PSN vs. XBoxLive vs. WiiWare DRM?

edited April 2010 in General Chat
This isn't supposed to start a flame-war, I'm really curious since I only know people with a PS3 (and one with a Wii, but he doesn't use the WiiWare channel).

One of the main reasons I play almost exclusively on my PS3 these days is the very liberal DRM: At a time when PC gaming often (this doesn't apply to TTG games, but many other titles) means that you are painfully aware that there's a copy protection running (dependency on clients like Steam or Games for Windows actually RUNNING while I play a game, always-online requirements, ...) the PS3 DRM requires no such things:

You can install any PSN game on up to 5 systems at the same time, you just have to provide your login and voilà, you can access your PSN games on any system until you deactivate it (at which point the installations will be added back to your 5-install count), no strings attached. So I can go to a friend, login, install a game and delete it again when I'm leaving. Or leave the account with friends that I visit frequently (and who I trust entirely, since my credit card info is now on their system too of course).

And after logging in once, there's no need to connect to the internet again to play. That's why given the choice between a disc-based or a PSN purchase, I'm always choosing the PSN way by now.

So, how does it work on XBoxLive or WiiWare?
«1

Comments

  • edited April 2010
    I'm pretty sure Wiiware is exclusive to the one console you buy it from.

    I know the first Wii I bought years ago broke down after a week. I hadn't bought any wiiware stuff but I had bought virtual console stuff, and they were saved on a memory card. I had my console exchanged (couldn't be fixed apparently) and tried to put the games back but it didn't work.

    Apparently, for the virtual console at the very least, you're not buying the games as much as the right to play them on that specific console.

    Since you don't get any login or anything on Wiiware and don't provide any information about who you are or anything that could help transfer a game, I'm going to assume it works the same way, and is linked to your console only.
  • edited April 2010
    Thanks, avistew... I think it's understandable since Nintendo apparently tries to position WiiWare as a platform to PSN-Minis-like titles rather than for retail-style games. Still very annoying that you can't transfer the games at all, even when the old system breaks down.
  • edited April 2010
    I think the way XBox Live handles things is similar to PSN. You can log into your account on any XBox, but I'm not sure if there is an install limit or not. I do know as long as you have your account you can get it whenever you need it on one console, at least.
  • edited April 2010
    Can you have multiple accounts on one XBox?
  • edited April 2010
    Yes.
  • edited April 2010
    Good to know that the experience is as good for XBox users as it is for PSN customers. Thanks for the info.
  • edited April 2010
    The 360 does not work like that at all. You can recover your deleted items to 1 active system/account, but your account's DLC is exclusive to you... multiple people or multiple accounts (even on the same system) cannot download your items (I should know... my dad & I have been trying to share our XBLA games since 2006) as Microsoft wants you to shell out as much money as possible.

    That is totally the reason that I am starting to warm up to my PS3 (the damn thing LITERALLY went untouched for 11 months).... it's store & practices are way better. I mean you get free online multiplayer & don't have to wait a week to download free content & demos just because you don't feel like spending the 8 extra bucks a month.
  • edited April 2010
    /*===========================BEGIN OFF-TOPIC===========================
    Hmm... OK. Why did you buy a PS3 if you don't use it?
  • edited April 2010
    Hmm... OK. Why did you buy a PS3 if you don't use it?

    Well not that that has anything to do with this topic, but I'll tell you simply because you weren't an asshat about it.

    I got it for christmas in 2008... thing is that I really didn't care to much for the PS3 exclusives at the time & I cared more about gamerscore than trophies so I just set it to the side & forgot about.... until my laptop died. The Wii's internet browser sucks, & I remembered that the PS3 had one, so I bought a new hard drive (the old one broke) & started using it.... I have to admit... the damn thing surprised me with how awesome it had got in the last year.
  • edited April 2010
    /laughs. I can't even imagine what an asshat may look like. You can choose to play on whatever you like, I was really just curious. I've bought my PS3 primarily because I own a full-hd projector and needed something to play BluRays. I didn't really play on it at first either.

    And you're right: We are off-topic :)

    ===========================END OFF-TOPIC===========================*/
  • edited April 2010
    Well we are the only two here anyways....

