well apart from the whole debate about piracy i must say that im happy to add a crack to the cd when im gonna put it into storage. who knows if the activation servers will be online when im gonna show it to my kids in 30 years or so.
people who buy it buy it, who dont dont, but any non major publication will propably just gain from being spread because it might lead to purchases in the end.
Actully most people are wrong. Most people who download illigal is to try and then buy.. I myself offen do this.. Offcourse telltale is pretty good a releasing demos of the episodes...
But from my (local sources) i have not yet seen Episode 2 on the net, also most groups doesnt even touch games from small companies. Offcourse someone allways will release in the end. So i doubt telltale needs to be worried.
I cant wait to get my cd when season 1 is complete
As an amateur reverse code engineer I can tell it is a shame to pirate's such products. As said before almost all the ingredients are here to avoid piracy. Our heroes Sam & Max, some protections, and a low price.
But be careful, the protection used in the second EP is very easy to attack, that's a classical protection target for confirmed crackers.
I also understand that the game protection could be a big charge, that's actually the problem of little applications imho.
I wonder if there is a special part of the development team wrking on security sheme, or is it something else ?
At last but not least, I'd like to thank you ppl from Telltale for the job done, that's pretty wonderful. You make fan's dream a reality.
Please be very carefull about jokes regarding "those bad software pirates". From a software producers point of view, cracking a game's protection is always a bad thing and joking about the bad guys may seem tempting.
But to many people, software companies are less sympathic and attacking them sounds not so bad. So you can end up quickly beeing just the boring teacher with the waving forefinger.
(Before anyone starts to attack me: I am a software developer too. I just want prevent yet another lame ingame joke referencing "bad pirates" that kills atmosphere ;-)
Hmmm... I think the pirates of pestulon were not really "software pirates" but rather a big software company making software games. The whole scenario was meant as a parody of Sierra itself and not of software pirates.
Please be very carefull about jokes regarding "those bad software pirates". From a software producers point of view, cracking a game's protection is always a bad thing and joking about the bad guys may seem tempting.
I second that opinion, usually crackers only need some motivation to attack a video game. A famous protection, a famous title or simply a company reputed for hate against pirates. This is only a matter of challenge.
I was wondering, will the CD Version still require online activation or will inserting the CD be sufficient?
I think it's a serious archiving issue because, as mentioned earlier, no activation service can be guaranteed to last forever.
That's why i don't buy DRMed stuff - You don't actually own it and depend on the good-will (and existence) of a company.
But i could not resist to buy Sam&Max Series 1, especially because i want to support telltale in resurrecting the game genre i spent my childhood with.
Furthermore, will i have to pay bazillions of dollars to get the CD shipped to Germany, because i bought S1 in the telltale store, or will there be a way to get the CD for less shipping costs from a German distributor, once there is one?
This is Sam and Max folks, they've gone and made fun of Scientology (which has a record of getting episodes of shows making fun of it banned), sitcoms, game shows, cooking shows, Oprah, the O'Reilly Factor, and the Weekly World News in one episode alone, along with one-off snide jokes about Tom Hanks, the Cosby Show/Small Wonder, and assorted other American entertainment culture elements. As always, it's done in a tongue-in-cheek vein. Surely you don't think that some sarcastic remark about how X video game company went bankrupt because people refused to buy its $6 games (or some other tongue in cheek comment) can be taken that seriously can you?
This is Sam and Max folks, they've gone and made fun of Scientology (which has a record of getting episodes of shows making fun of it banned), sitcoms, game shows, cooking shows, Oprah, the O'Reilly Factor, and the Weekly World News in one episode alone, along with one-off snide jokes about Tom Hanks, the Cosby Show/Small Wonder, and assorted other American entertainment culture elements. As always, it's done in a tongue-in-cheek vein/ Surely you don't think that some sarcastic remark about how X video game company went bankrupt because people refused to buy his $6 games (or some other tongue in cheek comment) can be taken that seriously can you?
I think Myra is also based on Rosie O' Donnell because of he accent and Rosie also had her own talk show
to be honest i downloaded episode one from a p2p network. but shortly after i ended up prepaying for the entire season. as long as people realize that tell tale games (aka independent publisher) is the company making sam n max and not crappy lucasarts, i think most fans will pay for the episodes.
the file thats floating around is the demo with a crack to unlock it. but the funny thing is the crack doesnt work very well and most people on the p2p site have posted complaints that they cant get it to work or that it's broken. lol.
