Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.
Monkey Island 2 spoilers:
The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).
The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.
I'd rather know an answer to this:
With the exceptional lengths it takes Guybrush to navigate to Monkey Island how is it that mere piratey tourists (with a desire to be transformed into the undead via a Voodoo enhanced Theme Park) are able too so easily?
Maybe that is but another secret of Monkey Island...
Did Curse destroy Monkey Island? Absolutely not. Did it change monkey Island? Perhaps a little bit, but not in a bad way, certainly not destroying it in any capacity.
The first MI game I'd ever played was LeChuck's Revenge. To be honest, the game scared me a bit, especially with the catacombs scene, the atmosphere of Scabb Island, etc. I felt more distressed with the game than amused and entertained by it. This didn't seem like the Monkey Island games I'd read about for years.
And then came Curse. HERE was that game. This was the game that hooked me on Monkey Island. Why? What was it that felt so different about this game? The style. It was beautiful. Gone was the distress from the graveyard and tunnel, and here was the jaunty thrill of the sea battles and the rollercoaster.
I find it a bit disheartening that Curse can't be talked about without mentioning MI2. It doesn't seem to be given a fair shake.
Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.
Monkey Island 2 spoilers:
The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).
The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.
Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.
Monkey Island 2 spoilers:
The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).
The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.
*not really
Bravo. I'm totally replaying the series, with belief that Guybrush is a murderer.
I have always believed, however, that Guybrush was trapped in Lechuck's theme park. If the ending had been reality when Guybrush was a little boy, why would Chuckie's face go all crazy & green?
I think all 5 Monkey Island parts have their own charmes.
Sure, the first 2 were quite close to each other, Curse was the return of a Saga, Escape was a experiment. The controls of Escape were terrible, but the story and riddles were ok. TOMI fits nicely into the line.
Game series evolve, change, there is nothing to do about this.
We can't expect the same style of games over 20 years.
Monkey Island will go on if they can think of another way to bring LeChuck back.
I don't actually think that LeChuck is necessary for the next MI game. There is no point including him if they can write a good story without him. I think it's time to give him a bit of a rest for the next game, to prevent the games from getting repetitive.
I think a good idea for a future game could be having an entirely new main villain (not LeChuck in any of his incarnations, not even someone working for him or wanting to revive him) for most of the game, and LeChuck being revived accidentally at the end of the game, so the last chapter is Guybrush and that new villain working together to defeat LeChuck
I think a good idea for a future game could be having an entirely new main villain (not LeChuck in any of his incarnations, not even someone working for him or wanting to revive him) for most of the game, and LeChuck being revived accidentally at the end of the game, so the last chapter is Guybrush and that new villain working together to defeat LeChuck
That's my idea that I outlined Months ago, the Three Teams thing, with LeChuck gone, there are now many more Pirates rising to be the "new" LeChuck, so lots of attacks, Sword Fights, etc, with the game pretty much falling into three groups, a Group of Pirates lead by Guybrush, a Group of Pirates lead by Largo LaGrande fixated on the fact that they want to get to Monkey Island and Revive LeChuck somehow, and the last group lead by the new main villain, who's that demented, he wants to pass through the gates of Big Whoop on Monkey Island to seal his fate as LeChucks replacement.
That's my idea that I outlined Months ago, the Three Teams thing, with LeChuck gone, there are now many more Pirates rising to be the "new" LeChuck, so lots of attacks, Sword Fights, etc, with the game pretty much falling into three groups, a Group of Pirates lead by Guybrush, a Group of Pirates lead by Largo LaGrande fixated on the fact that they want to get to Monkey Island and Revive LeChuck somehow, and the last group lead by the new main villain, who's that demented, he wants to pass through the gates of Big Whoop on Monkey Island to seal his fate as LeChucks replacement.
You said that on the forum? I surely must have missed that message, sorry.
That way, you need to defeat him making something different each time. As seen in MI2, root beer may work to defeat a ghost pirate, but not to defeat a zombie pirate, and so on...
Hi, this is my first post. I'm replying to the original topic and conversation.
I played SoMI and LR as a child, and they were among my favorite games of all time, especially the latter. Something just struck, it was the perfect combination of a serious world/plot, and goofy characters that just made it unlike anything I've seen before or since.
