Rather Dashing. You seriously need to be permabanned already.
I take it you're a liberal?
I, for one, wholly support R.D.'s position and frankly, think he's bang-on.
As for the case I've seen being made in support of the game itself, specifically the 'it's not about the puzzles, it's about the characters and the storyline', to those arguing as much, I ask you: Why can't TTG give us both. It seemed like Lucasarts & MI franchise seemed to do a better job on both counts; why cannot we not expect a game that takes our beloved BTTF franchise and utilizes the beloved characters in a challenging way?
Can they not walk and chew gum at the same time..? No, it's as Dashing said: they believe their audience is, in essence, "stupid", because they seem to think that we couldn't handle all that? Or maybe the answer is even more simple; maybe TTG just doesn't feel the need to spend extra time and money on a product when they know, they KNOW they're working with a niche market who, because of the childhood/adolescent sentimental attachments to the aforementioned franchise (and many others), that they can release a half-assed, dumbed down game because, heck, those of us that make up that niche are going to buy the game, plain and simple.
So it boils down to a plain lack of effort on TTG's part, or an effort to make the game accessible to all the customers that don't exist - that is, to those non-fans of the BTTF franchise.
The heck? I'm all for a discussion about the merits/flaws of BTTF (and frankly I think Dashing is right in every way, even though I'm a self-described "liberal") but for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster let's keep politics out of this.
The heck? I'm all for a discussion about the merits/flaws of BTTF (and frankly I think Dashing is right in every way, even though I'm a self-described "liberal") but for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster let's keep politics out of this.
The vast liberal media conspiracy can silence Rather Dashing no longer!
As an entirely unrelated side-note, while I would personally call myself "independent", my political leanings are probably more "liberal" than they are "conservative" when using US-derived definitions of those terms.
I'm currently playing through the Broken Sword 1 Director's Cut, and I have to say that the BTTF game actually feels more difficult overall, and a whole lot less linear. From what I hear, this is not the case with the original Broken Sword, but still--it's not like it's just Telltale making games less difficult.
I'm currently playing through the Broken Sword 1 Director's Cut, and I have to say that the BTTF game actually feels more difficult than it. From what I hear, this is not the case with the original, but still--it's not just Telltale.
Are you sure you're playing the same games I'm playing? Because even the director's cut of Broken Sword is infinitely more complicated than BttF.
Are you sure you're playing the same games I'm playing? Because even the director's cut of Broken Sword is infinitely more complicated than BttF.
I'm pretty sure, yes. Broken Sword just feels so much more linear than BTTF to me. But it could just be me. The most complicated parts of the Director's Cut have been the sliding puzzles. Everything else seems to have happened to me purely by accident.
The heck? I'm all for a discussion about the merits/flaws of BTTF (and frankly I think Dashing is right in every way, even though I'm a self-described "liberal") but for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster let's keep politics out of this.
As an entirely unrelated side-note, while I would personally call myself "independent", my political leanings are probably more "liberal" than they are "conservative" when using US-derived definitions of those terms.
And for the record, I am what some people would call a "Blue Dog Democrat." Though I am also from Oklahoma which is a very conservative state (described as "the reddest state in the union",) I am actually a moderate, myself. Though I am a Christian, I do not align myself with radical right-wing political conservatives; and though I am a Democrat, I do not align myself with left-wing moral liberals.
Now, that being said, BTTF is still so dang easy and gameplay deficient it's an insult to gamers everywhere.
I'm pretty sure, yes. Broken Sword just feels so much more linear than BTTF to me. But it could just be me. The most complicated parts of the Director's Cut have been the sliding puzzles. Everything else seems to have happened to me purely by accident.
In BttF there is nothing to explore or interact with, and most "puzzles" are solved simply by clicking on things on screen without actually doing anything. Even as easy as director's cut is, it's nowhere near that easy.
It isn't even possible to argue that BttF is a good game, unless you're judging it as a game for 5 year olds, and even then, the Putt-Putt games blow it out of the water as far as both interactivity and puzzle content.
Just because you like something doesn't make it a good game, and there is no argument that anyone has made to oppose the concept of BttF being an inherently bad game. I don't care if it has the greatest storyline, best dialogue, amazing cinematics, the most awesome music ever, perfect voice acting, if the puzzles are lame and so easy that you rarely even have to think, it's a bad game. If the people that enjoy the game for whatever other reasons would simply admit that the game mechanics are completely and totally lackluster, this conversation would've been over a long, long time ago.