I don't have much money so whether it's music or games or whatever I do rip off some stuff. But I also support the stuff I really like, especially if it's not a big money maker. I was happy to buy season 1 because I want to play season ten, and if not enough people buy season 1 there won't be a season 10! Also the games are great value now, imagine how great they could make them if they sell twice as much as they expected and can spend more on development!
to be honest i downloaded episode one from a p2p network. but shortly after i ended up prepaying for the entire season. as long as people realize that tell tale games (aka independent publisher) is the company making sam n max and not crappy lucasarts, i think most fans will pay for the episodes.
the file thats floating around is the demo with a crack to unlock it. but the funny thing is the crack doesnt work very well and most people on the p2p site have posted complaints that they cant get it to work or that it's broken. lol.
I did the same thing, but I too am going to buy the season package, I cannot in all good conscience rip Telltale off, and I wouldn't want to anyway. Only reason I downloaded episode 1 from a torrent site was to see how it would run on my machine. (I wasn't aware that there was a demo version at the time)
1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, because it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.
Another reason, as others have pointed out, is to bypass DRM. Many people have pirated Windows XP simply because they don't want the hassle of Product Activation every time they modify their PC's hardware. Other apps and games get pirated only because the user doesn't want harmful Starforce drivers or rootkits on their computer, or because they don't want software that stealthily connects to remote servers to gather system info.
There's also the issue of availability. A few years ago, Empire released an expansion pack that worked only on the UK version of their game. How many Americans have the money or resources to place an online order for a foreign copy of a game they already own? And even if they did, would they be willing to if it could be easily downloaded? Not me.
This applies to music as well. New songs are played on radio well in advance of the CD's release date. You won't find the CD in the stores but you can always find an advance promo copy illegally available on the internet.
Good point, I for one avoided StarForce-protected software at all costs, that was a true travesty.
On another note, abandonware is, in my opinion, a perfectly acceptable form of piracy. It's a hot debate, but why make it illegal to download software that is nigh-impossible to get otherwise, and usually developed by companies that have long since gone under, or have simply stopped supporting the software?
I am simply happy, that Sam&Max have revived from dead!
For the sake of it I have issued a credit card (usually it here is absolutely not necessary - we pay cash) and have bought 1 season.
I live in Russia.
You know, that Russia - the country of computer pirates (it is the truth! Any DVD (films, games, music) costs at us $3 for disk), but I have (certainly) got game here.
If want, I can tell to you motives of the people buying piracy production.
This applies to music as well. New songs are played on radio well in advance of the CD's release date. You won't find the CD in the stores but you can always find an advance promo copy illegally available on the internet.
Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?
Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?
No. I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just commenting on the advance copies that seem to spread rather quickly, and am wondering if people might more willing to purchase music if it was actually available in stores at the time they wanted it.
Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?
I was wondering, what's the general concensus about abandonware around Telltale? I've always wanted to get an opinion straight from the horse's mouth (sorry for the unflattering catchphrase lol), but I've never convinced any developers to give an interview.
Given that the term "Abandonware" can to one person mean "A 25 year old game that only runs on some embedded circuit that hasn't been manufactured in a decade and would actually crumble to dust if left out in polluted 21st century air," and to another can mean "An old game I want to play so I'll just use a term other than 'pirating it' so I can feel slightly better about myself," I'm sure opinions are mixed.
A good example are the old Apogee games, like Commander Keen, and so forth. They're a staple of abandonware sites, and yet they're all still available in demo form for sale from 3d realms: http://www.3drealms.com/downloads.html
By "abandonware", I mean a game that can no longer be purchased through legit means, unless some store just happens to have a copy in a bargain bin underneath all the copies of Superman 64 and Celebrity Deathmatch, and is no longer supported or profitable to the company.
3D Realms, of course, rarely stops sales of their titles, since us Apogee fans are rabid collectors :P
Anyway, to the meat of my post: I'm pro-abandonware, IF the game or app falls under the above definition. But as tabacco says, most abandonware sites, whether unknowingly or purposefully, tend to have a few warez titles mixed in.
I find that a good solution is to contact the companies in question (if they still exist), and just plain ask if they mind. I've found that more often than not, they're fine with it, since even if the person was lucky enough to find a legit copy, the company themselves wouldn't see a cent.
