When there will be no stories left to tell, it would be better to wrap things up, end the series and leave it be. In my opinion, Monkey Island is something like Indiana Jones series, or Space Quest - it doesn't have a universe interesting or deep enough to be worth exploring out of Guybrush's context.
Uhm, I guess I just have to strongly disagree on that one. The Monkey Island universe is just about unique enough and interesting enough to warrant several games. It's not the characters alone that makes the games so good, it's the world it's set in. Guybrush and co aren't universal characters that could be used for anything. They're pretty tied to their universe. Monkey Island isn't a generic pirate setting, it's got its own personality and unique ideas to it.
Indinana Jones series doesn't really have a universe. It's all about the characters, and the setting is the real world as it was at that time it's set in, with a little supernatural elements thrown in (usually at the end) for good measure. I don't know Space Quest enough to comment on that.
Basically, Monkey Island is the character and the universe combined. Guybrush or LeChuck wouldn't really work in anything but Monkey Island. And besides, it's still in the Monkey Island universe regardless of which of the main characters we control.
When there will be no stories left to tell, it would be better to wrap things up, end the series and leave it be. In my opinion, Monkey Island is something like Indiana Jones series, or Space Quest - it doesn't have a universe interesting or deep enough to be worth exploring out of Guybrush's context.
I agree with StarEye on this one. I think that the Monkey Island certainly has potential for a lot more exploring, whether that be in the main series; searching it through Guybrush, or in potential/hypothetical spin-off games (which I'm hoping will be created some time in the future - I still think a Morgan LeFlay spin-off would be a great idea).
The Monkey Island universe, from what we've seen, is immensely interesting and quite diverse. We've already come across so many different and interesting places which share very different scenery and atmospheres: Scabb, Plunder, Spinner Cay, Monkey itself, Phatt - no two of these locations are similar, but they're all wonderful locations. So, after seeing dozens of diverse and interesting locations such as these, there's no reason why more can't be introduced; things haven't even begun to get repetitive yet, so that means that the introduction of more new things is welcome.
Monkey Island is naturally a franchise in which there aren't many restrictions; it's set in a strange, absurd, interesting, nonsensical world where things where anachronisms are welcome, things don't always have to be serious or believable, and stuff doesn't always have to make sense. It's like Discworld, in a way. For sure, that's only set in one place - the disc - but look how many books have come from it; how many different stories have been painted using that particular background. The Monkey Island world, like the Discworld, is a world in which there is so much room for creativity. This is why we've seen talking monkeys, voodoo, communist pirate communities, zombies, fat dictators, giant monkey heads, pirate barbers, giant manatees, talking skulls, mermaids - the opportunities are infinite in a world like this; there is always going to be a story that can be told, and it can be told well even without a character like Guybrush. Why? Because the world is interesting and it has depth.
I remember reading 'Colour of Magic', the first Discworld novel. I loved it; I thought it was great, partially because of how great the characters were. I then began reading 'Mort'. I didn't think it was going to be as good because it wasn't going to feature characters like Rincewind (as main characters, anyway), but I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was just as good, because the story was told in such an interesting world, which is what the Monkey Island world is like.
In fact, there is even more freedom in the MI world because, unlike Discworld, the physical boundaries of the world are not even mentioned or set in place. This means that the writers of MI don't have to come up with new ideas to take place in the same environments; they can expand upon the universe as much as they like. We may not have even begun to scratch the surface of the Monkey Island world.
There are no boundaries in the Monkey Island world, in both senses - no literal borderlines, and no major restrictions when it comes to writing. And, honestly, there are just an infinite amount of possibilities; there is an incredible amount that can still be explored in this world, I don't even know where to begin. There is so much cultivating that can still be done to the locations we have already seen, and then there's all of the locations we haven't seen.
"It doesn't have a universe interesting or deep enough to be worth exploring out of Guybrush's context.", I just completely disagree.
I will state my opinion in detail right now. You may disagree with me, that's your total right, but I think I will make myself clear enough to prove my point as being valid enough to have some weight (btw, I know I was wrong about listing Indiana Jones as an example, I just couldn't edit it out, forum started throwing Database Errors at me, had to leave).
In my opinion (and I don't find nothing wrong with that) MI universe is, well, a spoof universe. I suppose, there are different kinds of spoof universes. MI world is one which cannot exist as a seeming universe without constantly expanding it's borders. Each island in MI games is designed for specific puzzle/plot and JOKE/spoof purposes, and is a one-shot island, so to speak. EMI kinda proved it, you know. Lucre Island and Jambalaya Island are very good and interesting locales (which also do serve the plot well, and if we don't mind several bizarre puzzles which, frankly, each MI game regrettably has, they're very good). Melee Island - boring, Monkey Island - crap.