I'm not sure who you're arguing against here mate, I've said before that calling it a game is quite a stretch from the standpoint of any "gamer" I don't think it's a game by that definition, it's a minimally interactive adventure story, and as that and that alone I quite like it and think it succeeds. Sure, I'd like a more 'game'ey game in this universe, but right now I'm happy to have any professionally made I.P. that lets me revisit the characters simply because of my love for the franchise, and I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make more of a game next time, no doubt thanks in part to the people who refuse to enjoy it for what it is. Which is fair enough, without that feedback how will they know what we want for next time? I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm just saying that calling me wrong is like saying that I don't like music because I don't like the music you like.
I'm not sure who you're arguing against here mate, I've said before that calling it a game is quite a stretch from the standpoint of any "gamer" I don't think it's a game by that definition, it's a minimally interactive adventure story, and as that and that alone I quite like it and think it succeeds. Sure, I'd like a more 'game'ey game in this universe, but right now I'm happy to have any professionally made I.P. that lets me revisit the characters simply because of my love for the franchise, and I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make more of a game next time, no doubt thanks in part to the people who refuse to enjoy it for what it is. Which is fair enough, without that feedback how will they know what we want for next time? I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm just saying that calling me wrong is like saying that I don't like music because I don't like the music you like.
I have no problem with it being "a minimally interactive adventure story" either, except that it was billed as a game and being made by a company that has thus far almost exclusively made traditional adventure games. I don't care that the product is what it is as much as I care that they called it something it wasn't in order to essentially trick their fanbase into buying it.
I have no problem with it being "a minimally interactive adventure story" either, except that it was billed as a game and being made by a company that has thus far almost exclusively made traditional adventure games. I don't care that the product is what it is as much as I care that they called it something it wasn't in order to essentially trick their fanbase into buying it.
I'm not sure their intentions were that blatant - I still think it's a game by any real definition, I mean, snap or go fish are card 'games'. But I think they were trying to excite the BTTF fan rather than the TTG fan. I'd love to hear from one of them as to their actual target market with this. At this point I'm sure they expect the ttg fan to try it out anyway, and it's with them that they've lost the most credibility it would seem.
I'm not sure their intentions were that blatant - I still think it's a game by any real definition, I mean, snap or go fish are card 'games'. But I think they were trying to excite the BTTF fan rather than the TTG fan. I'd love to hear from one of them as to their actual target market with this. At this point I'm sure they expect the ttg fan to try it out anyway, and it's with them that they've lost the most credibility it would seem.
To me, it's like if id Software announced a first person game based on a franchise that would be really great as a first person shooter, and then just released a game where all you do is walk around and watch cutscenes and sometimes click on an enemy and they fall over dead without even trying to hurt you. It goes against every precedent the company has set previously.
I don't think they even showed a single gameplay trailer until the game was already out. Everything they showed was just from cutscenes. If they'd shown that the gameplay was as simplistic as it is, I could've canceled my pre-order, and I wouldn't feel like they cheated me out of $24 of my money (I don't count the $1 that went to the MJF Foundation.) The gameplay trailer for JP was a big part of my decision to never buy the game for more than $10, as well as the fact that I'm still not happy with BttF.
Yeah, it's what bugs me the most about this game as well. There are plenty of bad games out there that I'd never consider buying, but I bought BttF and felt cheated. I think TTG should have had the decency to let their loyal fanbase know that this might not be a "game" for us beforehand. It's a waste of $24/25 dollars for about two hours of gameplay, since I can't bring myself to even start playing another episode.
So giving the first episode away for free isn't a good enough way for Telltale to let people who aren't sure about the game try it out before committing to the cost of the full season?
This game is easy but it's a special case, since this game are pretty much bttf4 (or the next best thing since it will never happen as a movie), you "play" them for the story, not to solve puzzles/get blocked/ have to think.
I fully unerstand some people might have felt cheated, but IMO this was the best decision.
Stories can be done without any interruption in the form of books, graphic novels, audio dramas, animated TV shows and films, live action TV shows and films, and stage plays. All of these, stage plays possibly excluded, would have a lower cost of entry for the same amount of story content, and it would be better-created because none of those mediums require rendering on consumer-side hardware.
