"Citizen Brown" REVIEW thread

12346

Comments

  • edited April 2011
    It's the ripple effect... or a wizard did it.

    700674603_mAVrc-L.jpg
  • edited April 2011
    Scnew wrote: »
    Bleh. Filmmakers retroactively saying that continuity errors that fans notice were right all along don't count.

    It makes sense. Why does that not count?
  • edited April 2011
    "Filmmakers say those don't count" bleh, who are they, my history teacher? If it matters to me and especially keeps me away from the movie itself, it counts. If I still get enough fun from the movie, that's another story.
  • edited April 2011
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gaurro View Post
    it's almost embarassing that nobody here was aware of the major, HUGE plot hole this episode brought to us...Why on earth would only Doc & Ein disappear from the delorean during the time travel back to 1986? Why not Marty as well? Why would it be just Marty unaware of the new timeline and its events if all three of them were on the delorean? How could the delorean still exist if Doc never invented the flux capacitor? Why is the flux capacitor drawing still in Doc's notebook if he never drawn it?

    Nobody? PLENTY of people have been discussing this all over the forum.

    Short answers: Doc disappears because he's almost 100. In the FCB timeline, Doc doesn't live that long. Same reason Biff starts to disappear in the deleted scene in BTTF2.
    The Delorean and all the components still exist, whether or not Doc bought them. Only things that actually wouldn't exist seem to disappear in BTTF logic.
    The flux capacitor drawing may be fading out--most everything else in the notebook has faded out. Not everything fades at the same rate in BTTF. :P

    Yep, Plenty of people have been discussing plot holes on this forum.

    The flux capacitor drawing exists I assume because FCB drew something similar but unfortunately had a meddlesome bitch of a wife to lead him to interpret it as a symbol for a utopian society and not a time travel device.

    Whatever has a counterpart BTTF timelines allow duplicates to exist alongside, providing you haven't compromised your own existence - which Doc and Einstein had done (remember Einstein had been in a suspended animation kennel and Doc had rejuvenation treatment in 2015).

    The Notebook, Delorean et al, still around because there existence was not compromised by the alterations made in 1931 (think of the matches in marty's hand as he burns the almanac, the logo changes the matches still exist), the flux capacitor, hover wheels, mr fusion exist in FCB1986 because since future events are uncertain there's potential their inventors will still invent them - but say for instance Edna shot FCB dead (*dedilidoo noise*) the flux capacitor would vanish.

    I have to say the games been pretty consistent with the BTTF time-line rules, but its hard to really judge because we haven't seen the plot all the way through. The problem always was if you continue a time-travel story that's as much about the characters and plot than the logic behind it, there's always the possibility you might need to compromise those rules.
  • edited April 2011
    lol by the way buzz word today - Compromise ;)
  • edited April 2011
    It makes sense. Why does that not count?

    The film doesn't actually show you that it happened. If we were actually given any sort of visual clue of it happening at all, it wouldn't be a problem. It's still a flaw in the film whether the filmmaker later says "oh yeah no, that was TOTALLY the Biff version of 2015." If it was really something they intended us to assume, they could have had something as simple as Marty walking back to the DeLorean and glancing over and noticing something out of place from the way it was the first time.

    It's sort of like in Star Wars, when Han Solo says that the Falcon "made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs." George Lucas didn't think about wtf that meant, he just thought it sounded cool and science fictiony. Since then Star Wars fiction has found a convoluted way to make that line make sense, but does that make the movie line better?
  • edited April 2011
    Scnew wrote: »
    It's sort of like in Star Wars, when Han Solo says that the Falcon "made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs." George Lucas didn't think about wtf that meant, he just thought it sounded cool and science fictiony. Since then Star Wars fiction has found a convoluted way to make that line make sense, but does that make the movie line better?

    Well, since traveling at lightspeed in Starwars involves plotting a course so that you don't end up flying smack into a planet/moon/asteroid belt then it makes sense that he would boast about completing the Kessel Run in a really short distance.
  • edited April 2011
    Just finished Ep 3 and I liked it - a lot. I think it had the best script and dialogue of the series so far and the first with some nice puzzles. I don't know if I'm just imaging things, but the objects and game locations seem also more detailed than in the previous episodes.

