No, that's just a convenient explanation so that someone didn't see that timeline's Marty vanish. It's the same with 1985A's Marty being in Switzerland.
This don't have any sense. In the 1985A, in the films, the original Doc and original Einstein doesn't fade away when they enter in that timeline.
There's certain rules that the films explain but in this game change. I don't know why but they can't change the "fade away" mechanics of alternative timelines when we all see it in the movies.
EDIT: Besides it doesn't have any sense that alternative Marty or alternative Doc or alternative Einstein will fade away neither. They are in their own timeline. Considering the movies the only logical explanation it's that all characters coexist each other.
Anyway, in the movies and the game happens the same thing but the "fade away" mechanics are different. Why?
The original Doc and Einstein didn't fade away because they were still their natural ages at that point. In the game, Doc and Einstein fade away because they are past their natural ages at that point in time. Because Doc, and by extension Einstein, had been time traveling, and presuming that Einstein got the same life extension treatments that Doc did, they're older than what they would've lived by had they not gotten said therapy. The reason Doc fades away isn't because of Citizen Brown, but because he should, technically speaking, no longer be alive. In this case, he is the abnormality, so you COULD say that the timeline pushes him out of existence since he no longer belongs. The same holds true for Einstein who is way older than a dog normally lives. I doubt he was a puppy in the first movies, and add at least 10 years to what his age would've been...he's pretty spry for a dog that old. This is the most reasonable explanation. Basically, because a Doc of that biological age should technically no longer exist in that timeline, the Emmett Brown with the "correct" biological age, and therefore native to that time, "pushes" the other Doc out of existence rather than vice verse. Now, this only holds true because of time travel. Now, the time machine itself still exists because the inspiration for it is still locked within Emmett Brown's mind. It was only interpreted differently because of his relationship with Edna and their subsequent obsession with law. The DeLorean itself would still exist because the cars are still made(hence why it's recognized as such), but most of the modifications are breaking down. Hence why the time circuits and flux capacitor went down. As for the hover conversion and Mr. Fusion still working, as long as the potential for those technologies still exists, then those CAN still exist. That's why they, and the time circuits and flux capacitor, haven't faded. The same way that Marty was able to ensure his eventual conception, he and Emmett can invent time travel again. Thirty-one years late, but the potential was still there. Now, if Marty stayed in 1986FCB for too long, or the DeLorean was annhilated or damaged beyond hope of repair, then likely the flux capacitor and other modifications would've vanished as well. Again, we're going back to the timeline somehow allowing them time to correct their own mistakes.
The old/young Doc theory doesn't convince me at all to explain the fading away for Doc and Einstein from the car. It's wrong.
Remember from the first movie, to the end. Marty has come to an alternative timeline where his father is a sci-fi novels writer. Marty goes to Lone Pines Mall and he encounters himself in the parking, racing with the Lybians.
Because that I say the alternative and original versions can coexist in a timeline. We could see it in the movies.
The old/young Doc theory doesn't convince me at all to explain the fading away for Doc and Einstein from the car. It's wrong.
Remember from the first movie, to the end. Marty has come to an alternative timeline where his father is a sci-fi novels writer. Marty goes to Lone Pines Mall and he encounters himself in the parking, racing with the Lybians.
Because that I say the alternative and original versions can coexist in a timeline. We could see it in the movies.
It has NOTHING to do with that. In the First Citizen Brown timeline, Doc never got the life enhancement treatments in 2015. Without those treatments, Doc wouldn't have lived as long as he had. Since he didn't even the time machine in 1985, the potential for him to get those treatments had passed by the time the DeLorean appeared in 1986. Basically, what happened to Doc is no different than if Marty had failed to get his parents together on November 12, 1955. Basically speaking, Doc traveled past the point of a slow fade out to the point where he faded out of existence. Doc passed the point where he would've been able to fix his own existence, whereas Marty was not in danger.
The old/young Doc theory doesn't convince me at all to explain the fading away for Doc and Einstein from the car. It's wrong.
Remember from the first movie, to the end. Marty has come to an alternative timeline where his father is a sci-fi novels writer. Marty goes to Lone Pines Mall and he encounters himself in the parking, racing with the Lybians.
Because that I say the alternative and original versions can coexist in a timeline. We could see it in the movies.
It's not a matter of coexisting:
Suppose Emmett Brown (either FCB or Doc) would naturally die at the age of 80 (according to the game, he's 72 in 1985); now Doc -our version of Emmett Brown- invented time travel and got some procedures in the Future (natural overhaul) that allowed him to live beyond that threshold. Every timeline Doc traveled to was to a timeline where Doc had invented the flux capacitor and made those actions.