This story being a game, therefore, is a waste on your end. Even if you wanted only a story, it costs more and has a lower quality than any other otherwise linear, narrative medium. Another issue is that player control robs the story of production values and narrative pace, no matter how much control they wrest from players without actually making it a film. The gameplay, entirely tacked-on and wholly pointless(aside from just being pure shit) also takes resources away from story-based development, however little they focus on or care about it.
tl;dr: Calling it a "game" is just a way to charge you more for a relatively shit product
So giving the first episode away for free isn't a good enough way for Telltale to let people who aren't sure about the game try it out before committing to the cost of the full season?
Yes, that would have been good, if it wasn't free until TWO MONTHS LATER, after everyone who pre-ordered had played it.
So? Thems the chances you take when pre-ordering. There was enough coming from Telltale before the game came out to suggest that this was going to be an easier than the norm for them and so if you were unsure about it in any way then waiting was an option.
Stories can be done without any interruption in the form of books, graphic novels, audio dramas, animated TV shows and films, live action TV shows and films, and stage plays. All of these, stage plays possibly excluded, would have a lower cost of entry for the same amount of story content, and it would be better-created because none of those mediums require rendering on consumer-side hardware.
This story being a game, therefore, is a waste on your end. Even if you wanted only a story, it costs more and has a lower quality than any other otherwise linear, narrative medium. Another issue is that player control robs the story of production values and narrative pace, no matter how much control they wrest from players without actually making it a film. The gameplay, entirely tacked-on and wholly pointless(aside from just being pure shit) also takes resources away from story-based development, however little they focus on or care about it.
tl;dr: Calling it a "game" is just a way to charge you more for a relatively shit product
DOn't get me wrong, i totally agree with you. IMO, a 2-3 part animated movie with much better graphics and budget would have been better with this story, but i'll take it as it's the "best thing we have" and i think many more people feel like this.
I think a Universal, they wanted something for the 25th anniversary.
A new movie ? M J Fox's condition and age makes it very unlikely.
So a book/comic ? Well, it would be far less sucessfull since many people prefer "visual" stuff.
So why a "slightly interactive game" ? probably because it cost a lot less and is likely to earn then just as much (from people like me, who will still buy it for the story anyway) as a animated movie would. That's also why they put the ticket in the bluray set, to attract "fans" to go play the "sequel".
While i did recommand it to any hardcore fan i know (who loves it too), i wouldn't recommand it for others.
So? Thems the chances you take when pre-ordering. There was enough coming from Telltale before the game came out to suggest that this was going to be an easier than the norm for them and so if you were unsure about it in any way then waiting was an option.
Everything Telltale had ever said or done in the past implied they were going to go more in the direction of a more comprehensive and versatile hint system. No one ever would have expected them to literally remove any and all challenge from the entire game. Nothing Telltale had released gave me any reason to doubt that they at least intended on providing us with puzzles to solve and varying levels of difficulty. The difficulty levels in BttF are "dumb" and "dumber".
So? Thems the chances you take when pre-ordering. There was enough coming from Telltale before the game came out to suggest that this was going to be an easier than the norm for them and so if you were unsure about it in any way then waiting was an option.
That's cute.
Being easier =/= Being so lame and easy it actually makes it one of the worst, if not the worst, adventure games that was done by "talented" people that were fond of the original product.
The next big Thing has been made much easier than the runaways, and it has hint systems. And yet it feels like a real (adventure) game, it's beautiful, it's fun, it has a soul, it's not broken by design.
So just because we had to expect something "easier" didn't mean we would have this kind of easy. Telltale's history clearly did not prepare us for that.
DOn't get me wrong, i totally agree with you. IMO, a 2-3 part animated movie with much better graphics and budget would have been better with this story, but i'll take it as it's the "best thing we have" and i think many more people feel like this.
I think a Universal, they wanted something for the 25th anniversary.
A new movie ? M J Fox's condition and age makes it very unlikely.
So a book/comic ? Well, it would be far less sucessfull since many people prefer "visual" stuff.
So why a "slightly interactive game" ? probably because it cost a lot less and is likely to earn then just as much (from people like me, who will still buy it for the story anyway) as a animated movie would. That's also why they put the ticket in the bluray set, to attract "fans" to go play the "sequel".
While i did recommand it to any hardcore fan i know (who loves it too), i wouldn't recommand it for others.
Honestly, a comic book would have been so much better, but hey. Maybe an interactive online comics then ? It's pretty fun, you actually can choose what to do from times to times. That means even THAT would have been better and more fun. It would also have looked better. There could have been 3 - 4 musics repeating themselves just like in the actual game... Really, what would have we missed ? The bad animations ? The painful walk ? The useless and far fetched things that makes it impossible to look at it as a real "part 4" ?
