Logic, Pre-Story...Anyone?

[ATTENTION! CRAZY STUFF! DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA END-UP LIKE ... I DUNNO...YOURSELF? WHAT A PARADOX, HUH?]
The World of MI have always been the same till now, 2 guys (to be exact, the hero and anti-hero) fighting over a woman.
but have anyone ever asked why?
in ToMI:Ch4 we nearly reached a good and interesting explanation [read: V.Lady being "teh"* Villain] but soon...POOF! everything changed back to normal and leaved some fans to disappointment. (Why do you like G.P.LeChuck so much?)

Anyway, I feel that there are lots of questions** to be answered*** in the series that are not payed attention too much through these 25 years:
1 - How LeChuck became alive after he killed himself for Elaine father not allowing him to marry her? [My theory for this was that V.Lady tuned him to zombie and has been controlling him all the time.But, it turned out 50% of it is true.then TT decided to turn it to 0% true.(in the same episode!...hehe...yeah...ok, it wasn't funny)]
2 - Why LeChuck is interested in Voodoo?
3 - [crazy] Why Guybrush wants to become a pirate? [/crazy]
4 -
Majus wrote:
In »LeChuck's Revenge« the »Big Whoop«-book says that it’s protected by some deadly traps. What traps?
5 -
Majus wrote:
[what]is behind Elaine's father[?]… [he disappeared while searching for big whoop]
6 - What did Stan do in LeChuck and V.Lady's trail? How did he defended them? Did he made LeChuck interested in Voodoo again?
7 - is the V.Lady released too?

I hope we get some answers till the end of the series, which is highly impossible, so we should wait till Ron Gilbert answers these by making another MI game ... which apparently he "would love to"**** do it.
*I thought I would have an explanation for that typo in the end but ... I don't!
**
except "what is the secret of MI?:D"...geez...:mad:
***I know there are lots of other question than these (especially about the famous cliffhanger in the end of MI2) but I just played the first MI game, so if some of these questions are answered, tell me, and if there are other crazy question in your mind about MI2,3 and 4, post'em to this thread and I'll add them here [I would welcome you crazy questioner to crazy peoples club!]
****He said that in the GameBoomers interview in PAX 09
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Comments

  • edited November 2009
    I kinda like the fact of LeChuck being the Real villain. I just hope TTG shows us that he had a super-uber-masterplan that he's been working on for years.

    ok... then:
    1 - That has been revealed already... Big Whoop turned him into a ghost.
    2 - I think his interest in voodoo is due to his power-lust... He wants to become ever more powerful.. And since Voodoo is a central theme in Caribbean-Pirate folklore, it seems logic...
    3 - I dunno.... I think it's because he thought pirates were so awesome and cool he wanted to be one.
  • edited November 2009
    .
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    Note to self: never think about questioning MI before playing all games in MI series.
    [It is safe to lock this thread now, MODERATORS!]
  • edited November 2009
    No need to lock thread man... These are relevant questions. The one that gt answered was number1, the rest I just gave my own opinion.
  • edited November 2009
    There is many unanswered stuff. I have the feeling that there is more behind Elaines father… he dissapeared while searching for big whoop.
    Also, LeChuck knows the Secret of Monkey Island… you can ask him in »LeChucks Revenge«, when you hang over that pool of deadly green stuff with Wally. LeChuck answers something like »You will learn it soon«.

    Everytime I play Monkey Island 1 and 2 I realize that there is more than just »Rescue the girl« or »Get the treasure«. There are so many very small story-parts, hidden in dialogues.
    In »LeChucks Revenge« the »Big Whoop«-book says that it’s protected by some deadly traps. What traps?
  • edited November 2009
    Majus wrote: »
    There is many unanswered stuff. I have the feeling that there is more behind Elaines father… he dissapeared while searching for big whoop.

    Nay, that'd be Elaine's grandfather...being Herman Toothrot...right?
    Also, LeChuck knows the Secret of Monkey Island… you can ask him in »LeChucks Revenge«, when you hang over that pool of deadly green stuff with Wally. LeChuck answers something like »You will learn it soon«.