Melee Island wasn't changed much. Yeah, kinda something happened there, kinda something new (though mostly a lot of SoMI stuff was just cut), but, really, with the reuse of the old SoMI locales Melee Island was just a rehash of SoMI's Melee Island (and SoMI's Melee had every inch of it's land used for puzzles/plot/jokes) - it's just that few new things can be done there (and they weren't planned and the universe isn't suited for it). Now, Monkey Island in EMI has a lot of changes... and it was kind of crap. They were forced to shoehorn in changes and puzzles to the island which wasn't designed or suited for these changes and puzzles, and that's why it failed. MI universe is not flexible.
You can say that we revisited Scabb island in MI2 and Flotsam Island in ToMI... True. The thing is, they were specifically designed to be revisited (and also ToMI has the advantage of Ch1 having crappy jungle puzzles, making the actually good jungle puzzle in Ch4 feel fresh). But now... would it really be interesting to visit Scabb and Flotsam again? Is there something new to be done there? Yeah, if you shoehorn the changes. But why do that when you create a new island for a lot better experience?
Of course, you can set it 50-70 years later, and it may become more interesting. It may give a sense of being one universe, but, heck, other than to have references to old MI games there will be no real point or purpose.
You know, there are other games like MI, like Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island or Jack Keane to name a few. They can be hypothetically set in the same universe for what we know (though in case of Jack Keane it's a little bit in the future with a little use of some real-world localse), but... they kinda aren't. And I admire MI for having this unique property of being unlimited (it really is, you can create as many islands you want), but it doesn't give it any kind of depth. Just quantity. It's not bad. But without Guybrush, why it has to be set in the MI universe? Why would a new/old character would have to revisit old locales? Just for some references? Are references really worth it? Is there some juice left in the old islands which is not drawn out? New islands, maybe. But what old character is REALLY worthy enough to be a PC (bar Winslow )? They still would have to visit new islands though, because of the type of universe MI is. And that won't give the MI universe any more depth. Besides, I think that Guybrush and the MI universe are one and the same - constantly on the move, never really looking back, and if Guybrush retires, so will have MI universe to retire too. And if there's a new spoofy pirate game with new fictional islands, if it's good, who cares what universe it is set in? I really would rather have it to be a new universe with new characters and new reference points, though
EDIT: PS. I can't really argument anything regarding Discworld, as I haven't read any of Terry Pratchet's works and didn't play any of the games based on his works.
I actually see what you mean that the Islands have been designed specifically for the puzzles, but I don't see what that has to do with Guybrush having to be the main character. Is Guybrush the only viable option if we want to expand on the universe by visiting new islands? I don't think so. There's no reason why this would have to change even if there was a new main (playable) character like LeChuck. In fact, LeChuck has been to many more places than Guybrush has, if we take the stories into account. Guybrush has usually just gone to islands by chance, or in search of LeChuck to save Elaine. Most of the time he can't choose where to go, but just ends up there some way or other. LeChuck on the other hand usually have a very clear goal and reason to go where he goes, and we're always lead to believe that LeChuck is pretty busy and have a lot going on in the background. We just never sees it because we're always controlling Guybrush.
Now, with LeChuck as a main character, there could be some experimentation going on, and personally I'd love to see him have a couple of unique abilities like ones we get in the Kyrandia series. For example, if he's a ghost, one of his abilities could possibly to walk through doors (no more "this door is locked, let's find the key or way to enter" kind of puzzles). Of course, if he's just recently ressurrected, he's not quite as powerful as before, thus he needs to learn his skills from scratch, so we don't have all his skills from the start. Aquiring these skills could very well be the the main part of the game. If I were to design this game, I would design this part like Part II in MI2 (The Four Map Pieces). All new islands, and of course the puzzles would have to be built around his persona. His way of solving things would usually be much more sinister. Not go around killing everything that comes in his way because he's still not quite as strong as he used to be. He's getting old, and being killed so many times has to take its toll on his overall condition. Voodoo is basically more or less what's keeping the guy from falling apart, and he just doesn't have quite enough of it at the start of this hypothetical game.
I really want to play as LeChuck at some point. Because I find his character interesting enough to expand on. Expanding on LeChuck as a character isn't even something new in Monkey Island. We heard about how he deliberatly broke Minnie Goodsoup's heart. We heard about how he got back from the Crossroads. We even heard of LeChuck's "adventures" in EMI. He's obviously been through a lot, so adventuring isn't really something new for him either. It's not like he just sits in a corner waiting for the big showdown between him and Guybrush in every game. There's a lot of potential for a good story. I want to control LeChuck and see what he does to make his sinister plan happen. He's not a lazy character, he travels a lot, and makes stuff happen in his own way. I want to be part of his plotting and planning and making it happen for once.
