How many times does this have to come up?
Telltale is a relatively small company that produces English spoken games.
If the games are picked up in different country's by different publishers, they will translate them, but only AFTER they've been released a while by means of digital distribution.
There are so many threads about this topic, and they all end in the same way...
Sam and Max Season 1 was published as a retail disc/discs in Europe, and it was dubbed in to French and German (IIRC), and other languages were available as subtitles.
Don't know if any of their other games were ever re-voiced in other languages.
How many times does this have to come up?
Telltale is a relatively small company that produces English spoken games.
Not totally true.... Wallace&Gromit were multilanguage... those were the high standard of Microsoft to have multilanguage: maybe that's the reason Telltale abandoned XBOX360 for season 3?
If the games are picked up in different country's by different publishers, they will translate them, but only AFTER they've been released a while by means of digital distribution.
It's strange that they say that they wanna spread the game to the widest audience possible, and then forget about foreign languages (Europe is not enough wide??? ). I know it may be a problem of episodic short-time schedule... but after an episode is out they could have provided external language patch - like some fan site do - and they could sell the additional language patches to cover translations costs.
I know many Italian people who would have bought Tales if only it was in Italian... but Telltale was always faulty about translations (Wallace&gromit aside)... S&M Season 2 is scheduled to be released in MAY (!!!) after more than 2 years of waiting. Yes, I will play Season 3 before Season 2 will be released here...don't you think it's not so great?
There are so many threads about this topic, and they all end in the same way...
And there will be in future if the situation will not change. S&M and TOMI are not like Strong Bad: they have the heritage of huge brands that sold enourmously worldwide in the old days of lucasarts.... so we wanna continue to follow the games.
Translations have always been released a while after the original. Okay, 2 years is a lot, but one year or so is pretty standard. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to release it all at once, that would only mean delaying the English version.
Plus they'd have to hire people for the translations or even the voicing, etc. It's much better that they focus on making games and let whoever picks it in each country take car of the translation.
It's not like it's an easy job dubbing something in a different language, and it's pretty expensive if you want to do it right.
I just don't think it'd be profitable for Telltale to do this.
Telltale makes games for an English speaking audience, they let the dubbing be done by local distributors.
Then there is the fact that, I think, most fans wouldn't want to play a dubbed version.
The reactions to the dubs have mostly been pretty negative, from the voice acting to the overall translations, and I'm telling you, it's gonna take a pretty good dub to get me to play it in dutch, and even then I don't think I could part with the English version.
Then there is the fact that, I think, most fans wouldn't want to play a dubbed version.
The reactions to the dubs have mostly been pretty negative, from the voice acting to the overall translations, and I'm telling you, it's gonna take a pretty good dub to get me to play it in dutch, and even then I don't think I could part with the English version.
I wasn't talking about dubbing, i was talking about subtitles! And yes, I'm waiting for more then 2 years and a half to have only subtitles on Season 2 - no dubbing!!!! Is this great marketing?
I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to release it all at once, that would only mean delaying the English version.
No, I'm talking to release an official language patch after, even at the end of the season... but not 2 years later!
Plus they'd have to hire people for the translations or even the voicing, etc. It's much better that they focus on making games and let whoever picks it in each country take car of the translation.
When you say "let whoever picks it in each country" means that they have to give the game to someone else... so their profit is less. Why Telltale don't take the chance to produce and sell language packs and make all the profit?
That's just an idea - selling subtitles for foreign languages. IE I would buy Italian for 2.99$ at episode.... :P
When you say "let whoever picks it in each country" means that they have to give the game to someone else... so their profit is less. Why Telltale don't take the chance to produce and sell language packs and make all the profit?
Because it's not their job. They'd need to hire someone to translate it anyways (for each language) but on top of that, they probably would have no way to check if the translation is good or terrible. I doubt they speak all of these languages themselves.
It's better for them to leave these things to people whose job it actually is.
I know it may be a problem of episodic short-time schedule... but after an episode is out they could have provided external language patch - like some fan site do - and they could sell the additional language patches to cover translations costs.
And jeopardize the sale of the game rights for international distribution by cannibalizing the market?
What is your problem with a few SUBTITLES in Multilanguage ???
Monekey Island and Sam & max have A LOT OF SPANISH FANS (for example) (Go to www.google.es and find spanish pages of this games). What is your problem ??
I waiting for TWO YEARS .... FU.ck ... TWO YEARS !!!!!! for a spanish subtitles for season 2 of Sam & max ...
Why (the unknown for no english speakers) Wallace & Gromitt is Multilanguage and a very famous game with a lot of fans on the world (First Monkey Island ... and Sam & Max) dont have the subtitles ??.
Why (the unknown for no english speakers) Wallace & Gromitt is Multilanguage and a very famous game with a lot of fans on the world (First Monkey Island ... and Sam & Max) dont have the subtitles ??.
Its only subtitles. not a dubbed version !!