Now, Edna comes into the picture: Because of Edna, Emmett uses Science for practical goals, making him not invent time travel and not going to the Future, becoming FCB -another version of Emmett Brown- in 1986.
FCB and Doc are the same person, but not the same age, as Doc has stayed living in another time period raising his teenage sons with Clara, aging beyond his natural life (beyond 80, above the threshold) thanks to the overhaul, and FCB didn't invent the time machine, aging with the natural flow of time (73, below the threshold), like everyone else.
As Marty reaches 88 MPH in 1931, Doc enters a timeline where he didn't get the overhaul because he didn't invent time travel. Due to him not living to his current age (beyond 80) in that particular timeline, he dissapears by Ripple Effect.
Now, we really don't know the real age at which Emmett Brown would naturally die, but we can be certain that that age is between FCB's age -73- and Doc's age -almost 100-.
If Emmett Brown was supposed to naturally die at 100, we'd have both Doc (who would have arrived with Marty) and FCB (native) in 1986B, just like we had two Docs and two Martys in Biff-horrific 1985A.
not sure if someone covered this but shouldnt doc brown be gone from the 1931 photo in episode 3 as he no longers exists.
I think it's because the current events needed Carl Sagan as the alleged arsonist. Sort of the timeline trying to protect certain things. At least, that's my best guess after Episode 4.
1931: Marty tells Edna that Emmet stole plutonium from Libyans. Edna seems to understand the question and said that Emmet probably had his reasons.
1934: Italian North Africa became known as Libya.
1934: Plutonium is discovered.
1931: Marty tells Edna that Emmet stole plutonium from Libyans. Edna seems to understand the question and said that Emmet probably had his reasons.
1934: Italian North Africa became known as Libya.
1934: Plutonium is discovered.
Actually, I'm not sure she actually DID understand the question. Otherwise, she might have known what Libyans would want with plutonium.
not sure if someone covered this but shouldnt doc brown be gone from the 1931 photo in episode 3 as he no longers exists.
this is something that is contradicted; 'Eastwood ravine' is once again named 'clayton ravine' implying the trip to 1885 no longer happens but old doc being in that photo and the fact that edna still recognizes "Carl Sagan" implies the original trips to 1931 DID happen?
Perhaps that time travel is still in place because it occurred in a DeLorean that was a temporal duplicate of the original. It this case, the DeLorean was not dependent on a time travel event to 1885.
not sure if someone covered this but shouldnt doc brown be gone from the 1931 photo in episode 3 as he no longers exists.
Think of the deleted scene from BTTF Part II where Old Biff fades from existence upon his return to 2015.
Old Biff faded from existence, yet later in the movie when they went back to 1955, Old Biff was alive and well strolling around giving a book to himself.
One can therefore imply that while Carl Sagen does not exist in 1986, if one were to travel back to August 25th 1931, he would still exist there.
While one could argue that the scene did not happen because it was deleted, the deleted scene from Part 3 was referenced in Episode 1.
this is something that is contradicted; 'Eastwood ravine' is once again named 'clayton ravine' implying the trip to 1885 no longer happens but old doc being in that photo and the fact that edna still recognizes "Carl Sagan" implies the original trips to 1931 DID happen?
Yes, first plothole of the series, i think. I registered to find out if there was an official explanation for this.
According to the rules of the movies, by episode 4, Eastwood Ravine is still Eastwood Ravine. And Clara/Jules/Verne still exist in their home time.
If they were in 188X/189X, they are still there, and if they were in a version of 1991+ (as in the animated series), they are still there too, since they are outside their timezone and therefore imune to the ripple effect (Like Marty/Doc/Jennifer who did 2015>2015A, or marty who switched from a 1955 timeline to the other at the end of BTTF2).
Yes, first plothole of the series, i think. I registered to find out if there was an official explanation for this.
According to the rules of the movies, by episode 4, Eastwood Ravine is still Eastwood Ravine. And Clara/Jules/Verne still exist in their home time.
If they were in 188X/189X, they are still there, and if they were in a version of 1991+ (as in the animated series), they are still there too, since they are outside their timezone and therefore imune to the ripple effect (Like Marty/Doc/Jennifer who did 2015>2015A, or marty who switched from a 1955 timeline to the other at the end of BTTF2).