That said, and I think I speak for most of use now, I would be very happy with any new Monkey Island game, regardless of who the new main character is, as long as it's a well-established one. Personally, I don't think Morgan is established enough to be well recieved as a main character yet. Either Elaine or LeChuck, preferably LeChuck.
Well I gotta say... Guybrush forever. Would not care for a different character as the main lead. I wouldn't mind switching off between Guybrush and, say, Elaine.
I basically agree that LeChuck should stay dead... at least for a little while
I'm really liking the idea of using the essence of LeChuck to make new villians for Guybrush, although I hope its not like in Season 1 of sam and max where its like different parts of his personality.
I feel Telltale should combine two franchises such as Tales and Sam And Max. You could really get some classic ideas there. In this you could work with both Guybrush and Sam and Max to save the world but not from Lechuck or Skunkape or anything but a common enemy. Telltale could either invent a character or use some combination of some enemies taken from both games.
But that is just wishful thinking. However tell me what you think of the idea.
Cheers!!
I feel Telltale should combine two franchises such as Tales and Sam And Max. You could really get some classic ideas there. In this you could work with both Guybrush and Sam and Max to save the world but not from Lechuck or Skunkape or anything but a common enemy. Telltale could either invent a character or use some combination of some enemies taken from both games.
But that is just wishful thinking. However tell me what you think of the idea.
Cheers!!
Well, I've never been a fan of crossovers, myself. So I actually think that it would result in everything feeling way too out of place and... strange. Just because they're two great series of games, it doesn't mean they're going to gel very well. Chocolate and pizza are both great foods, but I can't imagine they'd be great eaten together; it's the same things with games.
That's just me, though. I'm sure there are other users here that would love the idea, but I personally don't.
I agree, that kinda sounds horrible for my liking. The completely different humour will totally crash and it will just end up being a mess of ideas. These two series are just too different to be merged successfully.
I've always felt Monkey Island was a bit epic in a lot of regards. Especially MI2 and to a degree, ToMI. They're of a different degree than the epic Sam and Max reached for in Devil's Playhouse though. Playhouse was like a B Movie, Monkey Island is more like its obvious source material in Pirates of the Caribbean.
The way that I pereiceve that I perecieve my "feelings" are, is that I may want to see what I may consider "growth" in this franchise. I may want to see it "expand a little".
The way that I pereiceve that I perecieve my "feelings" are, is that I may want to see what I may consider "growth" in this franchise. I may want to see it "expand a little".
You mean like getting to know the characters better and their past or do you mean like you want it to expand outside the Caribbean sea?
If you think about it we really do not know much about LeChuck at all... beyond him being a pirate , wanting Elaine as his wife, and wanting Guybrush dead... there is still a lot to explore.
If you think about it we really do not know much about LeChuck at all... beyond him being a pirate , wanting Elaine as his wife, and wanting Guybrush dead... there is still a lot to explore.
I personally don't know if Lechuck is a character that is as much explorable, do we really want to know more about him, relate to him, make him more human to us? Guybrush and Elaine, on the other hand are no brianers. I think they may benefit from a new vilian, protagonist .
I think we could learn more about him... but no I do not want to relate to him... I think the biggest mistake the Star Wars franchise made was neutering Vader.
But I think we can have more of him... and expand on him being an evil monster.
I think we could learn more about him... but no I do not want to relate to him... I think the biggest mistake the Star Wars franchise made was neutering Vader.
But I think we can have more of him... and expand on him being an evil monster.
I agree. If done in the right way, we can all learn more about him, and see his true evil. I wouldn't want to relate to him either. He's the bad guy. He should stay that way.
What would be the right way? Seriously we've seen him in every form, even a human. We've seen him try to manipulate us, fool and trick us in the fith game, we've seen him as a evil zombie, evil ghost, he's even been as complex as to create some sort of innovative carnival of the damned on monkey island and boy was that painful and tiring in both 2 and 3...
Then in the 4th they even had him doing politics...
What more can they possibly do, and off of that the protangonist and angtonigst , what more can they have there? There's nothing more we could learn about the character of Guybrush and Elaine in relationship to Lechuck...
The fith game did a great job in finishing it off and giving us just about everything else imaginable out of their relationship. We saw a side of guybrush and elaine that we hadn't seen before. The game was brilliant! But the horse has been rode and even given wings by now...it's even be flogged as it layed their dead with flies on it to keep moving on forward....