I would have been up for it, and it would have been a "continuation" of story. It wouldn't have stretched out a 2 hours max concept on 5 episodes, making the whole thing dull and horribly paced.
Also, what people really need to realize, is that "the best thing" doesn't necessarily means "a good thing". It's just "not as bad as". Yeah it's the best BTTF game ever. But the bar was so low that actually means nothing.
Also, one of the developper dared to say "it was character driven", Universal asked them for a "character driven game". Yeah, but how in the world can a "character driven game" mean "no interaction, no challenge, no puzzle, no choice" ? Aren't you guys able to do the minimum ? It's like it's one or the other ...
If people are that angry, it's because Telltale had proved they could do it. But with BTTF they're defending themselves as if "watching characters talk" is all we could expect from the licence and their teams.
Because that was just one series, one which that we knew ahead of time would be easier than the norm for the company. If out of 7 seasons of games there is only one that you don't like then that is still a hell of a good record for any company.
No we didn't.
They marketed it from the beginning as an adventure game with not so much as a clue that it would be any different from their past games. As I understand it, S&M3 was easier than the initial 2 seasons, but BTTF has seemingly lowered the bar so much lower than that. And there was no warning. We were duped into purchasing, nay, pre-ordering an item we thought we had a good grasp on what we were expecting to receive based on past titles. It was a match made in heaven! Only to find out it was something completely different for a completely different audience. In fact, when the announcements for BTTF and JP first came out Dave Grossman would say nothing about either except that Jurassic Park (not BTTF) would be different from what fans would expect from them.
That's called deception.
So yeah, if pre-ordering software from Telltale is going to be like this from now on then I'll never pre-order anything ever again from them. And that's sad because previously we didn't have to be so careful. We knew what we were getting. Now, not so much.
The only good that came from preordering BttF was the 80% everything 1 day sale the day before the first episode came out. I was able to get all 3 seasons of Sam and Max, Strong Bad, Wallace and Gromit, both Bones, Puzzle agent and Poker Night for $10. So in all, I got all that other stuff and a really bad game for $35.
Really really easy. It almost bored me sometimes with how quick everything went by if it wasn't for my love for BTTF I wouldn't have even played the rest.
They marketed it from the beginning as an adventure game with not so much as a clue that it would be any different from their past games. As I understand it, S&M3 was easier than the initial 2 seasons, but BTTF has seemingly lowered the bar so much lower than that. And there was no warning. We were duped into purchasing, nay, pre-ordering an item we thought we had a good grasp on what we were expecting to receive based on past titles. It was a match made in heaven! Only to find out it was something completely different for a completely different audience. In fact, when the announcements for BTTF and JP first came out Dave Grossman would say nothing about either except that Jurassic Park (not BTTF) would be different from what fans would expect from them.
That's called deception.
As a matter of fact, yes we did know that it would be easier, it was obvious from the discussions right here in the forums, and the long-term TTG fans were well aware that this game would be going in a different direction. We were shaking, frankly. "Deception" is right out.
In this thread specifically, Origami complains about the difficulty before release. That is one strong expectation. But other quotes can be found all over the place before December 22, 2010. This thread discusses the matter in more detail beforehand; the conclusions from the given information might differ, but it is very clear that BTTF would have a different "feel". The pre-orderers did not think they knew what to expect; we were discussing this feverishly.
TRANSLATION:
GV: What can you tell us about gameplay? How will the game be?
TTG: Considering the target, that's not only the Graphic Adventure's fans but also all the ones who loved the movie (and they are a LOT and not everyone Videogame players!), we choosed for a casual approach, putting the accent on the interaction between characters, puzzles inside the same location (not like Sam&Max) and some action element.
Yeah, that's a soup with many ingredients which might not really fit together. If "interaction between characters" means story without gameplay, "puzzles inside the same location" means more linearity and "action elements" means poorly-integrated sequences like in "Dreamfall", then we're up for something extremely boring.
Now, only thing I'm affraid of (cauz I'm sure every aspect of the game will be awesome) is the fact that it's going to be "casual" and very easy, thus very short.
I dare anyone to prove me wrong, I'd love to enjoy Back to the Future, but the attitude they are expressing is very difficult to assemble into something that is an actually good, fun to play game.
