But what he's saying is that the FCB timeline's Marty is very different from the real Marty, just like FCB Doc Brown is very different from the real one. Which kind of screws up your theory that Doc Brown changed and Marty didn't because the universe changed his personality greatly.
But what he's saying is that the FCB timeline's Marty is very different from the real Marty, just like FCB Doc Brown is very different from the real one. Which kind of screws up your theory that Doc Brown changed and Marty didn't because the universe changed his personality greatly.
When someone "disappears" from a timeline, maybe they're not really disappearing, they're being slid sideways into the timeline most appropriate to them due to time stream tampering.
But what he's saying is that the FCB timeline's Marty is very different from the real Marty, just like FCB Doc Brown is very different from the real one. Which kind of screws up your theory that Doc Brown changed and Marty didn't because the universe changed his personality greatly.
Once again the disappearing is because doc is dead by the time he reaches the age he was in the previous timeline in the new timeline, marty is not.
Once again the disappearing is because doc is dead by the time he reaches the age he was in the previous timeline in the new timeline, marty is not.
I'm saying Docs not "disappearing" but shifting sideways in time to a timeline where he is still alive and fits in. That's how Marty can partially disappear and return (BTTF1) without violating too many laws of thermodynamics. And that's why they only disappear when things get ugly, because it's such a great expenditure of energy.
I'm saying Docs not "disappearing" but shifting sideways in time to a timeline where he is still alive and fits in. That's how Marty can partially disappear and return (BTTF1) without violating too many laws of thermodynamics. And that's why they only disappear when things get ugly, because it's such a great expenditure of energy.
at the point of part I, there is no timeline for marty to shift to. The only timeline which has existed, he went back in time from 1985 to 1955 and at that point had not returned.
at the point of part I, there is no timeline for marty to shift to. The only timeline which has existed, he went back in time from 1985 to 1955 and at that point had not returned.
Actually, you could argue that a new timeline was formed the second Marty pushed George out of the way of that car, but I agree with you that Doc disappears because, in choosing law over science, he never invents time travel and never visits that rejuvenation clinic to add 40 years to his life.
How do you know Doc would be dead? Let's say he was 20 in 1931. By 1986 he'd be 75. We know Doc spent a couple years in the 1800's before Marty got there in Part 3, and its been a few more years judging by the ages of his kids. So he'd be what... 85, 90? 95 at most. And you can be damn sure that First Citizen Brown doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, and has access to the best medical care available. Could he die before reaching the age the real Doc Brown is? Sure. Do you know that he does? No. You're inventing reasons for your theory to be true.
How do you know Doc would be dead? Let's say he was 20 in 1931. By 1986 he'd be 75. We know Doc spent a couple years in the 1800's before Marty got there in Part 3, and its been a few more years judging by the ages of his kids. So he'd be what... 85, 90? 95 at most. And you can be damn sure that First Citizen Brown doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, and has access to the best medical care available. Could he die before reaching the age the real Doc Brown is? Sure. Do you know that he does? No. You're inventing reasons for your theory to be true.
Doc spent at least ten years in the 1800s alone prior to the end of part 3 and likely about ten more since then. Plus who knows how long he was gone for at the end of part I after he goes to 2015. So yeah doc would be pushing 100 by now.
Doc spent 8 months in the year 1885 before Marty showed up, at least 10, probably more than that with Clara and kids, and a few more to get Jules & Verne up to around 18(college age). Yeah. Doc would be ancient, and probably dead if not for the rejuvenation clinic.
As for the laws of thermodynamics, that physics. Physics have no place in time travel.
I'm sorry, but the only fifth dimension I know of is the Twilight Zone...
Seriously though, it's explained in the movies that when timelines are altered, they do so around Marty and Doc. So this whole 1985-A Marty taking the place of 1985-B Marty scenario doesn't happen. The only reason Marty runs into himself is that he travels back to 1955-B where he sees himself in his own earlier timeline. Plus, the timeline doesn't change instantaneously, which is why it takes a while for old Biff to disappear after the fact (as seen in the deleted scene). If what you said was true, old Biff never would've disappeared, and he would return to 2015-C. The fact that he does disappear re-enforces the fact that he's changed his own timeline (much like what happened with Doc becoming FCB) instead of creating another carbon copy of himself in another timeline.
Interesting bit of information here, this gives me something to think about.
As we are arguing here I'm not agree with the theory "Doc is dead in that time so he fades away".
So are you telling that if you travel through time after your own death... you are just fading away? Because this theory have to be true in EVERY timeline, not only in alternatives.
And somebody thinks on Einstein? He didn't gone at any rejuvenation clinic. Why does he disappear as well?
Einstein wasn't a puppy in 1985. That much is obvious. And since he's been with Doc since the end of BTTF3, he's spent more than 10 years with him. If Einstein didn't get rejuvenation treatment, then he's one spry old dog.
