If I'm completely honest I haven't been entirely 'bowled over' by this season. Something has felt missing - whether it's because they're not on a 'case' per-say, the locations not having many random clickables, a lack of reference-based humour that drew me to the series in the first place or perhaps even the story itself.
Same here… I lost the "point&click" feel… because of that "walk&stare" game*design due to consoles, the game is more about walking at the right place and looking some key elements, and that’s all, no more incredible descriptions of very detailed environment… and I don’t know if it’s because of the episodic format, or because different people are designing episodes, writing the story and the lines, but it feels not very well written, like the plot and the dialogs are more a funny exquisite corpse than a real story… too many bad guys, too few "cracking up" lines about an improbable and edgy past, so the plot don’t feel like a full story, the universe is less credible in its crazyness, and the lines are not as funny as they could be.
Still, it’s not bad at all, way better than a Runaway game, for example, but something is missing, for sure… Has telltale ever thought of hiring a very high level team (2) of writers for that*? It’s so important in those games…
IMO the first 30 minutes of the game were the BEST. It's an awesome direction that actually brings more of the feel of what Sam and Max (or at least Sam) should really be about. The interrogation, the rugged Sam making his way to get his buddy back PI style? Awesome.
Oh yeah and the rest of the episode was really awesome as well with regards to most of what was going on, but the first 30 min were what really blew me away and gave me a great change of pace. Loved the Museum as well.
Same here… I lost the "point&click" feel… because of that "walk&stare" game*design due to consoles, the game is more about walking at the right place and looking some key elements, and that’s all, no more incredible descriptions of very detailed environment… and I don’t know if it’s because of the episodic format, or because different people are designing episodes, writing the story and the lines, but it feels not very well written, like the plot and the dialogs are more a funny exquisite corpse than a real story… too many bad guys, too few "cracking up" lines about an improbable and edgy past, so the plot don’t feel like a full story, the universe is less credible in its crazyness, and the lines are not as funny as they could be.
Still, it’s not bad at all, way better than a Runaway game, for example, but something is missing, for sure… Has telltale ever thought of hiring a very high level team (2) of writers for that*? It’s so important in those games…
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking. I don't mind about the lack of 'point and click', I was happy to be able to sit on my bed with a joypad. I think perhaps they could combine the two control styles and have one thumbstick move the character, the other move a pointer of some description.
Is there a writer missing from this season that was on both of the other two?
I don't like criticising it as I adored the first two seasons, but I'm not all that excited about playing the next episode. Argh, I hate saying it.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking. I don't mind about the lack of 'point and click', I was happy to be able to sit on my bed with a joypad. I think perhaps they could combine the two control styles and have one thumbstick move the character, the other move a pointer of some description.
Could try this if Telltale ever decides to incorporate the 360 control scheme from S1/2 into the PC/PS3 versions.
I really liked the noir section of the game. At first I thought it was going to be the best TT episode ever, but I soon realized it wasn't for me, only for difficulty level and length reasons.
I agree. Really liked the noir section, especially when Sam flicks the rat. That was just priceless.
But this episode was too easy, and some of the puzzles were sort of uninspired.
My biggest disappointment are the "boss fights": both are extremely simple. I think it makes dramatic sense to have an anti-climatic, no-brainer final puzzle, but then they should ramp up the difficulty of the penultimate fight. There are lots of red herrings in the set-up, and I wonder whether these represent discarded ideas that could have been in the puzzle.
I'm not liking Season Three as a whole, really. =/
It's getting "better" all the time, but the season started very badly and as the episodes go on, the polish and shine of the presentation elements becomes less and less capable of compensating for frustratingly oversimplistic puzzles that literally solve themselves before you even know what it is that you're supposed to do.
Thinking back about it, I really liked how episode 303 worked out in the end, though it did rather feel like three disjointed games while playing it.
The main thing is, Telltale seem so keen to try out "new things" like the time-based dialogue and special powers, that we're lacking some of the old standbys like Bosco's, the Office and inventory puzzles. If only the new stuff added onto the old rather than replacing it, then these games would be stellar.
Oh, and the transitions between all the different states of animation, be it Sam's posture or what state Max's mind wheel is in, are sometimes a bit glitchy. Not enough to hurt the gameplay a lot but I wonder if they were under time pressure with this.
The main thing is, Telltale seem so keen to try out "new things" like the time-based dialogue and special powers, that we're lacking some of the old standbys like Bosco's, the Office and inventory puzzles. If only the new stuff added onto the old rather than replacing it, then these games would be stellar.
