The superbattery copy protection in DOTT doesn't have a very large amount of variables, so a persistent person could fairly easily get past it, even w/o the manual or help from the web.
I think that picking apart the miniscule details of my example is missing the point.
And yes, ScummVM does in fact bypass copy protection. You can, for instance, enter any series of numbers into the Mix'n'Mojo segment of Monkey Island 2 and it will register as valid.
And yes, ScummVM does in fact bypass copy protection. You can, for instance, enter any series of numbers into the Mix'n'Mojo segment of Monkey Island 2 and it will register as valid.
According to the readme there's a reason for this behaviour:
The ScummVM team does not condone piracy. However, there are cases when
LucasArts themselves bundled cracked interpreters with their own games --
the data files still contain the copy protection scripts, but the interpreter
bypasses them. There is no way for us to tell the difference between legitimate
and pirated data files, so for the games where we know the original interpreter
may have been cracked ScummVM will always have to bypass the copy protection.
I browsed through this discussion just a little, and I'd like to give my $0.02 as well.
In my opinion, copy protections do not affect the overall sales of a game. A very good example of this has been the game "Syndicate" by Bullfrog. It did not have any copy protection, and this was the time of code-wheels, colored foils necessary to read some VISA-Codes, but it was one of the most-sold games in that time.
Copy protections annoy the people how bought the software, think about crap like Starforce, which is essentialy a root-kit and thus more a virus like anything else. Actually there are even programs that won't run from the original due to such a copy protection and you actually _have_ to crack it in order to play it.
And as mentioned above a couple of times, people playing pirated games would not necessarily have bought the software if they did not have access to a "free" version.
On the other hand, software companies should make the purchase worth the money, to make a difference between having just the software or a box with lots of goodies in it.
These days you get one of the DVD-Cases (in Europe) with a leaflet of two pages and the Disc which contains the Manual as PDF. And that's quite disappointing. Think of Ultima V and VI, with cloth maps, manuals printed on some precious paper and the goodies. Or the old Lucasfilm games, actually I just found my old, 20 Year-old ZakMcKracken box, with the Newspaper and everything, just amazing!
So, for Sam n Max, maybe something is possible for a boxed version later on ? (I already purchased the season 1, but I would most certainly buy another boxed version, if it had any value besides the software).
One thing I'm a little annoyed about is, however, that people using gametap can already play episode 3, and people who already purchased the whole Season still have to wait a week or so. I don't exactly get what gametap is for, but it sure feels a little odd that having paid for the game I'm not one of the first to play it.
Having said this, I hope Sam n Max is selling that well that TellTale will consider doing more like that. There's so much potential in for sequels, I think we'd all like to know what Bernard, Zak or Bobbin have been up to lately :=.
If someone of importance reads this PLEASE contract David Fox to do a sequel of Zak McKracken! I promise I'll buy at least ten copies! Pleeeease
(DISCLAIMER: regular poster - posting anonymously for reasons of cowardance. )
I've played all three episodes so far, all of them pirated. I suppose the problem is that it was so easy; even more enticing was the fact that unlike a typical new release game which would be several gigs worth to download, the S&M episodes were roughly 70MB a pop, making things rather trivial and impulsive.
I am... uncertain about what I'll be doing for the future. The past three episodes were nice but have no real replayability value, so I don't gain anything by buying the already-played eps to compensate for past actions. More so, when ep 3 was finally released to the public a crack was made available in a matter of hours. Too easy, and I don't see the future episodes being any more difficult to acquire illegitimately.
I'm up to my armpits in pirated software, but occasionally I will buy the odd piece of software fully legit. Mainly it will be because the legit copy is less of a hassle to deal with then the legal copy, but here with the S&M episodes, having to worry about activations and compatabilities and such, I can't see myself taking the legit path anytime. That and the fact I'm lazy, and know what I'm doing to avoid being bitten by spyware/viruses/etc.
Oh, and the argument that people with money will be more willing to go legit is a load of crock. If it's easy enough, piracy always wins out. I'm still thinking about what I'll do in the future. You can try to convince me, but keep in mind that arguments about Telltale games and how one should fell bad about cheating out the indy developers doesn't work to those who have... flexable morals.
I've played all three episodes so far, all of them pirated. I suppose the problem is that it was so easy; even more enticing was the fact that unlike a typical new release game which would be several gigs worth to download, the S&M episodes were roughly 70MB a pop, making things rather trivial and impulsive.
That's great that you have no morals.. but if we don't see a season 2 because people like you couldn't be bothered to support the company that spent hours making these games..and revived a game that was cancelled by LucasArts (because they didn't think anyone would buy a new Sam and Max game) thats a disgrace :mad:
They may be easy to pirate (well, not "may", I know they are, I already admitted that Episode 1 was not a legal acquisition for me - until I replaced it with the legit copy), but if any title is worth the money, it's Sam and Max. Not only is it cheap, but it's made by a company who truly loves the franchise, and truly wants to give the best experience to their customers. (You can tell, because they could have easily tracked the IPs of people who admitted to piracy, and taken legal action)
Besides, if you buy the season, you'll get the nifty CD afterwards
Telltale is one of the last good software developers, don't screw 'em over.
I used to download a lot of different things, but now I buy everything (for example, my new music CD collection is quickly growing). I guess recently I've just begun to understand what it is to work for a living, and that downloading really is stealing from many hard-working people. If there is a game, movie, or music CD I feel strongly about, I will go out of my way to buy a legit copy and to encourage others to buy one, knowing that I did my part to show my support. Not only that, but having the real thing just feels better. Having an actual physical case or box is much more gratifying (though, this does not apply to Sam and Max, obviously).
People who pirate just aren't in the same frame of mind. And that's alright. Because I really do believe that the majority of these people wouldn't pay for the game anyway. So the loss of sales is really exaggerated, IMO.
