WTF is the NGP? Neo-Geo Portable? Or is that what they're calling the new PSP? Either way, unless it has Pokemon, I'm buying the 3DS.
I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan.
It's weird how they use an abbreviation as a word in another abbreviation though.
...They don't. It's Next Generation Portable. I think your arguments would make more sense if you actually took the time to know what you were talking about.
So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!
It's just my preference man, if you need any logical basis I just might simply offer you a bad hand-eye coordination and lack of the sense of multitasking.
It's just my preference man, if you need any logical basis I just might simply offer you a bad hand-eye coordination and lack of the sense of multitasking.
...you're going to have to reword that, because I honestly don't know what you're saying here.
I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan.
I proudly got a GBA just for Pokemon Ruby. I proudly got a GCN just for Paper Mario 2. I proudly got a DS just for Mario and Luigi 2. I would proudly buy the 3DS for Paper Mario 4 if it wasn't for the shitty battery time. Nobody cares if a game changes its mechanics if what it has works and is fun, spankyouverymacho. What do you want Pokemon to do? Make its next game about basketball?
So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!
Nobody gives a damn about your fricking logic. GTFO. I'm a graduate of the Mugen school of thought.
...They don't. It's Next Generation Portable. I think your arguments would make more sense if you actually took the time to know what you were talking about.
I'm sorry for assuming stuff as a human being and just following a simple logic of "It's a Playstation, it's coming right after Playstation Portable, now why in the hell they're omitting the product series name Playstation?". Admittingly I was wrong but it doesn't mean I don't read jackshit.
...you're going to have to reword that, because I honestly don't know what you're saying here.
What I'm saying is I prefer simple control designs over having 4 shoulder buttons+multitouch screen+2 analog sticks+D pad and the classic triangle/X/circle/square and it doesn't make me less of a gamer.
I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan.
Well, the 3DS is confirmed backward compatible with DS games, so I'll be able to play those on it too, plus there's the obligatory 3DS Zelda title, Harvest Moon, Cooking Mama etc. And there'll be like about 4 'proper' Pokemon games, plus at least two spinoff lines and there'll probably be a new spinoff especially for the 3DS where Pokemon frolic around ONLY IT'S IN 3D NOW. What can I say, I'm a license whore, even when their latest batch of 'new' Pokemon look almost entirely retarded. BUT IT'S IN 3D.
The only PSP game I ever liked was Loco Roco. I did want one when they came out because one of my friends had one that was modded to run emulators and playing ScummVM on a portable system was awesome. But now I can do that on my DS with a flash cart, which makes the whole thing moot.
You obviously need the Power Back. Bulky, but it helps with the battery issue.
It does, but I found that I still only got about four hours out of it. The best accessory I ever got for the Game Gear was the AC Adapter. Which kinda takes the point out of it being 'portable' but what the heck.
Yeah, I used to want a Nomad SO BAD when I was little. Now I have one and it sits in a drawer while I scorn it and play Genesis games on my PSP.
One of my friends has a Multi-Mega, the Megadrive + Mega-CD + portable CD player! Apparently it was a terrible CD player and the battery life was even worse than the Game Gear. But I still want one because it will take up less room than a Mega-Drive + Mega CD. (ha ha, I say that like I'd actually get rid of them after getting one...)
I'm sorry for assuming stuff as a human being and just following a simple logic of "It's a Playstation, it's coming right after Playstation Portable, now why in the hell they're omitting the product series name Playstation?". Admittingly I was wrong but it doesn't mean I don't read jackshit.
..because it's a codename, not some sort of final retail name. Final information about branding and the like is generally revealed far closer to release. Now, NGP may be the final name(see codename "DS" becoming the official name), but generally speaking temporary early naming("Dolphin", "Revolution", etc) is just that.
It also doesn't help that you had no idea that the machine had multitouch, when every single demo they showed contained a prominent usage of the feature, which pretty heavily implies that you haven't really been paying attention and your reactions are knee-jerk and without factual basis.
What I'm saying is I prefer simple control designs over having 4 shoulder buttons+multitouch screen+2 analog sticks+D pad and the classic triangle/X/circle/square and it doesn't make me less of a gamer.
Simple control designs like...?
How much simpler should this device be?
Your description doesn't fit any existing or proposed device, by the way. The NGP has two shoulder buttons, not four. You're missing a good portion of inputs. Your description is also a device that is less complex, input-wise, than any modern handheld on the market, including the DSi and 3DS. You're literally to the point where, to become simpler, our next handheld should have the same inputs as the Gameboy Advance.
..because it's a codename, not some sort of final retail name. Final information about branding and the like is generally revealed far closer to release. Now, NGP may be the final name(see codename "DS" becoming the official name), but generally speaking temporary early naming("Dolphin", "Revolution", etc) is just that.
It also doesn't help that you had no idea that the machine had multitouch, when every single demo they showed contained a prominent usage of the feature, which pretty heavily implies that you haven't really been paying attention and your reactions are knee-jerk and without factual basis.
I know it's a codename, I just said that. Whatever the situation is the first assumption of anyone would be the same as mine so just I'M SORRY for not reading the first paragraph of ANY ARTICLE that's given to me to read, geez, just can't you get this over with already?
I read about its compatibility and ease at running PS3 titles, I read about its size, I read about the other analog stick, 3G, screen, well damn it, I wasn't one of those people in the press conference and I didn't get informed by a credible source so went butt-in into the thread because of just this detail. So there I say it, do you want to know more things about my life as an internet lurker or shall we proceed with second base?