    But when asking him in CMI, it turns out he doesn't really know. :D
    Anyhow, I think I once heard you saying that you don't quite believe in the content of CMI and EMI since they're are not "Gilbertish" anymore. :D
  • edited November 2009
    Thanks for the reply Majus :) (hardly waiting for the last IWWH? Flash Film)
    Questions are added.

    I haven't played MI2 yet but yeah those are big questions, let's continue by adding more questions and speculating about the answers and begging TellTale and Ron Gilbert to answer these questions as soon as they can, well, no that would be the longest thread "EVAR"[!], lets list them here so we could have a good sourse for annoying Ron Gilbert and mock the list of the un-answered questions in his face!* No;
    seriously, it would become a good resource, and the bigger the list is, it probably makes Telltale team or Ron Gilbert more excited to continue the series.
    -To ask[beg] them for more logic and pre-story :)

    MODERATORS![JP-30], don't lock this thread! I take my word back!
    *if the LOST team didn't manage to end the series properly this year by the end of Season 6, do this for them instead of doing it for Ron :)
  • edited November 2009
    Anyhow, I think I once heard you saying that you don't quite believe in the content of CMI and EMI since they're are not "Gilbertish" anymore.
    exactly, we can't trust the answers those two games have to offer
    Nay, that'd be Elaine's grandfather...being Herman Toothrot...right?
    as I saw in the forums several times I think there's a debate on that fact, I can't say anything about it cause I haven't played MI2,3&4 yet...
  • edited November 2009
    No matter how we look at it, CMI and EMI are canon(and TMI =P). Monkey Island was probably meant to go in a different direction, but it has gone on this one, and there's no point on wondering 'what could've been?' now.

    ..Unless Ron wants to spill his secrets?...
    ...
    No?
  • seanvanamanseanvanaman Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2009
    i am DELICATELY going to engage this thread, but I generally find open questions and ambiguous cannon (at least ambiguous to reader/player) far more interesting than getting a story that wraps up a bunch of loose plot ends. the story, at least for me, is about the characters: who they are and where they end up (emotionally and psychologically) and less about what's canonical.
  • edited November 2009
    ^This.

    And honestly, the canon has changed way too many times to be taken seriously anyways. (But its fun, just like how its fun trying to piece together the Zelda timeline.)
  • edited November 2009
    Milkman08 wrote: »
    The World of MI have always been the same till now, 2 guys (to be exact, the hero and anti-hero) fighting over a woman.
    MI2 wasn't about that. LeChuck is totally focused on Guybrush (I can't recall if he even mentions Elaine), and Elaine herself only has a brief appearance.
  • edited November 2009
    As a bonus this latest MI game has the incredible role reversal of two women fighting over a man.. and one of them is a crazy zombie pirate (sort of)!
  • ConCon
    edited November 2009
    Asking questions like " What's Big Whoop? " or " What's the Secret of MI?".....it's like asking "Is there a God?" or "What's the meaning of life in general?".
    Nobody knows but there are hints to be seen everywhere. It's great to have something to wonder about MI -lore but also knowing you're likely to end up in start square without the answer. Sure, Gilbert will reveal it all in due time, sure sure. ;)
  • edited November 2009
    the story, at least for me, is about the characters: who they are and where they end up (emotionally and psychologically) and less about what's canonical.
    it is for me too, but I also wanna know about character's back story, and surly they're interesting too (you like LOST's flashbacks don't you?).wouldn't it be interesting to know about why GuyBrush was so interested to become a pirate?
    And honestly, the canon has changed way too many times to be taken seriously anyways. (But its fun, just like how its fun trying to piece together the Zelda timeline.)
    That's what fans [tim schafer, dave grossman] did and are doing to the series.they do it great and it sure is fun but what about Ron Gilbert's ideas?Although Ron did involved in ToMI...and now he likes to do another MI. I can't wait for it! MI5 by HotHead games, probably... or MI5 by DoubleFine, TellTale and Hothead. :)
    Asking questions like " What's Big Whoop? " or " What's the Secret of MI?".....it's like asking "Is there a God?" or "What's the meaning of life in general?".
    those questions are, yes, but questions about back story of character's is something else.
    Sure, Gilbert will reveal it all in due time, sure sure.
    I sure hope so. :)
  • edited November 2009
    Milkman08 wrote: »
    That's what fans [tim schafer, dave grossman] did and are doing to the series.they do it great and it sure is fun but what about Ron Gilbert's ideas?Although Ron did involved in ToMI...and now he likes to do another MI. I can't wait for it! MI5 by HotHead games, probably... or MI5 by DoubleFine, TellTale and Hothead. :)


    Wait, how was this relevant to my post?
  • BasBas
    edited November 2009
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    Wait, how was this relevant to my post?