Here's my GUESS as to why the 1931 time travel event appears to be in place: The DeLorean is a temporal duplicate. This DeLorean never went to 1885. Since it didn't go to 1885 but DID go to 1931, the time travels to 1931 were still in place, so Carl Sagan would still have "existed" while the time travels to 1885 are erased. Also, I think the reason the flux capacitor and time circuits remained intact...errr, well, more or less...is also due to it being a temporal duplicate. Doc still would've had to repair the time machine in 2025, so the components would remain intact.
IMO, it can't work that way, it's perfectly normal that the 1931 time travel events are still there.
In back to the future 2, in the biff tannen timeline, there was still an old biff and a 1985 marty in 1955. That's the exact same thing. The event never get erased in the past, the ripple effect goes only toward the future.
Short answer: Talk to Doc while he's in jail in Episode 1.
Long answer: According to Doc, the gigawatt overload that shorted out the time circuits, destroyed the flying circuits, and activated the flux capacitor which sent the DeLorean back to 1885 also sent a duplicate of the DeLorean 70 years forward to the year 2025. This was probably caused by the fact that, unlike the lightning strike that sent the DeLorean to 1985 at the end of BttF, the lightning wasn't channeled through cable and a pole and hook which would have absorbed some of the power going to the flux capacitor. The DeLorean took the full charge, and since 1.21 gigawatts is all that's needed, it's a safe bet with BttF physics that the charge was more than enough to over-"flux" the time machine. On a trip to 2025, Doc learned of the existence of the duplicate time machine, probably traveled back to when it arrived, and prevented it from falling into the hands of Griff Tannen. It is then presumed that Doc repaired the time circuits and had the flying circuits replaced while in 2025 and then began using it as well as the Jules Verne time train. It's currently unknown if the duplication affected Doc as well. Logically speaking, it should have, but logic doesn't always apply to time travel.
Seeing I just played through episodes 1-4 and went through this threat, I kinda have to ask. Was this part of the dialog in episode 1 or one of the other episodes? I dont remember this, is it something I missed completely?
Seeing I just played through episodes 1-4 and went through this threat, I kinda have to ask. Was this part of the dialog in episode 1 or one of the other episodes? I dont remember this, is it something I missed completely?
It's one of the optional dialog trees if you continue to talk to Doc while he's in jail. It starts off "Where were you?" then "How is the family?" then "Where'd the DeLorean come from?"
It's one of the optional dialog trees if you continue to talk to Doc while he's in jail. It starts off "Where were you?" then "How is the family?" then "Where'd the DeLorean come from?"
Ahh cool I might go back replay that part just to see it to be honest. I think rushed through part 1 one when I randomly lost my save data, almost towards the end.
Agreed. But there's just one small problem with that. The fact that other selves shouldn't interact...though I don't see the problem in Marty's case since he already knows about time travel...
Actually the thing that always bugged me about the whole future selves thing is that they SHOULDN'T BE THERE if you go forward in time. Unless all of time exists simultaneously, then when you go forward into the future, what should happen is that you go to a future that is most probable FROM EVENTS AS THEY OCCUR RIGHT AS YOU LEAVE. This is how I explain why the future we see in 2015 in BTTF II is so different from what our actual 2015 is likely to be like.
But this also means that as far as history is concerned, the people who went forward just...disappeared, until they reappeared in the future. In other words, it should be impossible for you to go forward and meet a future self. The only way for you to meet a future self is for said future self to come BACK in time to meet you.
This is why as I grew older I found the time travel in, say, Chrono Trigger to be a lot more consistent with sense(at least as reasoned out by the fans at the Chrono Compendium.) With the exception of an event that occurs in the beginning of the game that more or less goes by completely different rules, the entirety of time travel in the game remains highly consistent with itself, much more so than Back to the Future.
Actually more than once I've considered doing some fan fiction where I essentially rewrite the stories of the movies to be consistent with set rules of time travel while at the same time allowing the important stuff, from Marty's family changing to Doc marrying Clara and having Jules and Verne be preserved. That's a lot harder than you might think.
My theory as to why the future seen in BTTF2 is so different from the future of "our" world is because Doc doesn't exist in "our" world. While I don't quite believe that Doc single-handed invented everything we see in 2015 - I think he did invent something that got the ball rolling, so to speak.
Actually the thing that always bugged me about the whole future selves thing is that they SHOULDN'T BE THERE if you go forward in time. Unless all of time exists simultaneously, then when you go forward into the future, what should happen is that you go to a future that is most probable FROM EVENTS AS THEY OCCUR RIGHT AS YOU LEAVE. This is how I explain why the future we see in 2015 in BTTF II is so different from what our actual 2015 is likely to be like.