Your description doesn't fit any existing or proposed device, by the way. The NGP has two shoulder buttons, not four. You're missing a good portion of inputs. Your description is also a device that is less complex, input-wise, than any modern handheld on the market, including the DSi and 3DS. You're literally to the point where, to become simpler, our next handheld should have the same inputs as the Gameboy Advance.
Are you kidding me? Thing is a mess. You have all those buttons I refered to (except the two that you unneededly corrected) scattered around everywhere except the back label of the console, plus all the tilting and stuff. Now, I know not every game just have to use all those buttons now that they're available, but I expressed that I wouldn't think that a game responding to each of those available ways of input wouldn't be such a good idea because, well, it's complex. Imagine playing a God of War sequel where your tilting of the console actually helps your aim or your touchscreen inputs delivering combo attacks to other enemies, on top of every other button you use while playing any other God of War game. Maybe my example is just too extreme and maybe the representation of this idea can be done with a game containing a slower gameplay and it may be less convoluted to play that thing in the end, but you should not deny it offers so many possibilities it's chaotic.
About the fact that you just said "lol your description fits nothing" just because I sometimes like using mild exaggerations in my typing such as "4 shoulder buttons etc", I just have to say you're just overly nitpicking now for the sake of having a chance to respond in an enraged way to anything.
One of my friends has a Multi-Mega, the Megadrive + Mega-CD + portable CD player! Apparently it was a terrible CD player and the battery life was even worse than the Game Gear. But I still want one because it will take up less room than a Mega-Drive + Mega CD. (ha ha, I say that like I'd actually get rid of them after getting one...)
Yeah, I've seen what one of those looks like. I actually took the 32X off my Genesis because the thing just looked ridiculous, and I didn't like having to figure out where to plug in two huge adapters to play my Genesis when I didn't even like any of the 32X games anyway. But hey, other than the AV cable that goes between the two systems, the whole 32X setup and games were all free, so who am I to complain? But yeah, I can only imagine trying to find a decent place to set up a Sega CD 32X.
You know, just thinking about this, they thought that was a good idea back in the day. Maybe in the future humanity can get to a phase where people thinks it's downright ridicilous that we thought it was a good idea to "sequelize" gaming platforms or trying to sell cellphones/handheld consoles that have one more function than the previous one that just released a month before.
I hope I live enough to see the Angry Video Game Nerd of the future.
Eh, it might've been a good idea if it hadn't been released with pretty much the worst timing in the history of console releases. Also, if the Powersquid had been invented yet. You saw the AVGN trying to plug that thing into a power strip. Not pretty.
I know it's a codename, I just said that. Whatever the situation is the first assumption of anyone would be the same as mine so just I'M SORRY for not reading the first paragraph of ANY ARTICLE that's given to me to read, geez, just can't you get this over with already?
It would be easier to get over if you would stop making claims on things, as though they were fact, based on assumptions rather than on the actual fact of the matter. If you say "it's weird they did X", it would be nice if you actually knew they did "X" first.
I read about its compatibility and ease at running PS3 titles, I read about its size, I read about the other analog stick, 3G, screen, well damn it, I wasn't one of those people in the press conference and I didn't get informed by a credible source so went butt-in into the thread because of just this detail. So there I say it, do you want to know more things about my life as an internet lurker or shall we proceed with second base?
So, you were wrong on that count. That's fine. That's all you needed to say. "I was wrong because I wasn't properly informed" is pretty simple to say and understand.
Are you kidding me? Thing is a mess. You have all those buttons I refered to (except the two that you unneededly corrected)
Uneededly isn't a word, you're looking for "needlessly". And it was factually inaccurate.
scattered around everywhere except the back label of the console, plus all the tilting and stuff. Now, I know not every game just have to use all those buttons now that they're available, but I expressed that I wouldn't think that a game responding to each of those available ways of input wouldn't be such a good idea because, well, it's complex. Imagine playing a God of War sequel where your tilting of the console actually helps your aim or your touchscreen inputs delivering combo attacks to other enemies, on top of every other button you use while playing any other God of War game. Maybe my example is just too extreme and maybe the representation of this idea can be done with a game containing a slower gameplay and it may be less convoluted to play that thing in the end, but you should not deny it offers so many possibilities it's chaotic.
Your proposed system here doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't work, but there's no point where, in a God of War game, where aiming is necessary. Your example fails to illustrate a system that could exist within its genre, let alone
About the fact that you just said "lol your description fits nothing" just because I sometimes like using mild exaggerations in my typing such as "4 shoulder buttons etc"
...adding two buttons is a crazy satirical exaggeration?
You fail to show how your ideas have any real merit. If they do, then the 3DS is also doomed, as it has(drumroll please):
2 less points of input.
NGP-exclusive inputs are in Bold
NGP:
-1 Mutlitouch OLED screen(better than, but not more than, the DS's touch LCD)
-1 Multitouch pad(back)
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Analog(2)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons(2)
-Microphone(2, though one is for noise cancellation, not input)
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(2)
3DS:
-Touch LCD
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons
-Microphone
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(3)
On the whole, nobody is making "simple" handhelds anymore. The "stupidity" and "overcomplexity" is not a fight against one device, but both major devices.
Still, if both major handhelds are inherently flawed out the gate, then the new PSP doesn't have to worry as much about its handicap, as Nintendo was gracious enough to handicap their own handheld with needless inputs as well.
I just have to say you're just overly nitpicking now for the sake of having a chance to respond in an enraged way to anything.