I'm also one of those people that believe copy protection is bad. All games will be cracked anyway. Copy protection just slows down the process a bit, but at the same time hassles and scares away legitimate buyers. I, for example, want to play Black Mirror, but refuse to touch or support any game that uses StarForce.
That's great that you have no morals.. but if we don't see a season 2 because people like you couldn't be bothered to support the company that spent hours making these games..and revived a game that was cancelled by LucasArts (because they didn't think anyone would buy a new Sam and Max game) thats a disgrace :mad:
Ah, but I never said I had no morals, I said I had flexible morals. There is a different. I can be very passionate against piracy in certain situations, and yet become incredibly blasé about the issue in others. I suppose I'm a Valve fan in that case; I hate people playing pirated stuff that's on the Steam catalogue. Might have something to do with my Half-Life addiction.
In any case, I don't think Telltale games have anything to worry about. I was never a S&M fan from long ago, so the episodes were my first foray into the S&M universe. Ultimately, if I wasn't going to buy them either way, TT games was NEVER going to be worse off, cos they were never going to have received my money. At least that's the logic.
Also, keep in mind that being a LOYAL, paying fan of a developer means nothing these days. I was a fan of Ritual and bought their Sin Episodes: Emergence. Now, they've been acquired by a casual gaming company and the odds of a second episode are virtually gone. How exactly did my money go towards a second episode? It didn't in the end, which is why such arguments about season 2 of S&M going to hell because I don't pay don't ring with me. My financial loyalty to Ritual meant jack. I'm not convinced.
This probably can't be emphasized enough--it rounds out to under $6 a pop for the season pass, and the low price is probably intended to attract new subscribers more than being a true reflection of the costs of production--Telltale was initially charging $20 for the first Bone episode if I recall correctly, with Dan Connors saying in a recent interview that the second Bone episode would've probably been done sooner if not due to issues with fundraising.
A Sam and Max episode is still cheaper than Samorost 2, a simple flash game, and Al Emmo and Ankh, which cost $20 each. Even Telltale Texas Hold'em is more expensive. Having played the 3 episodes already, you already know the amount of quality work that goes into them--from voice actors to professional sound, how many $6 games give you nearly 2000 lines of voice acting (even at 50 cents per line, that costs at least $1000, and I'm inclined to believe it costs $1-$5 per line) and incredibly composed soundtracks? Popcap makes $20 off each copy of Bejeweled!
As a sidenote, I'm happy that Telltale appears to be exploring the realm of consoles--not only will a possibly wider audience get introduced to these funny games, but they really won't have to deal with pirates as much--I'd even entertain the thought of them going exclusively console, and I don't own any console at the moment.
It's just disheartening when I search for Sam and Max info at Google Blog Search and end up with all these hits for Sam and Max torrents with 100+ seeds.
Also, keep in mind that being a LOYAL, paying fan of a developer means nothing these days. I was a fan of Ritual and bought their Sin Episodes: Emergence. Now, they've been acquired by a casual gaming company and the odds of a second episode are virtually gone. How exactly did my money go towards a second episode? It didn't in the end, which is why such arguments about season 2 of S&M going to hell because I don't pay don't ring with me. My financial loyalty to Ritual meant jack. I'm not convinced.
Well, I don't know about Sin, but--if there were 10000 or so people that pirated it, wouldn't that have influenced their cost recovery somewhat? In turn affecting their ability to produce another episode?
Ah, but I never said I had no morals, I said I had flexible morals. There is a different. I can be very passionate against piracy in certain situations, and yet become incredibly blasé about the issue in others. I suppose I'm a Valve fan in that case; I hate people playing pirated stuff that's on the Steam catalogue. Might have something to do with my Half-Life addiction.
In any case, I don't think Telltale games have anything to worry about. I was never a S&M fan from long ago, so the episodes were my first foray into the S&M universe. Ultimately, if I wasn't going to buy them either way, TT games was NEVER going to be worse off, cos they were never going to have received my money. At least that's the logic.
Also, keep in mind that being a LOYAL, paying fan of a developer means nothing these days. I was a fan of Ritual and bought their Sin Episodes: Emergence. Now, they've been acquired by a casual gaming company and the odds of a second episode are virtually gone. How exactly did my money go towards a second episode? It didn't in the end, which is why such arguments about season 2 of S&M going to hell because I don't pay don't ring with me. My financial loyalty to Ritual meant jack. I'm not convinced.
First, I'll mention that I believe you should be put in jail. This is because you are screwing over people working on this game, by basically stealing their work. You are also screwing other people (like me) who acquired a legitimate copy of the game.
I also think the constant pirates claim of "it doesn't matter, because if I didn't download it I wouldn't have played it either way" doesn't really work - if there was an ENFORCED LAW keeping you from downloading any games, you'd probably get bored enough and have to buy SOME games. In that situation, there's a chance you'd be buying some games which otherwise you'd be pirating.
Regarding the Sin episodes, I guess the reason no more episodes will be made is that you were screwed over by other pirates, who downloaded the game and didn't pay for it.
I think the issue of how cheap the games are may make it a bit more absurd that you haven't payed for them, but it doesn't really matter because stealing a car isn't better than stealing a candy, just because the car is more expensive.
I'm not going to try to convince you to buy the game. I know that Telltale has taken a huge risk.. They've started a new game company. They've made adventure games. Which are very expensive to produce, very time consuming. They are a very small team. They are competing against huge companies with budgets in the 10s of millions. I feel very comfortable supporting them. I've been offered free products from Telltale but I still purchase the games, because I wan't them to survive and succeed. I support all my independant music artists just the same. The environmment of entertainment at the moment is that everything is the same.. If we don't support people who go against the grain, and do something different, creative and fun.. Then it just won't be out there for people anymore.
I wanted to say one more thing regarding the "flexible morals" thingy - of course I (and I believe most people) also have flexible morals. For example, I eat meat.