    Really nice and I hope the last two episodes are even better. First two episodes were a bit dissapointig in gameplay, but if the rest are like this or even better, series will be very very good overall.

    Thumbs up!
  • edited April 2011
    doggans wrote: »
    Nobody? PLENTY of people have been discussing this all over the forum.

    Sorry, my bad.
    Either way, everybody seems to give the same (or similar) answers as you, which are flawed and their logic weak.
    I know we all are trying to justify events as they are presented here, but my point is that we shouldn't be supposed to. Not on this scale at least.
    We are searching for answers to a paradox that characters in the movies avoided at all costs... and for a reason.

    daeva0123 gave yet other answers but i find them hard to accept as well.
    -Doc and Einie didn't slowly fade away, they just vanished instantly during the time jump. odd.
    -Duplicates of persons and things are allowed as long as their existence has not been compromised... well, too bad their existence WAS compromised because of the "starting point" (which i'll explain after the quote).
    The Notebook, Delorean et al, still around because there existence was not compromised by the alterations made in 1931 (think of the matches in marty's hand as he burns the almanac, the logo changes the matches still exist)
    The starting point of BttF story is 1985, when the very first time travel took place (a node never been touched or changed up until now with the game). Now we are in FCB1986 and that starting point is unreachable from here since it never happened, it's simply gone. The flux capacitor and all the time travel components belong to that starting point (even if you want to consider the delorean as a duplicate from the future/past or whatever, it still comes from that phantom 1985, that's the root).
    the flux capacitor, hover wheels, mr fusion exist in FCB1986 because since future events are uncertain there's potential their inventors will still invent them - but say for instance Edna shot FCB dead (*dedilidoo noise*) the flux capacitor would vanish.
    Not talking about hover weels and mr fusion, which are both from 20XX and not related to Emmett Brown and the flux capacitor (dated 1985 or sooner), the whole "uncertain future" theory is flawed from the start: it implies that Doc (FCB himself) could still invent the flux capacitor and BUILD it in this timeline, ok... but wait, it's already too late cause that would delay the starting point from 1985 to somewhere in 1986/87 (also an alterative timeline from the original) changing everything. It would be a HUGE paradox, as you can see.
    Because all the time travel components don't belong to this timeline but to that starting point in 1985, a past now definitively lost, they should have disappeared instantly (as well as the Marty we are following since he never traveled in time... yet??), much like the old Doc did, cause he was from an impossible future (unlike those matches you were referring to). Or at least the flux capacitor should have been disassembled during the time jump since Doc never built it, but that would be stupid as well. :D

    Better, if that "uncertain future" justifies the existence of the flux capacitor making time travel still possible, why wouldn't it be applied to the old Doc as well? Maybe FCB will build the flux capacitor and travel to 2015 to have a rejuvenation treatment, who knows?
    You could argue "maybe not!" but it's still "uncertain", you see? Oh well... i guess that's thinking too much.

    Also, who's now that Marty? Where does his knowledge come from? Does he come from an alternative past or an alternative present? laughable.
    He time jumped from 1931 to a present that denies the existence of the time machine for the first time. It's an inextricable paradox... GREAT SCOTT!! it's the end of Space-Time Continuum!!
    It's already hard for me to buy the uncertain future theory but an uncertain past one is simply unacceptable.
    Past is what defines present, present is what defines future. If Doc didn't invent the time machine in 1985, then this Marty must vanish cause nothing brought him there. The only possible Marty is the square one.
    Tell me why should we make a difference between an impossible future (the vanished old Doc) and a past that never was (the actual Marty and his time travels)? They both don't exist.

    As i said before, the time jump from 1931 to 1986 represents the end of everything.
    Messing with the "starting point" is a big mistake. This was made clear from the first movie but Telltale didn't care much about it.
    Talking the movie trilogy, think about BttF part 2 when Doc tells Marty to not interfere with his other self in 1955 cause that would result in a paradox. Doc himself tries to avoid his younger self as much as he can... why would it be acceptable now that they have changed all the time travel thing with Emmett not even being a scientist?