    The one thing that annoys me about my system is that it doesn't play PS2 games... but it plays PS1 games. I MEAN WTF DUDE!!! Thats just Bullshit.
  • edited April 2010
    The 360 does not work like that at all. You can recover your deleted items to 1 active system/account, but your account's DLC is exclusive to you... multiple people or multiple accounts (even on the same system) cannot download your items (I should know... my dad & I have been trying to share our XBLA games since 2006) as Microsoft wants you to shell out as much money as possible.

    I never said they could. But you can log into your account from another console and play all your games, can't you? That's what I was trying to say.

    And the PS2 emulation thing does bug me as well. I think it's because the PS2 is still actually selling well and new games are still being developed for it. The first PS3s had excellent hardware PS2 support. The next batch had software emulated support (which wasn't as good). Now they don't have it at all. Stupid.
  • edited April 2010
    I don't like any of them.

    PS3: you get 5 activations and that's it, PC gamers have been complaining about this for years.

    360: everyone on the console you bought it on can use it, and the purchasing account can download and use it on any 360, as long as you are online. However Microsoft implemented a system where you can transfer all your licences to an individual console once per year.

    Wii/DSi: You can use it on one console only, apparently, not ideal in the slightest

    If I had to choose I would go for the 360, it's a little confusing, though it's the least obtrusive. Ideally everything would have the steam model.
  • edited April 2010
    @patterns

    You don't get just 5 activations, you can get them back by simply deactivating previous installs. And if the Steam model started appearing on consoles, I'd probably stop playing: The randomly-need-connection-at-certain-times model seems like the worst idea.
  • edited April 2010
    Nintendo's DRM strikes me as the worst. In fact, their whole online & store system is the worst. The two shop channels aren't linked either (so i could have 200 points on my DSi, and 300 on my wii, but can't really buy anything), the points have different values on both the consoles (1000 points costs £7 on wii, but £8.99 on the DS!, yet if i was to buy a points card, it's work on either!), plus there's the matter of the tiny size cap on the files (40MB? C'mon!)

    While i'm ranting, i don't see the point in having a point (pun possibly intended... i haven't decided yet!)system. Why not just have an actual money system, like the PSN? Sony have by far the best store, and i would by all my games digitally if i could (as it stands, i only have enough memory left for one PSP title, and PS3 games aren't on the PSN). The only gripe i have is that when looking for games, it often lists the DLC as well. I'd preffer it of they kept that in a subsection somewhere. And i want to be able to play more PSP games i've bought digitally via the PS3.

    Where was I? Oh yes: OT:
    Nintendo's DRM: Unlimited downloads, one console, until their servers go down.
    Sony's DRM: 5 recyclable activations (so basically 5 consoles at a time).
    360's DRM: (or so i've heard) Multiple consoles, but can only change once a year.
  • edited April 2010
    Friar wrote: »
    Sony have by far the best store

    Ehh...I can't really agree with this statement. I still prefer the 360's online store.

    One thing about the Sony way of paying ("real money") is that you pay to buy say a $20 card. You also pay retail tax on top of that. Then you buy games in the store...again paying tax on top of that. I don't think that online stores should charge tax of any kind unless they're actually shipping something to you. Digital-exclusive purchases should always be tax-free.

    And Nintendo's points have always seemed to be just like real money to me. Unlike Microsoft points, 2000 points are usually $19.99 plus tax (basically 20 dollars for 2000 points. So it's like cents.). But unlike the Sony store you don't have to pay tax on digital purchases. So really, the Nintendo store is the better functioning one.

    So they all have their pros and cons. Which pros and cons are better suited for your needs? That's probably subjective. But I prefer the 360's store overall.

    As far as Steam goes, that's just real money. And no tax to boot. And I don't mind the DRM. Seems pretty unobtrusive to me as long as you've got an internet connection (which I'll never not have).
  • edited April 2010
    Winners in DRM

    1. Telltale(Online activation AND a disc version without online activation)
    2. GOG.com and indie developers like 2D Boy that sell their games without DRM
    3. Steam. Somewhat more obtrusive, but also useful, so it sort of balances.

    Consoles are always going to lose until the next generation of consoles can download and play the last generation of games. PCs are the only almost fully backwards-compatible gaming machines.
  • edited April 2010
    Ehh...I can't really agree with this statement. I still prefer the 360's online store.