Thats exactly it, before the season started I was pretty open about having the psychic powers as a puzzle solving mechanism to help you out with some tricky inventory puzzles alongside what we expect from sam and max. Im surprised telltale have ditched these kind of puzzles completely for 303, even in 301 most of the items could be ramdomly plugged into the crime-tron which was pretty unsatisfying. For me, logical inventory puzzles make a good graphic adventure I've never been too fussed about the story. I think Telltale need to replay Season 2 for a bit of inspiration becuase there seems to be too many repeated solutions using psychic powers or boring dialogue puzzles which turn out to be trial and error.
Im still looking forward to 304 but I hope sam has more crap in his pockets
Well I loved 303, probably my favourite so far - but story's always come before gameplay for me, which was a bit lacklustre this time Gotta say the new characters totally did it for me though - Sammun-Mak and Sal are probably my favourite characters now after Sam & Max themselves.
The main thing is, Telltale seem so keen to try out "new things" like the time-based dialogue and special powers, that we're lacking some of the old standbys like Bosco's, the Office and inventory puzzles. If only the new stuff added onto the old rather than replacing it, then these games would be stellar.
Bosco's came along on Season One (well, it was on Hit the Road as a sign), overstayed its welcome but made a graceful retreat. I'm happy it's gone.
Thing is, those inventory-based puzzles? They could get pretty lame. I'm happy that Telltale is trying new things. The psychic powers idea works really well, and I'm happy it has replaced a significant chunk of inventory based puzzles. To put it another way, it's always the strange, original puzzles that make a game shine.
Thing is, those inventory-based puzzles? They could get pretty lame. I'm happy that Telltale is trying new things
Inventory puzzles are lame? So every successful graphic adventure of the last 20years is lame? they are the reason we are still here playing and talking about these games 15/20 years on. Somehow I dont think we'll be talking about devil's playhouse in 2030. I agree you can have great adventure games without them (discworld noir) but I wouldnt go as far as calling them lame.
Maybe you've played them too many times but that sounds like an insult to the entire lucasarts(and telltale) back catalogue. Curse was a great game despite it not being particularly 'original' and didnt really try anything new except having some fantastic logical, but tough and satisfying puzzles to solve. For me that makes a great adventure game but by all means, try something new-just don't ditch guns completely for modern warefare 3
Jeez, dude, calm down. Kroms said "could get lame", not that all inventory-based puzzles are lame. And Kroms is right. Have you really never played a bad adventure game? Believe me, they're out there -- LucasArts isn't the only company that ever developed adventure games. You mentioned yourself, in your previous post, that the crime-tron puzzles in Ep. 1 were unsatisfying (and I totally agree with you there).
I'm thrilled that Telltale has taken the series down a new path with highly innovative gameplay. I have some quibbles with the execution, but it doesn't follow that all good adventures have to have inventory-based puzzles.
And if the office and Bosco's aren't relevant to the story, then they should leave 'em out. If they're forced to include them out of obligation, then they'll just end up being, yes, lame.
perhaps a misinterpretation on my part but at the end of the day Tales showed no signs of an ageing gameplay mechanic and the puzzles were far from becoming lame. Ive played plenty of bad adventure games but not one from Telltale and I feel to an extent they should stick to what they are good at-allthough I do agree the innovative gameplay is good for the genre , it seems they havent quite pulled it off as the games seem too reliant on it and personally I think it would have worked better with more even balance between psychic and inventory puzzles
People who say that they wished the dialogue/noir part should've been longer: Clearly, you don't play Sam and Max and expect this. There are just so little possibilites for this to continue, including the fact you would need more characters for this to go on. And believe me, I liked that part as much as the next guy, but I think it was long enough.
P.S: This is honestly my 1st placer for Sam and Max games, Reality 2.0 at 2nd.
The noir section was great, but BoneFreak is right: make it the core of the game and you miss out on a lot of the other puzzles.
Actually, I quite liked 303 for its lack of inventory- it reminded me a bit of the Phoenix Wright games, the interrogation was much like the Edgeworth title and Max's direction of Sam reminded me of Phoenix in the courtroom pressing a witness. But even those games had time away from the courtroom or interrogation, and like 303, probably would have suffered if they only used one kind of gameplay mechanic.
I actually thought that the Sam section and the Max one at the end mirrored each other nicely as they were both non-inventory dialogue puzzles, with some more standard psy and item puzzles in the middle.
The only thing I miss is a more fleshed out world. There really isn't nearly as much 'side story' (dialogue attached to items) in the 3rd season as there was in the second. Part of this is due to us having fewer items to begin with (302 utilized hexes and 303 had dialogues, items that could not be directly clicked on or manipulated) but 301 did have a pretty surprisingly large world.