I'm nitpicking because your ideas don't make any sense. I'm not really emotionally involved, and I'm not upset with you in any way, I would just rather not have the thread filled with inaccuracies and assumptions that don't hold any water.
Your proposed system here doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't work, but there's no point where, in a God of War game, where aiming is necessary.
This did not make any sense (it works but it does not?!), even moreso than the rest of your post, I'm just saying this and not giving you any more of my materials and keeping you from "filling this thread with inaccuracies" "unneededly" which you claim to hate but repeat on doing for some reason.
No, see, it's not that it doesn't work(which was your intended implication), but because there is no point where aiming would be necessary, so it's impossible to even *try* to implement the system you suggested. There is no aiming, therefore you can't even try to implement a bad aiming system.
Uneededly was your word, the inaccuracies are your own, I'm attempting to correct them(the factual inaccuracies, not opinions), and I never claimed to hate anything.
No, see, it's not that it doesn't work(which was your intended implication), but because there is no point where aiming would be necessary, so it's impossible to even *try* to implement the system you suggested. There is no aiming, therefore you can't even try to implement a bad aiming system.
Uneededly was your word, the inaccuracies are your own, I'm attempting to correct them(the factual inaccuracies, not opinions), and I never claimed to hate anything.
See, it would actually be possible in a tweaked gameplay engine of God of War. Actually, just add the little detail of "which place you damage an enemy of" and set its trigger to the angle of the position of the console. I just gave the example of God of War to give the idea of an action game you have to connect a bunch of combo attacks simultaneously and asked you to connect the dots, but, no dice. I think you're reading into "facts" too much that you don't really try to tweak them in your mind a little.
That's ironic, my last 3-4 posts were mostly based on either opinions or facts that are too personal, such as "I didn't read into that article that much because I had to poop then forgot about it".
By the way, my usage of "mild" there was simply sarcasm. But I assume today's literal day or else you wouldn't even bother to reply to me for so long. Also, it's "unneededly", not "uneededly", and just because of this occurence you and me had, I guarantee you one day it'll make its day to the dictionary.
So...your system is perfectly possible on the 3DS. Nintendo's handheld is stupid and doomed, too. This whole handheld generation this time through is truly and thoroughly fucked, because you can feasibly have to turn your handheld while pushing buttons.
Facts aren't personal. What articles say, what a device can do, these are facts. They're objective. You can't have personal facts. Personal things, like opinions, are subjective and can't be proven or disproven(though the can be based on illogical thought processes).
As in, you "needlessly" keep going on the same issue over and over? I'd go along and say it doesn't have the same chime, but you'd either complain about how words can't have chimes or list out the aspects to show me the comparison between both words' chime-related details.
It's possible, just never done because most games that use the touchscreen on DS assumes that you use the stylus, therefore leaving only one of your hand available for using the buttons. Since the buttons are all located on the both sides of the console it'll be impossible to use both, so the games are programmed in a way to make use of only with the buttons that are located at one side and not the other. So they don't overcomplicate their games' controls.
On the other hand, you can use all the buttons and the screen of a PSP2 with the usage of both thumbs on the screen (which wouldn't be that practical on DS because the touchscreen of DS is too small to give inputs using a thumb) therefore nothing stops the developers from making a game using all the buttons AND multi-touchscreen AND gyroscope or whatever.
Facts can be personal (not objective but personal), since the fact may be ABOUT a detail of one's personal life, and that was what I meant.
It's possible, just never done because most games that use the touchscreen on DS assumes that you use the stylus, therefore leaving only one of your hand available for using the buttons. Since the buttons are all located on the both sides of the console it'll be impossible to use both, so the games are programmed in a way to make use of only with the buttons that are located at one side and not the other. So they don't overcomplicate their games' controls.
On the other hand, you can use all the buttons and the screen of a PSP2 with the usage of both thumbs on the screen (which wouldn't be that practical on DS because the touchscreen of DS is too small to give inputs using a thumb) therefore nothing stops the developers from making a game using all the buttons AND multi-touchscreen AND gyroscope or whatever.
This is not an obscure accessory. It comes with the device. You are meant to use your thumb with this strap as a stylus. So, again, same issue.
Facts can be personal (not objective but personal), since the fact may be ABOUT a detail of one's personal life, and that was what I meant.
What you're calling a "personal fact" is called being wrong in actual english. Facts are objective pieces of data that can't be personal in any way. It's a fact that you didn't read something. It's a fact that, due to this, you said something that was wrong. These are truths. They aren't personal in any way, they are universal. There isn't a person somewhere in the world who lives in a world in which the fact is that you didn't say something wrong because you actually knew what you were talking about because you stopped to read the information that has been made readily available. Because that didn't happen. There is no subjective existence of facts, you were just wrong, and continue to be objectively, factually wrong.
Correction: the wrist strap used to come with the device. My later-model Lite only has a wrist strap because I saved it when my original DS broke. Not that I'm arguing your point (or getting involved in this shitstorm at all, for that matter).
This is not an obscure accessory. It comes with the device. You are meant to use your thumb with this strap as a stylus. So, again, same issue.
Either way less practical than using a stylus since the thumb gets in the way of your sight, so still games are designed in the way I explained. This is more like for left-handed people that also need to use the d-pad.
What you're calling a "personal fact" is called being wrong in actual english. Facts are objective pieces of data that can't be personal in any way. It's a fact that you didn't read something. It's a fact that, due to this, you said something that was wrong. These are truths. They aren't personal in any way, they are universal. There isn't a person somewhere in the world who lives in a world in which the fact is that you didn't say something wrong because you actually knew what you were talking about because you stopped to read the information that has been made readily available. Because that didn't happen. There is no subjective existence of facts, you were just wrong, and continue to be objectively, factually wrong.