As much as nostalgia serves a interest in the characters of the franchised, cherished memories and all of that great stuff...when you get down to it old Lechuck is getting pretty generic, boring, expected...atleast the fith game mixed it up a little...
What more is there? He tries marrying Elaine...he makes Elaine his demon bride in five...He becomes human, he becomes a ghost, he becomes a zombie, he has ridiculus but brilliant plan...he has ridiculus and stupid plan...seriously that ship has sailed and been sunk so many damn times....same old horizion that was never sailed into...it's time to pick up the high tide winds and go some place new...on a ship that literally has some life on it instead of some new form of lechuck which probably won't add anything new to the franchise but another example of how flat and forced his character really is...
His character does little to nothing for Guybrush now, makes him flat, gives him less dynamic, same with Elaine. TTG was smart to approach it like they did giving the game some life, almost making it like a movie by bringing in new characters to help the ship from sinking!
Even Lucas arts knew this was true, hence Ozzie and hence him being a little tool in 4...he needs other supporting characters to make a decent game, a game others are willing to make. Just look at the 5th game!...
What saves CMI is the new life it brings to the franchise, the almost like you're playing a Disney movie feeling...sort of rebirthed things with voices, beautiful animations...GREAT supporting characters closely involved with Guybrush.Such as the famous Murray...
This is most likely why Lechuck was in the 5th game most of it but literally avoided as he wasn't actually in his lechuck form for most of the game...
Or maybe they could show Lechuck as a minor villian working for someone even more dastardly than him. Someone with malice ten times of that of Lechuck. This someone could be the source of all the voodoo powers. Someone like the DEVIL himself.
But I think that's already done in sam and max.
Cheers!!
Or maybe they could show Lechuck as a minor villian working for someone even more dastardly than him. Someone with malice ten times of that of Lechuck. This someone could be the source of all the voodoo powers. Someone like the DEVIL himself.
But I think that's already done in sam and max.
Cheers!!
I rather have something like Elaine's "curse" coming back and her being the vilian and Guybrush having face off against her without destroying her, that would have a lot of emotion, comedy, substance over all to it...
Or maybe they could show Lechuck as a minor villian working for someone even more dastardly than him. Someone with malice ten times of that of Lechuck.
This is it! Sensational reappearance of Ozzie Mandrill!!
It's like Kevin Smith said. summed up. You would expect a whiny, angry teen who's upset at the world to grow up and be this dark evil, twisted. lord of the empire...
So, I don't have a problem with young Anakin being a whiny kid.
I actually quite liked/like Ozzie as well, and I would have absolutely no objection to seeing him brought back. Except... I have no idea how - the guy was completely crushed at the end of 'Escape...'.
I actually quite liked/like Ozzie as well, and I would have absolutely no objection to seeing him brought back. Except... I have no idea how - the guy was completely crushed at the end of 'Escape...'.
I meant if we were to see LeChuck's past or something in order to learn more about him, then it should be about how cruel and evil a man he was before dying. It shouldn't be about why he's being cruel and evil.
One of the things I truly adore about LeChuck's Revenge is that LeChuck really is evil. He stops at nothing to get his own back on Threepwood. And you know what? I love the ending of Revenge too, quite simply because it implies that LeChuck won. He got Threepwood in the end. He didn't kill him, but instead sort of trapped him for his amusement. (This is my take on the ending - I appreciate that it's a whole other subject, but I figured it was kind of relevent in this case as I was pointing out that LeChuck works great as a main evil character and that is where he should stay).
For fear of beginning to repeat myself I will finish by saying in short I do think that we have more to explore on LeChuck, and I do think he should stay the main evil character. He just needs to come back bigger and badder than ever.
Sure, why not? I don't really care about my personal opinions. I try not to have them. But I let go just for fun. Just opinions, what does it really matter to any one, even yourself?
I'm just sure what conditioning opinions out of me is going to do, but it's happening. At least I believe that i believe that it is.
I'm all for a new villain in the next game. The Voodoo lady seems like the obvious direction with the the last game's ending and I think it would be a fun twist if she used LeChuck as a slave. I can't imagine what her goal would be but I'm sure the writers will come up with something good.
I'll be happy if LeChuck takes a back seat next time. He has been a great villain for the series but the dude has a completely one track mind, everything he does is to be with Elaine and defeat Guybrush. The writers have done a great job coming up with different ways to tell this story but I think it has run its course. New villain, new direction please.
I've heard people mention this before, and I just can't see it working, for several reasons.