    One thing about the Sony way of paying ("real money") is that you pay to buy say a $20 card. You also pay retail tax on top of that. Then you buy games in the store...again paying tax on top of that. I don't think that online stores should charge tax of any kind unless they're actually shipping something to you. Digital-exclusive purchases should always be tax-free.

    And Nintendo's points have always seemed to be just like real money to me. Unlike Microsoft points, 2000 points are usually $19.99 plus tax (basically 20 dollars for 2000 points. So it's like cents.). But unlike the Sony store you don't have to pay tax on digital purchases. So really, the Nintendo store is the better functioning one.

    So they all have their pros and cons. Which pros and cons are better suited for your needs? That's probably subjective. But I prefer the 360's store overall.

    As far as Steam goes, that's just real money. And no tax to boot. And I don't mind the DRM. Seems pretty unobtrusive to me as long as you've got an internet connection (which I'll never not have).

    Pricing is different over here. Tax is included in all prices, so you pay £20 for a £20 card. Wii points cards vary in price from place to place, for £14 (rare to see nowadays, effectively same price is wii shop channel) to £25, although most are priced at £17.99. I can't really comment on the 360 (given mine isn't online connected), but it still uses a point system, with equally as wierd prices.
  • edited April 2010
    Edit: SORRY, forgot to reload before posting and didn't see Friar's post.
    Ehh...I can't really agree with this statement. I still prefer the 360's online store.
    I don't know the 360 store interface, but yes: The PSN store interface has room for improvements. Basically, there is no way to filter or search. It's acceptable now, but in 4 or 5 years it could be a challenge to navigate it unless Sony updates (which they do from time to time):
    One thing about the Sony way of paying ("real money") is that you pay to buy say a $20 card. You also pay retail tax on top of that. Then you buy games in the store...again paying tax on top of that. I don't think that online stores should charge tax of any kind unless they're actually shipping something to you. Digital-exclusive purchases should always be tax-free.

    And Nintendo's points have always seemed to be just like real money to me. Unlike Microsoft points, 2000 points are usually $19.99 plus tax (basically 20 dollars for 2000 points. So it's like cents.). But unlike the Sony store you don't have to pay tax on digital purchases. So really, the Nintendo store is the better functioning one.

    So they all have their pros and cons. Which pros and cons are better suited for your needs? That's probably subjective. But I prefer the 360's store overall.
    This might be different in different countries. I always pay per credit card, so I can't really comment on the PSN cards (although I think that their price including taxes is identical to their value in Germany), but at least when you actually buy something on PSN the price includes taxes. Come to think of it: it's the same for my US PSN account. Are you sure you're not mixing something up?
    As far as Steam goes, that's just real money. And no tax to boot. And I don't mind the DRM. Seems pretty unobtrusive to me as long as you've got an internet connection (which I'll never not have).
    I'm still very much irritated by people saying that, but again this is probably people from different countries perceiving it differently: Steam has a strict region-lock and you basically pay a whole lot more if you're not from the US.

    The unobtrusive-ness of Steam pretty much depends on how you see the Steam client. For me, it's a big annoyance with absolutely no value. Of course if you play a lot of online games anyway you may see it differently.
  • edited April 2010
    P.S. Just checked the US PSN store again to make sure: The prices do include tax, at least when accessed from Europe (there is a "Subtotal" and a "Tax" field though, so maybe it charges them based on location, meaning that the price could actually differ depending on which state you're in).

    P.P.S. GoG is the only online PC game seller where I've bought a big number of titles in the last year (40 games by now). Them and Telltale.

    P.P.P.S. Hey, the PSN store actually has a search by now... I honestly never noticed it before. Strike my complains about the missing search/sort feature.
  • edited April 2010
    @patterns

    You don't get just 5 activations, you can get them back by simply deactivating previous installs. And if the Steam model started appearing on consoles, I'd probably stop playing: The randomly-need-connection-at-certain-times model seems like the worst idea.

    Oh I didn't know that, That's pretty cool, hopefully you could revoke them even if the console died, in the same way you lose an activation if your motherboard dies on a PC.
  • edited April 2010
    I guess you'd have to call Sony for that... I've never tried it.
  • edited April 2010
    My point is that it's ridiculous to charge taxes on a digital distribution. It's insane. No other online store that sells digital products does this that I know of. Not Steam, TellTale, Wii/DSi-ware, or Xbox Arcade. All the prices I see on PSN are pre-tax and then they show the taxes after you go to the checkout. It just bugs me that I'd essentially be paying taxes twice over on every product I'd buy on PSN.