I don't believe in an absolute all-true moral code. I see the moral code for what it is - a code invented and enforced by society to make as get along with each other. For example, of course everyone would want to be as immoral as they can so they'd be as happy as possible (because without any rules you can do whatever it takes to be happy, like paying for nothing etc.)
However, since everyone in society would want to be immoral, and people would get screwed by other people being immoral, we are basically agreeing to enforce a moral code on each other so that we could reach some kind of global maxima (everyone is a bit sadder than they were if they could be immoral while the rest are moral, but a lot happier than they were if everyone were immoral)
But - you are basically coming here and telling us: "I have flexible morals, so I decided to screw you", which is a very stupid thing to do. I also don't understand why you'd like to "discuss" your flexible morals since convincing other people is actually bad for you - optimally, you should just continue pirating but convince everyone else to buy games legitimately and condemn anyone who doesn't.
I also don't understand why you'd like to "discuss" your flexible morals since convincing other people is actually bad for you - optimally, you should just continue pirating but convince everyone else to buy games legitimately and condemn anyone who doesn't.
ENOUGH! I'm getting annoyed with people putting things into my mouth already! Where the hell did I say that I was encouraging others to pirate? I did not. I was merely noting how easy it was, and the thought processes involved.
I know piracy is wrong. I have absolutely no desire to see others do it. But, I live by my own code. You did say something interesting though:
I think if we really want piracy to stop, we should get to a point where a person will be BANNED FROM SOCIETY for pirating games.
Oh man, you might as well lock up the greater Asian population who use computers, as well as your Israeli countryfolk. That's a lot of people you're suggesting would be put in PRISON of all places, just for illegally downloading a game. You OK with that?
EDIT: How much is the full Sam & Max season? I admit to having never checked.
That's a lot of people you're suggesting would be put in PRISON of all places, just for illegally downloading a game. You OK with that?
Errr... when someone does something illegal, depending on severity of offense, they often get fined, or put in prison. That would be the legal system. Granted, companies tend to go after illegal distributors, and not downloaders, since arresting every pirate isn't feasable, but piracy is still illegal. You may not suffer any consequences unless you distribute, but the fact remains that they have every right to sue you, and at the going rate for stolen multimedia, you'd have to be mighty wealthy to avoid jail time. So, what exactly is so mind boggling about piracy=prison?
ENOUGH! I'm getting annoyed with people putting things into my mouth already! Where the hell did I say that I was encouraging others to pirate? I did not. I was merely noting how easy it was, and the thought processes involved.
I know piracy is wrong. I have absolutely no desire to see others do it. But, I live by my own code.
Yeah, I know you did not actively encourage anyone to pirate, but you are indirectly doing so, by discussing about it freely and telling us why you do it. If someone killed a person on the street, I don't think I'd see him going around on forums saying stuff like:
"Yeah, I have flexible morals. Why, just the other day I killed someone I saw on the street, because he had a nice coat and I wanted it."
But for some reason you have the urge to come here and share your crimes with us. By speaking about it openly and explaining why you do it, you: (a) ARE encouraging others to do it because they see how you're doing it and it's not so bad, and also understand your reasons for doing it and think maybe they apply to them as well, and - (b) encourage the notion of piracy accepted by society, because if it wasn't accepted - you wouldn't feel you could talk about it freely.
I'd say both these issues are working against you.
You did say something interesting though:
Oh man, you might as well lock up the greater Asian population who use computers, as well as your Israeli countryfolk. That's a lot of people you're suggesting would be put in PRISON of all places, just for illegally downloading a game. You OK with that?
I don't think that's what would happen. Why do you think all these people are pirating? It's mostly because they KNOW nothing would happen to them. A lot of my friends are leading very full lives - studying in the university, working for software companies, designing clothes - and they are also stealing software products. Do you think they'd continue to steal if they'd knew there is a chance they'd get busted and put in jail for it?
The minute pirating would start to be enforced, all those asian, israeli and the rest of the pirates would just stop.
Here's a fun thing I thought of--a lot of political sites like to go this way with "Bad government policy costs X money. For the same amount of money we would have 2000 new hospitals, or 400 new schools, or 1000000 new police officers, etc."
So what about something akin to that--
An episode of Sam and Max:
Cheaper than 2 gallons of gasoline.
Cheaper than 10 minutes in a NYC taxi.
Cheaper than a movie ticket.
Cheaper than a McDonald's Happy Meal.
etc.
(and I kind of made those figures up, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was correct about them)
The problem that you (ShaggE and matan) are ignoring is that killing someone is definitely gonna get you put in jail. Piracy, at long as it's kept at home and not at a business where audits can occur, is one of the few crimes that a heck of a lot of people involve themselves with because they will get away with it. It's rather difficult to enforce. I'm still not encouraging piracy. Telling you why I do it is not encouragement. I'm merely representing the other side of the table.
(EDIT: Well no you're not exactly ignoring it, but I suppose under appreciating the importance of this fact).
I have noticed that younger kids these days are showing an aversion to piracy, more so than when I was young(er). Maybe those anti-piracy ads are working?
Ah screw it, I'll buy the damn game. It's within my "morality factor". Cheers for the banter.
I think it's a lot easier then you might think, at least here in Israel. If you pick a random person, and scan their computer for illegal software, you would find tons of those. I'm all for doing those surprise "house visits" where people's computer will be scanned. Of course it would be better if they would announce in advance that they are going to start doing those so everyone would have enough time to delete their illegal software (I don't really want everyone to be put in jail, but it'd be great to scare them bit)
Not directed particularly to Anon:
On reflection, I think emphasizing the price is the way to go--it's just so cheap on 2 levels--first, compared to the prices of every day goods--and second, compared to the large prices that games command in general (Bejeweled for $20?).
If you pick a random person, and scan their computer for illegal software, you would find tons of those. I'm all for doing those surprise "house visits" where people's computer will be scanned.