    Telltale screwed things up, it's a fact. You can't just respect one rule and forget about all the others, including the most important one... it's as simple as that.
    They are humans and they made a mistake, deal with it.

    I'm sorry for the long post guys, but i don't need to argue on this anymore and i won't, cause i hope i made my point. :)

    P.S. You'll see, in the 4th chapter FCB will just repair the delorean to help Marty go back in 1931 like none of those rules ever counted anything... and that's just sad.
  • edited April 2011
    Well, since traveling at lightspeed in Starwars involves plotting a course so that you don't end up flying smack into a planet/moon/asteroid belt then it makes sense that he would boast about completing the Kessel Run in a really short distance.

    But he's not boasting about "my astro-navigation computer is awesome and can plot really precise hyperspace jumps." He's bragging about how fast his ship is, how it can outrun Imperial ships. Thus when they're escaping Tatooine and the star destroyers are catching up to them, Luke even says "I thought you said this thing was fast!" It's like bragging that my car is fast because I can drive to the next town in under 12 miles. All that means is that I know a shortcut. :P If the line made sense, the fiction writers wouldn't have felt compelled to come up with a way to make it make sense.
  • edited April 2011
    I just don't understand why everything had to change in the future for it to make sense. I admit as a kid this confused me, but after I grew up I really didn't see anything being changed around them as being entirely necessary at all. Also, if there was too much convoluted space/time continuum stuff happening people wouldn't be able to follow it. That's why they deleted that scene with Biff disappearing after he returned from the future because people didn't get it. I don't think it's something they just didn't think about. And it makes perfect sense the way it is.
  • dradra
    edited April 2011
    i loved it when i saw that Edna and doc got married i saw like oh man Claire is going the kill him and i loved Jen's punk look i want to do my hair like that but to one thing that sent it over the edge was by far the greatest line in p&c games biff tannen "boobies!" i laughed so hard i fell out of my chair
  • edited April 2011
    Hi guys. I want to say that I read this Thread and enjoyed .
    i did not like this episode so much :(

    but i want to start with the good things first :

    the graphics is Pretty nice :)

    the Characters looks good :)

    the Music is very well and sound is very well too :)
    I can guess that if they got Claudia it is good too , no ?
    and i think thet the all good in this episode in my opinion .

    and for the not so good things in this episode :

    this episode was Boring for me :(
    Many Talks and a few Walks .
    some of this conversations was not Promote the Story even :(
    the city Looks gray and I do not mean the color of the walls of buildings :(
    Here's something that not many referred to this Thread :
    in some conversations between Marty and Jennifer , Jennifer sounds
    A bit cold and robotic. Without a lot of feelings to Marty .
    and Jennifer sounds some time's As a forty years old woman and not As a teenager girl :(
    i dont think thet it is Claudia problem.
    i do think thet it is the Sound director and Sound Man Issue.
    i do not think thet game is bad . but it is no so good so far . but it isnt over yet so Anything can happen .

    and i have some Questions to ask :

    1 ) If Doc did not build the time machine in the Delorean, so how exactly can the Delorean drift?

    2 ) why marty called Martin ?
    3 ) why Edna looks younger and doc looks older then the "original" 1986 ?
    4 ) the same question about George and Lorraine ?

    Last question: The Delorean its a hover car thet have a float action.
    thet float action
    Requires a large thrust force and the car's doors are pushed enough to "jump"
    Up, so why not use the mechanical and physical qualities of the car and fly away from the street sign board without breaking the window of the vehicle?
  • edited April 2011
    2 ) why marty called Martin ?

    'Marty' is a nickname. In the new Hill Valley, it seems that nicknames are out of the question and everybody refers to each other by their first names (or as 'Citizen'). I imagine it's to give the impression of the 'order' that Doc and Edna forced upon Hill Valley.

