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Ending differences in ToMI Chapter 5 (Beta and Final Versions)

Debbie82Debbie82
edited May 2013 in Tales of Monkey Island
I stumbled upon GameFAQs and came upon the screenshots from Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 5: Rise of the Pirate God, and I noticed some differences in the ending between the Beta and Final Versions of the game. In the Beta version, Elaine was still a demon bride when La Esponja Grande became small again, yet she turned on LeChuck and fought the skeletons. These screenshot links are proof of this:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/351/961265_20091218_screen022.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/351/961265_20091218_screen023.jpg

And yet her appearance became different in the Final version when she returned to her normal, brighter self, yet still in her black dress, as shown in the video link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LwrThKAQWo

Also, the ending is much different in the Beta version, when Elaine was still a demon bride in LeChuck's ship along with Winslow in the darkness even after Guybrush returned to life with her ring:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/351/961265_20091218_screen024.jpg

Yet this is much different than in the Final version, when the normal-self Elaine in her black dress is on the Screaming Narwhal with Winslow at sunrise as shown in the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDvSi122JmA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1naGEoyFV4k

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h195/angeldeb82/MonkeyIslandSeries/ToMI5RebornGuybrushandElaine.jpg

So I've been wondering how the programmers changed the ending from the Beta version to what is now in the Final version? :confused:

Comments

  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited August 2010
    Debbie82 wrote: »
    Also, the ending is much different in the Beta version, when Elaine was still a demon bride in LeChuck's ship along with Winslow in the darkness even after Guybrush returned to life with her ring:

    http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/351/961265_20091218_screen024.jpg

    That's all really interesting, but this image in particular shows a door with a crescent moon on it. The Narwhal has such a door, not LeChuck's ship.
  • Debbie82Debbie82
    edited August 2010
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    That's all really interesting, but this image in particular shows a door with a crescent moon on it. The Narwhal has such a door, not LeChuck's ship.

    Well, that may be why the walkthrough on Gamezebo had confused the Screaming Narwhal with LeChuck's ship because it was night in the Beta version, and Gamezebo STILL has a walkthrough of the Beta version of ToMI Chapter 5.
  • PolychromePolychrome
    edited August 2010
    Huh! Now I'm starting to wonder what all changed! Maybe they'd originally intended for Guybrush to remain in Zombie mode?
  • MermaidMermaid
    edited August 2010
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    That's all really interesting, but this image in particular shows a door with a crescent moon on it. The Narwhal has such a door, not LeChuck's ship.

    That reminds me when they forgot to, eh, "run a code" or something to have Guybrush have his hook in EP4. There had been a sneak preview screenshot of him and Elaine in court where he accidentally had his left hand back. Anybody remember what I'm talking about?
  • Debbie82Debbie82
    edited August 2010
    Mermaid wrote: »
    That reminds me when they forgot to, eh, "run a code" or something to have Guybrush have his hook in EP4. There had been a sneak preview screenshot of him and Elaine in court where he accidentally had his left hand back. Anybody remember what I'm talking about?

    Don't you mean Elaine waltzing with him OUTSIDE of court at night?
  • priznaprizna
    edited August 2010
    tales-of-monkey-island-chapter-4-the-trial-and-execution-of-guybrush-threepwood-20091028000657933_640w.jpg
  • MermaidMermaid
    edited August 2010
    prizna wrote: »
    tales-of-monkey-island-chapter-4-the-trial-and-execution-of-guybrush-threepwood-20091028000657933_640w.jpg

    That. Thanks.
  • Hassat HunterHassat Hunter
    edited August 2010
    Well, "normal" black dress Elaine being "evil" Elaine probably is just a lack of having her new model yet... a placeholder. That happens all the time, so isn't really an indication something else was going on.
  • JJoyceJJoyce
    edited August 2010
    Debbie82 wrote: »
    So I've been wondering how the programmers changed the ending from the Beta version to what is now in the Final version? :confused:

    I may be able to cast a little light on the mystery.

    As you've already noticed, the review code that was sent out was a "working copy" rather than finished.

    Obviously I don't still have the e-mail that accompanied it, but as I recall, they'd wanted to push review code out to make sure publications could meet deadlines in time for the launch of the finale, but the developers were still working on completing the game, particularly the ending. As I recall, they worked on that straight up until a day or two before the episode released.

    In fact, I recall the review code didn't even include certain cinematics. The ending wasn't finished, but there was one scene I think mid-episode that they still hadn't finished either.

    And they did use placeholders in parts, which could account for the Elaine discrepancies.

