›

Re: Ending to Season 3 (The City That Dares Not Sleep)

Corvin25Corvin25
edited September 2010 in Sam & Max
The ending bummed me out. Oh. MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW. DO NOT HIGHLIGHT UNLESS YOU HAVE BEATEN THE GAME... OR JUST DON'T CARE.
I was bummed out. Not just because "real" max supposedly was vaporized. But because "new max" replacing him felt kinda tacked on. I don't know about you guys. But any seasons after Season 3, I won't be able to look at Max without thinking "That's not the real Max!!" Not to mention Sam so readily accepting this other Max as his new bestest little buddy.

If there's another season, and it perhaps deals with time travel or alternate universes... maybe this could be fixed. What if, in an alternate universe, Sam never got his buddy back, and obsessed over bringing him back for the rest of his life? What if, an elderly Sam used a time machine to bring young Sam a machine that would bring back his ORIGINAL little buddy? Now that would be quite a hard choice for Sam to make. Stick with the new Max, or bring back the Max he's known his whole life? Would make for an interesting episode, or even season.

What if the GHOST of Original Max somehow got merged with the soul of New Max? What if the entire multiverse was threatened by some unknown force, and all the Sams/Maxes from each parallel universe had to step in and save the last surviving plane of existence... OURS? What if all of their different incarnations' memories, thoughts, and spirits ended up merging with our heroes? There's so many ways this could be fixed, Telltale. I just hope it GETS fixed.

Overall it was a great season. But the ending kinda ruined it for me. I'm just too attached to the characters. This is like when your childhood dog gets run over... Except your parents get you a new puppy, when the old one isn't even buried or COLD yet.

Bad ending, Telltale. Bad. No after-season cake for you.

P.S.: Positive note: Great job on working the season title into the dialogue. Seriously. I never would have guessed that would be the theme of the series.
«1

Comments

  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    Corvin25 wrote: »
    I was bummed out. Not just because "real" max supposedly was vaporized. But because "new max" replacing him felt kinda tacked on. I don't know about you guys. But any seasons after Season 3, I won't be able to look at Max without thinking "That's not the real Max!!" Not to mention Sam so readily accepting this other Max as his new bestest little buddy.

    Well, I read something on the forum that help me moving on! :p
    The Max you played with is not the original Max. The original Max already died in the comics and had been cloned.

    By the way, Telltale Team: how was it possible in the comics and not in the game?
  • The-J23The-J23
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    Well, I read something on the forum that help me moving on! :p
    The Max you played with is not the original Max. The original Max already died in the comics and had been cloned.

    By the way, Telltale Team: how was it possible in the comics and not in the game?

    I can clear that up:
    It is the real max, when Max dies in the comic his soul gets trapped in Sams hand.Sam(who was carrying Maxes remains)kind of made a hand puppet using a pen and the top half of his head(which in my guess is where they got "Maxes severed head" for the TF2 thing). Anyway by using whats left of Max and by hooking Sam up to some machine they were able to bring back the old Max, just with a new body.

    hope that clears it all up.
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    The-J23 wrote: »
    I can clear that up:
    It is the real max, when Max dies in the comic his soul gets trapped in Sams hand.Sam(who was carrying Maxes remains)kind of made a hand puppet using a pen and the top half of his head(which in my guess is where they got "Maxes severed head" for the TF2 thing). Anyway by using whats left of Max and by hooking Sam up to some machine they were able to bring back the old Max, just with a new body.

    hope that clears it all up.

    I'm not sure I understood... it was more like healing?
  • Emo HoeEmo Hoe
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understood... it was more like healing?

    It was sort of a cross between healing and cloning.

    Max's body was re-created from the mushed up remains Sam had been carrying around. It is ambiguous as to whether this was literal reconstruction or mere cloning from the DNA. Then his spirit, which was in Sam's hand, was put back into the body.

    I suspect the whole Momma Bosco getting her body back via cloning is a nod to this.
  • The-J23The-J23
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understood... it was more like healing?

    yeah, I guess you could put it that way.
    It's still the old Max, unlike this one

    The comic is called "Bad Day on the Moon" if you want to check it out.
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    The-J23 wrote: »
    The comic is called "Bad Day on the Moon" if you want to check it out.