My understanding is that W&G was a special case due to XBLA's requirements. (That said, I'm not 100% sure on who actually did the subtitling. On the other hand, most [all?] of the in-game textures were altered with translations as well.)
Otherwise, Telltale's "problem" is that even with the strides they've made in the past two years, they are still a small company with limited time and resources, and who -- this is important -- make games for a primarily English-speaking audience. While subtitling may be less-resource intensive than dubbing, it's still a huge indertaking. Translation is in many ways more of an art than a science.
Will this change in the future? Probably, and I would say hopefully as well. But for now, any localization (subtitling and/or dubbing) of Telltale's non-XBLA games will have to be handled by other distributors.
My understanding is that W&G was a special case due to XBLA's requirements. (That said, I'm not 100% sure on who actually did the subtitling. On the other hand, most [all?] of the in-game textures were altered with translations as well.)
Otherwise, Telltale's "problem" is that even with the strides they've made in the past two years, they are still a small company with limited time and resources, and who -- this is important -- make games for a primarily English-speaking audience. While subtitling may be less-resource intensive than dubbing, it's still a huge indertaking. Translation is in many ways more of an art than a science.
Will this change in the future? Probably, and I would say hopefully as well. But for now, any localization (subtitling and/or dubbing) of Telltale's non-XBLA games will have to be handled by other distributors.
Ok. I understand but ...
Today 03/24/2010 we DONT HAVE a multilanguage version of Sam & Max Season 2. ¿Three years later?. We have only a Wii version launched this month (and i hate wii and i dont have the money for buy it).
In april Telltale will launch season 3. When the spanish (or german, french, etc) subtitles ??. In 2014 ??
Okey. Telltale is a small company. But they have money for launch games in PS3. Monkey Island (and Sam & max) have a LOT, yeah, A LOT OF FANS AROUND THE WORLD. Many many fans. But we dont born in Usa or England .. So.. No more Monkey Island for us. Or not Sam & Max.
Sorry. We need a solution. Do it for the fans for MANY YEARS of this games. We cant wait Three or four years for a traslated version. We only need subtitles.
hi! don't worry gado
ToMI was translated to spanish (and other languages) by fans who did a non official language packs.
This is not suitable for Telltale, but the fans could not wait anymore and did it their own translation
hi! don't worry gado
ToMI was translated to spanish (and other languages) by fans who did a non official language packs.
This is not suitable for Telltale, but the fans could not wait anymore and did it their own translation
Maybe, this is the Sam and Max season 3 fate too
I know this patches. Telltalle close the topics with this patch but exists.
Why not improve your English by playing English versions of the games?
Because playing a text and story based games in a language you're not that good at is a sure way to ruin the experience.
Just imagine having to play a game in, I don't know, depending on your case, Russian or Dutch or something. I don't think you'd enjoy yourself, and once the game is finally released in your language, you've spoiled the whole story already.
And the only thing you're likely to learn to say is "no way" or "that doesn't work", because since you'll have no clue what's going on you'll just try everything with everything until something happens.
Just imagine having to play a game in, I don't know, depending on your case, Dutch or something.
That would be horrible, even if I would understand what's being said.
And it's not that bad an idea... I trained for my examens German with Fahrenheit on German, and passed! Yay!
(Note; using videogames for training may not have the same postive effect for you as it did for me)
If you want to learn a language that way, I suggest starting with something (game, book, movie...) that you're already familiar with in your own language. Otherwise you'll just get lost and it will be incredibly frustrating.
Of course, when you reach a certain level in a language, then that's okay. But it took me 5 years of English before I could read my first book in English without having to stop because I wasn't following anything at all.
Songs are better. They're short enough that you can dig up your dictionary and try to translate them.
Because playing a text and story based games in a language you're not that good at is a sure way to ruin the experience.
Just imagine having to play a game in, I don't know, depending on your case, Russian or Dutch or something. I don't think you'd enjoy yourself, and once the game is finally released in your language, you've spoiled the whole story already.
And the only thing you're likely to learn to say is "no way" or "that doesn't work", because since you'll have no clue what's going on you'll just try everything with everything until something happens.
This is actually how I learned English. I started with Day of the Tentacle when I was 8. After that Full Throttle, Sam and Max. I just started imitating the sounds, learning the language this way. As a result I'm one of the few dutch people who can actually speak accentless English, and the games have grown on me too. :')
This is actually how I learned English. I started with Day of the Tentacle when I was 8. After that Full Throttle, Sam and Max. I just started imitating the sounds, learning the language this way. As a result I'm one of the few dutch people who can actually speak accentless English, and the games have grown on me too. :')
Well I can tell you that without subtitles I would have been absolutely unable to enjoy these games. I have tried playing games in another language, it's more about pixel hunting and trying everything until it seems to work (and even then you still don't know what you said or why you had to do that), or about following a walkthrough but then you're not playing.
I'd really only recommend doing that for games you know already. But I'm glad it didn't ruin the games for you.
Just imagine having to play a game in, I don't know, depending on your case, Russian or Dutch or something.