    To the best of my recollection, they sent out another email with avi files attached to fill in the gaps for the missing cinematics a few days after they sent out the review code and may or may not have sent out a "final" review copy immediately before the episode launched.
  • Debbie82Debbie82
    edited August 2010
    I think I may be getting your point, JJoyce. :)
  • Bloody EugeneBloody Eugene
    edited August 2010
    One thing we need for sure in a *possible* second season: A LOT OF EXPLANATIONS!!!!
  • splash1splash1
    edited August 2010
    The scary almost not demon version of Elaine is obviously an older model rather then the newer. I can kind of tell because in this screenshot it looks like they haven't finished putting the edge and such that makes MI look so good.

    It's just a shame that the beta version didn't contain an ending where Guybrush soaks up La Esponja and becomes Demonbrush Threepwood. The concepts obviously show that they planned for it, but they didn't want to do a good job in making him epic looking.
  • Debbie82Debbie82
    edited November 2010
    splash1 wrote: »
    The scary almost not demon version of Elaine is obviously an older model rather then the newer. I can kind of tell because in this screenshot it looks like they haven't finished putting the edge and such that makes MI look so good.

    It's just a shame that the beta version didn't contain an ending where Guybrush soaks up La Esponja and becomes Demonbrush Threepwood. The concepts obviously show that they planned for it, but they didn't want to do a good job in making him epic looking.

    I hate to bring this up, but about the "Demonbrush Threepwood" thing, this title of ToMI Chapter 4 would not have been "The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood". I'm glad, but still bittersweet, that LeChuck soaks up the voodoo from the sponge after killing Guybrush in fulfillment of the chapter's title instead of the other way around.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2010
    I think it's mostly a simple matter of, when we took the screenshots for Ch 5, Elaine's "transformed but still wearing the same clothes" costume change wasn't done. Nothing too clever or secret behind it, sorry to say :P
  • TrenchfootTrenchfoot
    edited November 2010
    splash1 wrote: »

    It's just a shame that the beta version didn't contain an ending where Guybrush soaks up La Esponja and becomes Demonbrush Threepwood. The concepts obviously show that they planned for it, but they didn't want to do a good job in making him epic looking.

    There's concept art for this? Where??
  • GuruGuru214GuruGuru214
    edited November 2010
    On the DVD, the file is "chr_guybrush_demon".
  • FarlanderFarlander
    edited November 2010
    I think Guybrush is in his full 'demon form' when he jumps crazy at Bugeye, though then reverts back a bit, so it WAS used, albeit briefly.

    EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood that for the 'poxed' art. Though, by the look of 'normal' Guybrush on that concept, my guess is that this 'Demon' stuff was the first version of the Pox or something like that.
  • Captain MickeyCaptain Mickey
    edited November 2010
    Wait, there was a concept art for Demon!Guybrush? Or are you talking about the pox art work?
  • GuruGuru214GuruGuru214
    edited November 2010
    No, he's got horns and a grimace and everything.
  • mgrantmgrant
    edited November 2010
    I really don't remember that concept art, I'll have to pop in my DVD and check it.
  • Captain MickeyCaptain Mickey
    edited November 2010
    GuruGuru214 wrote: »
    No, he's got horns and a grimace and everything.

    Wha-- seriously?! ...Is there any chance I can see this?
  • IrishmileIrishmile
    edited November 2010
    I do find the process and finding little differences satisfactory. Reminds me of being a kid and spotting what toys used the same mold and just repainted them.....
  • GuruGuru214GuruGuru214
    edited November 2010
    Captain Mickey wrote: »
    Wha-- seriously?! ...Is there any chance I can see this?

    All right, I'll post it. If I'm not supposed to, someone let me know and I'll take it down.

    chr_guybrush_demon.jpg
  • TrenchfootTrenchfoot
    edited November 2010
    That's really cool! I wonder if they would play with the fire thing, like making Guybrush accidentally burn everything around him or something like that...
  • Captain MickeyCaptain Mickey
    edited November 2010
    I woke up to check the message board and I wake up to this. Freaked out for a good 3 minutes (Demon!Guybrush = Freaky), but holy cow that is an awesome concept art!
  • Murray the ChaoMurray the Chao
    edited November 2010
    Interesting that the demon form looks like a hybrid of Guybrush and Satan, rather then a green-skinned Guybrush with red eyes a la demon Elaine, or Guybrush with pale skin and flaming hair, like demon LeChuck.
  • mgrantmgrant
    edited November 2010
    The idea of Guybrush with a little flaming goatee is horribly amusing though.
  • doom saberdoom saber
    edited November 2010
    The TT episodes are usually finished around the last couple of days prior to release

    I recall playin the "Beta" version of Abe Lincoln Must Die! during one of their opinion days or whatever it is called when they invite ppl to play for an opinion. I remember how some versions of the episode (depending which computer you were playing it on) didn't have the poll scene in one of the cutscenes.
  • ryannumber1gamerryannumber1gamer
    edited April 2012
    About beta pictures Take Back to the future the game for example for the previews they used beta versions