Excuse me? You ever heard of things like "privacy" and "innocent until proven guilty"? Even with the most heinous of crimes authorities in any free country need a reasonable suspicion and a warrant before pulling stuff like that, and for good reason.
Piracy is bad, but please don't start pretending it's anywhere near as bad to deserve a witch-hunt like that. I'll assume you were joking, but all the same please show some perspective here people.
Excuse me? You ever heard of things like "privacy" and "innocent until proven guilty"? Even with the most heinous of crimes authorities in any free country need a reasonable suspicion and a warrant before pulling stuff like that, and for good reason.
Piracy is bad, but please don't start pretending it's anywhere near as bad to deserve a witch-hunt like that. I'll assume you were joking, but all the same please show some perspective here people.
I never said privacy would be broken nor that people would not be concidered innocent. Right now, you agree to get your bags inspected when you enter an airplane, or (at least in Israel) enter a shopping mall. A cop stopping you by the road can test your breath for alcohol even if he has no reason to suspect you might have been drinking. Remember - "innocent until proven guilty" still needs to give the law enforcement the ability to try to prove that you are guilty.
If privacy is the matter, this could have many solutions. For instance, the randomly chosen computers could be picked up, brought to the "lab" where they would have anonymous tags. There would be strict restrictions on what the person scanning the computer could look through (for example, he will not be allowed to read your e-mails etc.) Even better, a program could scan the computer for illegal software and could be entirely automated, and not allowed to keep any personal information on the scanned files.
These are just a few simple solutions I thought of in a few seconds. I'm sure if people seriously gave it thought they'd find much better solutions which allow people to keep their privacy, while also easily allowing the law to be enforced.
I don't know what's the deal in the US or anywhere else, but at least in Israel it's a real plague. Most people I know have many gigas of illegal software on their computer. I'm sure the value of all this software can sum up to a lot of money. Actually, most people have a principal not to buy any software. Even when you buy a new computer, it is usually delivered already with a pirated copy of windows, Office, some cd burning program, some games etc. I think the way it's going right now, it DOES deserve such a "witch hunt".
sadly theft is one of the earmarks of all life on earth......... from packs of wolves, to highend designer clothing stores, all the way to electronic theft..............which in its own spans from idenity theft to to game piracy
the only problem is............there is no way to stop it (other than extinguishing all life on planet earth, but that is another topic) and where there is a will there is a way, and no ammount of security or anti theft measures will keep a determined perp from getting a free pass..............because everything has a weak spot, and after a while you are just wasting time and money trying to secure something. and after a while you will actually have wasted more money on extra useless security measues than what the thieves would have made away with
it is a paradox, and everyone has their side.............and neither side is actually right, just like the chicken and the egg story
No, I personally believe this thinking to be a little bit insane. There are far more sinister and henous crimes that resources should be put towards. I'd rather stop a nut bringing a gun into a convenience store trying to rob it then a software pirate propagating unauthorized copies of software. I'd rather use those resources to stop the drug dealer that sold the wacko the dug which he needs money for so he in turn robs a convenience store, in the process shooting the daughter of a software developer, who's daughter works at the convenience store because he is loosing so much money due to the software pirate propagating unauthorized copies of software...
All jokes and tangents aside. The last thing that I want to see is this line of morality allowing the immoral free reign on the masses, innocent or guilty.
Lets say in these scans they happen to take liberties, and find a dvd player that you bought at a local flea market. This dvd player matches the serial number of a shipment/or unit that was actually stolen. Would you like the hassles and invasions of your privacy or the possibility of fines or imprisonment for purchasing a dvd player second hand as opposed to one of the corporations sponsoring the searches?
In those of us who are lucky enough to live free countries we should not ever blindly give up the freedoms and rights we hold dear. What may seem like an innocent invasion of our privacy for the greater good will always eventually be manipulated by people who will use it for their own gain and greater control over the individual.
Maybe I'm crazy but I DO NOT think a witch hunt is in order. Is piracy a problem... absolutely! But does it warrant me giving up my freedoms. No I'm sorry but my freedom is worth far more then partial loss of revenue.
We need to focus more on solutions and alternatives then police state solutions.
But I digress. Piracy is morally questionable but is unfortunately here to stay. I will always support those worthy of supporting. I break my back for every dollar I earn and I want it to go towards those who do the same. If telltale games is going to bring me genuine quality product and great escape from my daily grind then they have done what is needed to earn my patronage. At least there seems to be a future in the anti-piracy field.
I never said privacy would be broken nor that people would not be concidered innocent. Right now, you agree to get your bags inspected when you enter an airplane, or (at least in Israel) enter a shopping mall. A cop stopping you by the road can test your breath for alcohol even if he has no reason to suspect you might have been drinking. Remember - "innocent until proven guilty" still needs to give the law enforcement the ability to try to prove that you are guilty.
As you may have suspected I'm no particular fan of airline bagage checks; I consider them at best a necessary evil. And again with the perspective, these checkups are to ensure passenger safety, not to check if you may have committed petty theft. The shopping bag example I also consider a necessary evil, and such checks ought to be done only if cameras or personnel already notice enough cause for suspicion. If a particular shop just started grabbing people's bags arbitrarily I'd seriously consider never shopping there again.
And note that in both these cases there's at least a certain amount of choice from my side. It's not like someone can come into my house and confiscate my possessions to check if I might be guilty of something, without having any prior reason to think so; that'd be plain outrageous.
About the cop example: maybe. I'd start to think I was living in a police state if they just pulled people over without any particular reason, though.
About that last line, there is an order in which things are supposed to go you know. The first step is for the authorities to suspect your guilty of something. The second step is to investigate, possibly intruding on your privacy insofar as that is balanced against the weight of the suspicions and the weight of the crime you are suspected of, as determined by a judge and/or preset policy. I realize that in the modern world there is an increasing tendency to reverse these steps, first violating everyone's privacy and then using that information to determine who is suspected of something. IMO this tendency is greatly alarming, threatens to undermine our rights, and should definitely be halted.