Anyhoo, that's just my two cents, most forums get violent with rage at the very hint of the word "abandonware", so I just decided to speak my piece on it at a more civil one :P
I think I can actually explain pretty well why piracy is so popular, at least here in Israel (I don't know how popular it is in other parts of the globe)
1) There isn't ANY regulation, meaning you can copy as many games/software as you want and never get any punishment (unless you're a big company).
2) Buying games is considered VERY UNPOPULAR and is actually quite DEGRADING (meaning - you are actually made to feel ashamed of paying for games). This is, of course, absurd, because it's supposed to be the other way around - society is supposed to condemn the immoral acts. I think this is best clarified by another situation which is exactly the other way around:
automatic tipping, which is actually a pretty illogical way of getting the customers to pay for the service (which the restaurant is supposed to supply anyway) succeeds because society condemns not-tipping. (meaning - if I sit at a restaurant with friends, and I don't pay a tip, I will be made to feel ashamed of it). When you eat at a fancy restaurant, the cost of the tip can sometime reach the cost of a Sam&Max episode, and EVERYONE WILL PAY IT, even though it's neither very logical or enforced by law.
Right now, by paying for games, I turn out a sucker on both aspects - I both have to pay much more for the same experience as anyone who downloaded the game, and I also lose my friends' respect.
I think if we really want piracy to stop, we should get to a point where a person will be BANNED FROM SOCIETY for pirating games. Meaning - we should treat a game pirate the same way we would treat someone we just saw shoplifting. As it stands now, the few people who actually buy games can not afford to actually ban pirates, since they compose 99% of society. That's why I think it's more reasonable to solve point 1 first (actually regulting the laws against copying games - meaning if stolen games would be found on people's hard-drive they will be put in jail) and then when the rate of pirates in society will lower, we could begin actually banning pirates.
*cough* I must admit i first illegaly downloaded Sam & Max EP1 to see what the fuss was about, but i think that anyone in their right mind would so as me and buy it afterwards. I mean, with a solid game at a low price like that even broke guys like me are willing to spend some moolah.
Now, when the CD comes out, thats a different story... theres pretty much defenetly gonna be a pirating issue there. Myself, i'll stick to buying it.
Why will there be a piracy issue when the CD currently costs users less money than buying episodes individually, which is already, as you said, a price so low even broke guys like you can afford it?
Why will there be a piracy issue when the CD currently costs users less money than buying episodes individually, which is already, as you said, a price so low even broke guys like you can afford it?
Well, not necessarily. International shipping can be quite a lot of money...
Given that the term "Abandonware" can to one person mean "A 25 year old game that only runs on some embedded circuit that hasn't been manufactured in a decade and would actually crumble to dust if left out in polluted 21st century air," and to another can mean "An old game I want to play so I'll just use a term other than 'pirating it' so I can feel slightly better about myself," I'm sure opinions are mixed.
True. I think there is another term of "Abandonware" since this applies to me when hearing the word. I think of "abandonware" as old games I cannot buy at all because of inflated ebay prices and rarity. For example, the 1993? Pc engine castlevania game, Dracula X, is both rare and expensive whereas it cost around 100 bucks. This especially applies to adventure games since most of them tend to reach the 100 mark like the Leisure suit Larry collection released by Sierra of old and rare games like Sam and Max Hit the road for the pc(I am kicking myself for not buying a brand new one [to replace my non functioning one] for 2 bucks at the computer show years ago. However, I might end up getting that one Lucas Arts demo that came out two? years ago since it comes with the full version of Sam and Max)
If I can find the game for a fair price, I would buy it. I have three Quest for Glory 4 copies simply because whenever I want to play it, I can't find my copy, so I end up buying one and finding the other copy later. LOL
and rare games like Sam and Max Hit the road for the pc
I bought my copy of Sam and Max Hit the Road on Ebay last year for $10 shipped. If you're patient (and you don't care about original boxes and manuals in mint condition), you can get pretty decent deals.
I bought my copy of Sam and Max Hit the Road on Ebay last year for $10 shipped. If you're patient (and you don't care about original boxes and manuals in mint condition), you can get pretty decent deals.
Ah, Cool. I was just looking for it on ebay and the search (like always) comes up with the mac version. Guess I will be patient
The really sad part is that because of the greed of the music industry, the pirating of software/music etc, has become more mainstream than ever before.