    Episode 3-Marty talking to Biff outside the city gates
    George and Lorraine inside Marty's house when in the final version their house is locked up because of dust bunnys
    During the end of the preview we see Marty and First Citizen Brown talking in a dark room with just the light of the clock from the clock tower but in the final version the game they are in a different room where you see loads of stuff and this is Citizen Brown's office

    Episode 4. First we see Marty telling Jennifer about him being from a different timeline in Citizen Brown's office but in the final game he does not say this line to anyone and we never see Citizen Brown's office again.
    Then we see Citizen Brown lying down on a mat asking why? to Edna and she saying because your weak Emmett again we do not see this place in the final version. we see Emmett in the place where his rocket car was in episode 2. we see Emmett and Edna walking around the town square (again only able to go here for about 2 minutes and you can only walk from the courthouse to where Emmett is.
    Also Emmett and Edna are wearing their 1931 clothes from episodes 1 and 2 while in the final game they wear different clothes.

    So that might be why Elaine might still be in her Lechuck's Bride form and it's the same for episode 4 where Elaine and Guybrush are dancing outside of the pirate court in those pictures. it could be because those are beta pictures that Telltale used while still working on the games
  • Debbie82Debbie82
    edited April 2012
    ryannumber1gamer wrote: »
    About beta pictures Take Back to the future the game for example for the previews they used beta versions

    Episode 3-Marty talking to Marty outside the city gates
    George and Lorraine inside Marty's house when in the final version their house is locked up because of dust bunnys
    During the end of the preview we see Marty and First Citizen Brown talking in a dark room with just the light of the clock from the clock tower but in the final version the game they are in a different room where you see loads of stuff and this is Citizen Brown's office

    Episode 4. First we see Marty telling Jennifer about him being from a different timeline in Citizen Brown's office but in the final game he does not say this line to anyone and we never see Citizen Brown's office again.
    Then we see Citizen Brown lying down on a mat asking why? to Edna and she saying because your weak Emmett again we do not see this place in the final version. we see Emmett in the place where his rocket car was in episode 2. we see Emmett and Edna walking around the town square (again only able to go here for about 2 minutes and you can only walk from the courthouse to where Emmett is.
    Also Emmett and Edna are wearing their 1931 clothes from episodes 1 and 2 while in the final game they wear different clothes.

    So that might be why Elaine might still be in her Lechuck's Bride form and it's the same for episode 4 where Elaine and Guybrush are dancing outside of the pirate court in those pictures. it could be because those are beta pictures that Telltale used while still working on the games

    Don't forget about when Guybrush shows Noogie the picture of Sister Agnes while making a Pirate Face in front of him in TOMI Chapter 3. In the final version, he never shows Noogie the picture while making that face, as the nun picture is still pinned to Noogie's profile.
  • ryannumber1gamerryannumber1gamer
    edited April 2012
    I never seen that pic the only beta pics i seen was the episode 5 ones that are posted here and that episode 4 one.

    Edit: I did see the beta pic from episode 3 i just didn't remember seeing it ;)
  • ryannumber1gamerryannumber1gamer
    edited August 2012
    You know the concept art Guru posted,Could this mean Guybrush might have been the villain of Episode 5. When you think about it Telltale are great at making people you don't suspect as the main villains such as...
    The Soda Poppers from Sam & Max season 2, Charlie from Sam & Max Season 3,Edna from Back To The Future (I mean about her always being crazy and her being the one who was burning down buildings in Hill Valley in Episode 5 ),The Voodoo Lady from Tales Of Monkey Island (It could have been her who did this to Guybrush at the end of episode 4 if Guybrush turned into the villain) The girl from Jurrassic Park who wanted to free the Dinosaurs (Don't remember her name sorry).
  • ryannumber1gamerryannumber1gamer
    edited May 2013
    You know i was thinking but is it possible evil Guybrush concept art could be a overly poxed version of Guybrush that maybe was to show the effects of the pox getting worst on Guybrush who at the center of the blast of pox.
  • Master of AeonsMaster of Aeons
    edited May 2013
    That's really interesting. I always thought that Chapter 5 would have Guybrush going through each of LeChuck's incarnations to be strong enough to fight him. So I was disappointed that we never went into demon form.

    The ending was amazing though, and it's one of my favorite Telltale games. Possibly tied with Sam and Max 3.
  • GaryCXJkGaryCXJk
    edited May 2013
    Debbie82 wrote: »
    http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/351/961265_20091218_screen024.jpg

    I... I think I'll go request rule 34 for this one now...
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