    Also, Tim Schafer did very little on TCOMI ('additional design') and nothing on EFMI.
  • edited November 2009
    Milkman08 wrote: »
    That's what fans [tim schafer, dave grossman] did and are doing to the series.they do it great and it sure is fun but what about Ron Gilbert's ideas?
    What do you mean by fans? They worked on the original game.
  • edited November 2009
    I cant bring myself to read this thread, it starts off screaming at me and I just cant read it.
  • edited November 2009
    You know what's funny, is that no matter what franchise you watch..there are going to be plotholes, your eventualy going to be disappointed some how, it's the way the world works, and the way franchises work. Ex: Jurassic Park one of my alltime fav movies. There were unanswered questions like so, that were never answered in the sequel like this one.

    1: If there were dino's on a different island, how come no one noticed them until a little girl was attacked?

    2. Are there still dinosaurs on the first island?

    3. How the hell did a spinosaurus just get bred, if you didn't see him in the second movie..he's just there.

    It's what people writers and directors do all the time, and game studios do to keep us interested in a game long enough that they get a fanbase, and to grow and spread their product.
  • edited November 2009
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    ^This.

    And honestly, the canon has changed way too many times to be taken seriously anyways. (But its fun, just like how its fun trying to piece together the Zelda timeline.)

    Oh Oh Oh, I've got this one!

    I think that Majora's Mask takes place after Ocarina of Time...

    And...

    and Spirit Tracks takes place after Phantom Hourglass!

    I'm so good at this! :) :) :)

    [/end joking]
  • edited November 2009
    Con wrote: »
    Asking questions like " What's Big Whoop? " or " What's the Secret of MI?".....it's like asking "Is there a God?" or "What's the meaning of life in general?"

    "Is there a God?" No.

    "What's the meaning of life in general?" There isn't one.

    The Scret of Monkey Island is the world's only true mystery.
  • edited November 2009
    woooooooooooooooow, this is one crazy and totally wild thread. it's too much, i'll have to lay down. my brain hurts.
  • edited November 2009
    "Is there a God?" No.

    "What's the meaning of life in general?" There isn't one.

    The Scret of Monkey Island is the world's only true mystery.

    so uneducated.

    "Is there a God?"
    It's one of an endless spectrum of possibilities, but probably as likely as the universe being the inside of a giant jellybean. Probably slightly more likely than that.

    "What's the meaning of life in general?"
    It depends from where you are looking.
  • edited November 2009
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    Wait, how was this relevant to my post?
    You said the cannon is changed lots of times and I said the changes were not done by Ron Gilbert.
    What do you mean by fans? They worked on the original game.
    I know they did, but, the real story writer was Ron Gilbert, and they helped on design and writing funny aspects of game.MI3&4 are turned out great but they seem like some fan fictions.
    and I'sure MI3 and 4 is not what were in Ron Gilbert mind about the sequels.

    What I hope is all of them work on the last[?] MI so the series is ended to it's galore.You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain, I don't want MI to become the Villain (turn bad).
    I know it's sad, but it should end someday(and in a satisfying way), doesn't it?
    It's what people writers and directors do all the time, and game studios do to keep us interested in a game long enough that they get a fanbase, and to grow and spread their product.
    Yeah, but those questions should be answered someday, no?
    I cant bring myself to read this thread, it starts off screaming at me and I just cant read it.
    well skip the attention part and read the end notes in the end, that should be easier, huh?
  • edited November 2009
    "Is there a God?" No.

    "What's the meaning of life in general?" There isn't one.

    The Scret of Monkey Island is the world's only true mystery.