I just hope the puzzles are fun even though they'll be 'easy'. How is it fun if it's too easy you ask?
Well it can be fun because of execution and payoff. Say you change something in one era and you see the consequences of it in a different one.
At the time, it is indeed not the question wether people who want "a time travelling story" might not be satisfied, it's more that people who want a time travelling game still don't know if they can hope to be served.
Granted, the following are from the insider forum, but have quickly leaked into the regular discussion:
BTTF is such a story-driven license that we felt the experience of playing the game needed to mimic the experience of watching the films...but with puzzles and interactivity. Doing this has allowed us to craft a much more in depth, character driven story than we've done in some of our other games. If it was just a bunch of crazy puzzles held together with some "that's heavy" lines and a DeLorean then it wouldn't feel like BTTF in our eyes. There will still be some non-linearity, but it's definitely going to be a more solid, well-constructed storyline.
The idea is to make it so that fans will dig it and then add some things in to make sure it's more accessible. There are some gags that are BTTF knowledge dependent, but we have some clever hints built in to assist those who may not have seen the films in awhile too.
None of that even implies that there would be no puzzles whatsoever. It implies they were trying a more streamlined puzzle design that would be a bit easier with less backtracking, but it doesn't imply that you wouldn't even need to make any attempts at rational thought to solve the "puzzles".
They even listed graphic adventure fans as their target, which implies they intended on giving us something worth playing at the same time as giving BttF casual fans a game that they could finish. This doesn't indicate that they intended on giving both groups the exact same experience.
I'm not going to go Socrates on you all , just me and you.:)
Guys/ girls, I love you all but let's be realistic this forum was made for a adventure gaming company, it started with topics on adventure games, it attracted adventure gamers...
I met most of you talking about adventure games on this forum. We're all experienced adventure gamers, of course this game is easy for us...I know people my age and twice my age that haven't even touched a adventure game in their entire life. Or since they were like 6 years old.
Let's be fair. The real question is not if a forum full of experienced adventure gamers thinks this game is complete stink, it's if people who are being reintroduced to the genre think it's too easy, or don't like it.
I believe we're lacking vision, insights into this situation. Sam and Max and many other Tale Tell Tale games were already inspired off of adventure gaming material , and that's what really kicked this place off and brought us all together.
BTTF is a movie, and most of the world population has probably seen that movie, the audience is much larger. So I made a poll...
The new target group notwithstanding, I think yet another difficulty voting thread is not necessary. I guarantee that the ones who were willing to discuss this would be exactly the same community members you can find in this thread.
I had considered that, but this forum is influenced mostly by adventure gaming peers. At any rate, what's done is done. That's the way this place works, and is designed to work. Thank you for your reasoning.
The new target group notwithstanding, I think yet another difficulty voting thread is not necessary. I guarantee that the ones who were willing to discuss this would be exactly the same community members you can find in this thread.
Did you delete my reply to his thread, or was it eaten by the move?
I see the idea, but it would not determine the outcome of the poll. You still have the people in here who like the BTTF game and those who do not, and both would vote regardless of their being new to adventures or not. If you want that statistics - and it would be an interesting thing to know for TTG too! - we might collect community member opinions related to their join date. It's not the same, but maybe an approximation that might even work.
Did you delete my reply to his thread, or was it eaten by the move?
Nothing deleted in here. I think it was eaten by the move. When I reloaded the forum, it had your name as the last poster in this thread, but when I clicked on your name, it actually led to my profile. I panicked for a second.
I'm sorry. You have a job, I know what that's like. Carry on, sir. It's not easy being the guy in charge of something. I understand. It's your call, and it's not always a easy call to make. I understand your reasons.
Now, I won't go on and on, and make waves over a silly topic about a topic
I'll try to make threads in the future that don't fit into other threads. But, my poll did have a vote and name listed policy, so I could see if people were voting that I knew were adventure gamers.
Peace, I guess everyone wants what is fair, and you're the guy to try to bridge that gap. And it's good that some one is here to do that. I understand your reasons.
Yes, it's easy. But I'm not really an adventure gamer and I just like BTTF. A lot. And the game has amazing voice acting, funny dialogue, and an interesting story. So that's good enough for me. Yes, it feels more like an interactive movie than a game. But Back to the Future is a movie. So this is good.
Yes, it's easy. But I'm not really an adventure gamer and I just like BTTF. A lot. And the game has amazing voice acting, funny dialogue, and an interesting story. So that's good enough for me. Yes, it feels more like an interactive movie than a game. But Back to the Future is a movie. So this is good.