But this also means that as far as history is concerned, the people who went forward just...disappeared, until they reappeared in the future. In other words, it should be impossible for you to go forward and meet a future self. The only way for you to meet a future self is for said future self to come BACK in time to meet you.
This is why as I grew older I found the time travel in, say, Chrono Trigger to be a lot more consistent with sense(at least as reasoned out by the fans at the Chrono Compendium.) With the exception of an event that occurs in the beginning of the game that more or less goes by completely different rules, the entirety of time travel in the game remains highly consistent with itself, much more so than Back to the Future.
Actually more than once I've considered doing some fan fiction where I essentially rewrite the stories of the movies to be consistent with set rules of time travel while at the same time allowing the important stuff, from Marty's family changing to Doc marrying Clara and having Jules and Verne be preserved. That's a lot harder than you might think.
My theory as to why the future seen in BTTF2 is so different from the future of "our" world is because Doc doesn't exist in "our" world. While I don't quite believe that Doc single-handed invented everything we see in 2015 - I think he did invent something that got the ball rolling, so to speak.
The future is the most likely scenario at the point you left; doc had every intention of returning marty and jennifer to 1985 hence why they exist in 2015 and doc likely eventually plans on returning himself to 1985 so the future would include the remainder of his life (assuming he does die before 2015)
Actually the thing that always bugged me about the whole future selves thing is that they SHOULDN'T BE THERE if you go forward in time. Unless all of time exists simultaneously, then when you go forward into the future, what should happen is that you go to a future that is most probable FROM EVENTS AS THEY OCCUR RIGHT AS YOU LEAVE. This is how I explain why the future we see in 2015 in BTTF II is so different from what our actual 2015 is likely to be like.
But if it were like that things could get truly confusing. Imagine this sequence of events:
1) You time travel into the future. There is no future version of you there because you vanished when you time travelled.
2) You spend some time there.
3) You travel back to the present.
Now, after doing that, there will be a future version of you at the time to which you originally travelled as you are now back in the present and will age to become your future self. This will mean that when you originally time travelled there was only one of you in the future, but after returning there will be two (at least for the period of time that you remained in the future). Quite a paradox there, especially if your future self does something to prevent the you from returning to the past. I'd better stop now, I'm confusing myself .
But if it were like that things could get truly confusing. Imagine this sequence of events:
1) You time travel into the future. There is no future version of you there because you vanished when you time travelled.
2) You spend some time there.
3) You travel back to the present.
Now, after doing that, there will be a future version of you at the time to which you originally travelled as you are now back in the present and will age to become your future self. This will mean that when you originally time travelled there was only one of you in the future, but after returning there will be two (at least for the period of time that you remained in the future). Quite a paradox there, especially if your future self does something to prevent the you from returning to the past. I'd better stop now, I'm confusing myself .
Well, you're right and you're not. Yes there's a you in the future, but it's actually a past version of you, thus the present version of you, if for some reason you decided to revisit those events, would still be seeing a past version of yourself.
To try to explain this more clearly, picture the first you that went to the future as You A. You A spends some time around in the future then heads back to what You A considers the present. Sometime later from that present date, You B, a future version of You A, decides to go to the future and witness those events for some reason or other. You B would be older than You A, even if it's just by a few hours or days, and thus would be the most present version.
Thus, if You A were to come into contact with You B, You A would only be meeting his future self by virtue of You B being more present than You A.
I think, if you stay in the future for over 24 hours, then your older selves fade away. The one major problem I have with the common theory is this: if this is the future of the timeline where Doc, Marty, and Jenner went to visit 2015 - then why are the McFly family still losers? Also, it doesn't take into account Biff getting his hands on the DeLorean.
If you get back before you left, then you get to see yourself leave. Just like at the end of the first movie. There won't be 2 of you for long unless the original you decides not to go, and then you vanish because you never left.
The 'future self eventally disappears' thing is how I always figured it. You can never see the effects of your time travels until you actually travel through time and cause those effects. Which means that if you travel forward through time, you're altering history by adding one time travel movement to it, and all the effects it causes. And only one movement - until you go back, you never came back. Which means that you can do whatever you like with your future self because if you stay too long, he'll fade away until you go back, and if you go back past that point, or even if you go back too soon for that to happen, he'll be overwritten with a version of you who had that encounter from your point of view. An encounter that technically never happened. So 1986 Marty can chat with 2011 Marty all he likes. He just has to make sure that nothing happens to his own self.