In my case, Russian would be quite alright - I do speak it.
Of course you cannot start learning a language by playing games. However, if you are already learning it, it is quite a good way to extend your knowledge: get to know new vocabulary, to train how words are pronounced and, well, to find out the sense from a context.
I did learn English with X-Wing, Tie Fighter and old LEC adventures like MI2, S&M and DOTT.
I guess for me it's a matter of what I care more about: the game or learning the language. If I care about the game I won't risk ruining some of it by playing it in a language I don't fully master.
If I care more about learning the language and don't care at all about the game, however, then yeah that would help me learn more vocabulary without a loss and could be worth it.
As a linguist, and working in the field of translations, please let me draft a few postulates:
Translating games is a very natural thing to do.
Full translations, including voices, are rather expensive.
If you intend to have a full translation, it is far more intelligent to do text and voices at the same time.
No translation will ever come close to the original. It either slavishly adheres to the original text, losing much in the translation process, or it doesn't, which will undoubtedly create something very different in parts.
The conception of a "good" translation is about the most subjective thing in the world.
To actually learn English with games, your initial English language skill level has to be rather high.
Specifically, you will not actually learn the meaning of new words you encounter if you haven't got a dictionary at your side. And playing games that way... it just doesn't feel right. If you're playing without subtitles, even the dictionary might not be of help!
Playing games in a foreign language with just a few years of learning this language in school might severely strain one's patience.
Completely rejecting the idea of a translation has the air of selfishness: If someone does not speak English well enough, she or he is not deemed "worthy" to experience the game.
To look down on people less proficient in a given language is, as the sociolinguists tell us, a very universal thing to do. It is, nonetheless, quite inacceptable.
I think your ability to learn a language from playing a game depends heavily on how old you are. Kids can be really single minded about some things, and I think would be more likely to treat the language learning as part of the game. You'd still need a dictionary, though.
That's just based on my own memories of being seven, and I'm autistic so they're probably not that applicable.
[*]No translation will ever come close to the original. It either slavishly adheres to the original text, losing much in the translation process, or it doesn't, which will undoubtedly create something very different in parts.
This is not completely true. You are right if you're talking about live action films, but cartoons... I have seen translations that have surpassed the original language. I am not about to go into detail, but there are some really really good dubs out there!
[*]To actually learn English with games, your initial English language skill level has to be rather high.
I am living proof of the other way around. I learned English by playing Day of the Tentacle and later Full Throttle and Sam and Max when I was 8 years old. When we actually got English in school, my level of English was far greater then that of the rest of the class.
[*]Specifically, you will not actually learn the meaning of new words you encounter if you haven't got a dictionary at your side. And playing games that way... it just doesn't feel right. If you're playing without subtitles, even the dictionary might not be of help!
I learned from the verbs in the bottom of the screen, experimenting with them and the icons of the inventory. Together they made quite the educational pair.
[*]Completely rejecting the idea of a translation has the air of selfishness: If someone does not speak English well enough, she or he is not deemed "worthy" to experience the game.
While some people make it seem that way. I just don't get why you wouldn't pick up the English version if you want to play the games so badly. English is the #1 language in the world today, and almost everyone has had some lessons. My experience is that it will only improve your English. Further more, according to this forum, most of the translations for these games are pretty horrid, even screwing up the most simple of jokes and lines!
This is not completely true. You are right if you're talking about live action films, but cartoons... I have seen translations that have surpassed the original language. I am not about to go into detail, but there are some really really good dubs out there!
This is of course very true. I chose the words "come close to" very carefully. The best dubs are those which "surpass" and "exceed"; yet that also means that something quite different from the original is created. In many cases, that is of course an absolutely desired direction! And that also applies to Live-Action-Films - even more so...
I am living proof of the other way around. I learned English by playing Day of the Tentacle and later Full Throttle and Sam and Max when I was 8 years old. When we actually got English in school, my level of English was far greater then that of the rest of the class.
It's quite hard to accept this as a learning process. The words are somhow implying that DoTT, FT and S&M were the only English influence you needed. There must at least have been some basic knowledge of the language beforehand - or you'd be as lost as playing the game in Chinese. I can see, however, how a game one loves can imprint the vocabulary in your mind forever. After all, I'm still using the words "bustling with activity" as found in the original Amiga "Pirates!"-game. And I still know where I got that expression from...
I learned from the verbs in the bottom of the screen, experimenting with them and the icons of the inventory. Together they made quite the educational pair.
Never did for me, but I do confess having a weak for pretty cartoony pictures back then (and even to this day...)
Let's not forget that adventure games communicate more heavily through moving pictures than through text. If you're determined to play the game, you will eventually figure out the key controls. It's hardly an ideal way to learn the language; still, it's the determination and fascination with the game that makes it possible. Trial-and-error works best for toddlers, but not as well for grown-ups. Can't really say for eight-year-olds; some theories imply that the major vocabulary boost in your native language happens when you're about 14.