    And about Steam, I realize it bugs people when people say "who isn't online nowadays" but that's not how I meant it. I just meant that I liked Steam and everything it offers and I'll never be without internet so it doesn't bother me. I'm not talking about anybody else at all there. Sorry to irritate you with my personal opinion, but I wasn't forcing it down anyone's throat or anything.
  • edited April 2010
    DRM generally isn't a hassle for me. If I've purchased the game legally, regardless of console, it only takes 5min to install.

    Steam is a pretty awesome system, I actually run my non-steam games through steam.

    Copy protection can be annoying though. Sometimes when I pirate games....cough... Let's not head there...
  • edited April 2010
    My point is that it's ridiculous to charge taxes on a digital distribution. It's insane. No other online store that sells digital products does this that I know of. Not Steam, TellTale, Wii/DSi-ware, or Xbox Arcade. All the prices I see on PSN are pre-tax and then they show the taxes after you go to the checkout. It just bugs me that I'd essentially be paying taxes twice over on every product I'd buy on PSN.
    And you're right about it. I just didn't know it was that way for US customers, since European customers don't pay additional taxes in either store, which is actually kinda funny.
    And about Steam, I realize it bugs people when people say "who isn't online nowadays" but that's not how I meant it. I just meant that I liked Steam and everything it offers and I'll never be without internet so it doesn't bother me. I'm not talking about anybody else at all there. Sorry to irritate you with my personal opinion, but I wasn't forcing it down anyone's throat or anything.
    That's fine. Sorry about generalizing, but I've been attacked a number of times for saying that Steam is tailored for a specific audience and is a major hassle for anybody else, specifically people for predominately play non-online games or play only occasionally. It's hard to ignore the Steam client since it launches automatically and doesn't close automatically. Add to this that a lot of my PC-gaming time is spent on a netbook on the road and you'll see why Steam is a whole lot of trouble for me.
  • edited April 2010
    I'm a Canadian. But most things are usually the same as the States (including the retail prices, which is a bonus for us because that means we're getting things cheaper than the States is). I don't mind paying retail tax on physical items...I expect that. But paying tax AGAIN for a series of 1's and 0's boggles my mind.

    And I can understand that about Steam in your case.
  • edited April 2010
    Germans typically have either a US or a UK PSN because really, Europeans usually get charged higher prices. Luckily we can sign up without much trouble since you only need one PSN code from ebay to sign up, then you can use your regular German credit card to recharge the account. I'm still wondering why Sony even goes the extra mile to detect we're not in the US and leave US taxes out.

    The whole taxes thing in the US bites me every time I go there... I wander through the shop, happy about the low prices and suddenly get a bill that is 10% higher. I think its very misleading and at least in Europe such behaviour would actually fall under customer protection laws.
  • edited April 2010
    The whole taxes thing in the US bites me every time I go there... I wander through the shop, happy about the low prices and suddenly get a bill that is 10% higher. I think its very misleading and at least in Europe such behaviour would actually fall under customer protection laws.

    Oh, gosh, tell me about that!
    And restaurants are worse, because tips aren't included, but are expected. So I go eat somewhere, thinking it's super cheap, and then I end up having to pay a third more and feeling cheated. That definitely falls into "false advertising" in France if you have to pay an amount higher that what's written in the store/on the menu.

    I've lived a cumulative two years in Canada and still I get bitten by it every time. And don't start me on the "dollar stores" where EVERYTHING actually costs more than a dollar.

    Another annoying thing is that since prices tend to be rounded so that they end with .99 or something, in North America they're rounded BEFORE tax, so not only are they more expensive in the end (rounding it after tax would probably result in the exact same price, except the tax is already included) but you end up having to find a few cents, or getting a bunch of change back (which can't be nice for the stores, either).
    At least in France you just go "keep the cent" and leave, and you're fine.
  • edited April 2010
    @MusicallyInspired this is incredibly off-topic, but have you ever considered including a player that allows for fast-forwarding on your website? Love the first half "What happened to them" song (sorry the second half isn't my cup of tea... I'm incredible picky when I think the instruments aren't a perfect fit)... "Danger" is also great, but the discords are a bit too much for me.
  • edited April 2010
    Avistew wrote: »
    Another annoying thing is that since prices tend to be rounded so that they end with .99 or something, in North America they're rounded BEFORE tax, so not only are they more expensive in the end (rounding it after tax would probably result in the exact same price, except the tax is already included) but you end up having to find a few cents, or getting a bunch of change back (which can't be nice for the stores, either).
    At least in France you just go "keep the cent" and leave, and you're fine.