    In addition, when you finally visit Citizen Brown, he first addresses you as though he viewed you as a file: 'Martin McFly, Age: 18. Resident of Sector L. Father: George, Mother: Lorraine etc.' This shows a significant change in the way personal identity is viewed in the alternate timeline.
    Last question: The Delorean its a hover car thet have a float action.
    thet float action
    Requires a large thrust force and the car's doors are pushed enough to "jump"
    Up, so why not use the mechanical and physical qualities of the car and fly away from the street sign board without breaking the window of the vehicle?


    In terms of the DeLorean, I don't know about you but the car looked pretty totaled when it crashed into the billboard. I can hardly imagine it would be able operate normally.
  • edited April 2011
    Last question: The Delorean its a hover car thet have a float action.
    thet float action
    Requires a large thrust force and the car's doors are pushed enough to "jump"
    Up, so why not use the mechanical and physical qualities of the car and fly away from the street sign board without breaking the window of the vehicle?

    Firstly, it has nothing to do with the car doors. Secondly, the car is trashed, dude. It's not going anywhere.
  • edited April 2011
    "The lack of walking, too much talking..." yes, I have no idea if it's about the animation-design and script or some kind of not wanting to visit the local chiropractor that I've heard was in the area in this time of period. I kind of like Rocking Chairs
  • edited April 2011
    'Marty' is a nickname. In the new Hill Valley, it seems that nicknames are out of the question and everybody refers to each other by their first names (or as 'Citizen'). I imagine it's to give the impression of the 'order' that Doc and Edna forced upon Hill Valley.

    In addition, when you finally visit Citizen Brown, he first addresses you as though he viewed you as a file: 'Martin McFly, Age: 18. Resident of Sector L. Father: George, Mother: Lorraine etc.' This shows a significant change in the way personal identity is viewed in the alternate timeline.


    first : thank you for your answer :)
    How can I argue with someone who is called:"Martin McFly" on this ? :D
    but i dont agree with you so much.
    hi I understand your line of thought, but I think maybe there is more than this formal form.

    Take for example Jennifer and Leech in this matter
    Jennifer Calls Marty :" Martin" . and she dont look like a formal person
    in this episode . more then thet : she looks as rebellious person in this episode. and even she does not believe that this is martin in the opening act of this episode .
    and Leech Calls Marty : "McFly" . just "McFly" . this is not look like as one of the the formal form in this city .
    and more of that : Marty explains to Jennifer in the introduction to Episode 4 that , he is marty mcfly from an alterate time line .
    Here is a link to the movie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqjXltoTyNs&NR=1

    i think that there are two "marty's" in 1986 FCB future.
    one of them his name marty and one of them His name martin
    In terms of the DeLorean, I don't know about you but the car looked pretty totaled when it crashed into the billboard. I can hardly imagine it would be able operate normally.
    Firstly, it has nothing to do with the car doors. Secondly, the car is trashed, dude. It's not going anywhere.

    hi guys thank you for your answers , but i I think I was not clear on this matter so much.

    Yes , i know that The Delorean do not looks in her best at the moment
    but the problems and the malfunctions started before the collision in to the Billboard. and i can say before they left 1931.
    Here is a link to the movie that show that marty losing control on the Delorean in air.
    http://youtu.be/oDsOXIE_Gxw
    so i dont think that this is the problem in this case.
    but if you are right , so how we going to back to the past and change it ?
    i do not see here another Delorean or another time machine around.
    and i do not even think about golf cart as replace to Delorean.
    this cart do 30 to 45 Km/h top ( 18.75 to 28.125 M/h ) this will not going to go as is up to 88 M/h
    and another thing : after watching the movie above , i noticed something quite strange . The first part of This video shows the 1931
    and young emmett and edna and kid Tannen and etc...
    but if you look close you do not see old doc and marty say to Einstein
    some thing like : hey Eini Let go find doc .
    so where is old doc ?
    in the FCB picture old doc near marty. and i know that old doc
    did not was near marty. just young emmett
    he can not be in two Places at the same time !!!!
  • edited April 2011
    I don't understand. If you're saying the problems started before the crash how does that mean he could fly the car out of the billboard?
  • edited April 2011
    Obviously in this alternate timeline Marty is a straight A student who's never in trouble and simply goes by "Martin" rather than Marty. There's not much to it other than that.
  • edited April 2011
    first : thank you for your answer :)
    How can I argue with someone who is called:"Martin McFly" on this ? :D
    but i dont agree with you so much.