While some people make it seem that way. I just don't get why you wouldn't pick up the English version if you want to play the games so badly. English is the #1 language in the world today, and almost everyone has had some lessons. My experience is that it will only improve your English. Further more, according to this forum, most of the translations for these games are pretty horrid, even screwing up the most simple of jokes and lines!
The people in this forum are everything but a representative sample of the gamers of the world! In fact, to search and find this forum, let alone understand what is discussed, you are bound to have a knowledge of the English language that is far, far, far, far above average.
The average non-native English poster in this forum has undergone quite a significant education in this language. And of course, in judging a certain translation, postulate #5 always comes into play. Personally, I considered the German translation of Monkey Island 2 to be quite nice (disregarding certain spelling errors). Still, many Germans who have also played the English original despise it, because it took the liberty to replace intranslatible jokes with others. That, however, is exactly what a good translator does.
I never saw any meaning at all in the "Everyone speaks English"-argument, which has been brought up countless times in this forum. It's neither very true, nor really significant for the debate. Your native language will always be the one you will be most at ease with - exceptions are very rare. Postulate #1 means exactly that.
Nonetheless, I can see your point here to some degree. From my point of view, the translation quality has actually taken a nosedive in recent decades. Localisation efforts are greatly increasing; but doing just the voices for games seems to be far too expensive to also invest in a decent translator. Also, publishers these days do not seem to possess the competence to distinguish a good from a bad translation. Translators get paid per line in most cases, while in these areas, they should be treated more as "copy-writers" who recreate and invent. Research and thorough retinking of the jokes hardly takes place: It just doesn't fit in the schedule. Through massive experience, I can also tell you that translators somehow get conditioned to opt for a more literal translation. These are, quite unfortunately, the ones most probable to be accepted by their clients.
This is of course very true. I chose the words "come close to" very carefully. The best dubs are those which "surpass" and "exceed"; yet that also means that something quite different from the original is created. In many cases, that is of course an absolutely desired direction! And that also applies to Live-Action-Films - even more so...
It's quite hard to accept this as a learning process. The words are somhow implying that DoTT, FT and S&M were the only English influence you needed. There must at least have been some basic knowledge of the language beforehand - or you'd be as lost as playing the game in Chinese. I can see, however, how a game one loves can imprint the vocabulary in your mind forever. After all, I'm still using the words "bustling with activity" as found in the original Amiga "Pirates!"-game. And I still know where I got that expression from...
The only English I knew at this age was from cartoons, which were usually subtitled back then. Of course I picked up some words from that, but most of it came from playing games.
Let's not forget that adventure games communicate more heavily through moving pictures than through text. If you're determined to play the game, you will eventually figure out the key controls. It's hardly an ideal way to learn the language; still, it's the determination and fascination with the game that makes it possible. Trial-and-error works best for toddlers, but not as well for grown-ups. Can't really say for eight-year-olds; some theories imply that the major vocabulary boost in your native language happens when you're about 14.
Adventure games actually communicate heavily through text too. The fun thing is that I saw a picture of (for example) a bucket, and the verb said "bucket" thus educating me that the word for "emmer" was bucket.
This is actually a really good way to learn a language, they use the same method in Sesame Street I think.
The people in this forum are everything but a representative sample of the gamers of the world! In fact, to search and find this forum, let alone understand what is discussed, you are bound to have a knowledge of the English language that is far, far, far, far above average.
The average non-native English poster in this forum has undergone quite a significant education in this language. And of course, in judging a certain translation, postulate #5 always comes into play. Personally, I considered the German translation of Monkey Island 2 to be quite nice (disregarding certain spelling errors). Still, many Germans who have also played the English original despise it, because it took the liberty to replace intranslatible jokes with others. That, however, is exactly what a good translator does.
I was actually referring to the localised versions of Sam and Max Season 1. A lot of people have complained about the translations. I've never played Monkey Island 2 in German, but I can imagine that it was translated pretty well. In the game Toonstruck, they even made different inventory objects for the different versions. I didn't like the voices in the German Dott or Sam and Max Hit the Road though.
I agree about the replacing of jokes, the best translations are the one that don't literally translate, but make a localised joke of something.
I am living proof of the other way around. I learned English by playing Day of the Tentacle and later Full Throttle and Sam and Max when I was 8 years old. When we actually got English in school, my level of English was far greater then that of the rest of the class
Wait. What? Don't all kids here do that anyway? I know I did the same. Don't know about the difference between me and the rest of the class; can't remember that far back.
And I think we are a pretty good proof that
I never saw any meaning at all in the "Everyone speaks English"-argument, which has been brought up countless times in this forum. It's neither very true, nor really significant for the debate. Your native language will always be the one you will be most at ease with - exceptions are very rare.
is just plain wrong. Most people in Holland can easily be understood and get around with English, it's the French and Germans who got issues. And guess who subtitles Original versions and who dubs their movies and games. Exactly. Germans and French folks could speak English well too if they heard it more often, but the translation stuff makes it so that they only stay proficient in their own language instead of their own + english, like us Dutch people.