    Hehe, I always leave a bucket of coins at the airport restaurant when I leave. :)
  • edited April 2010
    I don't leave tips if I don't feel like it. Especially if service was bad.
    @MusicallyInspired this is incredibly off-topic, but have you ever considered including a player that allows for fast-forwarding on your website? Love the first half "What happened to them" song (sorry the second half isn't my cup of tea... I'm incredible picky when I think the instruments aren't a perfect fit)... "Danger" is also great, but the discords are a bit too much for me.

    The XSPF player was the easiest free and open source XML player to use for this kind of thing. In the future when my website is more of a success and I have more time I'll look into things like optimizing the website player and such. I should also note, if it's not obvious, that those tracks in the player aren't meant as previews of my music for sale, but rather examples of my abilities of my services (which are for sale). Thank you for your comments, though. I appreciate it.
  • edited April 2010
    BTW, are you aware that the XSPF player offers your song for download on right click? That may not be what you had in mind...
  • edited April 2010
    Yes I knew that. I don't mind. You can also view the page source and find where the playlist is, which in turn shows where the MP3s are located on my server. Again, I don't mind.
  • edited April 2010
    Getting back on topic a little bit, perhaps its only Australia, but the PSN prices are so stupid. They all end with .95c, so at the end of the day I'm left with 15-20c. I guess this wouldn't be a problem in the long run, but right now it bugs me. =P

    I own all 3 consoles, wii is a dust-collector, PS3 I've only sort of recently obtained, so I don't have a vast collection of games for it, and 360 I've had a few years, and is definetly my main console. And I'm 90% sure you can play DLC using other profiles on the same console. Not sure about using the same profile on other consoles, but I don't think that's possible.
  • edited April 2010
    The only thing I use my Wii for anymore is Homebrew. And Brawl the odd time (still haven't unlocked everything yet).
  • edited April 2010
    The only thing I use my Wii for anymore is Homebrew. And Brawl the odd time (still haven't unlocked everything yet).
    Have you considered getting the rebalancing patch, or do you not care enough for that sort of thing?
  • edited April 2010
    Hehe, I always leave a bucket of coins at the airport restaurant when I leave. :)

    A bucket of coins you say?!? Don't you know that a 5 gallon bucket full of pennies comes to approximately/over (depending how full the bucket is) 42800 pennies (or about $428.00USD)?!?

    Please tell me the next time you go to the airport..I might..want to join you for lunch.
  • edited April 2010
    Have you considered getting the rebalancing patch, or do you not care enough for that sort of thing?

    Already have it. It's also fun replacing the model skins and music themes. I replaced a song on Norfair with Lower Norfair by Metroid Metal. Much better than whatever I replaced.
  • edited April 2010
    A bucket of coins you say?!? Don't you know that a 5 gallon bucket full of pennies comes to approximately/over (depending how full the bucket is) 42800 pennies (or about $428.00USD)?!?

    Please tell me the next time you go to the airport..I might..want to join you for lunch.

    OK, it's a very small bucket that's on my keychain.
  • edited April 2010
    P.S. Just checked the US PSN store again to make sure: The prices do include tax, at least when accessed from Europe (there is a "Subtotal" and a "Tax" field though, so maybe it charges them based on location, meaning that the price could actually differ depending on which state you're in).

    P.P.S. GoG is the only online PC game seller where I've bought a big number of titles in the last year (40 games by now). Them and Telltale.

    P.P.P.S. Hey, the PSN store actually has a search by now... I honestly never noticed it before. Strike my complains about the missing search/sort feature.

    I just bought Street Fighter Alpha 2 yesterday & an add-on for Saints Row 2 today off of the US Playstation Store & didn't have to pay tax on either. I should also note that I live in a state that has to pay tax on all non food items.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.