See, Murray has always been characterized as over-ambitious and zealous, but unable to act upon those traits due to his current position (being just a skull). The whole situation/scenario is hilarious because it's so absurd. And his actualposition that he's in is half what makes the character so hilarious and so likable. If he weren't in his unfortunate position as 'just a skull', then I'm afraid things would just feel strange - Murray's characteristics and personality have been built and shaped around his circumstances/position/situation. So, if he were to be put in a different position (i.e. given a body, and placed in a role where he's meant to be a 'threat'), then I'm afraid all of things that make up Murray's character would simply feel out-of-place.
Also, due to the way he's been characterized, Murray does not feel the least bit threatening... at all. We, as the audience, have been laughing at him since the moment we saw him. He laugh at him because he's completely incapable of doing anything that he wants to, or anything that he says he's going to do. He's a 'silly' sort of character, like the dart players, the figurehead, Mancomb Seepgood, Marco de Pollo, the lookout, Jumbeaux LaFeet - he's placed in the story for comedy and little else. So, if he were to be elevated to the role of 'main villain', that whole game would just feel way too frivolous, absurd, and the whole thing would just seem like one big joke. Murray isn't a character that can be taken seriously, and if he were to be put into a role where he was meant to be taken seriously, then the whole thing would just feel incredibly forced and far-fetched.
All-in-all, it simply wouldn't work. Murray is a great character to be used as a mouth for funny dialogue, a tool for interesting puzzles (as an inventory item), and occasionally as a minor character with a small significance in the story, but nothing else.
Basically, it would destroy his well-established character and turn him into something that's not very interesting or funny anymore. He is much better as a minor regular that comes back as a comic relief or part of a puzzle.
Ozzie was a lame excuse for a villain, they tried introducing a new antagonist but it just didn't have the charisma of LeChuck.
I'm not willing to let LeChuck go because I'm still waiting for a game where appearances by LeChuck transmit the sense of "dread" and eerieness that we saw in MI2. ToMI was great with the character but there wasn't really a sense of threat. That's the lift LeChuck needs... Being fearsome. (In the last games he has become to much of a goof)
A person's goals and desires change throughout life, so there's no reason why LeChuck's goals cannot change a bit throughout his "unlife".
In ToMI we experienced so much dramatism with main characters, but LeChuck always seems cardboard (his undead form atleast). Give LeChuck more depth, develop his past a bit more, etc. There's still so much to be done with him, it only needs thinking outside the box.
I'm not willing to let LeChuck go because I'm still waiting for a game where appearances by LeChuck transmit the sense of "dread" and eerieness that we saw in MI2. ToMI was great with the character but there wasn't really a sense of threat. That's the lift LeChuck needs... Being fearsome. (In the last games he has become to much of a goof)
Yeah, but, as some of us have already said, in order to achieve this, LeChuck must have a brief absence. The character is bound to lose the same creepy feel if he's included in five consecutive games, and is defeated the same amount of times.
As has been said, the guy needs a break, and then he needs to be brought back at an unexpected moment in time where he catches both the audience and the other MI characters off-guard.
In the spur of the moment I voted LeChuck, because it's what I am used to and I didn't really think it through. But as I see it now, having him coming back and do the same all over again is really going to be dull.
So yeah, I agree with Hayden, there needs to be a new villain. A new change of pace, the whole rule the sea and have Elaine as my wife is getting old. If they have to bring him back, then they should change his motive a little like they did in Revenge, where all he could think about was to destroy Guybrush.
Maybe both LeChuck and Guybrush will get the same goal, to get out of the plans The Voodoo Lady has for them, as she seems to have some. And they have to work together at some point, even if they don't like each other.
So he can still be the main Evil, but still at the same time Guybrush has other things to struggle with, like in Tales where he had to get away from a crazy scientist. That was something different, and I really liked DeSinge.
Or as said, bring him back in the end as a surprise, like when Guybrush is finally going to destroy the the other evil person LeChuck shows up or something like that.
Governor Phatt is way too fat (geddit) to even get out of bed, so that would be a bad choice for a main villain. He would have to control everything from a distance, all throughout the game. I don't see how the final "battle" will work.
Comments
Uhm, I guess I just have to strongly disagree on that one. The Monkey Island universe is just about unique enough and interesting enough to warrant several games. It's not the characters alone that makes the games so good, it's the world it's set in. Guybrush and co aren't universal characters that could be used for anything. They're pretty tied to their universe. Monkey Island isn't a generic pirate setting, it's got its own personality and unique ideas to it.
Indinana Jones series doesn't really have a universe. It's all about the characters, and the setting is the real world as it was at that time it's set in, with a little supernatural elements thrown in (usually at the end) for good measure. I don't know Space Quest enough to comment on that.