Really, it isn't that hard if you grew up with it anyway...
As a linguist, and working in the field of translations, please let me draft a few postulates: (...)
Interesting. I agree with a lot of what you are saying; and I certainly don't believe that one should look down on people for their (lack of) language skills. But...
I never saw any meaning at all in the "Everyone speaks English"-argument, which has been brought up countless times in this forum. It's neither very true, nor really significant for the debate. Your native language will always be the one you will be most at ease with - exceptions are very rare. Postulate #1 means exactly that.
True, not everybody speaks English... but everyone should speak English, if they are at all interested in any of the forms of entertainment that are dominated by the English language: Movies, TV, video games, graphic novels, table-top role playing games... even the world wide web. I think that it is in the best interests of someone who likes those forms of entertainment to become fluent in English. It baffles me every time I see a person who is really into video games for example, and yet shows no interest in learning English. Do you enjoy video games? Okay, you'll really want to learn English. Come on people!
Let me also take this opportunity to to vent some of my strong feelings on the subject of dubbing. Spoiler:
Most people in Holland can easily be understood and get around with English, it's the French and Germans who got issues. And guess who subtitles Original versions and who dubs their movies and games. Exactly. Germans and French folks could speak English well too if they heard it more often, but the translation stuff makes it so that they only stay proficient in their own language instead of their own + english, like us Dutch people.
Really, it isn't that hard if you grew up with it anyway...
Exactly! It's the same situation over here with regards to subtitling. I believe dubbing is a huge disservice to the viewer because it leads to considerable delays in local release dates, you don't get to properly learn English, and most importantly: it looks and sounds terrible!
Whenever I see dubbed movies and TV shows, I am appalled and disgusted. How can people live with this and think it's okay?!
I admit to being heavily biased because I live in a country where dubbing is uncommon, but that doesn't mean I'm not right!
I have solemnly vowed that when I become world dictator, dubbing will be punishable by death. Start practicing sooner rather than later, people!
It baffles me every time I see a person who is really into video games for example, and yet shows no interest in learning English. Do you enjoy video games? Okay, you'll really want to learn English. Come on people!
It's not always a lack of interest. It can be a lack of ability, too. Some people have trouble with some languages. I know people who are fluent in 3-4 languages but don't understand more than a few words of English, and it's not for lack of trying.
Also, you guys keep mention examples of learning English by being dumped into it. Good for you. But I grew up watching some Disney movies in English and didn't learn a single word from it. I'd watch the picture, have an idea what was going on, but nothing more.
By comparison, the ones I did see in French I can tell lines from, I remember the whole plot, etc. The ones I watch in English, even to this day when I think back, I have no clue what was actually happening, or why. I should probably watch them again.
So just because it worked for you doesn't mean it would work for everyone. The thing is, with languages, you need to actively learn. I wasn't. I was passively looking at movies or passively playing games. To learn a word, you need to want to learn it. Otherwise, you only learn "if I click the word that's located there, it does this" without ever learning what the word itself is.
I only started learning when I had both French and English so I could compare them. When I was given actual classes. I know people always talk about total immersion but I have to tell you, it doesn't always work. It requires a lot of effort. You need to WANT to learn the words, rather than play the games.
Maybe it comes more naturally to some people than others. Maybe kids tend to be curious so they want to learn. I don't know, but I just had to tell you that it doesn't always work. I guess it sometimes does, since it worked for you guys, although I have a hard time believing that you weren't surrounded by English in other ways or having someone you could ask what such and such word meant.
It's not always a lack of interest. It can be a lack of ability, too. Some people have trouble with some languages. I know people who are fluent in 3-4 languages but don't understand more than a few words of English, and it's not for lack of trying.
Don't take it the wrong way, but I find it hard to believe that someone who has a proven ability to learn foreign languages and is actively trying to learn English is unable to do so.
Also, you guys keep mention examples of learning English by being dumped into it. Good for you. But I grew up watching some Disney movies in English and didn't learn a single word from it. I'd watch the picture, have an idea what was going on, but nothing more.
I certainly wouldn't make the argument that most people can just start watching Lost and learn English from that alone. Most people will need to have some kind of foundation to build on, a comprehensive English education starting in elementary school would be ideal; or some kind of language course for adults if no such education was available.
I think the point that Hassat Hunter was trying to make was the "use it or lose it" principle. In France, Germany and other European countries, students are taught English in the school system, but when they graduate they rarely use that knowledge again. They watch dubbed movies and TV shows, read translated books, only visit websites in their local language and so on. They will quickly lose all their English knowledge due to lack of use.
In countries that don't translate everything so diligently, people have a chance to actively use English every day, and will thus retain their knowledge and constantly expand their vocabulary. With the ability to understand English at a somewhat advanced level you have the option of enjoying a lot of creative works (movies, TV, videogames and so on) in the original language. The selection of media available to you increases, because you have the option of consuming media that has never been translated to your native language. The web also becomes a much more useful tool if you know English well.