If it were called Back to the Future: The Slightly Interactive Movie, that would be fine. It is called "The Game", however.
Whether the puzzles are easy or not, it's still a game. Even if a easy game. The story revolves around puzzles, and problem solving. Even to a greater degree than the movies. In the first movie, there's about 1-2 puzzles. One where Marty is late to school, so skate boards holding onto cars, the other where they send him back to his time zone.
For the most part, the rest of the movie is story line.
This game as a movie would be very silly and laughable, easy or not, it's still a game. I wouldn't want to watch a movie where Marty spends 5 to 6 minutes chasing down a dog, and covering its feet in paint . I wouldn't want to watch a movie, I can't think of any good examples. But this game clearly rotates on puzzles, rather than it does purely story/ dialog.
Marty doesn't constantly go around in the movies macgyvering things together...Where as it can be considered a easy game, to consider it a movie is nonsense. The movies don't have problem after problem in them. They do, but I don't feel like I'm watching a puzzle game.
Part two and three both only have a few scenes that any rational person would consider puzzle scenes as could be seen in a game...
It really has no more or less story than a game like Day of the Tentacle has, throughout game play. The only difference is that this game is easier, it's still a game.
There's breaks in the story line, where you have to do certain things to progress in the game, movies don't have that, movies don't pause or take time outs or have goals/objectives.
Comments
I take it you're a liberal?
I, for one, wholly support R.D.'s position and frankly, think he's bang-on.
As for the case I've seen being made in support of the game itself, specifically the 'it's not about the puzzles, it's about the characters and the storyline', to those arguing as much, I ask you: Why can't TTG give us both. It seemed like Lucasarts & MI franchise seemed to do a better job on both counts; why cannot we not expect a game that takes our beloved BTTF franchise and utilizes the beloved characters in a challenging way?
Can they not walk and chew gum at the same time..? No, it's as Dashing said: they believe their audience is, in essence, "stupid", because they seem to think that we couldn't handle all that? Or maybe the answer is even more simple; maybe TTG just doesn't feel the need to spend extra time and money on a product when they know, they KNOW they're working with a niche market who, because of the childhood/adolescent sentimental attachments to the aforementioned franchise (and many others), that they can release a half-assed, dumbed down game because, heck, those of us that make up that niche are going to buy the game, plain and simple.
So it boils down to a plain lack of effort on TTG's part, or an effort to make the game accessible to all the customers that don't exist - that is, to those non-fans of the BTTF franchise.
The vast liberal media conspiracy can silence Rather Dashing no longer!
Are you sure you're playing the same games I'm playing? Because even the director's cut of Broken Sword is infinitely more complicated than BttF.
I'm pretty sure, yes. Broken Sword just feels so much more linear than BTTF to me. But it could just be me. The most complicated parts of the Director's Cut have been the sliding puzzles. Everything else seems to have happened to me purely by accident.
And for the record, I am what some people would call a "Blue Dog Democrat." Though I am also from Oklahoma which is a very conservative state (described as "the reddest state in the union",) I am actually a moderate, myself. Though I am a Christian, I do not align myself with radical right-wing political conservatives; and though I am a Democrat, I do not align myself with left-wing moral liberals.
Now, that being said, BTTF is still so dang easy and gameplay deficient it's an insult to gamers everywhere.
In BttF there is nothing to explore or interact with, and most "puzzles" are solved simply by clicking on things on screen without actually doing anything. Even as easy as director's cut is, it's nowhere near that easy.
I'm not sure who you're arguing against here mate, I've said before that calling it a game is quite a stretch from the standpoint of any "gamer" I don't think it's a game by that definition, it's a minimally interactive adventure story, and as that and that alone I quite like it and think it succeeds. Sure, I'd like a more 'game'ey game in this universe, but right now I'm happy to have any professionally made I.P. that lets me revisit the characters simply because of my love for the franchise, and I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make more of a game next time, no doubt thanks in part to the people who refuse to enjoy it for what it is. Which is fair enough, without that feedback how will they know what we want for next time? I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm just saying that calling me wrong is like saying that I don't like music because I don't like the music you like.
I have no problem with it being "a minimally interactive adventure story" either, except that it was billed as a game and being made by a company that has thus far almost exclusively made traditional adventure games. I don't care that the product is what it is as much as I care that they called it something it wasn't in order to essentially trick their fanbase into buying it.