In fact I was reading in some audiophile forums I visit regularly that a whole host of people who would never have considered it before have vowed to only purchase used music cd's and or download mp3's illegally from now on because of how Microsoft caved in and signed a deal with Universal Music to pay them $1.00 for every Zune sold. Of course it could have had something to do with the fact that the CEO of Universal Music called everyone who owns a Digital Audio Player a thief who uses their players for the storage of illegally obtained music. heh.
It's sort of sad really. There are a lot of young people out there today that truly don't believe file sharing is illegal at all. heh. That's how bad it's gotten.
Note to Vastgirth:The reason why it took so long for S&M to be cracked is because adventure games aren't that popular, even among software pirates.
Note to Guybrush:There is nothing that a company like Telltale games can do to stop piracy. Microsoft has spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing anti-piracy techniques over the last decade and still hasn't been able to stop it. (Though I think it's crazy stupid for anyone to use a pirated copy of an OS, I guess there's some really crazy stupid people out there). The only thing that can be done to stop it is to account for it in the basic business model.
Though I tend to think that when you are selling boxed copies of games especially, including special stuff like concept art, or something like the little "manny" you got with Grim Fandango will help to limit it as well.
ok i will be honest, i reguarly pirate software. However i always buy games which i think are worth it, such as gothic 3, oblivion, and of course sam and max! Afterall ive been waiting for years for this game of course im going to buy it. (or in this case, pre-order the entire series) You have to support the developers if you want to see more games!
Anyway the point of this post is that the game wasn't actually successfully cracked until the 10th of November, 9 days after the official release and many days after the gametap one. This is VERY late for a cracked release and i imagine will have helped sales of the game a lot.
Why this was, i don't know. maybe the copy protection is good, or perhaps sam and max holds such a special place in the hearts of gamers that the faster crackers didn't crack it...
Anyway i hope it sells loads and leaves a very bitter taste in lucasarts' mouth!
I guess, all these unfortunate people living on a few cents per hour in 3rd world countries are criminals because they can't afford legit software. :rolleyes:
There is no DRM schema in this world, which will stop piracy, simply because the problem is not within the pirates, but with the software industry's fundamentally flawed business model (which, by the way, assumes zero-day piracy).
DRM is not here to curb the piracy. It's here to maximize the paying potential from a small group of users, who are technically challenged and don't know how to obtain and install cracked software. Guess what, most gamers don't fall in this category by far, especially adventure gamers. So all this DRM effort is laughable at best.
The real breakthrough will come when the business geniuses pushing DRM realize that it does little to change the ratio between those who pay and those who pirate. Once they start researching the needs of this second group, they will realize that there is actually a virgin market, much larger than the existing one, waiting to be saturated. (Nobel prize anyone?)
Maybe Telltale should start considering to make out of games 2 different files: a small sized one for the demo version, and the complete one to be given through a link just to the ones who have already bought the game.
Since everyone on this forum loves and supports Telltale, it'd be very hard that one of us lets the complete game available for P2P and, more generally, file sharing programs.
Doing this, piracy against their games can be at least slowed down, probably not defeated (that's just impossible).
If they don't have the whole game, they can't crack it up.
What do you think?
I think that rapidhsare provide free downloads for less than 100MB files. In fact, if you want something, you can have it. As I can have every Bone episode free, I can also have Sam&max free... I can donwload it from the mainsite, but also on P2P or many other locations. If you want something free, you can have it. Lots of people pirating won't buy anything. If they can't obtain it, they forget and donwload something else. I know this with music, sometime I let people hear songs on my iPod "sounds great, could you give it to me ?" "nop, it's under DRM, you must buy it, it's less than 1€" "Nonsense, I'll download it on ——— ". Then, he doesn't find the file... nevermind, he forget. Just 1€ (≈1$). Less than a subway ticket, less than 1/5 of a beer at the pub. Just because it costs something, it's too expansive, that's all... sad, yes it is...
In jokes would be great however
Ok, I think until somebody figures out how to stop pirates permanently; it will continue to happen on any big games. It does matter how popular the games are to the pirates all they care about it getting it out so they can steal your ip, personal information or give you a virus. Others might actually give you a full copy of something with no strings attached, and they just make money on ads or on visits to the site etc. But I bet you, anywhere anybody goes to get anything illegally, IP info will be stored, and Google supposedly stores your search records and lets not forget the amazing data restoring powers of the FBI....
Why will there be a piracy issue when the CD currently costs users less money than buying episodes individually, which is already, as you said, a price so low even broke guys like you can afford it?