If I were going to make a card of this fact, which has all the significant bits of details and informations regarding it, it would be in the "personal" category. Personal life means the special lifetime portions of someone's life (not OBJECTIVE life), personal belongings mean the belongings of one person (not OBJECTIVE belongings), and personal fact means a fact about a person. See a pattern here?
Either way less practicle than using a stylus since the thumb gets in the way of your sight, so still games are designed in the way I explained. This is more like for left-handed people that also need to use the d-pad.
Practical is the spelling you're looking for.
Also, we're not talking what's practical, apparently. We're talking about what's possible. You want to suggest stupid systems that require 5 different inputs at once, even when nobody ever demoed anything like that. You want to say that because something is possible on the NGP, then it will infect every title on that platform and the controls will suck on every game, therefore the device as a whole is terrible. This is nonsensical, because terrible controls can be designed on any input device. People go for what's practical and what works. There are tons of keys on any given keyboard, but movement is generally mapped to WASD because that's what's practical. I could arbitrarily say I hate keyboards as input methods and PC gaming as a whole because someone could feasibly map walking left to the letter p, right to the capslock key, forward to the spacebar, and backwards to the number 8, but nobody is ever going to do that even though the option is there, because it's not practical. In the same way, we're never going to see an NGP title that actually asks the player to use tilt while pressing buttons and using one or both multitouch surfaces and both analogs all at once. That's absurd. Just because it's possible to do everything at once doesn't mean anybody WILL, just like nobody does the above keyboard example and nobody tasks DS users with using all possible inputs even though such a thing is entirely possible. Because unlike you, game designers aren't intentionally trying to break their own controls for the sake of reinforcing a bias that is based on assumptions that don't make any logical sense.
If I were going to make a card of this fact, which has all the significant bits of details and informations regarding it, it would be in the "personal" category. Personal life means the special lifetime portions of someone's life (not OBJECTIVE life), personal belongings mean the belongings of one person (not OBJECTIVE belongings), and personal fact means a fact about a person. See a pattern here?
You either have a different definition of the word "personal" or the word "fact". A personal fact would be one that applies only to one person, when facts are objective and are true for everyone(which is why they are called facts). I'm not sure if the word you're looking for is "opinion" or "being wrong".
I have nothing to say about your argument but I have to say that the idea of a touchpad on the back of a portable system is pretty interesting. I don't know how useful it'd be in practice, but it's a neat idea
Also, we're not talking what's practical, apparently. We're talking about what's possible. You want to suggest stupid systems that require 5 different inputs at once, even when nobody ever demoed anything like that. You want to say that because something is possible on the NGP, then it will infect every title on that platform and the controls will suck on every game, therefore the device as a whole is terrible. This is nonsensical, because terrible controls can be designed on any input device. People go for what's practical and what works. There are tons of keys on any given keyboard, but movement is generally mapped to WASD because that's what's practical. I could arbitrarily say I hate keyboards as input methods and PC gaming as a whole because someone could feasibly map walking left to the letter p, right to the capslock key, forward to the spacebar, and backwards to the number 8, but nobody is ever going to do that even though the option is there, because it's not practical. In the same way, we're never going to see an NGP title that actually asks the player to use tilt while pressing buttons and using one or both multitouch surfaces and both analogs all at once. That's absurd. Just because it's possible to do everything at once doesn't mean anybody WILL, just like nobody does the above keyboard example and nobody tasks DS users with using all possible inputs even though such a thing is entirely possible. Because unlike you, game designers aren't intentionally trying to break their own controls for the sake of reinforcing a bias that is based on assumptions that don't make any logical sense.
I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.
You either have a different definition of the word "personal" or the word "fact". A personal fact would be one that applies only to one person, when facts are objective and are true for everyone(which is why they are called facts). I'm not sure if the word you're looking for is "opinion" or "being wrong".
I read an article but skipped some of the paragraphs and took a shower.
1- This is personal. This is about me and only about me.
2- This is a fact since it's exactly what happened and noone is able to disprove it, therefore true for everyone.
I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.
So ... what you are saying, essentially, is that Sam and Max Season 3 was terrible because you could use click and drag, WASD and mouse, a gamepad, or any combination of the three at once seamlessly?
How is offering more variety in how you interact with a game a BAD thing? Or are you just making up things to whine about now?
So ... what you are saying, essentially, is that Sam and Max Season 3 was terrible because you could use click and drag, WASD and mouse, a gamepad, or any combination of the three at once seamlessly?
Not the same at all. Because all those gameplay options are meant to be prefered to each other, meaning you're expected to use only one of them. In the end you only need one click of a mouse or 6-7 buttons. In the games that try to be detailed (extreme example, but like QWOP) sometimes a button's work is given to multiple ones and you're expected to use them all to pass through, and all of them.
How is offering more variety in how you interact with a game a BAD thing?
Because no matter the quantity of the varieties you're offered, the main idea is to get you push buttons in correct timing and raising the quantity may decrease the quality, depending on the usage.
Not the same at all. Because all those gameplay options are meant to be prefered to each other, meaning you're expected to use only one of them. In the end you only need one click of a mouse or 6-7 buttons. In the games that try to be detailed (extreme example, but like QWOP) sometimes a button's work is given to multiple ones and you're expected to use them all to pass through, and all of them.