I'm not sure their intentions were that blatant - I still think it's a game by any real definition, I mean, snap or go fish are card 'games'. But I think they were trying to excite the BTTF fan rather than the TTG fan. I'd love to hear from one of them as to their actual target market with this. At this point I'm sure they expect the ttg fan to try it out anyway, and it's with them that they've lost the most credibility it would seem.
To me, it's like if id Software announced a first person game based on a franchise that would be really great as a first person shooter, and then just released a game where all you do is walk around and watch cutscenes and sometimes click on an enemy and they fall over dead without even trying to hurt you. It goes against every precedent the company has set previously.
I don't think they even showed a single gameplay trailer until the game was already out. Everything they showed was just from cutscenes. If they'd shown that the gameplay was as simplistic as it is, I could've canceled my pre-order, and I wouldn't feel like they cheated me out of $24 of my money (I don't count the $1 that went to the MJF Foundation.) The gameplay trailer for JP was a big part of my decision to never buy the game for more than $10, as well as the fact that I'm still not happy with BttF.
I fully unerstand some people might have felt cheated, but IMO this was the best decision.
This story being a game, therefore, is a waste on your end. Even if you wanted only a story, it costs more and has a lower quality than any other otherwise linear, narrative medium. Another issue is that player control robs the story of production values and narrative pace, no matter how much control they wrest from players without actually making it a film. The gameplay, entirely tacked-on and wholly pointless(aside from just being pure shit) also takes resources away from story-based development, however little they focus on or care about it.
tl;dr: Calling it a "game" is just a way to charge you more for a relatively shit product
Yes, that would have been good, if it wasn't free until TWO MONTHS LATER, after everyone who pre-ordered had played it.
DOn't get me wrong, i totally agree with you. IMO, a 2-3 part animated movie with much better graphics and budget would have been better with this story, but i'll take it as it's the "best thing we have" and i think many more people feel like this.
I think a Universal, they wanted something for the 25th anniversary.
A new movie ? M J Fox's condition and age makes it very unlikely.
So a book/comic ? Well, it would be far less sucessfull since many people prefer "visual" stuff.
So why a "slightly interactive game" ? probably because it cost a lot less and is likely to earn then just as much (from people like me, who will still buy it for the story anyway) as a animated movie would. That's also why they put the ticket in the bluray set, to attract "fans" to go play the "sequel".
While i did recommand it to any hardcore fan i know (who loves it too), i wouldn't recommand it for others.
Everything Telltale had ever said or done in the past implied they were going to go more in the direction of a more comprehensive and versatile hint system. No one ever would have expected them to literally remove any and all challenge from the entire game. Nothing Telltale had released gave me any reason to doubt that they at least intended on providing us with puzzles to solve and varying levels of difficulty. The difficulty levels in BttF are "dumb" and "dumber".
That's cute.
Being easier =/= Being so lame and easy it actually makes it one of the worst, if not the worst, adventure games that was done by "talented" people that were fond of the original product.
The next big Thing has been made much easier than the runaways, and it has hint systems. And yet it feels like a real (adventure) game, it's beautiful, it's fun, it has a soul, it's not broken by design.
So just because we had to expect something "easier" didn't mean we would have this kind of easy. Telltale's history clearly did not prepare us for that.
Honestly, a comic book would have been so much better, but hey. Maybe an interactive online comics then ? It's pretty fun, you actually can choose what to do from times to times. That means even THAT would have been better and more fun. It would also have looked better. There could have been 3 - 4 musics repeating themselves just like in the actual game... Really, what would have we missed ? The bad animations ? The painful walk ? The useless and far fetched things that makes it impossible to look at it as a real "part 4" ?
I would have been up for it, and it would have been a "continuation" of story. It wouldn't have stretched out a 2 hours max concept on 5 episodes, making the whole thing dull and horribly paced.
Also, what people really need to realize, is that "the best thing" doesn't necessarily means "a good thing". It's just "not as bad as". Yeah it's the best BTTF game ever. But the bar was so low that actually means nothing.
Also, one of the developper dared to say "it was character driven", Universal asked them for a "character driven game". Yeah, but how in the world can a "character driven game" mean "no interaction, no challenge, no puzzle, no choice" ? Aren't you guys able to do the minimum ? It's like it's one or the other ...