    While I still stand by my point regarding formal identification, let me clarify.

    Compare this situation to reality. Let's say you know a girl named 'Alexandra'. When you first introduce yourself to her, she might say 'Hello *insert your name here*, my name is Alex.'. From then on, you now refer to her as 'Alex', her nickname. Now imagine that situation happening with every new person she meets. Most, if not, everyone she meets will refer to her as 'Alex'.

    As you can see, she WANTS you to refer to her by her nickname since she probably dislikes being addressed by her full name.

    Going back to the game, Citizen!Marty is a model student who never had any real problems concerning his real name. He doesn't want to become 'cool' or 'popular' and is completely fine with being called 'Martin'.

    So if Citizen!Marty's going around introducing himself as 'Martin McFly', people will likely refer to him as 'Martin' or, in Leech's case, 'McFly'.

    The bottom line is that Citizen!Marty never wanted a nickname. It's just a matter of preference.
    Yes , i know that The Delorean do not looks in her best at the moment
    but the problems and the malfunctions started before the collision in to the Billboard. and i can say before they left 1931.

    The DeLorean was in fine working condition before the collision. If you watch the video, you'll see that you lose control of the car, not because of operational problems, but because Doc started to panic right before you time travelled.

    After Doc yells 'Stop the car. This could be disastrous!', you hastily turn the wheel of the DeLorean in hopes of avoiding the time travel process. At that point, however, the DeLorean had already hit 88mph and travelled to the new 1985. Since you had sharply turned the wheel during the time travelling process, it makes sense that you lose control of the car when you finally arrive in 1985.

    In conclusion, it was fine until the mishap with the billboard.
  • edited April 2011
    Hmmmm. Criticisms based on lack of common sense? Check. Refusal to accept answers based on common sense? Check.

    Trollface.jpg
  • edited April 2011
    Hey guys, little shameless self promotion. Heh. We'd just really love some more thoughts on our reviews of episode's 1 & 2. And wanted to thank those of you that stopped by the first time that we spoke to.


    As the reviewer for the series I can't wait for Episode 4. While I don't think I could keep up with the folks here debating the films - they were and still remain my favorite of all time. So we've had a blast so far with these games and hope more and more people play them (poor 360 gaming only crowd).

    Anyway - would love to hear your thoughts:

    Get Tannen: http://www.thesystemaddicts.com/reviews/back-to-the-future-episode-two-review

    Citizen Brown http://www.thesystemaddicts.com/reviews/back-to-the-future-episode-three-review
  • edited April 2011
    This thread has gotten wildly off topic. At least the epic release date thread was consistent. :(
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2011
    At least the epic release date thread was consistent. :(

    Btw, if you look again at the release date sticky, you'll see we managed to restore the epic for you. :)
  • edited April 2011
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    Btw, if you look again at the release date sticky, you'll see we managed to restore the epic for you. :)

    Whoa...didn't see that lol. Thanks!
  • edited April 2011
    Scnew wrote: »
    But he's not boasting about "my astro-navigation computer is awesome and can plot really precise hyperspace jumps." He's bragging about how fast his ship is, how it can outrun Imperial ships. Thus when they're escaping Tatooine and the star destroyers are catching up to them, Luke even says "I thought you said this thing was fast!" It's like bragging that my car is fast because I can drive to the next town in under 12 miles. All that means is that I know a shortcut. :P If the line made sense, the fiction writers wouldn't have felt compelled to come up with a way to make it make sense.

    He IS talking about the hyperdrive. It takes a lot less time to plot coordinates and jump then a ship that size normally would. He made illegal modifications to it.

    That's the only way you outrun the Empire. You jump before they destroy you.
  • edited April 2011
    I liked the game towards the end when you meet up with Doc but at the beginning of the ep I found Jennifer to be nigh-on unlikeable.