In the demo of NGP, they went into great detail showing how you could use any number of ways to move Nathan around in Uncharted, and it was entirely based on what works best for you as a player. The point of having more input methods is to allow more playstyles to be viable and allow people to play the game the way that works the best for them. Want to move Nathan by using the analogs? Great. Want to tap on the screen to tell him where to go? Cool. Do you want to press a button to jump, or jump using the sixaxis? It's about choice, not about mastering 5 different control schemes and swapping between them all fluidly at all times.
I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.
It's no more complex than its competition. Its competition has a ton of inputs that are possible, that can be done either iteratively or at the same time, that can assign functions to different things. You can press butons. You can use a stylus. You can use your thumb(with a strap). You can speak. With the 3DS, you can tilt or use Augmented Reality Cards, or the pedometer. There are tons of options for input on both the PSP and 3DS. There are tons of options for input for the PC platform, with the vast number of keys on a keyboard and the pointing function of a mouse.
These are all options. What's one or two more, or even one or two that are different than the one or two different ones on the other handhelds? How is it inherently terrible? Going through your logic is like walking through a half-waking dream. You apply negatives to Sony that you don't apply to Nintendo. You create scenarios to support your bias. It's fine to like one thing and not the other, but when your reasons for disliking something are made up, maybe you shouldn't be so vehement about it. Or at least as loud about it.
Maybe if you looked at the actual demos, you'd see what you're expected to do as a player, rather than making up an imaginary version of the system that is EVIL and MEAN and BAD in some vague way, whether or not you actually know what you're talking about when you say how terrible the device is.
I think it looks cool, but right now the whole 3DS and NGP thing has only led me to think about not getting either at all. My GBA and DS will hopefully do me fine until the next generation, and I'll see if I'm more interested in that one.
In the demo of NGP, they went into great detail showing how you could use any number of ways to move Nathan around in Uncharted, and it was entirely based on what works best for you as a player. The point of having more input methods is to allow more playstyles to be viable and allow people to play the game the way that works the best for them. Want to move Nathan by using the analogs? Great. Want to tap on the screen to tell him where to go? Cool. Do you want to press a button to jump, or jump using the sixaxis? It's about choice, not about mastering 5 different control schemes and swapping between them all fluidly at all times.
And this, exactly explains why the discussion turned into this.
The thread was about the significance about the new ways to give inputs by implementing new technologies, such as gyroscope or multi touch OLED screen. Now, the reason why they showed the demo of Uncharted is because it was a tech demo, it was done to show that "it works". Graphics work and new implementions work. But it's almost the same as saying this; you can also try to play the game with your feet and see what happens, it's also a variety. In the end what's accomplished in the game screen is the same, but it does not matter at all since it was a tech demo. It also wouldn't matter because the game wasn't designed for such a variety of gameplay. But will you buy a PSP2 and port of Uncharted just to play the game once more using the touch screen this time? I don't think so. This forces the developers into designing games making use of the screen in a different way to attract people by its own significance. Maybe they'll make some gimmicky touchscreen games like we see on some touchscreen cellphones which will not really attract people other than it using multiple touch inputs. Or, they'll try to make a big game that's making use of it; because if they don't, touchscreen won't have much of a purpose to even be there.
These are all options. What's one or two more, or even one or two that are different than the one or two different ones on the other handhelds? How is it inherently terrible? Going through your logic is like walking through a half-waking dream. You apply negatives to Sony that you don't apply to Nintendo. You create scenarios to support your bias. It's fine to like one thing and not the other, but when your reasons for disliking something are made up, maybe you shouldn't be so vehement about it. Or at least as loud about it.
I try to reflect the things that already happened when companies introduced new consoles utilizing new technologies. Such as Virtual Boy, such as DS, Playstation 1 or CD-i, even. Some failed and some were successful. Now this one introduces new stuff, and new risks I gotta tell.
I only refered PSP2 being pointless when I was talking about it being able to handle high graphics. Rest was only concerns and only time will tell, but you wanted to go deep with my assumptions and I just responded to you. Now you say I create scenarios. Who says I didn't? It's only that I feel like there is a big chance of PSP2 turning out to be a not-as-successful sequel (as PSP wasn't THAT highly acclaimed either) and I gave my reasons. Well, I apologize if you thought I spotted something that'll most definitely be the downfall of Sony or anything.
Hmm, a problem Sony is facing these days is that there already exist many good enough alternatives for mobile entertainment, the iOS devices, Android mobiles, the older handhelds.
Questions are a) how much better is the gaming experience, b) how much will it cost, c) how painless are the development workflow and the distribution channels and d) what does it offer on top of this.
Beeing on a PS3 level sounds impressive but whilst i can see this somehow working out fillrate wise due to a.o. the smaller screensize, i also strongly doubt it number crunching wise, so it won't work out for all type of games. The analog sticks are a big plus as that's what prevents certain genres beeing fun on the multitouch devices, they have their strengths in other genres. I'm curious how well the touchdevice in the background works in practice.
My instant thoughts were, cool gadget, i would love to have some analog stick input but the gadgets i own already are good enough for me right now and i'm curious to see if they have convincing conditions for indie devs as well as an attractive price point. It's the best hardware simply won't be enough these days anymore. If that's their only card then it will fail.
This platform basically takes my favorite things about PSP, my favorite things about DS, and my favorite things about iOS/Android, and merges them into one cohesive pile of awesome. Add in the fact that Sony makes great games, not even counting the 3rd party support they're going to have for the thing, and I'm pretty much salivating for this thing to come out.
With almost everybody picking sides here, I'll just say that I consider getting both a 3DS and a NGP
Also I still can't imagine a use for the touchpad on the back of the NGP...