Because some people with more times on their hands then whats good for them will allways go ahead and rip it and crack it once it hits cd format. And for those with little moolah, particularly to young to have a job yet, springing for a full game isnt allways an option (as opposed to buying one episode as it comes out, then waiting a month or two for the next) even though it would be cheaper in the long run.
2) Buying games is considered VERY UNPOPULAR and is actually quite DEGRADING (meaning - you are actually made to feel ashamed of paying for games). This is, of course, absurd, because it's supposed to be the other way around - society is supposed to condemn the immoral acts. I think this is best clarified by another situation which is exactly the other way around:
automatic tipping, which is actually a pretty illogical way of getting the customers to pay for the service (which the restaurant is supposed to supply anyway) succeeds because society condemns not-tipping. (meaning - if I sit at a restaurant with friends, and I don't pay a tip, I will be made to feel ashamed of it). When you eat at a fancy restaurant, the cost of the tip can sometime reach the cost of a Sam&Max episode, and EVERYONE WILL PAY IT, even though it's neither very logical or enforced by law.
This is a really interesting point. I never really thought about it this way, but you're right, a lot of what people will/won't pay for has to do with what society accepts or doesn't accept. The fact is that right now, software piracy is generally considered okay, even though it's no different than walking out of a store with something you didn't pay for in your pocket. It makes me wonder how we got to this point.
The fact is that right now, software piracy is generally considered okay, even though it's no different than walking out of a store with something you didn't pay for in your pocket. It makes me wonder how we got to this point.
Software piracy is a victimless crime. Like punching somebody in the dark
Anyway. From joke to serious. Will the disc version of Sam & Max need to be activated towards a server? I really think it would be wise to rather use a copy protection on the disc rather than have some sort of activating there.
I am a die hard classic gamer. I love classics, and I think: what if the activation server is shut down for some mysterious reason(it has happend before with other projects) such reasons as not enough money to support the project, or the producer no longer see the potential in giving support to "that old game". If that happens, we who bought it will suddenly be stuck with an expensive table coaster/beerrag. I gladly pay for this game, but I want to be able to play the game even 10 years from now.
So here's my question. Have you guys decided yet if you will use activation towards a server when this season of sam & max is released on dvd/cd? Or will there be a "normal" copy protection making sure people use a original cd/dvd - which can protect my right to play this game in 10 years(even if gametap goes bankrupt)? Because if the dvd/cd version will be using an activation server, then people will have to crack their games to play them 10 years from now... which kind of sucks, when we have played fair and square to get the game.
Outside of that. I think there are certain situations when piracy can be argued for ethically. Personally I think software piracy is ok if one just wants to try before one buys, and it's ok too if one does it to protect ones own right to take backups of ones own software. Another case is with software it's impossible to get anymore. When the company no longer exist, and nobody really knows who owns the right for the software or game anymore, then I don't really see the big problem in copying it. I know the problem of piracy has been big ever since the PC saw the face of the earth, and that it annoys the hell out of publishers who try to protect their investments. But I just think there are solutions where everybody can be happy and getting what they want. These days the hunt for software piracy has turned into something of a witch hunt. I don't think sueing and threatening people who copies stuff is the way to go. That's instead the best way to get them to do it even more. Then it's easy to make up excuses to do it, and even turn it into a political battle.
The Bone CD versions use a serial number instead of order number / activation key / auto-activate on purchase and that sort of thing, and they are not at all a hassle to use.
The Bone CDs do check your serial number against a master server to make sure that the serial you entered is valid, and isn't just a number you got from a known cracklist online, but its a far less extreme or involved process than the one that's used with the downloadable games, and is a method used by games dating back to things like Quake 3 in 1999. I imagine we'll be doing something similar for the Sam & Max CDs, though what we'll be doing for sure hasn't been decided yet.
I couldn't tell you? You won't be able to play Quake 3 if id software's goes down, or activate your copy of Windows XP if Microsoft stops supporting Windows Genuine Advantage. Or, if you lose your Day of the Tentacle instruction manual you'll never be able to build the superbattery, unless you wait 15 years for someone to write an emulator that bypasses the copy protection.
Fortunately, as I've said a ton of times, Telltale is not staffed by a team faceless robots that will all suddenly switch off if for some reason the company does go out of business someday in the future. It's actually staffed by a large group of independently-minded human beings who really like these games. Even if the main activation server were ever to go offline, there are other ways, built into the software, that those same human beings could use to communicate a new activation/unlock method to users.