Of course, the difference between the first two games and Curse is that Curse ramped the silliness up to eleven. Which is not to say that I disliked Curse, it's a fine game in its own way, but I can see how someone could consider it too far a departure from the previous games. However, to me it seems that it was not Curse itself that made the last few scenes (the carnival and the loooooong exposition between Guybrush and LeChuck) quite frankly suck, but rather that the team was left with the burden of trying to explain the trainwreck of a plot that was LR (to reiterate so I don't sound hateful; LR is my favorite in the series; the longlasting plot threads were weird though)
One thing that always irked me about Curse, Escape, and even Tales is the mischaracterization, especially of Elaine. In the first two games, she's a governor who is inexplicably attracted to our goofy protagonist. Never once in either game did I ever envision their relationship getting to the point it did in Curse. It just felt so... cheap. Like they needed to tack on a generic happy ending to cover up the failure of the Carnival chapters. To their credit, both Escape and Tales handle the marriage in a good, unique way. Escape has her retain the authoritarian aspect from the first two games, without being annoyingly so, and Tales takes cues from the ending of Escape and makes her into a believable and enjoyable pirate bride for Guybrush. The transition feels natural, but only taking into account her character from Curse. Basically where Curse fails most for me is completely missing the point of the character of Elaine and turning her into exactly the opposite character she was in the prior games.
Also, LeChuck becomes a significant amount goofier. I still remember my heart jumping into my throat when the toll booth lady in LR in the LeChuck costume popped on screen. He was a significant threat, a sadistic creep whose only scenes only served to exemplify his badassery. Tales also does a good job of this, especially in the last two chapters. But something about him in Curse, I dunno, it just seems like they put him in because the game needed a big showdown. He didn't really do anything.
Hi, this is my first post. I'm replying to the original topic and conversation.
I played SoMI and LR as a child, and they were among my favorite games of all time, especially the latter. Something just struck, it was the perfect combination of a serious world/plot
Serious meaning... well, a kidnapped damsel held hostage by a ghost in any other circumstances would strike me as a darker plot. It's really only the characters of the first two games that add the camp.
I liked the old series, I like the new series. Let's forget all the bull and just enjoy the Monkey Island of today.
Agreed.
I suspect that had CMI not been made, Ron himself would never have gotten around to making any more MI games. Ever. This means that we wouldn't have CMI (which I love,) we wouldn't have Tales, and we also wouldn't have Dominic Armato or Earl Boen's voices for their characters.
The real MI3? The end to MI2 was stupid and, aside from what CMI explained, neither Ron nor anyone else ever explained it more than to say it was a joke. Besides, CMI is the real MI3.
Agreeing 100%. I love MI saga, but the first time I played the LCR end I was really pissed. I was expecting a more 'epic' ending, meaningful and revelating. The story is a full crecendo full of incredible details. It's a perfect story. So the end, on the first moment, was a big dissapointment to me.
Maybe they could have kept the secret of MI hidden and all the Big Whoop affair too, but providing a better end (and still open if they wanted). The first time I played it I had the perception that this game was ended quickly with no clue on what was gonna be the end. Doubting between revealing all the stuff or keeping some info for future releases.
I'm pretty sure that a part of this end was Lucas Arts's fault. I can see Gilbert and Co. wanting to end the full story in 2 games and the company saying: 'NONONONONONONONO, this need to last almost one more game' .
In my opinion, I think Curse was the best thing to happen to the series. Don't get me wrong, Ron Gilbert is a great game designer and I love all his games and have a lot of respect for him, but there are certain plot points in Monkey Island that I didn't like that he was planning to do.
To start with, Ron said Big Whoop was never going to be elaborated on hence the name.
That definitely would have sucked. I think CMI did a great job filling in the story, even if it meant they spent all their time answering questions. I mean, being able to stand there and completely interview LeChuck about everything that happened was a fanboi's dream. Although CMI's ending, strictly sailing away was a bit of a let down. And the actual ending puzzle of the game was too easy. Win some, lose some.
I don't understand why Ron would put all that info in the game if it were meant to be no matter of importance at the end.
Clearly you haven't watched LOST.
6 years of mysteriies and most of it remains unanswered or unused backstory just to confuse us. In the end, all that mattered is
people lived and died on an island, had bizarre adventures, tortured each other a lot, eventually the immortal bad guy who was causing so much ruckus was killed, and finally a new protector for the island was chosen, oh and we had a protracted season-long funeral
. Hundreds of questions about the mythos remain about what were clearly just space filler, backdrop, and scenery for the characters to chew up.
I'm not saying I didn't like Lost, but I just didn't realize that all the island mysteries were just something for the characters to play against. In the end, the island mysteries were like the daily schedule of a family on a sitcom. Do we really care if Bobby and Sally were going to yoga or pilates? But Lost made the island, the mythos important. Just like X-Files made aliens and unexplained phenomena important.
The actual "here's what really happened" storyline of Lost could have been told in a 2 week miniseries in front of a green screen.
I don't think CMI destroyed Monkey Island. Then again, I loved the game because of the smart use of artwork in scene-setting and story-telling anyway.
I don't think you should try to construct MI into some disastrously over-analysed series like Star Wars. Monkey Island games were/are great fun, with good jokes and good stories.
If we stop taking things so seriously, I don't think people would be that bothered about EfMI's failings etc. It's just another in a line of Monkey Island games. We don't need everything to make sense in Monkey Island - that's part of its charm!