I'm sure I'll get a 3DS eventually, but as of now, there is nothing about it that makes me want to pay full price for the launch model.
They already showed a game that makes heavy use of the rear touchpad, Little Deviants, and it can also be used in the Uncharted demo they showed for climbing vines, etc.
@Laserschwert
Multitouchinput without covering the display, has its pros and cons.
I just think it's a bit confusing using a touchpad backwards... but well, I don't know what people thought when they had to use a directional pad for the first time.
Comments
My Game Gear mocks your colourless Game Boy, because Sega do what NintenDON'T. For about two hours. Then the batteries die and I need another six AAs.
So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!
You obviously need the Power Back. Bulky, but it helps with the battery issue.
...They don't. It's Next Generation Portable. I think your arguments would make more sense if you actually took the time to know what you were talking about.
Yeah, I used to want a Nomad SO BAD when I was little. Now I have one and it sits in a drawer while I scorn it and play Genesis games on my PSP.
It's just my preference man, if you need any logical basis I just might simply offer you a bad hand-eye coordination and lack of the sense of multitasking.
Nobody gives a damn about your fricking logic. GTFO. I'm a graduate of the Mugen school of thought.
I'm sorry for assuming stuff as a human being and just following a simple logic of "It's a Playstation, it's coming right after Playstation Portable, now why in the hell they're omitting the product series name Playstation?". Admittingly I was wrong but it doesn't mean I don't read jackshit.
What I'm saying is I prefer simple control designs over having 4 shoulder buttons+multitouch screen+2 analog sticks+D pad and the classic triangle/X/circle/square and it doesn't make me less of a gamer.
Well, the 3DS is confirmed backward compatible with DS games, so I'll be able to play those on it too, plus there's the obligatory 3DS Zelda title, Harvest Moon, Cooking Mama etc. And there'll be like about 4 'proper' Pokemon games, plus at least two spinoff lines and there'll probably be a new spinoff especially for the 3DS where Pokemon frolic around ONLY IT'S IN 3D NOW. What can I say, I'm a license whore, even when their latest batch of 'new' Pokemon look almost entirely retarded. BUT IT'S IN 3D.
The only PSP game I ever liked was Loco Roco. I did want one when they came out because one of my friends had one that was modded to run emulators and playing ScummVM on a portable system was awesome. But now I can do that on my DS with a flash cart, which makes the whole thing moot.
It does, but I found that I still only got about four hours out of it. The best accessory I ever got for the Game Gear was the AC Adapter. Which kinda takes the point out of it being 'portable' but what the heck.
One of my friends has a Multi-Mega, the Megadrive + Mega-CD + portable CD player! Apparently it was a terrible CD player and the battery life was even worse than the Game Gear. But I still want one because it will take up less room than a Mega-Drive + Mega CD. (ha ha, I say that like I'd actually get rid of them after getting one...)
It also doesn't help that you had no idea that the machine had multitouch, when every single demo they showed contained a prominent usage of the feature, which pretty heavily implies that you haven't really been paying attention and your reactions are knee-jerk and without factual basis.
Simple control designs like...?
How much simpler should this device be?
Your description doesn't fit any existing or proposed device, by the way. The NGP has two shoulder buttons, not four. You're missing a good portion of inputs. Your description is also a device that is less complex, input-wise, than any modern handheld on the market, including the DSi and 3DS. You're literally to the point where, to become simpler, our next handheld should have the same inputs as the Gameboy Advance.
I read about its compatibility and ease at running PS3 titles, I read about its size, I read about the other analog stick, 3G, screen, well damn it, I wasn't one of those people in the press conference and I didn't get informed by a credible source so went butt-in into the thread because of just this detail. So there I say it, do you want to know more things about my life as an internet lurker or shall we proceed with second base?
Are you kidding me? Thing is a mess. You have all those buttons I refered to (except the two that you unneededly corrected) scattered around everywhere except the back label of the console, plus all the tilting and stuff. Now, I know not every game just have to use all those buttons now that they're available, but I expressed that I wouldn't think that a game responding to each of those available ways of input wouldn't be such a good idea because, well, it's complex. Imagine playing a God of War sequel where your tilting of the console actually helps your aim or your touchscreen inputs delivering combo attacks to other enemies, on top of every other button you use while playing any other God of War game. Maybe my example is just too extreme and maybe the representation of this idea can be done with a game containing a slower gameplay and it may be less convoluted to play that thing in the end, but you should not deny it offers so many possibilities it's chaotic.
About the fact that you just said "lol your description fits nothing" just because I sometimes like using mild exaggerations in my typing such as "4 shoulder buttons etc", I just have to say you're just overly nitpicking now for the sake of having a chance to respond in an enraged way to anything.
Yeah, I've seen what one of those looks like. I actually took the 32X off my Genesis because the thing just looked ridiculous, and I didn't like having to figure out where to plug in two huge adapters to play my Genesis when I didn't even like any of the 32X games anyway. But hey, other than the AV cable that goes between the two systems, the whole 32X setup and games were all free, so who am I to complain? But yeah, I can only imagine trying to find a decent place to set up a Sega CD 32X.
I'm not sure whether it's funny or sad...
You know, just thinking about this, they thought that was a good idea back in the day. Maybe in the future humanity can get to a phase where people thinks it's downright ridicilous that we thought it was a good idea to "sequelize" gaming platforms or trying to sell cellphones/handheld consoles that have one more function than the previous one that just released a month before.
I hope I live enough to see the Angry Video Game Nerd of the future.