Of course, we know the out-of-universe explanation for why the Bobs still decided to have Marty and Jennifer's older selves (as well as their children) in the future. It's so that the viewer wouldn't be let down.
I think what really complicates things, though, is Biff's reaction to seeing the flying DeLorean in 2015. I don't think he really needed to see the DeLorean to suspect that something was going on. Seeing two Marty Jr's should've been enough. Then he would hide in that outside room , as he did in the movie - and still be able to deduce from the conversation between Marty and Doc and they had a time machine.
I think, if you stay in the future for over 24 hours, then your older selves fade away. The one major problem I have with the common theory is this: if this is the future of the timeline where Doc, Marty, and Jenner went to visit 2015 - then why are the McFly family still losers? Also, it doesn't take into account Biff getting his hands on the DeLorean.
It depends what the intentions are and the most likely scenario of the timeline.
Doc had every intention of returning marty and jennifer to 1985 and this was never threatened hence why their future selves stay in tact. If something threatened that (lets say doc got in an accident with the delorean and died, marty and jennifer would be stranded in 2015), then the future selves disappear. Or lets say in the case of einstein, doc essentially intends to have him live in the future (albeit one minute), there is no future self for him. Same with Jennifer who is still in the future in 1985 (she spends 3 hours in the future and returns to the present 9-10 hours after left), there is not a second version of her there.
The timeline does not expect time travel so travelling into the future gives you the most likely future WITHOUT any time travel. The time line is linear to anyone who doesn't time travel but for those who do, their time line looks more like a pretzel or a snake. So for instance for marty and doc, 1885 is the future of 2015 for them (as they go to 2015 first). It has to work this way because doc and marty going to 2015, 1955, biff going to 1955, and marty going to 1885 were done with the direct intention of changing the timeline so these travels would not happen if the timeline were the way they wanted (ie. doc not fiding martys kids in jail, biff not needing to steal the delorean if he were already rich, marty and doc not going back to 1955 if biff wasnt rich, and marty not going back to 1885 if he didnt find emmets tombstomb)
I think, if you stay in the future for over 24 hours, then your older selves fade away. The one major problem I have with the common theory is this: if this is the future of the timeline where Doc, Marty, and Jenner went to visit 2015 - then why are the McFly family still losers? Also, it doesn't take into account Biff getting his hands on the DeLorean.
Martys family are "losers" because of Car crash With needles in 1985....Marty never got to pursue his Rock n roll career because he damaged his hand.(and most like sunk into a deep depression) and ended up having to work a dead end job. his parents were still doing fine "george threw his back out playing golf again" Only rich older folks play golf.
About the delorean when biff steals it. THIS IS THE ONLY PARADOX I SEE.
Remember when doc explains on the chalkboard how they can't go back to the future from Alertnate 1985 to stop biff from stealing the time machine because it would be and alternate 2015.....Well when old biff brought the book back to 1955 Technially the was The Begining of the Alternate "BAD" timeline......So old biff coming back to 2015 should of ended up in Alernate 2015 .
An ANswer:
I heard tho that the future was "changing around them" while Marty and doc were carrying jennifer back to the delorian. thats why biff erases in the deleted scenes and snice we only see a street corner and hilldale is already a bad area we don't see the change in the movie.....
Martys family are "losers" because of Car crash With needles in 1985....Marty never got to pursue his Rock n roll career because he damaged his hand.(and most like sunk into a deep depression) and ended up having to work a dead end job. his parents were still doing fine "george threw his back out playing golf again" Only rich older folks play golf.
About the delorean when biff steals it. THIS IS THE ONLY PARADOX I SEE.
Remember when doc explains on the chalkboard how they can't go back to the future from Alertnate 1985 to stop biff from stealing the time machine because it would be and alternate 2015.....Well when old biff brought the book back to 1955 Technially the was The Begining of the Alternate "BAD" timeline......So old biff coming back to 2015 should of ended up in Alernate 2015 .
An ANswer:
I heard tho that the future was "changing around them" while Marty and doc were carrying jennifer back to the delorian. thats why biff erases in the deleted scenes and snice we only see a street corner and hilldale is already a bad area we don't see the change in the movie.....
there is no evidence that it isn't an alternate 2015 and if you include the deleted scene, it IS an alternate 2015.
Martys family are "losers" because of Car crash With needles in 1985....Marty never got to pursue his Rock n roll career because he damaged his hand.(and most like sunk into a deep depression) and ended up having to work a dead end job. his parents were still doing fine "george threw his back out playing golf again" Only rich older folks play golf.
