.
:spoil-o:
I believe you will literally bang your head on the table trying to figure out their original intentions for the following of the series after MI2.
I believe their original intentions were to mess up with peoples' heads, they didn't think about MI3 at the time or how they would continue the story. IMO.
Ron Gilbert himself doesn't say otherwise. In fact, in MI2 commentary track, Ron, Tim and Dave say just how they added more and more twists on the move to make it more funny.
So yeah, they DIDN'T think about MI3 at the time they were making MI2. Ron Gilbert may have had something planned for MI3 after MI2 was done (in fact, he said that himself somewhere), but it didn't get farther than that.
Plus, 'the Secret' is really just a joke that got REALLY out of hand. Ron Gilbert will be an asshole if he decides to reveal the sad truth, actually. It was never something big, it was never intended to last 20 years, it was never intended to become what it has become, but it did. Ron actually doesn't explicitly lie, but he evades this topic as hard and as jokingly as he can because he's smart enough to know what'll happen if he actually tells something. Ignorance is bliss, you know.
Plus, 'the Secret' is really just a joke that got REALLY out of hand. Ron Gilbert will be an asshole if he decides to reveal the sad truth, actually. It was never something big, it was never intended to last 20 years, it was never intended to become what it has become, but it did. Ron actually doesn't explicitly lie, but he evades this topic as hard and as jokingly as he can because he's smart enough to know what'll happen if he actually tells something. Ignorance is bliss, you know.
Ron actually doesn't explicitly lie, but he evades this topic as hard and as jokingly as he can because he's smart enough to know what'll happen if he actually tells something. Ignorance is bliss, you know.
Uhm, he doesn't evade the topic at all. He has said the secret's in both MI1 and 2, he just says "no" when asked if he can tell the secret. That's not evading, that's a straight answer. He's also said that he will reveal the secret at some point, but only if there's no chance in hell of him working on a game again. No, I'm not naive to expect to find out anytime soon, but I do believe there is a story for MI3 that would explain a lot of stuff, most importantly the ending to MI2. To be honest, I never really cared about the secret, I just want to know the story as he imagined it. I don't find the explanation in CMI satisfying, but I know there's no guarantee that I'll like the explanation in Ron's MI3 either. Despite this, I'm really curious about it.
Uhm, he doesn't evade the topic at all. He has said the secret's in both MI1 and 2, he just says "no" when asked if he can tell the secret. That's not evading, that's a straight answer.
Of course he says no. But you don't take into account, that when he's asked if "is this the secret" or "does this has something to do with the secret" he makes a little joke. That's called evading, not a straight answer. He also said that if he'll reveal the 'SECRET' most people will be disappointed. (Plus, this is just my opinion,but I think that he created some sort of Secret only some time after MI2 was released)
but I do believe there is a story for MI3 that would explain a lot of stuff, most importantly the ending to MI2. To be honest, I never really cared about the secret, I just want to know the story as he imagined it. I don't find the explanation in CMI satisfying, but I know there's no guarantee that I'll like the explanation in Ron's MI3 either.
That's the biggest problem. Explaining. CMI does a lousy job because it tries too much to explain what happened in LR. And I'm pretty sure that if Gilbert would've ever created a MI3 (which, again, wasn't taken into account while creating MI2), there wouldn't have been much explanatory things. Because, really, explaining stuff... sucks. And there is no way to explain the MI2 ending, you know. I don't remember who said this, but it goes along the lines of: 'If I want to put a giant fish, I put a giant fish. I don't have to explain why this giant fish is there, it's just there'... It could be even Ron, I don't know. But, anyway, I mean, you have 3 funny guys discussing ideas of what to do for the MI2 game, one of them says
"Oh, and you know what we should also do? We should do that scene from Star Wars! Only LeChuck reveals himself as brother!" - "Yeah, that would be awesome! But, you know what? He actually IS his brother!" - "Hell yeah! And this is all a dream!" - "No, a kids imagination!" - "Yeah, and they're just playing in a theme park!" - "And then in the very end, LeChuck shows some glowing eyes to the player!" - "*laughing* Oh yeah, yeah! We should do that, we really should!"
.
Explaining? They were just having fun while thinkin up this crazy stuff, and we want explanation? Why? Why do we care so much about it? It's just there. It's so memorable because it ****s our minds, and it can't be explained because it wasn't created with an explanation behind it. It's just there. Do we really care how and why a SKELETON of a giant monkey with a STONE head is a gateway to underground lava tunnels? Do we care why a Q-tip opens it? Do we need explanation for that? Do we need explanation for the fact how root beer works and why it destroys ghosts? Why an unknown pirate knows Guybrush's name and tells him that he's talking in pirate lingo and that everyone talked like this? Why Hook Isle is connected with Melee with a cable and why everyone has a rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle?
And if Ron would ever create a MI3, I'm sure he would've omitted at least 99% of the explanatory stuff because it's not what it's about. It's not some master plan or a grand scheme. It's just plain pure fun. It's just... there. To have a wide-open-eyed expression and a good laugh. And it's not a big deal.