Inventory puzzles are lame? So every successful graphic adventure of the last 20years is lame? they are the reason we are still here playing and talking about these games 15/20 years on. Somehow I dont think we'll be talking about devil's playhouse in 2030. I agree you can have great adventure games without them (discworld noir) but I wouldnt go as far as calling them lame.
My point is that people seem to always remember the creative, off-shot puzzles than the "stick-a-golden-tooth-in-a-helium-balloon-and-watch-'er-fly-out-the-window". Insult sword-fighting, pirate face-off, manatee insanity. Even breaking the formula just a little, like not needing to prep everyone up for battle in "Strong Badia the Free", is more memorable.
Another thing: I do actually think people will be talking about The Devil's Playhouse in 2030. It's already become one of my all-time favorite games. I do miss clicking on random objects for clever observations, yeah. Sometimes I wish they ran with a certain mechanic further than they did (Astral Projection, interrogation). But all in all, I'd say it's a classic in the making.
Now I've moved on a bit from playing the episode, I think what really made me enjoy this was the sudden changes and surprises! I didnt know who stole Max's brain until I saw it before my own eyes and I loved the return of Papierwaite.
My point is that people seem to always remember the creative, off-shot puzzles than the "stick-a-golden-tooth-in-a-helium-balloon-and-watch-'er-fly-out-the-window". Insult sword-fighting, pirate face-off, manatee insanity. Even breaking the formula just a little, like not needing to prep everyone up for battle in "Strong Badia the Free", is more memorable.
The reason people remember those puzzles is because they were the exception in the games.
Also, I give you 'rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle' and 'I can't use the skeleton arm with that'.
The ONLY thing I didn't like was the female voice with the over-the-top accent. & why a (fake?) British accent for an Egyptian? Why a girl's voice for a boy king?
I loved dicking around with the corndog tower & always enjoy an angry Sam. I also loved the neighborhood renovation; made me wish I could roll around in the sand. There is no sand where I live, just mud & rocky shorelines.
The ONLY thing I didn't like was the female voice with the over-the-top accent. & why a (fake?) British accent for an Egyptian? Why a girl's voice for a boy king?
I loved dicking around with the corndog tower & always enjoy an angry Sam. I also loved the neighborhood renovation; made me wish I could roll around in the sand. There is no sand where I live, just mud & rocky shorelines.
I didn't think Sammunmak's voice sounded too female. I didn't even realise it was Nicki Rapp until I saw the credits. Lots of boy children in animations are voiced by women, most notable probably is Bart Simpson. Probably because the voice hasn't broke yet so unless you actually hire a child actor you have to go with that direction.
The British accent works for me, as you usually hear that kind of thing as a stereotypical "royal" voice. For me, it wouldn't sound convincing with an American accent and I sure wouldn't recognize what an ancient Egyptian accent is supposed to sound like!
Sometimes I wish they ran with a certain mechanic further than they did (Astral Projection, interrogation). But all in all, I'd say it's a classic in the making.
Do you think that each episode's use of a certain toy of power and style of gameplay are "training" for the finale?
Imagine the final episode, with all powers at the same time, and all game mechanics like interrogation, out-of-sequence gameplay, etc.
Comments
Same here… I lost the "point&click" feel… because of that "walk&stare" game*design due to consoles, the game is more about walking at the right place and looking some key elements, and that’s all, no more incredible descriptions of very detailed environment… and I don’t know if it’s because of the episodic format, or because different people are designing episodes, writing the story and the lines, but it feels not very well written, like the plot and the dialogs are more a funny exquisite corpse than a real story… too many bad guys, too few "cracking up" lines about an improbable and edgy past, so the plot don’t feel like a full story, the universe is less credible in its crazyness, and the lines are not as funny as they could be.
Still, it’s not bad at all, way better than a Runaway game, for example, but something is missing, for sure… Has telltale ever thought of hiring a very high level team (2) of writers for that*? It’s so important in those games…
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking. I don't mind about the lack of 'point and click', I was happy to be able to sit on my bed with a joypad. I think perhaps they could combine the two control styles and have one thumbstick move the character, the other move a pointer of some description.
Is there a writer missing from this season that was on both of the other two?
I don't like criticising it as I adored the first two seasons, but I'm not all that excited about playing the next episode. Argh, I hate saying it.
Could try this if Telltale ever decides to incorporate the 360 control scheme from S1/2 into the PC/PS3 versions.
I agree. Really liked the noir section, especially when Sam flicks the rat. That was just priceless.
But this episode was too easy, and some of the puzzles were sort of uninspired.
It's getting "better" all the time, but the season started very badly and as the episodes go on, the polish and shine of the presentation elements becomes less and less capable of compensating for frustratingly oversimplistic puzzles that literally solve themselves before you even know what it is that you're supposed to do.