    Wrong!!!

    The Answer is: 42 :D

    Interesting thread, though i think its better to have some loose ends and something to speculate about - that makes things interesting ;)
  • edited November 2009
    I'm not holding my breath for for Ron Gilbert to give out the secret of monkey island. I don't even see how unless Telltale recruits him and they get to do another series or Lucasarts sells the series rights. It's sorta like a tease at this point. It's been 19 years.

    And I know Curse of Monkey Island wasn't written by Ron or had any input, however I liked the game after 6 or 7 years of limbo. I know he said he never thought Elaine and Guybrush had a chance romantically, but it was still a good story to me.
  • edited November 2009
    DorDuke82 wrote: »
    Wrong!!!

    The Answer is: 42 :D
    42 was never put forth as the meaning of life, simply The Answer to the Ultimate Question. This is completely different, because the Ultimate Question could be damn-near anything, and "What is the meaning of life?" simply doesn't fit in any sense. Assuming that "What is the meaning of Life?" is the question is just really poor logic.
  • edited November 2009
    DorDuke82 wrote: »
    Wrong!!!

    The Answer is: 42 :D

    -smack-
    hplikelike wrote: »
    Oh Oh Oh, I've got this one!

    I think that Majora's Mask takes place after Ocarina of Time...

    And...

    and Spirit Tracks takes place after Phantom Hourglass!

    I'm so good at this! :) :) :)

    [/end joking]

    Ocarina of Time takes place first in the series and is followed immediately by Majora's Mask. A Link to the Past takes place centuries later (with the events of OoT being called "the Imprisoning War"), and is followed by Link's Awakening. Oracle of Ages probably takes place before Oracle of Seasons because Impa-possessed-by-Veran doesn't recognize Link in a linked Ages and Link takes no notice. The Minish Cap is followed centuries later by Four Swords, then shortly after that by Four Swords Adventures. The Wind Waker is followed shortly by Phantom Hourglass and then centuries later by Spirit Tracks. The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II take place together at the very end of the storyline. And Twilight Princess is an orphan, there's a confirmed split timeline, and there's a master timeline document that Nintendo has confirmed but will never show us.

    Seriously, this post is probably worse than when I figured out Guybrush's likely age throughout the series.

    And now, more on topic, it doesn't matter that Ron Gilbert wasn't involved in the third and fourth games. LucasArts holds the rights, so they decide what gets to enter canon. And yes, that may disrespect the original intentions sometimes, but Ron Gilbert recognizes that the other games they've put out have been good quality games, and that while not exactly what he intended, they've done good things with the story (I would link to where I read this, but I can't seem to find the interview again).

    So before you demand that Curse, Escape, and Tales be retconned out of canon and Ron Gilbert make the REAL Monkey Island 3, you should consider how he feels about those games.
  • edited November 2009
    -smack-



    Ocarina of Time takes place first in the series and is followed immediately by Majora's Mask. A Link to the Past takes place centuries later (with the events of OoT being called "the Imprisoning War"), and is followed by Link's Awakening. Oracle of Ages probably takes place before Oracle of Seasons because Impa-possessed-by-Veran doesn't recognize Link in a linked Ages and Link takes no notice. The Minish Cap is followed centuries later by Four Swords, then shortly after that by Four Swords Adventures. The Wind Waker is followed shortly by Phantom Hourglass and then centuries later by Spirit Tracks. The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II take place together at the very end of the storyline. And Twilight Princess is an orphan, there's a confirmed split timeline, and there's a master timeline document that Nintendo has confirmed but will never show us.

    Seriously, this post is probably worse than when I figured out Guybrush's likely age throughout the series.

    And now, more on topic, it doesn't matter that Ron Gilbert wasn't involved in the third and fourth games. LucasArts holds the rights, so they decide what gets to enter canon. And yes, that may disrespect the original intentions sometimes, but Ron Gilbert recognizes that the other games they've put out have been good quality games, and that while not exactly what he intended, they've done good things with the story (I would link to where I read this, but I can't seem to find the interview again).

    So before you demand that he go back and demand that Curse, Escape, and Tales be retconned out of canon and Ron Gilbert make the REAL Monkey Island 3, you should consider how he feels about those games.