    Thanks. I'll wait that the Season 3 DVD comes out to order it and Surfin' in the Highway (cause it IS on Surfin' in the Highway... right?)
  • russell19831983russell19831983
    edited August 2010
    Its max from 102, in episode 204 sam and max go back in time and meet sam and max from 102 who steal the time machine, so after sam and max from 204 repeat the whole year a while later the duplicate sam and max go off on their own adventures using the time elevator, and thats the duplicate max at the end of 305
  • The-J23The-J23
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    Thanks. I'll wait that the Season 3 DVD comes out to order it and Surfin' in the Highway (cause it IS on Surfin' in the Highway... right?)

    yes, it is.
  • divisiontendivisionten
    edited August 2010
    It was also recreated in one of the animated TV episodes. (episode 3, aired with "They Came from Down There")
  • Player_2Player_2
    edited August 2010
    Past Max
    doesn't count to me. I'm not going to like him. He's not the same. I WON't ACCEPT THIS!

    In The Penal Zone, Sam promises to not let anything too deadly happen to Max, and he cheerfully answers that player characters can't die. Ever since then, I was positive that they were going to kill him off just for the hell of it, JUST because he said that.
    But I didn't think they'd really do it...and I was so, so sure that they could just clone him again...

    I refuse to accept
    Past Max,
    AND THAT'S FINAL. Damn you, Telltale! You broke my young maiden heart! :(
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2010
    Player_2 wrote: »
    Past Max
    doesn't count to me. I'm not going to like him. He's not the same. I WON't ACCEPT THIS!

    In The Penal Zone, Sam promises to not let anything too deadly happen to Max, and he cheerfully answers that player characters can't die. Ever since then, I was positive that they were going to kill him off just for the hell of it, JUST because he said that.
    But I didn't think they'd really do it...and I was so, so sure that they could just clone him again...

    I refuse to accept
    Past Max,
    AND THAT'S FINAL. Damn you, Telltale! You broke my young maiden heart! :(

    You'd accept a clone Max made from nothing but his DNA, but you won't accept a Max who has been with Sam his whole life, except for a couple of years when the time stream got screwed up, where both friends realized they had to kill the other to save the world? Bold!
  • CheriCheri
    edited August 2010
    My headcanon is this;
    Sam will tell Past!Max about everything and Past!Max will just accept and if this season's events are mentioned again in passing next season, Past!Max will act as if it was all him. I mean, it's still Max, he'd be incredibly accepting of having psychic powers. I know it's kinda convuluted, but it's my way of dealing with it :C
  • tredlowtredlow
    edited August 2010
    russell19831983 wrote: »
    Its max from 102, in episode 204 sam and max go back in time and meet sam and max from 102 who steal the time machine, so after sam and max from 204 repeat the whole year a while later the duplicate sam and max go off on their own adventures using the time elevator, and thats the duplicate max at the end of 305

    That is perfect, actually. Though does anyone remember exactly what happened to 102 Sam and Max in 204? Were their fates actually explained in 204?
  • GinnyNGinnyN
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    You'd accept a clone Max made from nothing but his DNA, but you won't accept a Max who has been with Sam his whole life, except for a couple of years when the time stream got screwed up, where both friends realized they had to kill the other to save the world? Bold!

    EXACTLY! And my theory goes this time they are going to be more friends than ever because they already know how is lose eachother!

    Also, I'm with Cheri. Max has a short-term memory for something.

    "AH! GIANT TALKING DOG!"
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2010
    tredlow wrote: »
    That is perfect, actually. Though does anyone remember exactly what happened to 102 Sam and Max in 204? Were their fates actually explained in 204?

    The last you see of the Season One versions of Sam & Max, they steal the time machine (which they think is "their" time machine) and escape from the spaceship right before the Season Two Sam & Max can get it. We have no idea from there what their adventures are until a season and a half later when that Max appears alone in the elevator in 305.
  • alldogshipalldogship
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    You'd accept a clone Max made from nothing but his DNA, but you won't accept a Max who has been with Sam his whole life, except for a couple of years when the time stream got screwed up, where both friends realized they had to kill the other to save the world? Bold!

    I was also bummed for this quick status quo fix but I then understood what you did there. It's like an alternate Season 3 that we'll never play.