So, you were wrong on that count. That's fine. That's all you needed to say. "I was wrong because I wasn't properly informed" is pretty simple to say and understand.
Uneededly isn't a word, you're looking for "needlessly". And it was factually inaccurate.
Your proposed system here doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't work, but there's no point where, in a God of War game, where aiming is necessary. Your example fails to illustrate a system that could exist within its genre, let alone
...adding two buttons is a crazy satirical exaggeration?
You fail to show how your ideas have any real merit. If they do, then the 3DS is also doomed, as it has(drumroll please):
2 less points of input.
NGP-exclusive inputs are in Bold
NGP:
-1 Mutlitouch OLED screen(better than, but not more than, the DS's touch LCD)
-1 Multitouch pad(back)
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Analog(2)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons(2)
-Microphone(2, though one is for noise cancellation, not input)
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(2)
3DS:
-Touch LCD
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons
-Microphone
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(3)
On the whole, nobody is making "simple" handhelds anymore. The "stupidity" and "overcomplexity" is not a fight against one device, but both major devices.
Still, if both major handhelds are inherently flawed out the gate, then the new PSP doesn't have to worry as much about its handicap, as Nintendo was gracious enough to handicap their own handheld with needless inputs as well.
I'm nitpicking because your ideas don't make any sense. I'm not really emotionally involved, and I'm not upset with you in any way, I would just rather not have the thread filled with inaccuracies and assumptions that don't hold any water.
This did not make any sense (it works but it does not?!), even moreso than the rest of your post, I'm just saying this and not giving you any more of my materials and keeping you from "filling this thread with inaccuracies" "unneededly" which you claim to hate but repeat on doing for some reason.
Uneededly was your word, the inaccuracies are your own, I'm attempting to correct them(the factual inaccuracies, not opinions), and I never claimed to hate anything.
See, it would actually be possible in a tweaked gameplay engine of God of War. Actually, just add the little detail of "which place you damage an enemy of" and set its trigger to the angle of the position of the console. I just gave the example of God of War to give the idea of an action game you have to connect a bunch of combo attacks simultaneously and asked you to connect the dots, but, no dice. I think you're reading into "facts" too much that you don't really try to tweak them in your mind a little.
That's ironic, my last 3-4 posts were mostly based on either opinions or facts that are too personal, such as "I didn't read into that article that much because I had to poop then forgot about it".
By the way, my usage of "mild" there was simply sarcasm. But I assume today's literal day or else you wouldn't even bother to reply to me for so long. Also, it's "unneededly", not "uneededly", and just because of this occurence you and me had, I guarantee you one day it'll make its day to the dictionary.
So...your system is perfectly possible on the 3DS. Nintendo's handheld is stupid and doomed, too. This whole handheld generation this time through is truly and thoroughly fucked, because you can feasibly have to turn your handheld while pushing buttons.
Facts aren't personal. What articles say, what a device can do, these are facts. They're objective. You can't have personal facts. Personal things, like opinions, are subjective and can't be proven or disproven(though the can be based on illogical thought processes).
It's possible, just never done because most games that use the touchscreen on DS assumes that you use the stylus, therefore leaving only one of your hand available for using the buttons. Since the buttons are all located on the both sides of the console it'll be impossible to use both, so the games are programmed in a way to make use of only with the buttons that are located at one side and not the other. So they don't overcomplicate their games' controls.
On the other hand, you can use all the buttons and the screen of a PSP2 with the usage of both thumbs on the screen (which wouldn't be that practical on DS because the touchscreen of DS is too small to give inputs using a thumb) therefore nothing stops the developers from making a game using all the buttons AND multi-touchscreen AND gyroscope or whatever.
Facts can be personal (not objective but personal), since the fact may be ABOUT a detail of one's personal life, and that was what I meant.
This is not an obscure accessory. It comes with the device. You are meant to use your thumb with this strap as a stylus. So, again, same issue.
What you're calling a "personal fact" is called being wrong in actual english. Facts are objective pieces of data that can't be personal in any way. It's a fact that you didn't read something. It's a fact that, due to this, you said something that was wrong. These are truths. They aren't personal in any way, they are universal. There isn't a person somewhere in the world who lives in a world in which the fact is that you didn't say something wrong because you actually knew what you were talking about because you stopped to read the information that has been made readily available. Because that didn't happen. There is no subjective existence of facts, you were just wrong, and continue to be objectively, factually wrong.
If I were going to make a card of this fact, which has all the significant bits of details and informations regarding it, it would be in the "personal" category. Personal life means the special lifetime portions of someone's life (not OBJECTIVE life), personal belongings mean the belongings of one person (not OBJECTIVE belongings), and personal fact means a fact about a person. See a pattern here?
Also, we're not talking what's practical, apparently. We're talking about what's possible. You want to suggest stupid systems that require 5 different inputs at once, even when nobody ever demoed anything like that. You want to say that because something is possible on the NGP, then it will infect every title on that platform and the controls will suck on every game, therefore the device as a whole is terrible. This is nonsensical, because terrible controls can be designed on any input device. People go for what's practical and what works. There are tons of keys on any given keyboard, but movement is generally mapped to WASD because that's what's practical. I could arbitrarily say I hate keyboards as input methods and PC gaming as a whole because someone could feasibly map walking left to the letter p, right to the capslock key, forward to the spacebar, and backwards to the number 8, but nobody is ever going to do that even though the option is there, because it's not practical. In the same way, we're never going to see an NGP title that actually asks the player to use tilt while pressing buttons and using one or both multitouch surfaces and both analogs all at once. That's absurd. Just because it's possible to do everything at once doesn't mean anybody WILL, just like nobody does the above keyboard example and nobody tasks DS users with using all possible inputs even though such a thing is entirely possible. Because unlike you, game designers aren't intentionally trying to break their own controls for the sake of reinforcing a bias that is based on assumptions that don't make any logical sense.