    I have heard that Twilight Princess takes place after Ocarina of Time by at least 100 years. Also, I would argue Ages/Season time line is determined by the player.
  • edited November 2009
    hplikelike wrote: »
    I have heard that Twilight Princess takes place after Ocarina of Time by at least 100 years. Also, I would argue Ages/Season time line is determined by the player.

    What I meant is that Twilight Princess is the only game that's not directly connected to another game, featuring the same Link (or in the case of The Minish Cap, the same plot line, with Vaati and the Four Sword), and it's harder to tie the sub-groupings together into the larger plot line.

    As for the Oracles, it's true that you can play whatever way you want, but the Impa thing and a few other oddities seem to make the story make more sense if Ages is placed first.
  • edited November 2009
    Oh geez what did I start?


    Annnnd....
    Milkman08 wrote: »
    You said the cannon is changed lots of times and I said the changes were not done by Ron Gilbert.

    This honestly doesn't change my statement.

    AAAAAANNNNNDDD...
    so uneducated.

    "Is there a God?"
    It's one of an endless spectrum of possibilities, but probably as likely as the universe being the inside of a giant jellybean. Probably slightly more likely than that.

    "What's the meaning of life in general?"
    It depends from where you are looking.

    I COULD be all serious bzn here about the subject, but instead I'm going to point out that you're missing the joke here.
  • edited November 2009
    more crazy questions about ch4: What did Stan do in LeChuck and V.Lady's trail? How did he defended them? Did he made LeChuck interested in Voodoo again? is the V.Lady released too, or LeChuck escaped?
  • edited November 2009
    If you think about it, it was sort of a stupid question when Guybrush asked how LeChuck got out. He should know full well that Hardtack isn't the sharpest crayon in the box. Though LeChuck would've had to come up with a different trick, with Stan being his lawyer and all, Hardtack still isn't all that bright and I'm sure he could've been fooled another way.
  • edited November 2009
    DorDuke82 wrote: »
    Wrong!!!

    The Answer is: 42 :D

    The meaning of life
  • edited November 2009
    S@bre wrote: »

    YES. Monty Python's The Meaning of Life blows 42 out of the water.

    The only thing is I'm not quite sure it fits with Telltale's family friendly policy (though that's just Monty Python for you).
  • edited November 2009
    "Is there a God?"
    It's one of an endless spectrum of possibilities, but probably as likely as the universe being the inside of a giant jellybean. Probably slightly more likely than that.

    It shouldn't be cared that much. I mean, not that much to call one "uneducated". Also we're in a thread based on a fictional pirate's adventures, making this even more pointless.
  • edited November 2009
    YES. Monty Python's The Meaning of Life blows 42 out of the water.

    The only thing is I'm not quite sure it fits with Telltale's family friendly policy (though that's just Monty Python for you).

    If Monty Python and Monkey Island had a baby, the world would end do to its awesomeness.

    Now back to Charlie Chaplin.
  • edited November 2009
    If you think about it, it was sort of a stupid question when Guybrush asked how LeChuck got out. He should know full well that Hardtack isn't the sharpest crayon in the box. Though LeChuck would've had to come up with a different trick, with Stan being his lawyer and all, Hardtack still isn't all that bright and I'm sure he could've been fooled another way.
    Gee how could I forget? You're right, I totally forgot about that stupid guard.

    But I'm still curious about what Stan did, maybe we will hear some hints from some random pirate that was sittin in court in Ch5, to fill this little gap.
  • edited November 2009
    Yeah, I forgot all about him too until I was reading your post. It's like we had enough on our minds at the time that Hardtack wasn't anywhere near the surface, and for that matter, the same probably goes for Guybrush. And I agree about the Stan thing, though it's also entirely possible that the trial hadn't started by the time LeChuck escaped and did Guybrush in.
  • edited July 2010
    I know I'm reopening a thread which is close (just close ... !) to become a zombie thread....
    I haven't been to MI room since a long time, but I'm sure there's lot more questions to discuss, so I now re-open this thread and will update my first post after new questions submitted.
    I think there's lots of more things to talk about in this discussion.
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