    Also:
    Will we ever learn how both present and past Sam and Max went to the moon? (other that that big red button in the car theory)

    Also Also:
    They left the time traveling elevator in New York? Now, you'll get a time traveling hobo or rat.
  • tabstistabstis
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    The last you see of the Season One versions of Sam & Max, they steal the time machine (which they think is "their" time machine) and escape from the spaceship right before the Season Two Sam & Max can get it. We have no idea from there what their adventures are until a season and a half later when that Max appears alone in the elevator in 305.

    So... we don't know whether Max's story is true... I think I better call Flint Paper. :cool:
  • ZoninoZonino
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    The last you see of the Season One versions of Sam & Max, they steal the time machine (which they think is "their" time machine) and escape from the spaceship right before the Season Two Sam & Max can get it. We have no idea from there what their adventures are until a season and a half later when that Max appears alone in the elevator in 305.

    Sounds like a possible plot for season 4!
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2010
    Zonino wrote: »
    Sounds like a possible plot for season 4!

    There were definite possible plots for Season Three where alternate timeline Sam & Max were more heavily involved, but it seemed way too convoluted even compared to what the designers did do.
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    There were definite possible plots for Season Three

    Could we someday know them? :) I would love to.
  • queen_of_the_lobstersqueen_of_the_lobsters
    edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    There were definite possible plots for Season Three where alternate timeline Sam & Max were more heavily involved, but it seemed way too convoluted even compared to what the designers did do.

    Was that what your proposed alternate reality game was then?
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    Could we someday know them? :) I would love to.

    We talk very briefly about a couple other ideas on the DVD commentary tracks.
  • queen_of_the_lobstersqueen_of_the_lobsters
    edited August 2010
    Fazz wrote: »
    Well, I read something on the forum that help me moving on! :p
    The Max you played with is not the original Max. The original Max already died in the comics and had been cloned.

    By the way, Telltale Team: how was it possible in the comics and not in the game?

    I figured it was because Sam chose the wrong piece of Max to clone. Mucus doesn't contain DNA (at least, I don't think it does). Sam would have had more luck trying to clone a piece of muscle, bone, or organ it he could find it. Spit, even.
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    But, I was told that
    Max wasn't cloned on the moon, and it was more like healing. Nevertheless, perhaps you're right, but DNA is DNA... I don't see why the mucus should be more difficult to be used to clone Max?
  • pwblainepwblaine
    edited August 2010
    so... what's the other ending, i chose crimefighting
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    ^
    Sam goes with Max on the elevator.
  • ABlackEyedPeaABlackEyedPea
    edited August 2010
    It may not be the exact same Max from the previous episodes, but it's still Max. It's not like he's undergone massive and total redesign as a character. He's still going to act the same, look the same and essentially be the same. You won't notice a difference. I won't.

    I'd be more broken up if Sam died instead.
  • Hassat HunterHassat Hunter
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, I have to agree I felt it was kind of tacked on and a little lame.

    I was expecting Max to return after the end credits... obviously. But the time travelling and Sam's immediate acceptance?

    Maybe it would have gone better with me if Sam wasn't so willing so fast to take this new Max as his new budy (city adventure ending btw, hearing there are 2)...
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited August 2010
    "Tacked on and lame" - the narrative device employed here is called Deus Ex Machina. I'd very much resent it, but I do know that everyone of Purcell's larger Sam&Max comics use exactly the same technique just to ridicule the whole storyline altogether.

    Still, I don't like the ending of season 3. :(
  • FazzFazz
    edited August 2010
    Well there is one thing I did not understand somehow:
    why the awkward silence between Sam and (Past) Max?
  • coolsomecoolsome
    edited August 2010
    Hassat Hunter wrote: »
    Yeah, I have to agree I felt it was kind of tacked on and a little lame.

    I was expecting Max to return after the end credits... obviously. But the time travelling and Sam's immediate acceptance?

    Maybe it would have gone better with me if Sam wasn't so willing so fast to take this new Max as his new budy (city adventure ending btw, hearing there are 2)...