The point I was making is that, if this is the timeline where Marty and Jennifer took a trip to 2015 when they were younger - then why are the McFlys still losers. The operative word here is "still". Surely, they would have learned something. I was commenting specifically on why I have a problem with the theory of it being the timeline where young Marty and Jennifer went to 2015.
About the delorean when biff steals it. THIS IS THE ONLY PARADOX I SEE.
Remember when doc explains on the chalkboard how they can't go back to the future from Alertnate 1985 to stop biff from stealing the time machine because it would be and alternate 2015.....Well when old biff brought the book back to 1955 Technially the was The Begining of the Alternate "BAD" timeline......So old biff coming back to 2015 should of ended up in Alernate 2015 .
An ANswer:
I heard tho that the future was "changing around them" while Marty and doc were carrying jennifer back to the delorian. thats why biff erases in the deleted scenes and snice we only see a street corner and hilldale is already a bad area we don't see the change in the movie.....
You should watch Part II's deleted scenes. In the full version of the scene in which Old Biff suffers a heart attack after returning, we see why - he's fading out!According to the Bobs, in the timeline he created, he didn't live as long. It may be that the reason he returned to the 2015 of the good timeline was because he had no place in the bad one. In Episode 3 of the game, the same thing happened to Doc. However, Marty DID have a place in the new timeline, so he ended up there and Doc instantly vanished in a puff of already-having-died.
That's not entirely true. Doc only vanished because that version of Doc had no place in the timeline. I don't see why telltale had him erased though, I guess they didn't want to deal with the odd "plot maneuver" of having 2 doc's avoiding each other.
The point I was making is that, if this is the timeline where Marty and Jennifer took a trip to 2015 when they were younger - then why are the McFlys still losers. The operative word here is "still". Surely, they would have learned something. I was commenting specifically on why I have a problem with the theory of it being the timeline where young Marty and Jennifer went to 2015.
It was like that because Marty, upon leaving 1985, still had trouble being called chicken. That's what instigated the accident.
Comments
This don't have any sense. In the 1985A, in the films, the original Doc and original Einstein doesn't fade away when they enter in that timeline.
There's certain rules that the films explain but in this game change. I don't know why but they can't change the "fade away" mechanics of alternative timelines when we all see it in the movies.
EDIT: Besides it doesn't have any sense that alternative Marty or alternative Doc or alternative Einstein will fade away neither. They are in their own timeline. Considering the movies the only logical explanation it's that all characters coexist each other.
Anyway, in the movies and the game happens the same thing but the "fade away" mechanics are different. Why?
Remember from the first movie, to the end. Marty has come to an alternative timeline where his father is a sci-fi novels writer. Marty goes to Lone Pines Mall and he encounters himself in the parking, racing with the Lybians.
Because that I say the alternative and original versions can coexist in a timeline. We could see it in the movies.
It has NOTHING to do with that. In the First Citizen Brown timeline, Doc never got the life enhancement treatments in 2015. Without those treatments, Doc wouldn't have lived as long as he had. Since he didn't even the time machine in 1985, the potential for him to get those treatments had passed by the time the DeLorean appeared in 1986. Basically, what happened to Doc is no different than if Marty had failed to get his parents together on November 12, 1955. Basically speaking, Doc traveled past the point of a slow fade out to the point where he faded out of existence. Doc passed the point where he would've been able to fix his own existence, whereas Marty was not in danger.
It's not a matter of coexisting:
Suppose Emmett Brown (either FCB or Doc) would naturally die at the age of 80 (according to the game, he's 72 in 1985); now Doc -our version of Emmett Brown- invented time travel and got some procedures in the Future (natural overhaul) that allowed him to live beyond that threshold. Every timeline Doc traveled to was to a timeline where Doc had invented the flux capacitor and made those actions.
Now, Edna comes into the picture: Because of Edna, Emmett uses Science for practical goals, making him not invent time travel and not going to the Future, becoming FCB -another version of Emmett Brown- in 1986.
FCB and Doc are the same person, but not the same age, as Doc has stayed living in another time period raising his teenage sons with Clara, aging beyond his natural life (beyond 80, above the threshold) thanks to the overhaul, and FCB didn't invent the time machine, aging with the natural flow of time (73, below the threshold), like everyone else.
As Marty reaches 88 MPH in 1931, Doc enters a timeline where he didn't get the overhaul because he didn't invent time travel. Due to him not living to his current age (beyond 80) in that particular timeline, he dissapears by Ripple Effect.