PS. I could've sounded... way too aggressive in this post. I didn't intend to. It was just a way of expressing my opinion, heh
EDIT: PS2. Personally, when I played MI2 for the first time, that was somewhere in 2000-2001, meaning I was 9-10 years old, I had a big laugh with the ending. Yeah, I was like "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!" but in a cheerful sort of way. And in my childish mind at that point, it never really occured to me to try and actually answer why all that happened and what it all meant. And I don't see a reason why it should now.
EDIT: PS2. Personally, when I played MI2 for the first time, that was somewhere in 2000-2001, meaning I was 9-10 years old, I had a big laugh with the ending. Yeah, I was like "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!" but in a cheerful sort of way. And in my childish mind at that point, it never really occured to me to try and actually answer why all that happened and what it all meant. And I don't see a reason why it should now.
And when I played and finished it, which was actually in 1992, I had the same experience, but it also made me wonder about what would happen in Monkey Island 3.
I have to admit, I don't understand what people see as being so "sad" about the ending of the second game. Intentions? I think the only "intention" here was to make fun of Star Wars and end the game on a slightly freaky comedic note. I really don't get what's so supposedly psychological about the whole thing.
The whole thing with Le Chuck's eyes gives kind of a "The end...or IS it?" feel to me. That coupled with Elaine's final line is all the excuse anyone would need to make another game.
Now, did they intend it to go the way it did with Curse of Monkey Island? That's anybody's guess. I sure as heck don't pretend to know and anybody who does (outside of Lucasarts or the original dev team) is fooling themselves, IMO. But what I do know is that CMI brought us the characters' voices, the funniest musical-number EVER in a video game, and an absolutely gorgeous setting that hosts a huge barrel of laughs. I know for sure it's my favorite Monkey Island game.
I came into this fandom due to the Xbox 360 port of the first game, so I find it somewhat liberating that I didn't have to worry about any of my own fan-made notions when I played through CMI, EMI, and Tales. And hey, if the assorted Lucas properties expect me to believe that Boba Fett survived being eaten by a giant sandworm, I don't think the whole "carnival of the damned" thing is too hard to swallow...
Comments
"Logic, Pre-Story...Anyone?" 2: the Return of The ...
*Dj disk squeek effect*
What? Brainkiller? Now what kind of description is that?
No more title ideas from you, Mermaid, READ MY FAX!
But seriously, what part of it was brainkiller? Well yeah the first post was too long and had a case of joke overuse ... if there's something like that, but there s still lots of matters to discuss here, I mean the last post is before the Pirate god's release ...
That's all I have to say. You can now stop arguing about the merry-go-round of intentional plot holes the series is based on like if it is serious business.
It never was.
You're such a killjoy.
Well I'm taking the easy way, sparing you all from this torture session. Of course you can always try to spit your way out. Perhaps you'll hit the light along the way
If we're not gonna get a logical one, can't we at least get a non-sensual and dark-comedy kind of answer?
EDIT: If you're not interested in a topic, feel free to ignore it - Forums Code
Well that's pretty much The Secret you're asking for, there. And that will never be revealed.
Cool story bro.
What do you mean that's pretty much the secret I'm asking for? you mean that not answering the questions is a part of the joke? if that's what you mean I say no it's not and I don't think that's dark-humour in any way.
I said I'd accept any answer from writers (Ron, Tim and Dave) which is funny and dark in a non-sensual way.
Well, if I'm not mistaken I think it was Dave himself who said, regarding the end of MI2 "Those who know it don't tell, and those who tell don't know it. That's how poetry works". And that's pretty much it. That's all part of the The Secret. Look, you can torture yourself with this, or your can have fun not knowing. Either way you'll never know, so might aswell have fun right?
I let go all the unanswered questions in "a Series of Unfortunate Events" because the ending was satisfactory.
But take LOST for example, it's not like "aSoUE", because you can never let go those questions and the writers decision to leave them was IMO, stupid.
I have not even finished MI2 yet, so I just opened this thread to list the questions for further look and to make an official thread for talking about them.
I only know that there is a big cliffhanger in the ending of MI2, so I thought it's not satisfactory like LOST ( I assumed that based on fans asking for answers after 20 years, and I think that's what will happen to LOST too) and I thought I should open up this thread.
I'll step out of this discussion now and after I played MI2 I'll come back and say if I still hungry for answers or not.
Oh boy, are you in for a surprise then. Taken that MI2 was the last children of the Ron, Tim and Dave Triumvirate I believe you will literally bang your head on the table trying to figure out their original intentions for the following of the series after MI2. It's one of those things that will completely rewrite the perspective of the series for you, and quite honestly, I think it would've been better if other's didn't choose to take it from there.
It's like they say. Sometimes the mystery is better than the solution. And when you finish MI2, I think you'll realize that. I remember when I first did it I nearly had tears in my eyes. I had one those philosophical epiphanies that really made me think about certain life questions.
No, that's not it. Heck, that's not even HALF of it. You'll see.