If we stop taking things so seriously, I don't think people would be that bothered about EfMI's failings etc. It's just another in a line of Monkey Island games. We don't need everything to make sense in Monkey Island - that's part of its charm!
For you this might be true, but not for everyone. My dislike of Escape wasn't caused by analyzing it. I disliked it when I played it but wasn't sure why, and then when I thought about it after the fact, I was able to pin down what aspects of it bothered me.
Wanting people not to analyze things is essentially asking them not to think. I really don't know why anyone thinks that's a good thing.
Personally Monkey Island 3 is my favorite game of the series. It was hysterical, the puzzles were great, plot was excellent with rescuing Elaine (for real this time) and it did the best to tie in the story from Monkey Island 2. To me it was alot better than nothing. Yeah Ron Gilbert could have had a story for the third one, but in another year it will have been 20 years since he did MI2. How long can we wait until he says "Here's my MI3"?
I don't see why people have such problems with CoMI. I played the first two Monkey Island games when they first came out and loved them, but I loved Curse too. Granted, the atmosphere is a bit lighter and the humor a bit more slapstick, but the writing was still sharp and clever, and the voice acting was great. Not to mention the art. It seems like people have more of an ideological problem with Curse due to Ron Gilbert's not being involved rather than a gameplay based one.
Now Escape, that one just felt like a hollow cash grab to me, made by people who didn't really get what Monkey Island should be (apologies to anyone who may have worked hard on it). To be honest, Tales felt a little like that too until it started picking up around the 3rd episode.
Now Escape, that one just felt like a hollow cash grab to me, made by people who didn't really get what Monkey Island should be (apologies to anyone who may have worked hard on it). To be honest, Tales felt a little like that too until it started picking up around the 3rd episode.
I agree that Escape did not fit in with the world of Monkey Island (mainly because of that f*****g giant robot monkey at the end but I'm curious as to why you feel the first couple of Tales chapters were following this route?
For myself, I feel that the merfolk do not fit in but it does not upset me any where near to the same extent as Mecha-King Kong did.
Also, as always, this is my opinion. I'm well aware that it's different strokes for different folks (just in case anyone flames me for not seeing things their way - i.e. fascists )
I agree that Escape did not fit in with the world of Monkey Island (mainly because of that f*****g giant robot monkey at the end but I'm curious as to why you feel the first couple of Tales chapters were following this route?
For myself, I feel that the merfolk do not fit in but it does not upset me any where near to the same extent as Mecha-King Kong did.
Also, as always, this is my opinion. I'm well aware that it's different strokes for different folks (just in case anyone flames me for not seeing things their way - i.e. fascists )
Haha, no worries, I feel no need to bring out the flamethrower.
It doesn't really have anything to do with the Merfolk, though I did think that the writing and design of the first two chapters was not so sharp in general. It had more to do with them being heavily self-referential (the bane of good satire) and throwing in pop-culture references (U-tubes, ugh). It also felt to me at first like these were more like fan tributes than a serious entry into the series. They still contained some good puzzles and the same characters, but for some reasons the initial episodes didn't really feel like "Monkey Island" to me, just like any other decent adventure game. I guess I am a bit overly critical towards any attempt to carry on the MI name.
That all changed with the 3rd episode, where the writing really started to get good, and there was some actual meaningful characterization for the new faces. Not to mention some really great puzzles.
I agree that Escape did not fit in with the world of Monkey Island (mainly because of that f*****g giant robot monkey at the end but I'm curious as to why you feel the first couple of Tales chapters were following this route?
For myself, I feel that the merfolk do not fit in but it does not upset me any where near to the same extent as Mecha-King Kong did.
Also, as always, this is my opinion. I'm well aware that it's different strokes for different folks (just in case anyone flames me for not seeing things their way - i.e. fascists )
Actually, I heard that one of the endings that they originally came up with for The Secret of Monkey Island WAS a giant robot fight, so it didn't come completely out of nowhere. Not that it was a very good sequence in the first place.
A few random thoughts that I had to write down concerning the 2nd and 3rd games...
1) While it is hard to explain, I found Curse more "fun" than any of the other games. I believe the puzzles were definitely more clever and the developers did not try to defeat you.
2) I felt the constant island-hopping in LeChuck's Revenge was quite tedious and took too much time.
3) A reason for why I prefer Blood Island to any island in the previous games is because there was more history, more to do. Whilst you just had big islands such as Booty with locations few and far between, Blood had several locations such as the hotel, cemetary, shipwreck, village, etc. but with less boring empty space. There is also a dark history with characters that suit the environment which led me to be endeared with it. This is opposed to some of the huge masses with a few generic locations that had little to no history behind them and some weak gimmicky concepts (Mardi Gras?).