Now, we really don't know the real age at which Emmett Brown would naturally die, but we can be certain that that age is between FCB's age -73- and Doc's age -almost 100-.
If Emmett Brown was supposed to naturally die at 100, we'd have both Doc (who would have arrived with Marty) and FCB (native) in 1986B, just like we had two Docs and two Martys in Biff-horrific 1985A.
Same case with Einstein.
Cue Ball is labeled "Cue Ball" in Episodes 1-2, but he's labeled "Cueball" in Episode 4.
I think it's because the current events needed Carl Sagan as the alleged arsonist. Sort of the timeline trying to protect certain things. At least, that's my best guess after Episode 4.
1934: Italian North Africa became known as Libya.
1934: Plutonium is discovered.
Actually, I'm not sure she actually DID understand the question. Otherwise, she might have known what Libyans would want with plutonium.
this is something that is contradicted; 'Eastwood ravine' is once again named 'clayton ravine' implying the trip to 1885 no longer happens but old doc being in that photo and the fact that edna still recognizes "Carl Sagan" implies the original trips to 1931 DID happen?
Think of the deleted scene from BTTF Part II where Old Biff fades from existence upon his return to 2015.
Old Biff faded from existence, yet later in the movie when they went back to 1955, Old Biff was alive and well strolling around giving a book to himself.
One can therefore imply that while Carl Sagen does not exist in 1986, if one were to travel back to August 25th 1931, he would still exist there.
While one could argue that the scene did not happen because it was deleted, the deleted scene from Part 3 was referenced in Episode 1.
The number of frets and the position of the inlays on Marty's guitar... that's almost insulting.
Yes, first plothole of the series, i think. I registered to find out if there was an official explanation for this.
According to the rules of the movies, by episode 4, Eastwood Ravine is still Eastwood Ravine. And Clara/Jules/Verne still exist in their home time.
If they were in 188X/189X, they are still there, and if they were in a version of 1991+ (as in the animated series), they are still there too, since they are outside their timezone and therefore imune to the ripple effect (Like Marty/Doc/Jennifer who did 2015>2015A, or marty who switched from a 1955 timeline to the other at the end of BTTF2).
Here's my GUESS as to why the 1931 time travel event appears to be in place: The DeLorean is a temporal duplicate. This DeLorean never went to 1885. Since it didn't go to 1885 but DID go to 1931, the time travels to 1931 were still in place, so Carl Sagan would still have "existed" while the time travels to 1885 are erased. Also, I think the reason the flux capacitor and time circuits remained intact...errr, well, more or less...is also due to it being a temporal duplicate. Doc still would've had to repair the time machine in 2025, so the components would remain intact.
In back to the future 2, in the biff tannen timeline, there was still an old biff and a 1985 marty in 1955. That's the exact same thing. The event never get erased in the past, the ripple effect goes only toward the future.
Seeing I just played through episodes 1-4 and went through this threat, I kinda have to ask. Was this part of the dialog in episode 1 or one of the other episodes? I dont remember this, is it something I missed completely?
It's one of the optional dialog trees if you continue to talk to Doc while he's in jail. It starts off "Where were you?" then "How is the family?" then "Where'd the DeLorean come from?"
Ahh cool I might go back replay that part just to see it to be honest. I think rushed through part 1 one when I randomly lost my save data, almost towards the end.
But this also means that as far as history is concerned, the people who went forward just...disappeared, until they reappeared in the future. In other words, it should be impossible for you to go forward and meet a future self. The only way for you to meet a future self is for said future self to come BACK in time to meet you.
This is why as I grew older I found the time travel in, say, Chrono Trigger to be a lot more consistent with sense(at least as reasoned out by the fans at the Chrono Compendium.) With the exception of an event that occurs in the beginning of the game that more or less goes by completely different rules, the entirety of time travel in the game remains highly consistent with itself, much more so than Back to the Future.
Actually more than once I've considered doing some fan fiction where I essentially rewrite the stories of the movies to be consistent with set rules of time travel while at the same time allowing the important stuff, from Marty's family changing to Doc marrying Clara and having Jules and Verne be preserved. That's a lot harder than you might think.
The future is the most likely scenario at the point you left; doc had every intention of returning marty and jennifer to 1985 hence why they exist in 2015 and doc likely eventually plans on returning himself to 1985 so the future would include the remainder of his life (assuming he does die before 2015)
But if it were like that things could get truly confusing. Imagine this sequence of events:
1) You time travel into the future. There is no future version of you there because you vanished when you time travelled.