Plus you get to watch movies and TV shows where lip movements actually match the voices.
Comments
Telltale is a relatively small company that produces English spoken games.
If the games are picked up in different country's by different publishers, they will translate them, but only AFTER they've been released a while by means of digital distribution.
There are so many threads about this topic, and they all end in the same way...
Don't know if any of their other games were ever re-voiced in other languages.
Not totally true.... Wallace&Gromit were multilanguage... those were the high standard of Microsoft to have multilanguage: maybe that's the reason Telltale abandoned XBOX360 for season 3?
It's strange that they say that they wanna spread the game to the widest audience possible, and then forget about foreign languages (Europe is not enough wide???
I know many Italian people who would have bought Tales if only it was in Italian... but Telltale was always faulty about translations (Wallace&gromit aside)... S&M Season 2 is scheduled to be released in MAY (!!!) after more than 2 years of waiting. Yes, I will play Season 3 before Season 2 will be released here...don't you think it's not so great?
And there will be in future if the situation will not change. S&M and TOMI are not like Strong Bad: they have the heritage of huge brands that sold enourmously worldwide in the old days of lucasarts.... so we wanna continue to follow the games.
Plus they'd have to hire people for the translations or even the voicing, etc. It's much better that they focus on making games and let whoever picks it in each country take car of the translation.
I just don't think it'd be profitable for Telltale to do this.
Telltale makes games for an English speaking audience, they let the dubbing be done by local distributors.
Then there is the fact that, I think, most fans wouldn't want to play a dubbed version.
The reactions to the dubs have mostly been pretty negative, from the voice acting to the overall translations, and I'm telling you, it's gonna take a pretty good dub to get me to play it in dutch, and even then I don't think I could part with the English version.
I wasn't talking about dubbing, i was talking about subtitles! And yes, I'm waiting for more then 2 years and a half to have only subtitles on Season 2 - no dubbing!!!! Is this great marketing?
No, I'm talking to release an official language patch after, even at the end of the season... but not 2 years later!
When you say "let whoever picks it in each country" means that they have to give the game to someone else... so their profit is less. Why Telltale don't take the chance to produce and sell language packs and make all the profit?
That's just an idea - selling subtitles for foreign languages. IE I would buy Italian for 2.99$ at episode.... :P
Because it's not their job. They'd need to hire someone to translate it anyways (for each language) but on top of that, they probably would have no way to check if the translation is good or terrible. I doubt they speak all of these languages themselves.
It's better for them to leave these things to people whose job it actually is.
Monekey Island and Sam & max have A LOT OF SPANISH FANS (for example) (Go to www.google.es and find spanish pages of this games). What is your problem ??
I waiting for TWO YEARS .... FU.ck ... TWO YEARS !!!!!! for a spanish subtitles for season 2 of Sam & max ...
That'll bring some subtitles... :rolleyes:
Why (the unknown for no english speakers) Wallace & Gromitt is Multilanguage and a very famous game with a lot of fans on the world (First Monkey Island ... and Sam & Max) dont have the subtitles ??.
Its only subtitles. not a dubbed version !!
[/Speculation]
My understanding is that W&G was a special case due to XBLA's requirements. (That said, I'm not 100% sure on who actually did the subtitling. On the other hand, most [all?] of the in-game textures were altered with translations as well.)
Otherwise, Telltale's "problem" is that even with the strides they've made in the past two years, they are still a small company with limited time and resources, and who -- this is important -- make games for a primarily English-speaking audience. While subtitling may be less-resource intensive than dubbing, it's still a huge indertaking. Translation is in many ways more of an art than a science.
Will this change in the future? Probably, and I would say hopefully as well. But for now, any localization (subtitling and/or dubbing) of Telltale's non-XBLA games will have to be handled by other distributors.
Ok. I understand but ...
Today 03/24/2010 we DONT HAVE a multilanguage version of Sam & Max Season 2. ¿Three years later?. We have only a Wii version launched this month (and i hate wii and i dont have the money for buy it).
In april Telltale will launch season 3. When the spanish (or german, french, etc) subtitles ??. In 2014 ??
Okey. Telltale is a small company. But they have money for launch games in PS3. Monkey Island (and Sam & max) have a LOT, yeah, A LOT OF FANS AROUND THE WORLD. Many many fans. But we dont born in Usa or England .. So.. No more Monkey Island for us. Or not Sam & Max.
Sorry. We need a solution. Do it for the fans for MANY YEARS of this games. We cant wait Three or four years for a traslated version. We only need subtitles.
Sorry for my bad english
That's the result of you only playing translated games
ToMI was translated to spanish (and other languages) by fans who did a non official language packs.
This is not suitable for Telltale, but the fans could not wait anymore and did it their own translation
Maybe, this is the Sam and Max season 3 fate too
Ok. so you speak spanish very well ....
I know this patches. Telltalle close the topics with this patch but exists.
But. Sam & Max ??
Because playing a text and story based games in a language you're not that good at is a sure way to ruin the experience.