The main thing is, Telltale seem so keen to try out "new things" like the time-based dialogue and special powers, that we're lacking some of the old standbys like Bosco's, the Office and inventory puzzles. If only the new stuff added onto the old rather than replacing it, then these games would be stellar.
Oh, and the transitions between all the different states of animation, be it Sam's posture or what state Max's mind wheel is in, are sometimes a bit glitchy. Not enough to hurt the gameplay a lot but I wonder if they were under time pressure with this.
Im still looking forward to 304 but I hope sam has more crap in his pockets
Bosco's came along on Season One (well, it was on Hit the Road as a sign), overstayed its welcome but made a graceful retreat. I'm happy it's gone.
Thing is, those inventory-based puzzles? They could get pretty lame. I'm happy that Telltale is trying new things. The psychic powers idea works really well, and I'm happy it has replaced a significant chunk of inventory based puzzles. To put it another way, it's always the strange, original puzzles that make a game shine.
Inventory puzzles are lame? So every successful graphic adventure of the last 20years is lame? they are the reason we are still here playing and talking about these games 15/20 years on. Somehow I dont think we'll be talking about devil's playhouse in 2030. I agree you can have great adventure games without them (discworld noir) but I wouldnt go as far as calling them lame.
Maybe you've played them too many times but that sounds like an insult to the entire lucasarts(and telltale) back catalogue. Curse was a great game despite it not being particularly 'original' and didnt really try anything new except having some fantastic logical, but tough and satisfying puzzles to solve. For me that makes a great adventure game but by all means, try something new-just don't ditch guns completely for modern warefare 3
I'm thrilled that Telltale has taken the series down a new path with highly innovative gameplay. I have some quibbles with the execution, but it doesn't follow that all good adventures have to have inventory-based puzzles.
And if the office and Bosco's aren't relevant to the story, then they should leave 'em out. If they're forced to include them out of obligation, then they'll just end up being, yes, lame.
P.S: This is honestly my 1st placer for Sam and Max games, Reality 2.0 at 2nd.
Actually, I quite liked 303 for its lack of inventory- it reminded me a bit of the Phoenix Wright games, the interrogation was much like the Edgeworth title and Max's direction of Sam reminded me of Phoenix in the courtroom pressing a witness. But even those games had time away from the courtroom or interrogation, and like 303, probably would have suffered if they only used one kind of gameplay mechanic.
I actually thought that the Sam section and the Max one at the end mirrored each other nicely as they were both non-inventory dialogue puzzles, with some more standard psy and item puzzles in the middle.
The only thing I miss is a more fleshed out world. There really isn't nearly as much 'side story' (dialogue attached to items) in the 3rd season as there was in the second. Part of this is due to us having fewer items to begin with (302 utilized hexes and 303 had dialogues, items that could not be directly clicked on or manipulated) but 301 did have a pretty surprisingly large world.
My point is that people seem to always remember the creative, off-shot puzzles than the "stick-a-golden-tooth-in-a-helium-balloon-and-watch-'er-fly-out-the-window". Insult sword-fighting, pirate face-off, manatee insanity. Even breaking the formula just a little, like not needing to prep everyone up for battle in "Strong Badia the Free", is more memorable.
Another thing: I do actually think people will be talking about The Devil's Playhouse in 2030. It's already become one of my all-time favorite games. I do miss clicking on random objects for clever observations, yeah. Sometimes I wish they ran with a certain mechanic further than they did (Astral Projection, interrogation). But all in all, I'd say it's a classic in the making.
The reason people remember those puzzles is because they were the exception in the games.
Also, I give you 'rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle' and 'I can't use the skeleton arm with that'.
I loved dicking around with the corndog tower & always enjoy an angry Sam. I also loved the neighborhood renovation; made me wish I could roll around in the sand. There is no sand where I live, just mud & rocky shorelines.
I didn't think Sammunmak's voice sounded too female. I didn't even realise it was Nicki Rapp until I saw the credits. Lots of boy children in animations are voiced by women, most notable probably is Bart Simpson. Probably because the voice hasn't broke yet so unless you actually hire a child actor you have to go with that direction.
The British accent works for me, as you usually hear that kind of thing as a stereotypical "royal" voice. For me, it wouldn't sound convincing with an American accent and I sure wouldn't recognize what an ancient Egyptian accent is supposed to sound like!
Do you think that each episode's use of a certain toy of power and style of gameplay are "training" for the finale?
Imagine the final episode, with all powers at the same time, and all game mechanics like interrogation, out-of-sequence gameplay, etc.