    if you say adventure when talkong about the dark matter in the tumor you go in the machine and then it comes back 4 sam to pick up his hat
  • CrrashCrrash
    edited August 2010
    Sailorcuteness wrote: »
    if you say adventure when talkong about the dark matter in the tumor you go in the machine and then it comes back 4 sam to pick up his hat

    sooo what happens if you choose crime-fighting?
  • ShwooShwoo
    edited August 2010
    Cheri wrote: »
    My headcanon is this;
    Sam will tell Past!Max about everything and Past!Max will just accept and if this season's events are mentioned again in passing next season, Past!Max will act as if it was all him. I mean, it's still Max, he'd be incredibly accepting of having psychic powers. I know it's kinda convuluted, but it's my way of dealing with it :C
    That's what I think too.
  • coolsomecoolsome
    edited August 2010
    wont the alt max have the narrator/super ego in his head trying to kill him?
  • SunnyGuySunnyGuy
    edited August 2010
    How would he though?
  • DrRocketGeniusDrRocketGenius
    edited August 2010
    Hassat Hunter wrote: »
    Maybe it would have gone better with me if Sam wasn't so willing so fast to take this new Max as his new budy

    Max is dead. I think at that point Sam would take Peepers dressed as Max, but Alt. Max was perfect.
  • JasonDKJasonDK
    edited August 2010
    Corvin25 wrote: »
    The ending bummed me out. Oh. MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW. DO NOT HIGHLIGHT UNLESS YOU HAVE BEATEN THE GAME... OR JUST DON'T CARE.
    I was bummed out. Not just because "real" max supposedly was vaporized. But because "new max" replacing him felt kinda tacked on. I don't know about you guys. But any seasons after Season 3, I won't be able to look at Max without thinking "That's not the real Max!!" Not to mention Sam so readily accepting this other Max as his new bestest little buddy.

    If there's another season, and it perhaps deals with time travel or alternate universes... maybe this could be fixed. What if, in an alternate universe, Sam never got his buddy back, and obsessed over bringing him back for the rest of his life? What if, an elderly Sam used a time machine to bring young Sam a machine that would bring back his ORIGINAL little buddy? Now that would be quite a hard choice for Sam to make. Stick with the new Max, or bring back the Max he's known his whole life? Would make for an interesting episode, or even season.

    What if the GHOST of Original Max somehow got merged with the soul of New Max? What if the entire multiverse was threatened by some unknown force, and all the Sams/Maxes from each parallel universe had to step in and save the last surviving plane of existence... OURS? What if all of their different incarnations' memories, thoughts, and spirits ended up merging with our heroes? There's so many ways this could be fixed, Telltale. I just hope it GETS fixed.

    Overall it was a great season. But the ending kinda ruined it for me. I'm just too attached to the characters. This is like when your childhood dog gets run over... Except your parents get you a new puppy, when the old one isn't even buried or COLD yet.

    Bad ending, Telltale. Bad. No after-season cake for you.

    P.S.: Positive note: Great job on working the season title into the dialogue. Seriously. I never would have guessed that would be the theme of the series.


    (SPOILERS)
    If you watch the end of the episode, Max X (the one from 102) said that Sam X turned into a monster and Max X blew him up, and left in the Time Elevator to find present Sam, who, coincedentaly, lost HIS Max, therefore fixing a paradox that should've happened after past Sam & Max left their present time period. So, despite the zaniness of it, the main reason was to show Max wasn't just a pyschopath who wants to eat his friend & seek chaos. He is kind-hearted and will sacrifice his life to save Sam & all his friends.
  • JasonDKJasonDK
    edited August 2010
    Crrash wrote: »
    sooo what happens if you choose crime-fighting?

    Sam Prime & Max X will walk off into the sunset, commenting on a Banker & a Rat Queen.
  • JasonDKJasonDK
    edited August 2010
    Hassat Hunter wrote: »
    Yeah, I have to agree I felt it was kind of tacked on and a little lame.

    I was expecting Max to return after the end credits... obviously. But the time travelling and Sam's immediate acceptance?

    Maybe it would have gone better with me if Sam wasn't so willing so fast to take this new Max as his new budy (city adventure ending btw, hearing there are 2)...

    If I lost my friend, & a time duplicate of him came back with a Elevator that fucks with time, I wouldn't hesitate. Besides time-traveling, there's no other way to save Max. Even then, Sam will have to fall on Junior & become the Prime equivelent of Sam X.
  • Hassat HunterHassat Hunter
    edited August 2010
    Vainamoinen wrote: »
    "Tacked on and lame" - the narrative device employed here is called Deus Ex Machina.
    Not all Deus Ex Machina's have to feel like this though.
    For example it's great in the animated serie "Max Greatest Day" (where there are even 2 in rapid succession).

    It just... doesn't click here.
    I've gone in greater detail as to why I think why in the sticky 305 thread.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.