Just imagine having to play a game in, I don't know, depending on your case, Russian or Dutch or something. I don't think you'd enjoy yourself, and once the game is finally released in your language, you've spoiled the whole story already.
And the only thing you're likely to learn to say is "no way" or "that doesn't work", because since you'll have no clue what's going on you'll just try everything with everything until something happens.
And it's not that bad an idea... I trained for my examens German with Fahrenheit on German, and passed! Yay!
(Note; using videogames for training may not have the same postive effect for you as it did for me)
Of course, when you reach a certain level in a language, then that's okay. But it took me 5 years of English before I could read my first book in English without having to stop because I wasn't following anything at all.
Songs are better. They're short enough that you can dig up your dictionary and try to translate them.
Of course I do (I'm Spanish
This is actually how I learned English. I started with Day of the Tentacle when I was 8. After that Full Throttle, Sam and Max. I just started imitating the sounds, learning the language this way. As a result I'm one of the few dutch people who can actually speak accentless English, and the games have grown on me too. :')
Well I can tell you that without subtitles I would have been absolutely unable to enjoy these games. I have tried playing games in another language, it's more about pixel hunting and trying everything until it seems to work (and even then you still don't know what you said or why you had to do that), or about following a walkthrough but then you're not playing.
I'd really only recommend doing that for games you know already. But I'm glad it didn't ruin the games for you.
Of course you cannot start learning a language by playing games. However, if you are already learning it, it is quite a good way to extend your knowledge: get to know new vocabulary, to train how words are pronounced and, well, to find out the sense from a context.
I did learn English with X-Wing, Tie Fighter and old LEC adventures like MI2, S&M and DOTT.
If I care more about learning the language and don't care at all about the game, however, then yeah that would help me learn more vocabulary without a loss and could be worth it.
That's just based on my own memories of being seven, and I'm autistic so they're probably not that applicable.
This is not completely true. You are right if you're talking about live action films, but cartoons... I have seen translations that have surpassed the original language. I am not about to go into detail, but there are some really really good dubs out there! I am living proof of the other way around. I learned English by playing Day of the Tentacle and later Full Throttle and Sam and Max when I was 8 years old. When we actually got English in school, my level of English was far greater then that of the rest of the class. I learned from the verbs in the bottom of the screen, experimenting with them and the icons of the inventory. Together they made quite the educational pair. Never did for me, but I do confess having a weak for pretty cartoony pictures back then (and even to this day...) While some people make it seem that way. I just don't get why you wouldn't pick up the English version if you want to play the games so badly. English is the #1 language in the world today, and almost everyone has had some lessons. My experience is that it will only improve your English. Further more, according to this forum, most of the translations for these games are pretty horrid, even screwing up the most simple of jokes and lines!
Thank you, this is of course appreciated!
This is of course very true. I chose the words "come close to" very carefully. The best dubs are those which "surpass" and "exceed"; yet that also means that something quite different from the original is created. In many cases, that is of course an absolutely desired direction! And that also applies to Live-Action-Films - even more so...
It's quite hard to accept this as a learning process. The words are somhow implying that DoTT, FT and S&M were the only English influence you needed. There must at least have been some basic knowledge of the language beforehand - or you'd be as lost as playing the game in Chinese. I can see, however, how a game one loves can imprint the vocabulary in your mind forever. After all, I'm still using the words "bustling with activity" as found in the original Amiga "Pirates!"-game. And I still know where I got that expression from...
Let's not forget that adventure games communicate more heavily through moving pictures than through text. If you're determined to play the game, you will eventually figure out the key controls. It's hardly an ideal way to learn the language; still, it's the determination and fascination with the game that makes it possible. Trial-and-error works best for toddlers, but not as well for grown-ups. Can't really say for eight-year-olds; some theories imply that the major vocabulary boost in your native language happens when you're about 14.
The people in this forum are everything but a representative sample of the gamers of the world! In fact, to search and find this forum, let alone understand what is discussed, you are bound to have a knowledge of the English language that is far, far, far, far above average.
The average non-native English poster in this forum has undergone quite a significant education in this language. And of course, in judging a certain translation, postulate #5 always comes into play. Personally, I considered the German translation of Monkey Island 2 to be quite nice (disregarding certain spelling errors). Still, many Germans who have also played the English original despise it, because it took the liberty to replace intranslatible jokes with others. That, however, is exactly what a good translator does.
I never saw any meaning at all in the "Everyone speaks English"-argument, which has been brought up countless times in this forum. It's neither very true, nor really significant for the debate. Your native language will always be the one you will be most at ease with - exceptions are very rare. Postulate #1 means exactly that.
Nonetheless, I can see your point here to some degree. From my point of view, the translation quality has actually taken a nosedive in recent decades. Localisation efforts are greatly increasing; but doing just the voices for games seems to be far too expensive to also invest in a decent translator. Also, publishers these days do not seem to possess the competence to distinguish a good from a bad translation. Translators get paid per line in most cases, while in these areas, they should be treated more as "copy-writers" who recreate and invent. Research and thorough retinking of the jokes hardly takes place: It just doesn't fit in the schedule. Through massive experience, I can also tell you that translators somehow get conditioned to opt for a more literal translation. These are, quite unfortunately, the ones most probable to be accepted by their clients.