And it's not a theory. Doc didn't invent time travel in the FCB timeline, so he didn't get rejuvenation treatment. FCB would be dead at normal Doc's age and since it's not Doc's native timeline, he fades. And since they went well beyond the point of being able to fix it before Doc faded too far, he faded out completely. If they had stayed in 1931, then Doc would've slowly began to fade, just like his movie ticket. His own personal timeline had changed as drastically as if someone went back and killed Judge Brown before Emmett's birth. And since an Emmett Brown of that genetic age(over 90) wouldn't exist, he was phased out in favor of the new timeline's native Emmett Brown.
As we are arguing here I'm not agree with the theory "Doc is dead in that time so he fades away".
So are you telling that if you travel through time after your own death... you are just fading away? Because this theory have to be true in EVERY timeline, not only in alternatives.
And somebody thinks on Einstein? He didn't gone at any rejuvenation clinic. Why does he disappear as well?
No, it doesn't convince me at all.
Not at all, they could travel a million years into the future and they wouldnt' fade away.
Assume the following timelines
Doc is born in 1913 so in 1985 the first time he travels through time he is 72 in the original timeline. Doc has spent 28 years on his various time travels meaning he has lived for 100 years by the end of episode 2. In the FCB timeline, he dies sometime between 1986 and 2013 (the year he'd turn 100).
Thats why he disappears. The timeline changed and he no longer lives to that age. It's the same reason Biff disappeared in the deleted scene of part II when he got back to 2015 as it's implied he dies by then in that timeline.
And somebody thinks on Einstein? He didn't gone at any rejuvenation clinic. Why does he disappear as well?
No, it doesn't convince me at all.
Actually, Doc leaves Einstein in a "suspended animation kennel" when he visits the future, before returning to 1985 and taking Marty and Jennifer back to 2015, so Einstein lives longer than he rightfully should because he's kept from aging.
But I still stand by the theory that it's less likely that these characters have died per se, and more likely that they've changed their own individual timelines. Doc becomes FCB, so he never adopts Einstein, due to Edna's hatred of dogs. That's why Einstein roams the streets as a stray in Ep 3.
Again, I'll refer to Marty in Part I. He stops his parents from meeting, so he erases his existence in the future, which is why he starts to disappear. He changed his own individual timeline when he pushed George out of the way of that car. Doc, likewise, has altered his own timeline when Emmett becomes smitten with Edna. He becomes a different version of himself, which is why he disappears and becomes FCB.
It's the same with Biff in Part III. Old Biff goes back to 1955 and alters his own timeline when he gives young Biff the Sports Almanac and makes him a millionaire. Since Biff grows up as a successful man, he does not become the same man that travels back in time to give him the almanac. That's why the old Biff that waxes Griff's car, non-millionaire Biff, fades from existence in the deleted scene.
EDIT: I guess my main argument is that, if Marty went back in time to 1931 and killed young Emmett, Doc would disappear right? Because Emmet wouldn't grow up to become him. Why then, would altering the course of Emmett's life NOT affect Doc in the same way? A force acts on Emmet and affects Doc. If the force was death, Doc fades from existence. In this case, the force is Edna, turning him to a career in law. So therefore, it effects Doc the same way that killing Emmet would. He becomes what Emmet grows up to be after alterations are made to his individual timeline.
My opinion is that the time ripple only happens when the outcome is at an irreversible point that requires time travel from that point to repair it. Up to that pivotal point the time traveler has a sort of temporal bubble allowing them to remain in a time until the bubble pops.
Time the way I see it is more like a vast molecular model with lines connecting and veering off into other bubbles.
Things like Marty's parents not being together and giving enough time for him to be born, Doc not seeing Frankenstein and leaving the time period behind, or Leaving 2015 and entering 1985A can pop these bubbles. The Time travel made scientist Doc vanish had they remained in 1931 it could be corrected.
Something as irreversible as Death/Never being born would be more of a violent disappearing pop than say not seeing a movie or giving someone a book. Something small would require a time shift to cause the bubble to pop.
So I guess in all honesty all the alternate timelines could have their own bubble and still exist in a dimensional bubble. You would actually go more from time travel to dimensional travel. Doc Browns "Time" machine just doesn't allow you to revisit a dimensional time bubble that has been shifted because it travels in a straight line logic.
I know it isn't a perfect explanation but we are dealing with time/dimensional travel variables. No I don't think 2 dimensional versions can run along side each other except when some energy is transfered to compensate. The fact that the flying time machine wasn't "grounded" and the leftover energy being pulled out of its bubble is my only thought on how the 2025 version appeared. Since energy can't be created or destroyed it took on the form of the last thing it came into contact with much like a magnetic video recording.
Comments
AGAIN, that's how they PERCEIVE him as. Marty himself is not a nerd; he's just as normal as usual.
No, FCB's Marty is a total nerd. He can't play guitar, he's a goody-goody from hell, and goes to math camps. Not the Marty we're familiar with.
I wasn't TALKING about lame-ass FCB Marty.
Darnnit!
When someone "disappears" from a timeline, maybe they're not really disappearing, they're being slid sideways into the timeline most appropriate to them due to time stream tampering.
Once again the disappearing is because doc is dead by the time he reaches the age he was in the previous timeline in the new timeline, marty is not.