Or, if you lose your Day of the Tentacle instruction manual you'll never be able to build the superbattery, unless you wait 15 years for someone to write an emulator that bypasses the copy protection.
Ummmmm.... The CD version of Day of the Tentacle and Sam & Max did not have copy protection. Only the floppies did. I bought the floppies first, then found out about the Talkie CD versions a couple of weeks later. Sold the floppies and bought the CDs.
Anyways, the emulator in question does not promote bypassing the copy protection. You will not be able to buy the floppy versions, and the CD versions you can still buy, have no copy protection.
I own every Lucas Arts, Adventuresoft (except Simon 3) and Infocom (yeah, I'm an antique) adventure. I am quite happy that I can now play them again without hassles with emulators.
Comments
people who buy it buy it, who dont dont, but any non major publication will propably just gain from being spread because it might lead to purchases in the end.
But from my (local sources) i have not yet seen Episode 2 on the net, also most groups doesnt even touch games from small companies. Offcourse someone allways will release in the end. So i doubt telltale needs to be worried.
I cant wait to get my cd when season 1 is complete
But be careful, the protection used in the second EP is very easy to attack, that's a classical protection target for confirmed crackers.
I also understand that the game protection could be a big charge, that's actually the problem of little applications imho.
I wonder if there is a special part of the development team wrking on security sheme, or is it something else ?
At last but not least, I'd like to thank you ppl from Telltale for the job done, that's pretty wonderful. You make fan's dream a reality.
Please be very carefull about jokes regarding "those bad software pirates". From a software producers point of view, cracking a game's protection is always a bad thing and joking about the bad guys may seem tempting.
But to many people, software companies are less sympathic and attacking them sounds not so bad. So you can end up quickly beeing just the boring teacher with the waving forefinger.
(Before anyone starts to attack me: I am a software developer too. I just want prevent yet another lame ingame joke referencing "bad pirates" that kills atmosphere ;-)
Imi.
I second that opinion, usually crackers only need some motivation to attack a video game. A famous protection, a famous title or simply a company reputed for hate against pirates. This is only a matter of challenge.
I think it's a serious archiving issue because, as mentioned earlier, no activation service can be guaranteed to last forever.
That's why i don't buy DRMed stuff - You don't actually own it and depend on the good-will (and existence) of a company.
But i could not resist to buy Sam&Max Series 1, especially because i want to support telltale in resurrecting the game genre i spent my childhood with.
Furthermore, will i have to pay bazillions of dollars to get the CD shipped to Germany, because i bought S1 in the telltale store, or will there be a way to get the CD for less shipping costs from a German distributor, once there is one?
I think Myra is also based on Rosie O' Donnell because of he accent and Rosie also had her own talk show
the file thats floating around is the demo with a crack to unlock it. but the funny thing is the crack doesnt work very well and most people on the p2p site have posted complaints that they cant get it to work or that it's broken. lol.
I did the same thing, but I too am going to buy the season package, I cannot in all good conscience rip Telltale off, and I wouldn't want to anyway. Only reason I downloaded episode 1 from a torrent site was to see how it would run on my machine. (I wasn't aware that there was a demo version at the time)
EDIT: And yes, I deleted it after testing it :P
Another reason, as others have pointed out, is to bypass DRM. Many people have pirated Windows XP simply because they don't want the hassle of Product Activation every time they modify their PC's hardware. Other apps and games get pirated only because the user doesn't want harmful Starforce drivers or rootkits on their computer, or because they don't want software that stealthily connects to remote servers to gather system info.
There's also the issue of availability. A few years ago, Empire released an expansion pack that worked only on the UK version of their game. How many Americans have the money or resources to place an online order for a foreign copy of a game they already own? And even if they did, would they be willing to if it could be easily downloaded? Not me.
This applies to music as well. New songs are played on radio well in advance of the CD's release date. You won't find the CD in the stores but you can always find an advance promo copy illegally available on the internet.
On another note, abandonware is, in my opinion, a perfectly acceptable form of piracy. It's a hot debate, but why make it illegal to download software that is nigh-impossible to get otherwise, and usually developed by companies that have long since gone under, or have simply stopped supporting the software?
For the sake of it I have issued a credit card (usually it here is absolutely not necessary - we pay cash) and have bought 1 season.
I live in Russia.
You know, that Russia - the country of computer pirates (it is the truth! Any DVD (films, games, music) costs at us $3 for disk), but I have (certainly) got game here.