Basically, Monkey Island is the character and the universe combined. Guybrush or LeChuck wouldn't really work in anything but Monkey Island. And besides, it's still in the Monkey Island universe regardless of which of the main characters we control.
I agree with StarEye on this one. I think that the Monkey Island certainly has potential for a lot more exploring, whether that be in the main series; searching it through Guybrush, or in potential/hypothetical spin-off games (which I'm hoping will be created some time in the future - I still think a Morgan LeFlay spin-off would be a great idea).
The Monkey Island universe, from what we've seen, is immensely interesting and quite diverse. We've already come across so many different and interesting places which share very different scenery and atmospheres: Scabb, Plunder, Spinner Cay, Monkey itself, Phatt - no two of these locations are similar, but they're all wonderful locations. So, after seeing dozens of diverse and interesting locations such as these, there's no reason why more can't be introduced; things haven't even begun to get repetitive yet, so that means that the introduction of more new things is welcome.
Monkey Island is naturally a franchise in which there aren't many restrictions; it's set in a strange, absurd, interesting, nonsensical world where things where anachronisms are welcome, things don't always have to be serious or believable, and stuff doesn't always have to make sense. It's like Discworld, in a way. For sure, that's only set in one place - the disc - but look how many books have come from it; how many different stories have been painted using that particular background. The Monkey Island world, like the Discworld, is a world in which there is so much room for creativity. This is why we've seen talking monkeys, voodoo, communist pirate communities, zombies, fat dictators, giant monkey heads, pirate barbers, giant manatees, talking skulls, mermaids - the opportunities are infinite in a world like this; there is always going to be a story that can be told, and it can be told well even without a character like Guybrush. Why? Because the world is interesting and it has depth.
I remember reading 'Colour of Magic', the first Discworld novel. I loved it; I thought it was great, partially because of how great the characters were. I then began reading 'Mort'. I didn't think it was going to be as good because it wasn't going to feature characters like Rincewind (as main characters, anyway), but I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was just as good, because the story was told in such an interesting world, which is what the Monkey Island world is like.
In fact, there is even more freedom in the MI world because, unlike Discworld, the physical boundaries of the world are not even mentioned or set in place. This means that the writers of MI don't have to come up with new ideas to take place in the same environments; they can expand upon the universe as much as they like. We may not have even begun to scratch the surface of the Monkey Island world.
There are no boundaries in the Monkey Island world, in both senses - no literal borderlines, and no major restrictions when it comes to writing. And, honestly, there are just an infinite amount of possibilities; there is an incredible amount that can still be explored in this world, I don't even know where to begin. There is so much cultivating that can still be done to the locations we have already seen, and then there's all of the locations we haven't seen.
"It doesn't have a universe interesting or deep enough to be worth exploring out of Guybrush's context.", I just completely disagree.
In my opinion (and I don't find nothing wrong with that) MI universe is, well, a spoof universe. I suppose, there are different kinds of spoof universes. MI world is one which cannot exist as a seeming universe without constantly expanding it's borders. Each island in MI games is designed for specific puzzle/plot and JOKE/spoof purposes, and is a one-shot island, so to speak. EMI kinda proved it, you know. Lucre Island and Jambalaya Island are very good and interesting locales (which also do serve the plot well, and if we don't mind several bizarre puzzles which, frankly, each MI game regrettably has, they're very good). Melee Island - boring, Monkey Island - crap.
Melee Island wasn't changed much. Yeah, kinda something happened there, kinda something new (though mostly a lot of SoMI stuff was just cut), but, really, with the reuse of the old SoMI locales Melee Island was just a rehash of SoMI's Melee Island (and SoMI's Melee had every inch of it's land used for puzzles/plot/jokes) - it's just that few new things can be done there (and they weren't planned and the universe isn't suited for it). Now, Monkey Island in EMI has a lot of changes... and it was kind of crap. They were forced to shoehorn in changes and puzzles to the island which wasn't designed or suited for these changes and puzzles, and that's why it failed. MI universe is not flexible.
You can say that we revisited Scabb island in MI2 and Flotsam Island in ToMI... True. The thing is, they were specifically designed to be revisited (and also ToMI has the advantage of Ch1 having crappy jungle puzzles, making the actually good jungle puzzle in Ch4 feel fresh). But now... would it really be interesting to visit Scabb and Flotsam again? Is there something new to be done there? Yeah, if you shoehorn the changes. But why do that when you create a new island for a lot better experience?
Of course, you can set it 50-70 years later, and it may become more interesting. It may give a sense of being one universe, but, heck, other than to have references to old MI games there will be no real point or purpose.