4) Curse took a step in the right direction concerning the Guybrush-Elaine relationship. After playing the first game you get the vibe that they are two traditional lovers. However, for some reason the developers felt the need to force this brother-sister sort of relationship upon them with little to no reason at all in the sequel. I was always bothered by Elaine's reasoning for leaving Guybrush. What the heck made her so angry between the 1st and 2nd games if she already knew he was a pirate? In my opinion, Curse corrects this mistake.
I apologize if my reasoning didn't make any sense at all. And I still loved the all of the games.
Haha, no worries, I feel no need to bring out the flamethrower.
It doesn't really have anything to do with the Merfolk, though I did think that the writing and design of the first two chapters was not so sharp in general. It had more to do with them being heavily self-referential (the bane of good satire) and throwing in pop-culture references (U-tubes, ugh). It also felt to me at first like these were more like fan tributes than a serious entry into the series. They still contained some good puzzles and the same characters, but for some reasons the initial episodes didn't really feel like "Monkey Island" to me, just like any other decent adventure game. I guess I am a bit overly critical towards any attempt to carry on the MI name.
That all changed with the 3rd episode, where the writing really started to get good, and there was some actual meaningful characterization for the new faces. Not to mention some really great puzzles.
Yeah, I have no idea where you two are coming from. I hated the 3rd chapter of Tales of Monkey Island. The humor was alright, the puzzles decent, but there was just something about it that made me dislike it. Of course, I hated the 2nd one even more.
And as to Escape from Monkey Island, are we even really still talking about that? You didn't like it. Big Whoop. Move on with your life. What the hell is the point of talking about it constantly when NO ONE is going to remake it, it's been nigh ELEVEN years since it was made, and Telltale just made a better game than it last year? I don't get the logic.
Haha, no worries, I feel no need to bring out the flamethrower.
I'm really sorry as I think I may have not made my post clear. I agreed with your post, the 'no fascists' statement was aimed towards the minority I've come across before who get shirty because you dared to suggest that TOMI is not a perfect game. I hope that clears things up?
It also felt to me at first like these were more like fan tributes than a serious entry into the series.
I'm actually really glad you said that because I've felt that way for some time now but was too afraid to mention it because I thought I might get a virtual-stoning as a result.
And as to Escape from Monkey Island, are we even really still talking about that? You didn't like it. Big Whoop. Move on with your life. What the hell is the point of talking about it constantly when NO ONE is going to remake it, it's been nigh ELEVEN years since it was made, and Telltale just made a better game than it last year? I don't get the logic.
Just so you know, this is the first time I've mentioned anything regarding my feelings on Escape on this site, I am hardly talking about it 'constantly'. I feel I should have the right to put my views on the game forward at least once. Although, I do agree that it's a topic that's been talked to death by others but you know, free speech and all.
Yeah, I have no idea where you two are coming from. I hated the 3rd chapter of Tales of Monkey Island. The humor was alright, the puzzles decent, but there was just something about it that made me dislike it. Of course, I hated the 2nd one even more.
And as to Escape from Monkey Island, are we even really still talking about that? You didn't like it. Big Whoop. Move on with your life. What the hell is the point of talking about it constantly when NO ONE is going to remake it, it's been nigh ELEVEN years since it was made, and Telltale just made a better game than it last year? I don't get the logic.
Bummer. Though I hardly think one throwaway sentence about it constitutes not moving on with my life. And where did anyone say anything about remaking it? Let the anger go, friend.
3) A reason for why I prefer Blood Island to any island in the previous games is because there was more history, more to do. Whilst you just had big islands such as Booty with locations few and far between, Blood had several locations such as the hotel, cemetary, shipwreck, village, etc. but with less boring empty space. There is also a dark history with characters that suit the environment which led me to be endeared with it. This is opposed to some of the huge masses with a few generic locations that had little to no history behind them and some weak gimmicky concepts (Mardi Gras?).
Ah..... Blood Island... along with Scabb, both my favourite. Afer, comes Plunder.
But Blood Island is SO awesome. I love the ambience.
4) Curse took a step in the right direction concerning the Guybrush-Elaine relationship. After playing the first game you get the vibe that they are two traditional lovers. However, for some reason the developers felt the need to force this brother-sister sort of relationship upon them with little to no reason at all in the sequel. I was always bothered by Elaine's reasoning for leaving Guybrush. What the heck made her so angry between the 1st and 2nd games if she already knew he was a pirate? In my opinion, Curse corrects this mistake.
I apologize if my reasoning didn't make any sense at all. And I still loved the all of the games.
You really can't be serious can you? For years and years Ron Gilbert has been saying that probably the ONLY thing he did not like in Curse was the way LA handled the relationship between Elaine and Guybrush as he said that Elaine sees Guybrush as her annoying brother and not as a lover!!!