If want, I can tell to you motives of the people buying piracy production.
P.S. Sorry for my... hm... English.
Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?
No. I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just commenting on the advance copies that seem to spread rather quickly, and am wondering if people might more willing to purchase music if it was actually available in stores at the time they wanted it.
I was wondering, what's the general concensus about abandonware around Telltale? I've always wanted to get an opinion straight from the horse's mouth (sorry for the unflattering catchphrase lol), but I've never convinced any developers to give an interview.
http://www.3drealms.com/downloads.html
3D Realms, of course, rarely stops sales of their titles, since us Apogee fans are rabid collectors :P
Anyway, to the meat of my post: I'm pro-abandonware, IF the game or app falls under the above definition. But as tabacco says, most abandonware sites, whether unknowingly or purposefully, tend to have a few warez titles mixed in.
I find that a good solution is to contact the companies in question (if they still exist), and just plain ask if they mind. I've found that more often than not, they're fine with it, since even if the person was lucky enough to find a legit copy, the company themselves wouldn't see a cent.
Anyhoo, that's just my two cents, most forums get violent with rage at the very hint of the word "abandonware", so I just decided to speak my piece on it at a more civil one :P
1) There isn't ANY regulation, meaning you can copy as many games/software as you want and never get any punishment (unless you're a big company).
2) Buying games is considered VERY UNPOPULAR and is actually quite DEGRADING (meaning - you are actually made to feel ashamed of paying for games). This is, of course, absurd, because it's supposed to be the other way around - society is supposed to condemn the immoral acts. I think this is best clarified by another situation which is exactly the other way around:
automatic tipping, which is actually a pretty illogical way of getting the customers to pay for the service (which the restaurant is supposed to supply anyway) succeeds because society condemns not-tipping. (meaning - if I sit at a restaurant with friends, and I don't pay a tip, I will be made to feel ashamed of it). When you eat at a fancy restaurant, the cost of the tip can sometime reach the cost of a Sam&Max episode, and EVERYONE WILL PAY IT, even though it's neither very logical or enforced by law.
Right now, by paying for games, I turn out a sucker on both aspects - I both have to pay much more for the same experience as anyone who downloaded the game, and I also lose my friends' respect.
I think if we really want piracy to stop, we should get to a point where a person will be BANNED FROM SOCIETY for pirating games. Meaning - we should treat a game pirate the same way we would treat someone we just saw shoplifting. As it stands now, the few people who actually buy games can not afford to actually ban pirates, since they compose 99% of society. That's why I think it's more reasonable to solve point 1 first (actually regulting the laws against copying games - meaning if stolen games would be found on people's hard-drive they will be put in jail) and then when the rate of pirates in society will lower, we could begin actually banning pirates.
Now, when the CD comes out, thats a different story... theres pretty much defenetly gonna be a pirating issue there. Myself, i'll stick to buying it.
Well, not necessarily. International shipping can be quite a lot of money...
True. I think there is another term of "Abandonware" since this applies to me when hearing the word. I think of "abandonware" as old games I cannot buy at all because of inflated ebay prices and rarity. For example, the 1993? Pc engine castlevania game, Dracula X, is both rare and expensive whereas it cost around 100 bucks. This especially applies to adventure games since most of them tend to reach the 100 mark like the Leisure suit Larry collection released by Sierra of old and rare games like Sam and Max Hit the road for the pc(I am kicking myself for not buying a brand new one [to replace my non functioning one] for 2 bucks at the computer show years ago. However, I might end up getting that one Lucas Arts demo that came out two? years ago since it comes with the full version of Sam and Max)
If I can find the game for a fair price, I would buy it. I have three Quest for Glory 4 copies simply because whenever I want to play it, I can't find my copy, so I end up buying one and finding the other copy later. LOL
I bought my copy of Sam and Max Hit the Road on Ebay last year for $10 shipped. If you're patient (and you don't care about original boxes and manuals in mint condition), you can get pretty decent deals.
Ah, Cool. I was just looking for it on ebay and the search (like always) comes up with the mac version. Guess I will be patient
Ok, I think until somebody figures out how to stop pirates permanently; it will continue to happen on any big games. It does matter how popular the games are to the pirates all they care about it getting it out so they can steal your ip, personal information or give you a virus. Others might actually give you a full copy of something with no strings attached, and they just make money on ads or on visits to the site etc. But I bet you, anywhere anybody goes to get anything illegally, IP info will be stored, and Google supposedly stores your search records and lets not forget the amazing data restoring powers of the FBI....