You know, there are other games like MI, like Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island or Jack Keane to name a few. They can be hypothetically set in the same universe for what we know (though in case of Jack Keane it's a little bit in the future with a little use of some real-world localse), but... they kinda aren't. And I admire MI for having this unique property of being unlimited (it really is, you can create as many islands you want), but it doesn't give it any kind of depth. Just quantity. It's not bad. But without Guybrush, why it has to be set in the MI universe? Why would a new/old character would have to revisit old locales? Just for some references? Are references really worth it? Is there some juice left in the old islands which is not drawn out? New islands, maybe. But what old character is REALLY worthy enough to be a PC (bar Winslow
EDIT: PS. I can't really argument anything regarding Discworld, as I haven't read any of Terry Pratchet's works and didn't play any of the games based on his works.
Now, with LeChuck as a main character, there could be some experimentation going on, and personally I'd love to see him have a couple of unique abilities like ones we get in the Kyrandia series. For example, if he's a ghost, one of his abilities could possibly to walk through doors (no more "this door is locked, let's find the key or way to enter" kind of puzzles). Of course, if he's just recently ressurrected, he's not quite as powerful as before, thus he needs to learn his skills from scratch, so we don't have all his skills from the start. Aquiring these skills could very well be the the main part of the game. If I were to design this game, I would design this part like Part II in MI2 (The Four Map Pieces). All new islands, and of course the puzzles would have to be built around his persona. His way of solving things would usually be much more sinister. Not go around killing everything that comes in his way because he's still not quite as strong as he used to be. He's getting old, and being killed so many times has to take its toll on his overall condition. Voodoo is basically more or less what's keeping the guy from falling apart, and he just doesn't have quite enough of it at the start of this hypothetical game.
I really want to play as LeChuck at some point. Because I find his character interesting enough to expand on. Expanding on LeChuck as a character isn't even something new in Monkey Island. We heard about how he deliberatly broke Minnie Goodsoup's heart. We heard about how he got back from the Crossroads. We even heard of LeChuck's "adventures" in EMI. He's obviously been through a lot, so adventuring isn't really something new for him either. It's not like he just sits in a corner waiting for the big showdown between him and Guybrush in every game. There's a lot of potential for a good story. I want to control LeChuck and see what he does to make his sinister plan happen. He's not a lazy character, he travels a lot, and makes stuff happen in his own way. I want to be part of his plotting and planning and making it happen for once.
That said, and I think I speak for most of use now, I would be very happy with any new Monkey Island game, regardless of who the new main character is, as long as it's a well-established one. Personally, I don't think Morgan is established enough to be well recieved as a main character yet. Either Elaine or LeChuck, preferably LeChuck.
I'm really liking the idea of using the essence of LeChuck to make new villians for Guybrush, although I hope its not like in Season 1 of sam and max where its like different parts of his personality.
"Face the horror that is LeChuck's foot!" :P
But that is just wishful thinking. However tell me what you think of the idea.
Cheers!!
Well, I've never been a fan of crossovers, myself. So I actually think that it would result in everything feeling way too out of place and... strange. Just because they're two great series of games, it doesn't mean they're going to gel very well. Chocolate and pizza are both great foods, but I can't imagine they'd be great eaten together; it's the same things with games.
That's just me, though. I'm sure there are other users here that would love the idea, but I personally don't.
Welcome to the forums, by the way
You mean like getting to know the characters better and their past or do you mean like you want it to expand outside the Caribbean sea?
I think a new vilian might help us learn more about the characters. What more is there to learn about Guybrush and Elaine from Lechuck?
I personally don't know if Lechuck is a character that is as much explorable, do we really want to know more about him, relate to him, make him more human to us? Guybrush and Elaine, on the other hand are no brianers. I think they may benefit from a new vilian, protagonist .
But I think we can have more of him... and expand on him being an evil monster.
I agree. If done in the right way, we can all learn more about him, and see his true evil. I wouldn't want to relate to him either. He's the bad guy. He should stay that way.
Then in the 4th they even had him doing politics...
What more can they possibly do, and off of that the protangonist and angtonigst , what more can they have there? There's nothing more we could learn about the character of Guybrush and Elaine in relationship to Lechuck...
The fith game did a great job in finishing it off and giving us just about everything else imaginable out of their relationship. We saw a side of guybrush and elaine that we hadn't seen before. The game was brilliant! But the horse has been rode and even given wings by now...it's even be flogged as it layed their dead with flies on it to keep moving on forward....
As much as nostalgia serves a interest in the characters of the franchised, cherished memories and all of that great stuff...when you get down to it old Lechuck is getting pretty generic, boring, expected...atleast the fith game mixed it up a little...