2) You spend some time there.
3) You travel back to the present.
Now, after doing that, there will be a future version of you at the time to which you originally travelled as you are now back in the present and will age to become your future self. This will mean that when you originally time travelled there was only one of you in the future, but after returning there will be two (at least for the period of time that you remained in the future). Quite a paradox there, especially if your future self does something to prevent the you from returning to the past. I'd better stop now, I'm confusing myself
To try to explain this more clearly, picture the first you that went to the future as You A. You A spends some time around in the future then heads back to what You A considers the present. Sometime later from that present date, You B, a future version of You A, decides to go to the future and witness those events for some reason or other. You B would be older than You A, even if it's just by a few hours or days, and thus would be the most present version.
Thus, if You A were to come into contact with You B, You A would only be meeting his future self by virtue of You B being more present than You A.
...
That probably didn't make it any clearer, did it?
I think what really complicates things, though, is Biff's reaction to seeing the flying DeLorean in 2015. I don't think he really needed to see the DeLorean to suspect that something was going on. Seeing two Marty Jr's should've been enough. Then he would hide in that outside room , as he did in the movie - and still be able to deduce from the conversation between Marty and Doc and they had a time machine.
It depends what the intentions are and the most likely scenario of the timeline.
Doc had every intention of returning marty and jennifer to 1985 and this was never threatened hence why their future selves stay in tact. If something threatened that (lets say doc got in an accident with the delorean and died, marty and jennifer would be stranded in 2015), then the future selves disappear. Or lets say in the case of einstein, doc essentially intends to have him live in the future (albeit one minute), there is no future self for him. Same with Jennifer who is still in the future in 1985 (she spends 3 hours in the future and returns to the present 9-10 hours after left), there is not a second version of her there.
The timeline does not expect time travel so travelling into the future gives you the most likely future WITHOUT any time travel. The time line is linear to anyone who doesn't time travel but for those who do, their time line looks more like a pretzel or a snake. So for instance for marty and doc, 1885 is the future of 2015 for them (as they go to 2015 first). It has to work this way because doc and marty going to 2015, 1955, biff going to 1955, and marty going to 1885 were done with the direct intention of changing the timeline so these travels would not happen if the timeline were the way they wanted (ie. doc not fiding martys kids in jail, biff not needing to steal the delorean if he were already rich, marty and doc not going back to 1955 if biff wasnt rich, and marty not going back to 1885 if he didnt find emmets tombstomb)
Martys family are "losers" because of Car crash With needles in 1985....Marty never got to pursue his Rock n roll career because he damaged his hand.(and most like sunk into a deep depression) and ended up having to work a dead end job. his parents were still doing fine "george threw his back out playing golf again" Only rich older folks play golf.
About the delorean when biff steals it. THIS IS THE ONLY PARADOX I SEE.
Remember when doc explains on the chalkboard how they can't go back to the future from Alertnate 1985 to stop biff from stealing the time machine because it would be and alternate 2015.....Well when old biff brought the book back to 1955 Technially the was The Begining of the Alternate "BAD" timeline......So old biff coming back to 2015 should of ended up in Alernate 2015 .
An ANswer:
I heard tho that the future was "changing around them" while Marty and doc were carrying jennifer back to the delorian. thats why biff erases in the deleted scenes and snice we only see a street corner and hilldale is already a bad area we don't see the change in the movie.....
there is no evidence that it isn't an alternate 2015 and if you include the deleted scene, it IS an alternate 2015.
The point I was making is that, if this is the timeline where Marty and Jennifer took a trip to 2015 when they were younger - then why are the McFlys still losers. The operative word here is "still". Surely, they would have learned something. I was commenting specifically on why I have a problem with the theory of it being the timeline where young Marty and Jennifer went to 2015.
You should watch Part II's deleted scenes. In the full version of the scene in which Old Biff suffers a heart attack after returning, we see why - he's fading out!According to the Bobs, in the timeline he created, he didn't live as long. It may be that the reason he returned to the 2015 of the good timeline was because he had no place in the bad one. In Episode 3 of the game, the same thing happened to Doc. However, Marty DID have a place in the new timeline, so he ended up there and Doc instantly vanished in a puff of already-having-died.
Citizen Brown = No Time Travel = Regular Life Spawn = Death = Sudden
It was like that because Marty, upon leaving 1985, still had trouble being called chicken. That's what instigated the accident.
This. I`m not sure as to why everyone`s still unclear on the reason behind Doc's vanishing act.