Because some people with more times on their hands then whats good for them will allways go ahead and rip it and crack it once it hits cd format. And for those with little moolah, particularly to young to have a job yet, springing for a full game isnt allways an option (as opposed to buying one episode as it comes out, then waiting a month or two for the next) even though it would be cheaper in the long run.
This is a really interesting point. I never really thought about it this way, but you're right, a lot of what people will/won't pay for has to do with what society accepts or doesn't accept. The fact is that right now, software piracy is generally considered okay, even though it's no different than walking out of a store with something you didn't pay for in your pocket. It makes me wonder how we got to this point.
I find this to be the case with a lot of things, especially music CDs and games. Sad, but true.
It makes doing the right thing even harder.
Software piracy is a victimless crime. Like punching somebody in the dark
Anyway. From joke to serious. Will the disc version of Sam & Max need to be activated towards a server? I really think it would be wise to rather use a copy protection on the disc rather than have some sort of activating there.
I am a die hard classic gamer. I love classics, and I think: what if the activation server is shut down for some mysterious reason(it has happend before with other projects) such reasons as not enough money to support the project, or the producer no longer see the potential in giving support to "that old game". If that happens, we who bought it will suddenly be stuck with an expensive table coaster/beerrag. I gladly pay for this game, but I want to be able to play the game even 10 years from now.
So here's my question. Have you guys decided yet if you will use activation towards a server when this season of sam & max is released on dvd/cd? Or will there be a "normal" copy protection making sure people use a original cd/dvd - which can protect my right to play this game in 10 years(even if gametap goes bankrupt)? Because if the dvd/cd version will be using an activation server, then people will have to crack their games to play them 10 years from now... which kind of sucks, when we have played fair and square to get the game.
Outside of that. I think there are certain situations when piracy can be argued for ethically. Personally I think software piracy is ok if one just wants to try before one buys, and it's ok too if one does it to protect ones own right to take backups of ones own software. Another case is with software it's impossible to get anymore. When the company no longer exist, and nobody really knows who owns the right for the software or game anymore, then I don't really see the big problem in copying it. I know the problem of piracy has been big ever since the PC saw the face of the earth, and that it annoys the hell out of publishers who try to protect their investments. But I just think there are solutions where everybody can be happy and getting what they want. These days the hunt for software piracy has turned into something of a witch hunt. I don't think sueing and threatening people who copies stuff is the way to go. That's instead the best way to get them to do it even more. Then it's easy to make up excuses to do it, and even turn it into a political battle.
Best regards!
The Bone CDs do check your serial number against a master server to make sure that the serial you entered is valid, and isn't just a number you got from a known cracklist online, but its a far less extreme or involved process than the one that's used with the downloadable games, and is a method used by games dating back to things like Quake 3 in 1999. I imagine we'll be doing something similar for the Sam & Max CDs, though what we'll be doing for sure hasn't been decided yet.
I couldn't tell you? You won't be able to play Quake 3 if id software's goes down, or activate your copy of Windows XP if Microsoft stops supporting Windows Genuine Advantage. Or, if you lose your Day of the Tentacle instruction manual you'll never be able to build the superbattery, unless you wait 15 years for someone to write an emulator that bypasses the copy protection.
Fortunately, as I've said a ton of times, Telltale is not staffed by a team faceless robots that will all suddenly switch off if for some reason the company does go out of business someday in the future. It's actually staffed by a large group of independently-minded human beings who really like these games. Even if the main activation server were ever to go offline, there are other ways, built into the software, that those same human beings could use to communicate a new activation/unlock method to users.
To ensure this, a valid world domination plan should be devised. First we need to devise our initial goals:
How about replacing that redundant search engine everybody uses with Telltale Toogle? A step up from this would be the TTool OS and the TTphone.
The world would be our... I mean your oyster!
Ummmmm.... The CD version of Day of the Tentacle and Sam & Max did not have copy protection. Only the floppies did. I bought the floppies first, then found out about the Talkie CD versions a couple of weeks later. Sold the floppies and bought the CDs.
Anyways, the emulator in question does not promote bypassing the copy protection. You will not be able to buy the floppy versions, and the CD versions you can still buy, have no copy protection.
I own every Lucas Arts, Adventuresoft (except Simon 3) and Infocom (yeah, I'm an antique) adventure. I am quite happy that I can now play them again without hassles with emulators.
D.