If people are that angry, it's because Telltale had proved they could do it. But with BTTF they're defending themselves as if "watching characters talk" is all we could expect from the licence and their teams.
No we didn't.
They marketed it from the beginning as an adventure game with not so much as a clue that it would be any different from their past games. As I understand it, S&M3 was easier than the initial 2 seasons, but BTTF has seemingly lowered the bar so much lower than that. And there was no warning. We were duped into purchasing, nay, pre-ordering an item we thought we had a good grasp on what we were expecting to receive based on past titles. It was a match made in heaven! Only to find out it was something completely different for a completely different audience. In fact, when the announcements for BTTF and JP first came out Dave Grossman would say nothing about either except that Jurassic Park (not BTTF) would be different from what fans would expect from them.
That's called deception.
So yeah, if pre-ordering software from Telltale is going to be like this from now on then I'll never pre-order anything ever again from them. And that's sad because previously we didn't have to be so careful. We knew what we were getting. Now, not so much.
As a matter of fact, yes we did know that it would be easier, it was obvious from the discussions right here in the forums, and the long-term TTG fans were well aware that this game would be going in a different direction. We were shaking, frankly. "Deception" is right out.
In this thread specifically, Origami complains about the difficulty before release. That is one strong expectation. But other quotes can be found all over the place before December 22, 2010. This thread discusses the matter in more detail beforehand; the conclusions from the given information might differ, but it is very clear that BTTF would have a different "feel". The pre-orderers did not think they knew what to expect; we were discussing this feverishly.
Granted, the following are from the insider forum, but have quickly leaked into the regular discussion:
They even listed graphic adventure fans as their target, which implies they intended on giving us something worth playing at the same time as giving BttF casual fans a game that they could finish. This doesn't indicate that they intended on giving both groups the exact same experience.
Guys/ girls, I love you all but let's be realistic this forum was made for a adventure gaming company, it started with topics on adventure games, it attracted adventure gamers...
I met most of you talking about adventure games on this forum. We're all experienced adventure gamers, of course this game is easy for us...I know people my age and twice my age that haven't even touched a adventure game in their entire life. Or since they were like 6 years old.
Let's be fair. The real question is not if a forum full of experienced adventure gamers thinks this game is complete stink, it's if people who are being reintroduced to the genre think it's too easy, or don't like it.
I believe we're lacking vision, insights into this situation. Sam and Max and many other Tale Tell Tale games were already inspired off of adventure gaming material , and that's what really kicked this place off and brought us all together.
BTTF is a movie, and most of the world population has probably seen that movie, the audience is much larger. So I made a poll...
*sighs*
I had considered that, but this forum is influenced mostly by adventure gaming peers. At any rate, what's done is done. That's the way this place works, and is designed to work. Thank you for your reasoning.
Nothing deleted in here. I think it was eaten by the move. When I reloaded the forum, it had your name as the last poster in this thread, but when I clicked on your name, it actually led to my profile. I panicked for a second.
Your the same person!! Thats why you two have never been seen in the same room togeather.
Now, I won't go on and on, and make waves over a silly topic about a topic
I'll try to make threads in the future that don't fit into other threads. But, my poll did have a vote and name listed policy, so I could see if people were voting that I knew were adventure gamers.
Peace, I guess everyone wants what is fair, and you're the guy to try to bridge that gap. And it's good that some one is here to do that. I understand your reasons.
I can't believe I didn't see it earlier! Time to start a conspiracy theorist subforum!
If it were called Back to the Future: The Slightly Interactive Movie, that would be fine. It is called "The Game", however.
For the most part, the rest of the movie is story line.
This game as a movie would be very silly and laughable, easy or not, it's still a game. I wouldn't want to watch a movie where Marty spends 5 to 6 minutes chasing down a dog, and covering its feet in paint . I wouldn't want to watch a movie, I can't think of any good examples. But this game clearly rotates on puzzles, rather than it does purely story/ dialog.
Marty doesn't constantly go around in the movies macgyvering things together...Where as it can be considered a easy game, to consider it a movie is nonsense. The movies don't have problem after problem in them. They do, but I don't feel like I'm watching a puzzle game.
Part two and three both only have a few scenes that any rational person would consider puzzle scenes as could be seen in a game...
It really has no more or less story than a game like Day of the Tentacle has, throughout game play. The only difference is that this game is easier, it's still a game.
There's breaks in the story line, where you have to do certain things to progress in the game, movies don't have that, movies don't pause or take time outs or have goals/objectives.