The only English I knew at this age was from cartoons, which were usually subtitled back then. Of course I picked up some words from that, but most of it came from playing games.
Adventure games actually communicate heavily through text too. The fun thing is that I saw a picture of (for example) a bucket, and the verb said "bucket" thus educating me that the word for "emmer" was bucket.
This is actually a really good way to learn a language, they use the same method in Sesame Street I think.
I was actually referring to the localised versions of Sam and Max Season 1. A lot of people have complained about the translations. I've never played Monkey Island 2 in German, but I can imagine that it was translated pretty well. In the game Toonstruck, they even made different inventory objects for the different versions. I didn't like the voices in the German Dott or Sam and Max Hit the Road though.
I agree about the replacing of jokes, the best translations are the one that don't literally translate, but make a localised joke of something.
And I think we are a pretty good proof that is just plain wrong. Most people in Holland can easily be understood and get around with English, it's the French and Germans who got issues. And guess who subtitles Original versions and who dubs their movies and games. Exactly. Germans and French folks could speak English well too if they heard it more often, but the translation stuff makes it so that they only stay proficient in their own language instead of their own + english, like us Dutch people.
Really, it isn't that hard if you grew up with it anyway...
True, not everybody speaks English... but everyone should speak English, if they are at all interested in any of the forms of entertainment that are dominated by the English language: Movies, TV, video games, graphic novels, table-top role playing games... even the world wide web. I think that it is in the best interests of someone who likes those forms of entertainment to become fluent in English. It baffles me every time I see a person who is really into video games for example, and yet shows no interest in learning English. Do you enjoy video games? Okay, you'll really want to learn English. Come on people!
Let me also take this opportunity to to vent some of my strong feelings on the subject of dubbing. Spoiler:
Exactly! It's the same situation over here with regards to subtitling. I believe dubbing is a huge disservice to the viewer because it leads to considerable delays in local release dates, you don't get to properly learn English, and most importantly: it looks and sounds terrible!
Whenever I see dubbed movies and TV shows, I am appalled and disgusted. How can people live with this and think it's okay?!
I admit to being heavily biased because I live in a country where dubbing is uncommon, but that doesn't mean I'm not right!
I have solemnly vowed that when I become world dictator, dubbing will be punishable by death. Start practicing sooner rather than later, people!
It's not always a lack of interest. It can be a lack of ability, too. Some people have trouble with some languages. I know people who are fluent in 3-4 languages but don't understand more than a few words of English, and it's not for lack of trying.
Also, you guys keep mention examples of learning English by being dumped into it. Good for you. But I grew up watching some Disney movies in English and didn't learn a single word from it. I'd watch the picture, have an idea what was going on, but nothing more.
By comparison, the ones I did see in French I can tell lines from, I remember the whole plot, etc. The ones I watch in English, even to this day when I think back, I have no clue what was actually happening, or why. I should probably watch them again.
So just because it worked for you doesn't mean it would work for everyone. The thing is, with languages, you need to actively learn. I wasn't. I was passively looking at movies or passively playing games. To learn a word, you need to want to learn it. Otherwise, you only learn "if I click the word that's located there, it does this" without ever learning what the word itself is.
I only started learning when I had both French and English so I could compare them. When I was given actual classes. I know people always talk about total immersion but I have to tell you, it doesn't always work. It requires a lot of effort. You need to WANT to learn the words, rather than play the games.
Maybe it comes more naturally to some people than others. Maybe kids tend to be curious so they want to learn. I don't know, but I just had to tell you that it doesn't always work. I guess it sometimes does, since it worked for you guys, although I have a hard time believing that you weren't surrounded by English in other ways or having someone you could ask what such and such word meant.
I certainly wouldn't make the argument that most people can just start watching Lost and learn English from that alone. Most people will need to have some kind of foundation to build on, a comprehensive English education starting in elementary school would be ideal; or some kind of language course for adults if no such education was available.
I think the point that Hassat Hunter was trying to make was the "use it or lose it" principle. In France, Germany and other European countries, students are taught English in the school system, but when they graduate they rarely use that knowledge again. They watch dubbed movies and TV shows, read translated books, only visit websites in their local language and so on. They will quickly lose all their English knowledge due to lack of use.
In countries that don't translate everything so diligently, people have a chance to actively use English every day, and will thus retain their knowledge and constantly expand their vocabulary. With the ability to understand English at a somewhat advanced level you have the option of enjoying a lot of creative works (movies, TV, videogames and so on) in the original language. The selection of media available to you increases, because you have the option of consuming media that has never been translated to your native language. The web also becomes a much more useful tool if you know English well.
Plus you get to watch movies and TV shows where lip movements actually match the voices.