I like Curse as a game and don't take me wrong. I play it a lot and love it. But if we see it in the continuation there are a lot things which bother me regarding Curse and I am not hitting on the creators or anything. They did a terrific job and brought out an excellent game but things which bothered me where:
1. Lechuck was shows as an idiot!! Really in MI1 and MI2 Lechuck is Scary (especially in 2) and nothing like an idiot!
2. Guybrush was very naive and silly like. I did not like that
3. Elaine with the making my hair stuff! Come on ppl.
4. The beach scene with the towels really brought in my mind Larry from Sierra!
Memorable moments in Curse which I would never trade away are of course Murray and the Pirate Song.. Excellent addition to the series.
Escape was a totaly different approach. It was the time ppl were getting crazy with the polygonal 3D stuff so you either like it or not. You cannot half like it. Storywise was nice to see an additional vilain rather than LeChuck. Clearly he plot was lacking a lot most probably from pushing to get the game out before having a well laid out story. The greatest dissapointment was the robot scene of course for every fan. Besides that it also was a good game
You really can't be serious can you? For years and years Ron Gilbert has been saying that probably the ONLY thing he did not like in Curse was the way LA handled the relationship between Elaine and Guybrush as he said that Elaine sees Guybrush as her annoying brother and not as a lover!!!
Just because Ron Gilbert didn't like something doesn't automatically mean everyone should hate it. The guy is a fantastic game designer and writer, but his word is not some kind of gospel. Let me put it this way: if Gilbert had never said one word about CoMI, would you still feel the same way about the whole Guybrush/Elaine brou-ha-ha? There are some legitimate game design gripes to be had with Curse (too short, oversimplified interface), but character development stuff is ultimately just personal opinion and is kind of silly to call incorrect.
I allways loved the relation of guybrush and elaine in CMI EMI and TMI especialy the wa guybrush and elaine act much like tv couples with the wife making the demands and the husband complying
Just because Ron Gilbert didn't like something doesn't automatically mean everyone should hate it. The guy is a fantastic game designer and writer, but his word is not some kind of gospel. Let me put it this way: if Gilbert had never said one word about CoMI, would you still feel the same way about the whole Guybrush/Elaine brou-ha-ha? There are some legitimate game design gripes to be had with Curse (too short, oversimplified interface), but character development stuff is ultimately just personal opinion and is kind of silly to call incorrect.
I did not say that ppl should hate it. In MI World I am sorry but yes Ron Gilberts' word is the gospel. period, because he is the original creator. As in Star Wars George Lucas word is the gospel and in Jurassic Park Steven Spielbergs' word is the gospel e.t.c. e.t.c. I specifically said that I meant no offence to anyone of the creators of Curse or Escape and I loved both games (curse more) although my favourite is MI2 Lechucks' revenge. The writer of a book or a series or something (original creator) is one whose opinion should not be taken light hearted. Prince of Persia movie they got the creator to put info in the story together and they made a hell of a movie. Tales got input from Ron Gilbert and they made a great job. Harry Potter movies are greatly overviewed by the writer e.t.c e.t.c. The original creators' word is the gospel no matter how harsh it sounds.
Demetris
I personally don't care if he does one or not, if he did, I'd buy it. The only reason I would want him to is to get people to shut up about it so they can maybe finally enjoy the games that came after the first two.
Hmmm.. Where did you see me mentioning that Ron should make MI3? Where did you see me mentioning that Curse or Escape is a mishap!? I mentioned above and read it thoroughly that I loved both Curse and Escape and mentioned some things which bothered me. Nothing else
Demetris
I did not say that ppl should hate it. In MI World I am sorry but yes Ron Gilberts' word is the gospel. period, because he is the original creator. As in Star Wars George Lucas word is the gospel and in Jurassic Park Steven Spielbergs' word is the gospel e.t.c. e.t.c. I specifically said that I meant no offence to anyone of the creators of Curse or Escape and I loved both games (curse more) although my favourite is MI2 Lechucks' revenge. The writer of a book or a series or something (original creator) is one whose opinion should not be taken light hearted. Prince of Persia movie they got the creator to put info in the story together and they made a hell of a movie. Tales got input from Ron Gilbert and they made a great job. Harry Potter movies are greatly overviewed by the writer e.t.c e.t.c. The original creators' word is the gospel no matter how harsh it sounds.
Demetris
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. BTW, Jurassic Park was based on books by Michael Crichton, and I doubt he agrees with every single thing Spielberg did with the franchise. But you didn't know that and hence call Spielberg's word gospel -- it's the same thing. It's true that ultimately the creator of a story should have final say over what happens to that story, but just look at the horrendous mess Lucas made out of the prequels. I'm not saying that Gilbert would have done the same thing, just that nobody is infallible.