I agree with others, the ending of MI2 was brilliant
:spoil-o:
The ending of MI2 does suggest that... well it might disappoint some, since it is a bit of a gag really, but rarely one allowed to influence the story of the game.
:spoil-o:
:guybrush:
I believe their original intentions were to mess up with peoples' heads, they didn't think about MI3 at the time or how they would continue the story. IMO.
So yeah, they DIDN'T think about MI3 at the time they were making MI2. Ron Gilbert may have had something planned for MI3 after MI2 was done (in fact, he said that himself somewhere), but it didn't get farther than that.
Plus, 'the Secret' is really just a joke that got REALLY out of hand. Ron Gilbert will be an asshole if he decides to reveal the sad truth, actually. It was never something big, it was never intended to last 20 years, it was never intended to become what it has become, but it did. Ron actually doesn't explicitly lie, but he evades this topic as hard and as jokingly as he can because he's smart enough to know what'll happen if he actually tells something. Ignorance is bliss, you know.
*signed*
Uhm, he doesn't evade the topic at all. He has said the secret's in both MI1 and 2, he just says "no" when asked if he can tell the secret. That's not evading, that's a straight answer. He's also said that he will reveal the secret at some point, but only if there's no chance in hell of him working on a game again. No, I'm not naive to expect to find out anytime soon, but I do believe there is a story for MI3 that would explain a lot of stuff, most importantly the ending to MI2. To be honest, I never really cared about the secret, I just want to know the story as he imagined it. I don't find the explanation in CMI satisfying, but I know there's no guarantee that I'll like the explanation in Ron's MI3 either. Despite this, I'm really curious about it.
Of course he says no. But you don't take into account, that when he's asked if "is this the secret" or "does this has something to do with the secret" he makes a little joke. That's called evading, not a straight answer. He also said that if he'll reveal the 'SECRET' most people will be disappointed. (Plus, this is just my opinion,but I think that he created some sort of Secret only some time after MI2 was released)
That's the biggest problem. Explaining. CMI does a lousy job because it tries too much to explain what happened in LR. And I'm pretty sure that if Gilbert would've ever created a MI3 (which, again, wasn't taken into account while creating MI2), there wouldn't have been much explanatory things. Because, really, explaining stuff... sucks. And there is no way to explain the MI2 ending, you know. I don't remember who said this, but it goes along the lines of: 'If I want to put a giant fish, I put a giant fish. I don't have to explain why this giant fish is there, it's just there'... It could be even Ron, I don't know. But, anyway, I mean, you have 3 funny guys discussing ideas of what to do for the MI2 game, one of them says
Explaining? They were just having fun while thinkin up this crazy stuff, and we want explanation? Why? Why do we care so much about it? It's just there. It's so memorable because it ****s our minds, and it can't be explained because it wasn't created with an explanation behind it. It's just there. Do we really care how and why a SKELETON of a giant monkey with a STONE head is a gateway to underground lava tunnels? Do we care why a Q-tip opens it? Do we need explanation for that? Do we need explanation for the fact how root beer works and why it destroys ghosts? Why an unknown pirate knows Guybrush's name and tells him that he's talking in pirate lingo and that everyone talked like this? Why Hook Isle is connected with Melee with a cable and why everyone has a rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle?
And if Ron would ever create a MI3, I'm sure he would've omitted at least 99% of the explanatory stuff because it's not what it's about. It's not some master plan or a grand scheme. It's just plain pure fun. It's just... there. To have a wide-open-eyed expression and a good laugh. And it's not a big deal.
PS. I could've sounded... way too aggressive in this post. I didn't intend to. It was just a way of expressing my opinion, heh
EDIT: PS2. Personally, when I played MI2 for the first time, that was somewhere in 2000-2001, meaning I was 9-10 years old, I had a big laugh with the ending. Yeah, I was like "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!" but in a cheerful sort of way. And in my childish mind at that point, it never really occured to me to try and actually answer why all that happened and what it all meant. And I don't see a reason why it should now.
And when I played and finished it, which was actually in 1992, I had the same experience, but it also made me wonder about what would happen in Monkey Island 3.
The whole thing with Le Chuck's eyes gives kind of a "The end...or IS it?" feel to me. That coupled with Elaine's final line is all the excuse anyone would need to make another game.
Now, did they intend it to go the way it did with Curse of Monkey Island? That's anybody's guess. I sure as heck don't pretend to know and anybody who does (outside of Lucasarts or the original dev team) is fooling themselves, IMO. But what I do know is that CMI brought us the characters' voices, the funniest musical-number EVER in a video game, and an absolutely gorgeous setting that hosts a huge barrel of laughs. I know for sure it's my favorite Monkey Island game.
I came into this fandom due to the Xbox 360 port of the first game, so I find it somewhat liberating that I didn't have to worry about any of my own fan-made notions when I played through CMI, EMI, and Tales. And hey, if the assorted Lucas properties expect me to believe that Boba Fett survived being eaten by a giant sandworm, I don't think the whole "carnival of the damned" thing is too hard to swallow...