If privacy is the matter, this could have many solutions. For instance, the randomly chosen computers could be picked up, brought to the "lab" where they would have anonymous tags. There would be strict restrictions on what the person scanning the computer could look through (for example, he will not be allowed to read your e-mails etc.) Even better, a program could scan the computer for illegal software and could be entirely automated, and not allowed to keep any personal information on the scanned files.
And would you trust your government to abide by such restrictions? I wouldn't trust mine to, and nobody should have to trust theirs. The authorities shouldn't be able to arbitrarily take your computer away, not unless there is enough suspicion of a sufficiently bad crime that any violation of privacy which may result (and any risk thereof which may be incurred) is justified.
I don't know what's the deal in the US or anywhere else, but at least in Israel it's a real plague. Most people I know have many gigas of illegal software on their computer. I'm sure the value of all this software can sum up to a lot of money. Actually, most people have a principal not to buy any software. Even when you buy a new computer, it is usually delivered already with a pirated copy of windows, Office, some cd burning program, some games etc. I think the way it's going right now, it DOES deserve such a "witch hunt".
The part where shops package illegal software does sound quite bad, but also quite easily dealt with. Surely the police can simply buy such a computer, inspect it, then arrest the shopkeeper for distributing pirated software? From what you're writing I get the impression that the real problem your having in Israel is that no-one takes piracy seriously enough to be inclined to do anything about it. But then what you need is not new investigation methods (which'll go just as unused) but merely a wake-up call. If people reported these most flagrant distributors of pirate software to the police and they properly used the methods available to them now you could make the problem diminish drastically without resorting to any invasive investigation techniques.
And I don't believe that "the way it's going right now" can be a valid justification, not unless society is being threatened. Most crimes would threaten society if widespread like that (which is typically why they're illegal in the first place), but here I would doubt that. In any case, any new invasive means you choose to implement must be balanced against the threat to society that your avoiding, and existing means must always be brought to bear first. In my opinion, the kind of massive confiscation of computers you're talking about would be much more threatening, costly, and disruptive to society than software piracy.
I didn't actually mean random confuscation of computers by the police is the best / a valid solution. I understand there are tons of problems with this solution, and you raise legitimate questions, the answer to which should be thought out. I still think saying "nothing can be done to enforce pirating" is giving up too fast, and I just wanted to point out that it IS possible to enforce pirating.
I didn't actually mean random confuscation of computers by the police is the best / a valid solution.
Well you had me fooled for a moment then Sorry if I came across a bit overbearing; I seem to be having that tendency the last couple of weeks, not sure why.
Well then, about enforcement: History shows us (at least) two things about software piracy. The first is that copy-protection accomplishes next to nothing. The second is that P2P networks (and, indeed, popular underground sites) are here to stay, there being always multiple replacements at the ready when one gets shot down.
I'll consider withdrawing one or both of these statements if someone can come up with even a single success in these that wasn't short-lived. But, given that they are both true, I think you can't stop people from using pirated software if they want to, not without resorting to measures that are far out of proportion to the issue at hand.
What you can and should do is take it out of the public area. Shops carrying illegal software as you describe sounds absurd and obviously shouldn't be acceptable. While I believe that in most cases downloading pirated software is not much more morally reprehensible than a vice, even vices are things you keep to yourself, not things you proudly do "out of principle" (:eek:).
Sorry for going into rant mode again, I think I'll just drop out of this thread now
A discussion of software piracy? - That's not a fun title for this thread!
... How about, 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Software Piracy'? or 'Blane's a pretty cool guy. Andie's pretty in pink. And Ducky's just pirated Sam and Max episode 4'?
did anyone ever read about the copy protection for the game XIII? at a certain point in the game, it prevented the player from obtaining an object and had a message saying 'if you want the object buy the game'. i thought that was the most inventive (and guilt creating) piracy preventive i'd heard of.
<snip>
That's brilliant! Talk about incentive to buy the game! Get cozy, play a while, then BAM!
"Oh look, you pirated this - be a sport and buy the real one? Or you'll have wasted ten hours you'll never get back, and have followed a plot you'll never finish hearing about."
Since the game is downloadable, and we need to provide easy access to it for our customers, separating the demo from the full game wouldn't make much of a difference.
As for poisoning torrents... some clever ideas, there. Incientally, the first day Culture Shock went on sale at our site it also showed up on a torrent, but it was actually 800MB of gay porn. :eek: Dunno who did that but we got a good laugh out of it.
Awesome! I'd say there are supporters already dunking the cyanide in the well!
(Maybe further attacks could be with Britney Spears music videos, Nsync ones, Jessica Simpson's music or TV show, Paris - not THAT video - just some brain destroying episode of "The simple life"?)
Awesome! I'd say there are supporters already dunking the cyanide in the well!
(Maybe further attacks could be with Britney Spears music videos, Nsync ones, Jessica Simpson's music or TV show, Paris - not THAT video - just some brain destroying episode of "The simple life"?)
There might be laws against that kind of brutality...
Comments
And yes, ScummVM does in fact bypass copy protection. You can, for instance, enter any series of numbers into the Mix'n'Mojo segment of Monkey Island 2 and it will register as valid.
According to the readme there's a reason for this behaviour:
I browsed through this discussion just a little, and I'd like to give my $0.02 as well.
In my opinion, copy protections do not affect the overall sales of a game. A very good example of this has been the game "Syndicate" by Bullfrog. It did not have any copy protection, and this was the time of code-wheels, colored foils necessary to read some VISA-Codes, but it was one of the most-sold games in that time.
Copy protections annoy the people how bought the software, think about crap like Starforce, which is essentialy a root-kit and thus more a virus like anything else. Actually there are even programs that won't run from the original due to such a copy protection and you actually _have_ to crack it in order to play it.
And as mentioned above a couple of times, people playing pirated games would not necessarily have bought the software if they did not have access to a "free" version.