If somebody enjoys something in a story not created by the original author, or which was outside of his/her intentions, then why attack them for it? I certainly enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic (game) a hell of a lot more than any of Lucas' personal visions of Star Wars after the originals.
Comments
This.
I liked the old series, I like the new series. Let's forget all the bull and just enjoy the Monkey Island of today.
Monkey Island 2 spoilers:
The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.
*not really
I'd rather know an answer to this:
With the exceptional lengths it takes Guybrush to navigate to Monkey Island how is it that mere piratey tourists (with a desire to be transformed into the undead via a Voodoo enhanced Theme Park) are able too so easily?
Maybe that is but another secret of Monkey Island...
The first MI game I'd ever played was LeChuck's Revenge. To be honest, the game scared me a bit, especially with the catacombs scene, the atmosphere of Scabb Island, etc. I felt more distressed with the game than amused and entertained by it. This didn't seem like the Monkey Island games I'd read about for years.
And then came Curse. HERE was that game. This was the game that hooked me on Monkey Island. Why? What was it that felt so different about this game? The style. It was beautiful. Gone was the distress from the graveyard and tunnel, and here was the jaunty thrill of the sea battles and the rollercoaster.
I find it a bit disheartening that Curse can't be talked about without mentioning MI2. It doesn't seem to be given a fair shake.
THIS is the secret of Monkey Island.*
* or not.
Bravo. I'm totally replaying the series, with belief that Guybrush is a murderer.
I have always believed, however, that Guybrush was trapped in Lechuck's theme park. If the ending had been reality when Guybrush was a little boy, why would Chuckie's face go all crazy & green?
Sure, the first 2 were quite close to each other, Curse was the return of a Saga, Escape was a experiment. The controls of Escape were terrible, but the story and riddles were ok. TOMI fits nicely into the line.
Game series evolve, change, there is nothing to do about this.
We can't expect the same style of games over 20 years.
Monkey Island will go on if they can think of another way to bring LeChuck back.
That's my idea that I outlined Months ago, the Three Teams thing, with LeChuck gone, there are now many more Pirates rising to be the "new" LeChuck, so lots of attacks, Sword Fights, etc, with the game pretty much falling into three groups, a Group of Pirates lead by Guybrush, a Group of Pirates lead by Largo LaGrande fixated on the fact that they want to get to Monkey Island and Revive LeChuck somehow, and the last group lead by the new main villain, who's that demented, he wants to pass through the gates of Big Whoop on Monkey Island to seal his fate as LeChucks replacement.
I played SoMI and LR as a child, and they were among my favorite games of all time, especially the latter. Something just struck, it was the perfect combination of a serious world/plot, and goofy characters that just made it unlike anything I've seen before or since.
Of course, the difference between the first two games and Curse is that Curse ramped the silliness up to eleven. Which is not to say that I disliked Curse, it's a fine game in its own way, but I can see how someone could consider it too far a departure from the previous games. However, to me it seems that it was not Curse itself that made the last few scenes (the carnival and the loooooong exposition between Guybrush and LeChuck) quite frankly suck, but rather that the team was left with the burden of trying to explain the trainwreck of a plot that was LR (to reiterate so I don't sound hateful; LR is my favorite in the series; the longlasting plot threads were weird though)
One thing that always irked me about Curse, Escape, and even Tales is the mischaracterization, especially of Elaine. In the first two games, she's a governor who is inexplicably attracted to our goofy protagonist. Never once in either game did I ever envision their relationship getting to the point it did in Curse. It just felt so... cheap. Like they needed to tack on a generic happy ending to cover up the failure of the Carnival chapters. To their credit, both Escape and Tales handle the marriage in a good, unique way. Escape has her retain the authoritarian aspect from the first two games, without being annoyingly so, and Tales takes cues from the ending of Escape and makes her into a believable and enjoyable pirate bride for Guybrush. The transition feels natural, but only taking into account her character from Curse. Basically where Curse fails most for me is completely missing the point of the character of Elaine and turning her into exactly the opposite character she was in the prior games.
Also, LeChuck becomes a significant amount goofier. I still remember my heart jumping into my throat when the toll booth lady in LR in the LeChuck costume popped on screen. He was a significant threat, a sadistic creep whose only scenes only served to exemplify his badassery. Tales also does a good job of this, especially in the last two chapters. But something about him in Curse, I dunno, it just seems like they put him in because the game needed a big showdown. He didn't really do anything.
Anyway, that's just my two cents.
Here's where you lost me.
Agreed.
I suspect that had CMI not been made, Ron himself would never have gotten around to making any more MI games. Ever. This means that we wouldn't have CMI (which I love,) we wouldn't have Tales, and we also wouldn't have Dominic Armato or Earl Boen's voices for their characters.