You either have a different definition of the word "personal" or the word "fact". A personal fact would be one that applies only to one person, when facts are objective and are true for everyone(which is why they are called facts). I'm not sure if the word you're looking for is "opinion" or "being wrong".
I read an article but skipped some of the paragraphs and took a shower.
1- This is personal. This is about me and only about me.
2- This is a fact since it's exactly what happened and noone is able to disprove it, therefore true for everyone.
So ... what you are saying, essentially, is that Sam and Max Season 3 was terrible because you could use click and drag, WASD and mouse, a gamepad, or any combination of the three at once seamlessly?
How is offering more variety in how you interact with a game a BAD thing? Or are you just making up things to whine about now?
Not the same at all. Because all those gameplay options are meant to be prefered to each other, meaning you're expected to use only one of them. In the end you only need one click of a mouse or 6-7 buttons. In the games that try to be detailed (extreme example, but like QWOP) sometimes a button's work is given to multiple ones and you're expected to use them all to pass through, and all of them.
Because no matter the quantity of the varieties you're offered, the main idea is to get you push buttons in correct timing and raising the quantity may decrease the quality, depending on the usage.
In the demo of NGP, they went into great detail showing how you could use any number of ways to move Nathan around in Uncharted, and it was entirely based on what works best for you as a player. The point of having more input methods is to allow more playstyles to be viable and allow people to play the game the way that works the best for them. Want to move Nathan by using the analogs? Great. Want to tap on the screen to tell him where to go? Cool. Do you want to press a button to jump, or jump using the sixaxis? It's about choice, not about mastering 5 different control schemes and swapping between them all fluidly at all times.
These are all options. What's one or two more, or even one or two that are different than the one or two different ones on the other handhelds? How is it inherently terrible? Going through your logic is like walking through a half-waking dream. You apply negatives to Sony that you don't apply to Nintendo. You create scenarios to support your bias. It's fine to like one thing and not the other, but when your reasons for disliking something are made up, maybe you shouldn't be so vehement about it. Or at least as loud about it.
Maybe if you looked at the actual demos, you'd see what you're expected to do as a player, rather than making up an imaginary version of the system that is EVIL and MEAN and BAD in some vague way, whether or not you actually know what you're talking about when you say how terrible the device is.
And this, exactly explains why the discussion turned into this.
The thread was about the significance about the new ways to give inputs by implementing new technologies, such as gyroscope or multi touch OLED screen. Now, the reason why they showed the demo of Uncharted is because it was a tech demo, it was done to show that "it works". Graphics work and new implementions work. But it's almost the same as saying this; you can also try to play the game with your feet and see what happens, it's also a variety. In the end what's accomplished in the game screen is the same, but it does not matter at all since it was a tech demo. It also wouldn't matter because the game wasn't designed for such a variety of gameplay. But will you buy a PSP2 and port of Uncharted just to play the game once more using the touch screen this time? I don't think so. This forces the developers into designing games making use of the screen in a different way to attract people by its own significance. Maybe they'll make some gimmicky touchscreen games like we see on some touchscreen cellphones which will not really attract people other than it using multiple touch inputs. Or, they'll try to make a big game that's making use of it; because if they don't, touchscreen won't have much of a purpose to even be there.
I try to reflect the things that already happened when companies introduced new consoles utilizing new technologies. Such as Virtual Boy, such as DS, Playstation 1 or CD-i, even. Some failed and some were successful. Now this one introduces new stuff, and new risks I gotta tell.
I only refered PSP2 being pointless when I was talking about it being able to handle high graphics. Rest was only concerns and only time will tell, but you wanted to go deep with my assumptions and I just responded to you. Now you say I create scenarios. Who says I didn't? It's only that I feel like there is a big chance of PSP2 turning out to be a not-as-successful sequel (as PSP wasn't THAT highly acclaimed either) and I gave my reasons. Well, I apologize if you thought I spotted something that'll most definitely be the downfall of Sony or anything.
Questions are a) how much better is the gaming experience, b) how much will it cost, c) how painless are the development workflow and the distribution channels and d) what does it offer on top of this.
Beeing on a PS3 level sounds impressive but whilst i can see this somehow working out fillrate wise due to a.o. the smaller screensize, i also strongly doubt it number crunching wise, so it won't work out for all type of games. The analog sticks are a big plus as that's what prevents certain genres beeing fun on the multitouch devices, they have their strengths in other genres. I'm curious how well the touchdevice in the background works in practice.
My instant thoughts were, cool gadget, i would love to have some analog stick input but the gadgets i own already are good enough for me right now and i'm curious to see if they have convincing conditions for indie devs as well as an attractive price point. It's the best hardware simply won't be enough these days anymore. If that's their only card then it will fail.
Also I still can't imagine a use for the touchpad on the back of the NGP...
I'm sure I'll get a 3DS eventually, but as of now, there is nothing about it that makes me want to pay full price for the launch model.
They already showed a game that makes heavy use of the rear touchpad, Little Deviants, and it can also be used in the Uncharted demo they showed for climbing vines, etc.
Multitouchinput without covering the display, has its pros and cons.
I just think it's a bit confusing using a touchpad backwards... but well, I don't know what people thought when they had to use a directional pad for the first time.