What more is there? He tries marrying Elaine...he makes Elaine his demon bride in five...He becomes human, he becomes a ghost, he becomes a zombie, he has ridiculus but brilliant plan...he has ridiculus and stupid plan...seriously that ship has sailed and been sunk so many damn times....same old horizion that was never sailed into...it's time to pick up the high tide winds and go some place new...on a ship that literally has some life on it instead of some new form of lechuck which probably won't add anything new to the franchise but another example of how flat and forced his character really is...
His character does little to nothing for Guybrush now, makes him flat, gives him less dynamic, same with Elaine. TTG was smart to approach it like they did giving the game some life, almost making it like a movie by bringing in new characters to help the ship from sinking!
Even Lucas arts knew this was true, hence Ozzie and hence him being a little tool in 4...he needs other supporting characters to make a decent game, a game others are willing to make. Just look at the 5th game!...
What saves CMI is the new life it brings to the franchise, the almost like you're playing a Disney movie feeling...sort of rebirthed things with voices, beautiful animations...GREAT supporting characters closely involved with Guybrush.Such as the famous Murray...
This is most likely why Lechuck was in the 5th game most of it but literally avoided as he wasn't actually in his lechuck form for most of the game...
human enough for you?
But I think that's already done in sam and max.
Cheers!!
I rather have something like Elaine's "curse" coming back and her being the vilian and Guybrush having face off against her without destroying her, that would have a lot of emotion, comedy, substance over all to it...
This is it! Sensational reappearance of Ozzie Mandrill!!
I see... so he's *not* Luke's father?! :eek:
I do miss Ozzie.
So, I don't have a problem with young Anakin being a whiny kid.
Ghost would be a good way.
I suck at arguing my point. OK, So...
I meant if we were to see LeChuck's past or something in order to learn more about him, then it should be about how cruel and evil a man he was before dying. It shouldn't be about why he's being cruel and evil.
One of the things I truly adore about LeChuck's Revenge is that LeChuck really is evil. He stops at nothing to get his own back on Threepwood. And you know what? I love the ending of Revenge too, quite simply because it implies that LeChuck won. He got Threepwood in the end. He didn't kill him, but instead sort of trapped him for his amusement. (This is my take on the ending - I appreciate that it's a whole other subject, but I figured it was kind of relevent in this case as I was pointing out that LeChuck works great as a main evil character and that is where he should stay).
For fear of beginning to repeat myself I will finish by saying in short I do think that we have more to explore on LeChuck, and I do think he should stay the main evil character. He just needs to come back bigger and badder than ever.
I'm just sure what conditioning opinions out of me is going to do, but it's happening. At least I believe that i believe that it is.
I'll be happy if LeChuck takes a back seat next time. He has been a great villain for the series but the dude has a completely one track mind, everything he does is to be with Elaine and defeat Guybrush. The writers have done a great job coming up with different ways to tell this story but I think it has run its course. New villain, new direction please.
He's sick and tired of the abuse and has been plotting his revenge for years ..
No. And here's why.
I'm not willing to let LeChuck go because I'm still waiting for a game where appearances by LeChuck transmit the sense of "dread" and eerieness that we saw in MI2. ToMI was great with the character but there wasn't really a sense of threat. That's the lift LeChuck needs... Being fearsome. (In the last games he has become to much of a goof)
A person's goals and desires change throughout life, so there's no reason why LeChuck's goals cannot change a bit throughout his "unlife".
In ToMI we experienced so much dramatism with main characters, but LeChuck always seems cardboard (his undead form atleast). Give LeChuck more depth, develop his past a bit more, etc. There's still so much to be done with him, it only needs thinking outside the box.
Yeah, but, as some of us have already said, in order to achieve this, LeChuck must have a brief absence. The character is bound to lose the same creepy feel if he's included in five consecutive games, and is defeated the same amount of times.
As has been said, the guy needs a break, and then he needs to be brought back at an unexpected moment in time where he catches both the audience and the other MI characters off-guard.
So yeah, I agree with Hayden, there needs to be a new villain. A new change of pace, the whole rule the sea and have Elaine as my wife is getting old. If they have to bring him back, then they should change his motive a little like they did in Revenge, where all he could think about was to destroy Guybrush.
Maybe both LeChuck and Guybrush will get the same goal, to get out of the plans The Voodoo Lady has for them, as she seems to have some. And they have to work together at some point, even if they don't like each other.
So he can still be the main Evil, but still at the same time Guybrush has other things to struggle with, like in Tales where he had to get away from a crazy scientist. That was something different, and I really liked DeSinge.
Or as said, bring him back in the end as a surprise, like when Guybrush is finally going to destroy the the other evil person LeChuck shows up or something like that.