Agreeing 100%. I love MI saga, but the first time I played the LCR end I was really pissed. I was expecting a more 'epic' ending, meaningful and revelating. The story is a full crecendo full of incredible details. It's a perfect story. So the end, on the first moment, was a big dissapointment to me.
Maybe they could have kept the secret of MI hidden and all the Big Whoop affair too, but providing a better end (and still open if they wanted). The first time I played it I had the perception that this game was ended quickly with no clue on what was gonna be the end. Doubting between revealing all the stuff or keeping some info for future releases.
I'm pretty sure that a part of this end was Lucas Arts's fault. I can see Gilbert and Co. wanting to end the full story in 2 games and the company saying: 'NONONONONONONONO, this need to last almost one more game' .
You know, creativity vs business/money.
Clearly you haven't watched LOST.
6 years of mysteriies and most of it remains unanswered or unused backstory just to confuse us. In the end, all that mattered is
I'm not saying I didn't like Lost, but I just didn't realize that all the island mysteries were just something for the characters to play against. In the end, the island mysteries were like the daily schedule of a family on a sitcom. Do we really care if Bobby and Sally were going to yoga or pilates? But Lost made the island, the mythos important. Just like X-Files made aliens and unexplained phenomena important.
The actual "here's what really happened" storyline of Lost could have been told in a 2 week miniseries in front of a green screen.
I don't think you should try to construct MI into some disastrously over-analysed series like Star Wars. Monkey Island games were/are great fun, with good jokes and good stories.
If we stop taking things so seriously, I don't think people would be that bothered about EfMI's failings etc. It's just another in a line of Monkey Island games. We don't need everything to make sense in Monkey Island - that's part of its charm!
For you this might be true, but not for everyone. My dislike of Escape wasn't caused by analyzing it. I disliked it when I played it but wasn't sure why, and then when I thought about it after the fact, I was able to pin down what aspects of it bothered me.
Wanting people not to analyze things is essentially asking them not to think. I really don't know why anyone thinks that's a good thing.
Now Escape, that one just felt like a hollow cash grab to me, made by people who didn't really get what Monkey Island should be (apologies to anyone who may have worked hard on it). To be honest, Tales felt a little like that too until it started picking up around the 3rd episode.
I agree that Escape did not fit in with the world of Monkey Island (mainly because of that f*****g giant robot monkey at the end but I'm curious as to why you feel the first couple of Tales chapters were following this route?
For myself, I feel that the merfolk do not fit in but it does not upset me any where near to the same extent as Mecha-King Kong did.
Also, as always, this is my opinion. I'm well aware that it's different strokes for different folks (just in case anyone flames me for not seeing things their way - i.e. fascists
It doesn't really have anything to do with the Merfolk, though I did think that the writing and design of the first two chapters was not so sharp in general. It had more to do with them being heavily self-referential (the bane of good satire) and throwing in pop-culture references (U-tubes, ugh). It also felt to me at first like these were more like fan tributes than a serious entry into the series. They still contained some good puzzles and the same characters, but for some reasons the initial episodes didn't really feel like "Monkey Island" to me, just like any other decent adventure game. I guess I am a bit overly critical towards any attempt to carry on the MI name.
That all changed with the 3rd episode, where the writing really started to get good, and there was some actual meaningful characterization for the new faces. Not to mention some really great puzzles.
Actually, I heard that one of the endings that they originally came up with for The Secret of Monkey Island WAS a giant robot fight, so it didn't come completely out of nowhere. Not that it was a very good sequence in the first place.
1) While it is hard to explain, I found Curse more "fun" than any of the other games. I believe the puzzles were definitely more clever and the developers did not try to defeat you.
2) I felt the constant island-hopping in LeChuck's Revenge was quite tedious and took too much time.
3) A reason for why I prefer Blood Island to any island in the previous games is because there was more history, more to do. Whilst you just had big islands such as Booty with locations few and far between, Blood had several locations such as the hotel, cemetary, shipwreck, village, etc. but with less boring empty space. There is also a dark history with characters that suit the environment which led me to be endeared with it. This is opposed to some of the huge masses with a few generic locations that had little to no history behind them and some weak gimmicky concepts (Mardi Gras?).
4) Curse took a step in the right direction concerning the Guybrush-Elaine relationship. After playing the first game you get the vibe that they are two traditional lovers. However, for some reason the developers felt the need to force this brother-sister sort of relationship upon them with little to no reason at all in the sequel. I was always bothered by Elaine's reasoning for leaving Guybrush. What the heck made her so angry between the 1st and 2nd games if she already knew he was a pirate? In my opinion, Curse corrects this mistake.
I apologize if my reasoning didn't make any sense at all. And I still loved the all of the games.
Yeah, I have no idea where you two are coming from. I hated the 3rd chapter of Tales of Monkey Island. The humor was alright, the puzzles decent, but there was just something about it that made me dislike it. Of course, I hated the 2nd one even more.