On the other hand, software companies should make the purchase worth the money, to make a difference between having just the software or a box with lots of goodies in it.
These days you get one of the DVD-Cases (in Europe) with a leaflet of two pages and the Disc which contains the Manual as PDF. And that's quite disappointing. Think of Ultima V and VI, with cloth maps, manuals printed on some precious paper and the goodies. Or the old Lucasfilm games, actually I just found my old, 20 Year-old ZakMcKracken box, with the Newspaper and everything, just amazing!
So, for Sam n Max, maybe something is possible for a boxed version later on
One thing I'm a little annoyed about is, however, that people using gametap can already play episode 3, and people who already purchased the whole Season still have to wait a week or so. I don't exactly get what gametap is for, but it sure feels a little odd that having paid for the game I'm not one of the first to play it.
Having said this, I hope Sam n Max is selling that well that TellTale will consider doing more like that. There's so much potential in for sequels, I think we'd all like to know what Bernard, Zak or Bobbin have been up to lately :=.
If someone of importance reads this PLEASE contract David Fox to do a sequel of Zak McKracken! I promise I'll buy at least ten copies! Pleeeease
Phoo
It was so wonderful, I bought all 6 episodes after that!
I've played all three episodes so far, all of them pirated. I suppose the problem is that it was so easy; even more enticing was the fact that unlike a typical new release game which would be several gigs worth to download, the S&M episodes were roughly 70MB a pop, making things rather trivial and impulsive.
I am... uncertain about what I'll be doing for the future. The past three episodes were nice but have no real replayability value, so I don't gain anything by buying the already-played eps to compensate for past actions. More so, when ep 3 was finally released to the public a crack was made available in a matter of hours. Too easy, and I don't see the future episodes being any more difficult to acquire illegitimately.
I'm up to my armpits in pirated software, but occasionally I will buy the odd piece of software fully legit. Mainly it will be because the legit copy is less of a hassle to deal with then the legal copy, but here with the S&M episodes, having to worry about activations and compatabilities and such, I can't see myself taking the legit path anytime. That and the fact I'm lazy, and know what I'm doing to avoid being bitten by spyware/viruses/etc.
Oh, and the argument that people with money will be more willing to go legit is a load of crock. If it's easy enough, piracy always wins out. I'm still thinking about what I'll do in the future. You can try to convince me, but keep in mind that arguments about Telltale games and how one should fell bad about cheating out the indy developers doesn't work to those who have... flexable morals.
/logs out, logs in
They're dirt cheap, too, you know.
Besides, if you buy the season, you'll get the nifty CD afterwards
Telltale is one of the last good software developers, don't screw 'em over.
People who pirate just aren't in the same frame of mind. And that's alright. Because I really do believe that the majority of these people wouldn't pay for the game anyway. So the loss of sales is really exaggerated, IMO.
I'm also one of those people that believe copy protection is bad. All games will be cracked anyway. Copy protection just slows down the process a bit, but at the same time hassles and scares away legitimate buyers. I, for example, want to play Black Mirror, but refuse to touch or support any game that uses StarForce.
In any case, I don't think Telltale games have anything to worry about. I was never a S&M fan from long ago, so the episodes were my first foray into the S&M universe. Ultimately, if I wasn't going to buy them either way, TT games was NEVER going to be worse off, cos they were never going to have received my money. At least that's the logic.
Also, keep in mind that being a LOYAL, paying fan of a developer means nothing these days. I was a fan of Ritual and bought their Sin Episodes: Emergence. Now, they've been acquired by a casual gaming company and the odds of a second episode are virtually gone. How exactly did my money go towards a second episode? It didn't in the end, which is why such arguments about season 2 of S&M going to hell because I don't pay don't ring with me. My financial loyalty to Ritual meant jack. I'm not convinced.
This probably can't be emphasized enough--it rounds out to under $6 a pop for the season pass, and the low price is probably intended to attract new subscribers more than being a true reflection of the costs of production--Telltale was initially charging $20 for the first Bone episode if I recall correctly, with Dan Connors saying in a recent interview that the second Bone episode would've probably been done sooner if not due to issues with fundraising.
A Sam and Max episode is still cheaper than Samorost 2, a simple flash game, and Al Emmo and Ankh, which cost $20 each. Even Telltale Texas Hold'em is more expensive. Having played the 3 episodes already, you already know the amount of quality work that goes into them--from voice actors to professional sound, how many $6 games give you nearly 2000 lines of voice acting (even at 50 cents per line, that costs at least $1000, and I'm inclined to believe it costs $1-$5 per line) and incredibly composed soundtracks? Popcap makes $20 off each copy of Bejeweled!
As a sidenote, I'm happy that Telltale appears to be exploring the realm of consoles--not only will a possibly wider audience get introduced to these funny games, but they really won't have to deal with pirates as much--I'd even entertain the thought of them going exclusively console, and I don't own any console at the moment.
It's just disheartening when I search for Sam and Max info at Google Blog Search and end up with all these hits for Sam and Max torrents with 100+ seeds.
Well, I don't know about Sin, but--if there were 10000 or so people that pirated it, wouldn't that have influenced their cost recovery somewhat? In turn affecting their ability to produce another episode?
First, I'll mention that I believe you should be put in jail. This is because you are screwing over people working on this game, by basically stealing their work. You are also screwing other people (like me) who acquired a legitimate copy of the game.
I also think the constant pirates claim of "it doesn't matter, because if I didn't download it I wouldn't have played it either way" doesn't really work - if there was an ENFORCED LAW keeping you from downloading any games, you'd probably get bored enough and have to buy SOME games. In that situation, there's a chance you'd be buying some games which otherwise you'd be pirating.
Regarding the Sin episodes, I guess the reason no more episodes will be made is that you were screwed over by other pirates, who downloaded the game and didn't pay for it.