    Okay so she's changed but she barely even resembles her original character and her clothing & hairstyle was way too "far out" making it seem like the artists got lazy and threw in every cliché punk fashion design. I wonder how Marty even recognised her because I sure wouldn't. So rather than being glad the original Jennifer was back it had the complete opposite effect on me

    Also in general the conversation between Marty & his dad went on far too long, the puzzles were too simple and I would've liked to do more things rather than activating long speeches (I have no argument with the Doc meetup though - that was pleasant & gripping stuff)
  • edited April 2011
    In all honesty. This game could have been a rolling demo and it have suited me 100%.

    You have Back to the Future reborn after 20 years and you require puzzles? Christopher Lloyd beats your puzzles. Eat them.
  • edited April 2011
    xdiesp wrote: »
    You have Back to the Future reborn after 20 years and you require puzzles? Christopher Lloyd beats your puzzles. Eat them.
    I like puzzles! :p
  • edited April 2011
    backslash wrote: »
    I like puzzles! :p

    headline_1244689527.jpg

    Look into his eyes and ask yourself: Do I really NEED puzzles?
  • edited April 2011
    headline_1244689527.jpg

    Look into his eyes and ask yourself: Do I really NEED puzzles?

    Yes! I mean no... I mean... DAMN YOU, SMILING CHRISTOPHER LLOYD!
  • edited April 2011
    However he was even sexier in the previews.
  • edited April 2011
    xdiesp wrote: »
    However he was even sexier in the previews.

    I still expect him to don that outfit at some point. Telltale can't give us a picture like that and expect everyone to forget about it.
  • edited April 2011
    I still expect him to don that outfit at some point.

    I fully expect EP4 to be a rehashing of enviroments like 2, it's the least they can do to reskin the chars. But I'm not so critical with 2, probably newtimers won't even realize what the rage was. I can only guess that from the devs perspective, 1 was free DLC for 2 so standards were lower. :p
  • edited April 2011
    xdiesp wrote: »
    In all honesty. This game could have been a rolling demo and it have suited me 100%.

    You have Back to the Future reborn after 20 years and you require puzzles? Christopher Lloyd beats your puzzles. Eat them.

    What is the world coming to...
  • edited April 2011
    StoutFiles wrote: »
    He IS talking about the hyperdrive. It takes a lot less time to plot coordinates and jump then a ship that size normally would. He made illegal modifications to it.

    That's the only way you outrun the Empire. You jump before they destroy you.

    Let's look at the script.
    BEN
    Yes, indeed. If it's a fast ship.

    HAN
    Fast ship? You've never heard of the
    Millennium Falcon?

    BEN
    Should I have?

    HAN
    It's the ship that made the Kessel
    run in less than twelve parsecs!

    If you could point me to the part of the scene that indicates that Obi-Wan was concerned about making precise hyperspace navigations as opposed to just getting to Alderaan quickly, I would love to see it. Later on...
    LUKE
    What a piece of junk.

    The tall figure of Han Solo comes down the boarding ramp.

    HAN
    She'll make point five beyond the
    speed of light. She may not look
    like much, but she's got it where it
    counts, kid. I've added some special
    modifications myself.

    Again, bragging about how fast it can go, whatever .5 past lightspeed means, not about the navigational computer. Han Solo brags about the Falcon being fast, not about it being efficient.
  • edited April 2011
    Doesn't even matter. Star Wars was a glorious mistake born of an awful initial Lucas script!!
  • edited April 2011
    Awesome episode. Perfect length, can not wait for the next episode! This episode was AMAZING...
  • edited April 2011
    Finally got round to finish the episode. After a very very slow start it turned out pretty good. Story is progressing nicely.
  • edited April 2011
    Finally finished it last night and WOW... was very impressed. I do kind of wish this timeline had been in the films and we had the chance to play through the Biff-run HELL Valley though :P Loved the big scene between FCB and Marty in the office and the last half hour in general. Great to see Jennifer getting more 'screen time' too (and Claudia Wells at that). Not much more than I can really say that people haven't already but well done, Telltale! I did really like the first two episodes but it's good to see the story picking up. I regard this as BTTF IV more than the episodes being BTTF IV-VIII so don't mind the story structure at all.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.