And as to Escape from Monkey Island, are we even really still talking about that? You didn't like it. Big Whoop. Move on with your life. What the hell is the point of talking about it constantly when NO ONE is going to remake it, it's been nigh ELEVEN years since it was made, and Telltale just made a better game than it last year? I don't get the logic.
I'm really sorry as I think I may have not made my post clear. I agreed with your post, the 'no fascists' statement was aimed towards the minority I've come across before who get shirty because you dared to suggest that TOMI is not a perfect game. I hope that clears things up?
Totally agree
I'm actually really glad you said that because I've felt that way for some time now but was too afraid to mention it because I thought I might get a virtual-stoning as a result.
Just so you know, this is the first time I've mentioned anything regarding my feelings on Escape on this site, I am hardly talking about it 'constantly'. I feel I should have the right to put my views on the game forward at least once. Although, I do agree that it's a topic that's been talked to death by others but you know, free speech and all.
Bummer. Though I hardly think one throwaway sentence about it constitutes not moving on with my life. And where did anyone say anything about remaking it? Let the anger go, friend.
Ah..... Blood Island... along with Scabb, both my favourite. Afer, comes Plunder.
But Blood Island is SO awesome. I love the ambience.
You really can't be serious can you? For years and years Ron Gilbert has been saying that probably the ONLY thing he did not like in Curse was the way LA handled the relationship between Elaine and Guybrush as he said that Elaine sees Guybrush as her annoying brother and not as a lover!!!
I like Curse as a game and don't take me wrong. I play it a lot and love it. But if we see it in the continuation there are a lot things which bother me regarding Curse and I am not hitting on the creators or anything. They did a terrific job and brought out an excellent game but things which bothered me where:
1. Lechuck was shows as an idiot!! Really in MI1 and MI2 Lechuck is Scary (especially in 2) and nothing like an idiot!
2. Guybrush was very naive and silly like. I did not like that
3. Elaine with the making my hair stuff! Come on ppl.
4. The beach scene with the towels really brought in my mind Larry from Sierra!
Memorable moments in Curse which I would never trade away are of course Murray and the Pirate Song.. Excellent addition to the series.
Escape was a totaly different approach. It was the time ppl were getting crazy with the polygonal 3D stuff so you either like it or not. You cannot half like it. Storywise was nice to see an additional vilain rather than LeChuck. Clearly he plot was lacking a lot most probably from pushing to get the game out before having a well laid out story. The greatest dissapointment was the robot scene of course for every fan. Besides that it also was a good game
Demetris
Just because Ron Gilbert didn't like something doesn't automatically mean everyone should hate it. The guy is a fantastic game designer and writer, but his word is not some kind of gospel. Let me put it this way: if Gilbert had never said one word about CoMI, would you still feel the same way about the whole Guybrush/Elaine brou-ha-ha? There are some legitimate game design gripes to be had with Curse (too short, oversimplified interface), but character development stuff is ultimately just personal opinion and is kind of silly to call incorrect.
I did not say that ppl should hate it. In MI World I am sorry but yes Ron Gilberts' word is the gospel. period, because he is the original creator. As in Star Wars George Lucas word is the gospel and in Jurassic Park Steven Spielbergs' word is the gospel e.t.c. e.t.c. I specifically said that I meant no offence to anyone of the creators of Curse or Escape and I loved both games (curse more) although my favourite is MI2 Lechucks' revenge. The writer of a book or a series or something (original creator) is one whose opinion should not be taken light hearted. Prince of Persia movie they got the creator to put info in the story together and they made a hell of a movie. Tales got input from Ron Gilbert and they made a great job. Harry Potter movies are greatly overviewed by the writer e.t.c e.t.c. The original creators' word is the gospel no matter how harsh it sounds.
Demetris
I personally don't care if he does one or not, if he did, I'd buy it. The only reason I would want him to is to get people to shut up about it so they can maybe finally enjoy the games that came after the first two.
Hmmm.. Where did you see me mentioning that Ron should make MI3? Where did you see me mentioning that Curse or Escape is a mishap!? I mentioned above and read it thoroughly that I loved both Curse and Escape and mentioned some things which bothered me. Nothing else
Demetris
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. BTW, Jurassic Park was based on books by Michael Crichton, and I doubt he agrees with every single thing Spielberg did with the franchise. But you didn't know that and hence call Spielberg's word gospel -- it's the same thing. It's true that ultimately the creator of a story should have final say over what happens to that story, but just look at the horrendous mess Lucas made out of the prequels. I'm not saying that Gilbert would have done the same thing, just that nobody is infallible.
If somebody enjoys something in a story not created by the original author, or which was outside of his/her intentions, then why attack them for it? I certainly enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic (game) a hell of a lot more than any of Lucas' personal visions of Star Wars after the originals.