I think the issue of how cheap the games are may make it a bit more absurd that you haven't payed for them, but it doesn't really matter because stealing a car isn't better than stealing a candy, just because the car is more expensive.
I don't believe in an absolute all-true moral code. I see the moral code for what it is - a code invented and enforced by society to make as get along with each other. For example, of course everyone would want to be as immoral as they can so they'd be as happy as possible (because without any rules you can do whatever it takes to be happy, like paying for nothing etc.)
However, since everyone in society would want to be immoral, and people would get screwed by other people being immoral, we are basically agreeing to enforce a moral code on each other so that we could reach some kind of global maxima (everyone is a bit sadder than they were if they could be immoral while the rest are moral, but a lot happier than they were if everyone were immoral)
But - you are basically coming here and telling us: "I have flexible morals, so I decided to screw you", which is a very stupid thing to do. I also don't understand why you'd like to "discuss" your flexible morals since convincing other people is actually bad for you - optimally, you should just continue pirating but convince everyone else to buy games legitimately and condemn anyone who doesn't.
I know piracy is wrong. I have absolutely no desire to see others do it. But, I live by my own code. You did say something interesting though:
Oh man, you might as well lock up the greater Asian population who use computers, as well as your Israeli countryfolk. That's a lot of people you're suggesting would be put in PRISON of all places, just for illegally downloading a game. You OK with that?
EDIT: How much is the full Sam & Max season? I admit to having never checked.
Now I'm torn...
Errr... when someone does something illegal, depending on severity of offense, they often get fined, or put in prison. That would be the legal system. Granted, companies tend to go after illegal distributors, and not downloaders, since arresting every pirate isn't feasable, but piracy is still illegal. You may not suffer any consequences unless you distribute, but the fact remains that they have every right to sue you, and at the going rate for stolen multimedia, you'd have to be mighty wealthy to avoid jail time. So, what exactly is so mind boggling about piracy=prison?
Yeah, I know you did not actively encourage anyone to pirate, but you are indirectly doing so, by discussing about it freely and telling us why you do it. If someone killed a person on the street, I don't think I'd see him going around on forums saying stuff like:
"Yeah, I have flexible morals. Why, just the other day I killed someone I saw on the street, because he had a nice coat and I wanted it."
But for some reason you have the urge to come here and share your crimes with us. By speaking about it openly and explaining why you do it, you: (a) ARE encouraging others to do it because they see how you're doing it and it's not so bad, and also understand your reasons for doing it and think maybe they apply to them as well, and - (b) encourage the notion of piracy accepted by society, because if it wasn't accepted - you wouldn't feel you could talk about it freely.
I'd say both these issues are working against you.
I don't think that's what would happen. Why do you think all these people are pirating? It's mostly because they KNOW nothing would happen to them. A lot of my friends are leading very full lives - studying in the university, working for software companies, designing clothes - and they are also stealing software products. Do you think they'd continue to steal if they'd knew there is a chance they'd get busted and put in jail for it?
The minute pirating would start to be enforced, all those asian, israeli and the rest of the pirates would just stop.
Here's a fun thing I thought of--a lot of political sites like to go this way with "Bad government policy costs X money. For the same amount of money we would have 2000 new hospitals, or 400 new schools, or 1000000 new police officers, etc."
So what about something akin to that--
An episode of Sam and Max:
Cheaper than 2 gallons of gasoline.
Cheaper than 10 minutes in a NYC taxi.
Cheaper than a movie ticket.
Cheaper than a McDonald's Happy Meal.
etc.
(and I kind of made those figures up, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was correct about them)
(EDIT: Well no you're not exactly ignoring it, but I suppose under appreciating the importance of this fact).
I have noticed that younger kids these days are showing an aversion to piracy, more so than when I was young(er). Maybe those anti-piracy ads are working?
Ah screw it, I'll buy the damn game. It's within my "morality factor". Cheers for the banter.
/permanently logs off, scrubs password
EDIT: Done.
I think it's a lot easier then you might think, at least here in Israel. If you pick a random person, and scan their computer for illegal software, you would find tons of those. I'm all for doing those surprise "house visits" where people's computer will be scanned. Of course it would be better if they would announce in advance that they are going to start doing those so everyone would have enough time to delete their illegal software (I don't really want everyone to be put in jail, but it'd be great to scare them bit)
I'm glad you bought the game though
Not directed particularly to Anon:
On reflection, I think emphasizing the price is the way to go--it's just so cheap on 2 levels--first, compared to the prices of every day goods--and second, compared to the large prices that games command in general (Bejeweled for $20?).
Piracy is bad, but please don't start pretending it's anywhere near as bad to deserve a witch-hunt like that. I'll assume you were joking, but all the same please show some perspective here people.
I never said privacy would be broken nor that people would not be concidered innocent. Right now, you agree to get your bags inspected when you enter an airplane, or (at least in Israel) enter a shopping mall. A cop stopping you by the road can test your breath for alcohol even if he has no reason to suspect you might have been drinking. Remember - "innocent until proven guilty" still needs to give the law enforcement the ability to try to prove that you are guilty.
If privacy is the matter, this could have many solutions. For instance, the randomly chosen computers could be picked up, brought to the "lab" where they would have anonymous tags. There would be strict restrictions on what the person scanning the computer could look through (for example, he will not be allowed to read your e-mails etc.) Even better, a program could scan the computer for illegal software and could be entirely automated, and not allowed to keep any personal information on the scanned files.
These are just a few simple solutions I thought of in a few seconds. I'm sure if people seriously gave it thought they'd find much better solutions which allow people to keep their privacy, while also easily allowing the law to be enforced.