I'm saying Docs not "disappearing" but shifting sideways in time to a timeline where he is still alive and fits in. That's how Marty can partially disappear and return (BTTF1) without violating too many laws of thermodynamics. And that's why they only disappear when things get ugly, because it's such a great expenditure of energy.
at the point of part I, there is no timeline for marty to shift to. The only timeline which has existed, he went back in time from 1985 to 1955 and at that point had not returned.
Actually, you could argue that a new timeline was formed the second Marty pushed George out of the way of that car, but I agree with you that Doc disappears because, in choosing law over science, he never invents time travel and never visits that rejuvenation clinic to add 40 years to his life.
Doc spent at least ten years in the 1800s alone prior to the end of part 3 and likely about ten more since then. Plus who knows how long he was gone for at the end of part I after he goes to 2015. So yeah doc would be pushing 100 by now.
As for the laws of thermodynamics, that physics. Physics have no place in time travel.
Interesting bit of information here, this gives me something to think about.
So are you telling that if you travel through time after your own death... you are just fading away? Because this theory have to be true in EVERY timeline, not only in alternatives.
And somebody thinks on Einstein? He didn't gone at any rejuvenation clinic. Why does he disappear as well?
No, it doesn't convince me at all.
And it's not a theory. Doc didn't invent time travel in the FCB timeline, so he didn't get rejuvenation treatment. FCB would be dead at normal Doc's age and since it's not Doc's native timeline, he fades. And since they went well beyond the point of being able to fix it before Doc faded too far, he faded out completely. If they had stayed in 1931, then Doc would've slowly began to fade, just like his movie ticket. His own personal timeline had changed as drastically as if someone went back and killed Judge Brown before Emmett's birth. And since an Emmett Brown of that genetic age(over 90) wouldn't exist, he was phased out in favor of the new timeline's native Emmett Brown.
Not at all, they could travel a million years into the future and they wouldnt' fade away.
Assume the following timelines
Doc is born in 1913 so in 1985 the first time he travels through time he is 72 in the original timeline. Doc has spent 28 years on his various time travels meaning he has lived for 100 years by the end of episode 2. In the FCB timeline, he dies sometime between 1986 and 2013 (the year he'd turn 100).
Thats why he disappears. The timeline changed and he no longer lives to that age. It's the same reason Biff disappeared in the deleted scene of part II when he got back to 2015 as it's implied he dies by then in that timeline.
Actually, Doc leaves Einstein in a "suspended animation kennel" when he visits the future, before returning to 1985 and taking Marty and Jennifer back to 2015, so Einstein lives longer than he rightfully should because he's kept from aging.
But I still stand by the theory that it's less likely that these characters have died per se, and more likely that they've changed their own individual timelines. Doc becomes FCB, so he never adopts Einstein, due to Edna's hatred of dogs. That's why Einstein roams the streets as a stray in Ep 3.
Again, I'll refer to Marty in Part I. He stops his parents from meeting, so he erases his existence in the future, which is why he starts to disappear. He changed his own individual timeline when he pushed George out of the way of that car. Doc, likewise, has altered his own timeline when Emmett becomes smitten with Edna. He becomes a different version of himself, which is why he disappears and becomes FCB.
It's the same with Biff in Part III. Old Biff goes back to 1955 and alters his own timeline when he gives young Biff the Sports Almanac and makes him a millionaire. Since Biff grows up as a successful man, he does not become the same man that travels back in time to give him the almanac. That's why the old Biff that waxes Griff's car, non-millionaire Biff, fades from existence in the deleted scene.
EDIT: I guess my main argument is that, if Marty went back in time to 1931 and killed young Emmett, Doc would disappear right? Because Emmet wouldn't grow up to become him. Why then, would altering the course of Emmett's life NOT affect Doc in the same way? A force acts on Emmet and affects Doc. If the force was death, Doc fades from existence. In this case, the force is Edna, turning him to a career in law. So therefore, it effects Doc the same way that killing Emmet would. He becomes what Emmet grows up to be after alterations are made to his individual timeline.
Time the way I see it is more like a vast molecular model with lines connecting and veering off into other bubbles.
Things like Marty's parents not being together and giving enough time for him to be born, Doc not seeing Frankenstein and leaving the time period behind, or Leaving 2015 and entering 1985A can pop these bubbles. The Time travel made scientist Doc vanish had they remained in 1931 it could be corrected.
Something as irreversible as Death/Never being born would be more of a violent disappearing pop than say not seeing a movie or giving someone a book. Something small would require a time shift to cause the bubble to pop.
So I guess in all honesty all the alternate timelines could have their own bubble and still exist in a dimensional bubble. You would actually go more from time travel to dimensional travel. Doc Browns "Time" machine just doesn't allow you to revisit a dimensional time bubble that has been shifted because it travels in a straight line logic.
I know it isn't a perfect explanation but we are dealing with time/dimensional travel variables. No I don't think 2 dimensional versions can run along side each other except when some energy is transfered to compensate. The fact that the flying time machine wasn't "grounded" and the leftover energy being pulled out of its bubble is my only thought on how the 2025 version appeared. Since energy can't be created or destroyed it took on the form of the last thing it came into contact with much like a magnetic video recording.
Whew