I don't know what's the deal in the US or anywhere else, but at least in Israel it's a real plague. Most people I know have many gigas of illegal software on their computer. I'm sure the value of all this software can sum up to a lot of money. Actually, most people have a principal not to buy any software. Even when you buy a new computer, it is usually delivered already with a pirated copy of windows, Office, some cd burning program, some games etc. I think the way it's going right now, it DOES deserve such a "witch hunt".
the only problem is............there is no way to stop it (other than extinguishing all life on planet earth, but that is another topic) and where there is a will there is a way, and no ammount of security or anti theft measures will keep a determined perp from getting a free pass..............because everything has a weak spot, and after a while you are just wasting time and money trying to secure something. and after a while you will actually have wasted more money on extra useless security measues than what the thieves would have made away with
it is a paradox, and everyone has their side.............and neither side is actually right, just like the chicken and the egg story
All jokes and tangents aside. The last thing that I want to see is this line of morality allowing the immoral free reign on the masses, innocent or guilty.
Lets say in these scans they happen to take liberties, and find a dvd player that you bought at a local flea market. This dvd player matches the serial number of a shipment/or unit that was actually stolen. Would you like the hassles and invasions of your privacy or the possibility of fines or imprisonment for purchasing a dvd player second hand as opposed to one of the corporations sponsoring the searches?
In those of us who are lucky enough to live free countries we should not ever blindly give up the freedoms and rights we hold dear. What may seem like an innocent invasion of our privacy for the greater good will always eventually be manipulated by people who will use it for their own gain and greater control over the individual.
Maybe I'm crazy but I DO NOT think a witch hunt is in order. Is piracy a problem... absolutely! But does it warrant me giving up my freedoms. No I'm sorry but my freedom is worth far more then partial loss of revenue.
We need to focus more on solutions and alternatives then police state solutions.
But I digress. Piracy is morally questionable but is unfortunately here to stay. I will always support those worthy of supporting. I break my back for every dollar I earn and I want it to go towards those who do the same. If telltale games is going to bring me genuine quality product and great escape from my daily grind then they have done what is needed to earn my patronage. At least there seems to be a future in the anti-piracy field.
And note that in both these cases there's at least a certain amount of choice from my side. It's not like someone can come into my house and confiscate my possessions to check if I might be guilty of something, without having any prior reason to think so; that'd be plain outrageous.
About the cop example: maybe. I'd start to think I was living in a police state if they just pulled people over without any particular reason, though.
About that last line, there is an order in which things are supposed to go you know. The first step is for the authorities to suspect your guilty of something. The second step is to investigate, possibly intruding on your privacy insofar as that is balanced against the weight of the suspicions and the weight of the crime you are suspected of, as determined by a judge and/or preset policy. I realize that in the modern world there is an increasing tendency to reverse these steps, first violating everyone's privacy and then using that information to determine who is suspected of something. IMO this tendency is greatly alarming, threatens to undermine our rights, and should definitely be halted.
And would you trust your government to abide by such restrictions? I wouldn't trust mine to, and nobody should have to trust theirs. The authorities shouldn't be able to arbitrarily take your computer away, not unless there is enough suspicion of a sufficiently bad crime that any violation of privacy which may result (and any risk thereof which may be incurred) is justified.
The part where shops package illegal software does sound quite bad, but also quite easily dealt with. Surely the police can simply buy such a computer, inspect it, then arrest the shopkeeper for distributing pirated software? From what you're writing I get the impression that the real problem your having in Israel is that no-one takes piracy seriously enough to be inclined to do anything about it. But then what you need is not new investigation methods (which'll go just as unused) but merely a wake-up call. If people reported these most flagrant distributors of pirate software to the police and they properly used the methods available to them now you could make the problem diminish drastically without resorting to any invasive investigation techniques.
And I don't believe that "the way it's going right now" can be a valid justification, not unless society is being threatened. Most crimes would threaten society if widespread like that (which is typically why they're illegal in the first place), but here I would doubt that. In any case, any new invasive means you choose to implement must be balanced against the threat to society that your avoiding, and existing means must always be brought to bear first. In my opinion, the kind of massive confiscation of computers you're talking about would be much more threatening, costly, and disruptive to society than software piracy.
I didn't actually mean random confuscation of computers by the police is the best / a valid solution. I understand there are tons of problems with this solution, and you raise legitimate questions, the answer to which should be thought out. I still think saying "nothing can be done to enforce pirating" is giving up too fast, and I just wanted to point out that it IS possible to enforce pirating.
Yarr! Avast ye, mateys! Ye landlubbers shall walk the plank for that! A pirate's life for me, yo ho ho, Davey Jones' locker, etc. etc.!
Well then, about enforcement: History shows us (at least) two things about software piracy. The first is that copy-protection accomplishes next to nothing. The second is that P2P networks (and, indeed, popular underground sites) are here to stay, there being always multiple replacements at the ready when one gets shot down.
I'll consider withdrawing one or both of these statements if someone can come up with even a single success in these that wasn't short-lived. But, given that they are both true, I think you can't stop people from using pirated software if they want to, not without resorting to measures that are far out of proportion to the issue at hand.
What you can and should do is take it out of the public area. Shops carrying illegal software as you describe sounds absurd and obviously shouldn't be acceptable. While I believe that in most cases downloading pirated software is not much more morally reprehensible than a vice, even vices are things you keep to yourself, not things you proudly do "out of principle" (:eek:).
Sorry for going into rant mode again, I think I'll just drop out of this thread now
... How about, 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Software Piracy'? or 'Blane's a pretty cool guy. Andie's pretty in pink. And Ducky's just pirated Sam and Max episode 4'?
That's brilliant! Talk about incentive to buy the game! Get cozy, play a while, then BAM!
"Oh look, you pirated this - be a sport and buy the real one? Or you'll have wasted ten hours you'll never get back, and have followed a plot you'll never finish hearing about."
Awesome! I'd say there are supporters already dunking the cyanide in the well!
(Maybe further attacks could be with Britney Spears music videos, Nsync ones, Jessica Simpson's music or TV show, Paris - not THAT video - just some brain destroying episode of "The simple life"?)
There might be laws against that kind of brutality...