[SUPER SPOILERS!!!] Problems in understanding the story of Puzzle Agent 2
Hello everybody!
Since my English is not particularly good, I must admit I've had some difficulties in understanding some parts of the story, so I'll be very grateful to all those who can resolve my doubts.
Here's the list of my main doubts, forgive me if some of them will look silly to you, but I just want to understand this straight! :
1) Was it the government that disposed of Olav, when they realized that the discoveries of the astronomer were enormously powerful?
2) What do the Hidden People have to do with lunacy? Do their whispers cure it, or cause it?
2-bis) What ACTUALLY discovered Olav?
3) Why did Nelson assume that Olav had spoken to the Hidden People?
4) The machine that makes people become lunatics, it was created by the governement: did government base its creation on Olav's research? Is that why they disposed of him? Because they wanted to use his research in a negative way?
5) In the game it is said that during each lunar eclypse, the Hidden People come from the Moon to the Earth. Did I understand correctly?
6) What is the "house" of the Hidden People to which they cannot return, the moon or the place where the astronauts and the government-machine are?
7) The Brotherhood's aim was the one to help the Hidden People. The Hidden People needed someone to destroy the device that prevented them from returning home. So, was Davner locked in the factory by the Brotherhood so that he could think of a way to switch it off without being disturbed?
8) What went wrong during the Hermes II mission? I mean, ok, it was an eclypse, but how did the eclypse interfere with the other 2 astronauts' sanity? Does the government device have something to do with this?
9) Why didn't Mrs Garret want to host Nelson in her inn?
10) All the people who disappeared actually died, killed by the astronauts, right?
11) Bjorn says that the Hidden People are angered, and that the Brotherhood is broken: is it because the other 2 cultists disappeared and were then killed by the astronauts? I mean, did they too try to help them destroy the lunar device but they were caught by the astronauts? Is that why the H. P. are angry? Because no one is able to help them?
12) What happened to Nelson when the Hidden People spoke to him? But most importantly, WHY Nelson thought it necessary to be spoken to by the HIdden People?
13) Did Isaac pretend to die, before or after his mission on the moon?
14) Which of Nelson's discoveries made the government send some agents to Scoggins? Olav's research or the Hermes II? Or neither?
15) What happened to Alfred? He heard some whispers, but was it the Hidden People or the astronauts who attracted him?
16) So, to sum up, the Hidden People are not bad, right? They only need someone to help them. The real bad guys are the astronauts who kill everyone who gets near them (Darrel, the skiier, Korka's partner or Will for example) or who try to help the HIdden People (Bo Murphy, the first cultist). Is that correct?
Thank you in advance for the time you'll give over to me!
Since my English is not particularly good, I must admit I've had some difficulties in understanding some parts of the story, so I'll be very grateful to all those who can resolve my doubts.
Here's the list of my main doubts, forgive me if some of them will look silly to you, but I just want to understand this straight! :
1) Was it the government that disposed of Olav, when they realized that the discoveries of the astronomer were enormously powerful?
2) What do the Hidden People have to do with lunacy? Do their whispers cure it, or cause it?
2-bis) What ACTUALLY discovered Olav?
3) Why did Nelson assume that Olav had spoken to the Hidden People?
4) The machine that makes people become lunatics, it was created by the governement: did government base its creation on Olav's research? Is that why they disposed of him? Because they wanted to use his research in a negative way?
5) In the game it is said that during each lunar eclypse, the Hidden People come from the Moon to the Earth. Did I understand correctly?
6) What is the "house" of the Hidden People to which they cannot return, the moon or the place where the astronauts and the government-machine are?
7) The Brotherhood's aim was the one to help the Hidden People. The Hidden People needed someone to destroy the device that prevented them from returning home. So, was Davner locked in the factory by the Brotherhood so that he could think of a way to switch it off without being disturbed?
8) What went wrong during the Hermes II mission? I mean, ok, it was an eclypse, but how did the eclypse interfere with the other 2 astronauts' sanity? Does the government device have something to do with this?
9) Why didn't Mrs Garret want to host Nelson in her inn?
10) All the people who disappeared actually died, killed by the astronauts, right?
11) Bjorn says that the Hidden People are angered, and that the Brotherhood is broken: is it because the other 2 cultists disappeared and were then killed by the astronauts? I mean, did they too try to help them destroy the lunar device but they were caught by the astronauts? Is that why the H. P. are angry? Because no one is able to help them?
12) What happened to Nelson when the Hidden People spoke to him? But most importantly, WHY Nelson thought it necessary to be spoken to by the HIdden People?
13) Did Isaac pretend to die, before or after his mission on the moon?
14) Which of Nelson's discoveries made the government send some agents to Scoggins? Olav's research or the Hermes II? Or neither?
15) What happened to Alfred? He heard some whispers, but was it the Hidden People or the astronauts who attracted him?
16) So, to sum up, the Hidden People are not bad, right? They only need someone to help them. The real bad guys are the astronauts who kill everyone who gets near them (Darrel, the skiier, Korka's partner or Will for example) or who try to help the HIdden People (Bo Murphy, the first cultist). Is that correct?
Thank you in advance for the time you'll give over to me!
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Comments
1 - I think that the Government initially rejected Olav because they thought his ideas were crazy, so he worked alone on his research and later Nelson found out his discoveries were actually true.
3 - One of Olav's recordings that Nelson uncovered had Olav summoning the hidden people with a song.
6- I think the Moon.
7 - Davner was locked in the factory because the Brotherhood claimed the Hidden People whispered to him, and they wanted to keep him contained without him escaping so they could use him for their own purposes.
9 - Mrs Garett was trying to help protect Nelson because The Brotherhood and Sherif Bahg were angry at Nelson for interfering with their plans to keep Davner locked in the factory, and if they knew Nelson was at the Inn, they likely would have harassed him somehow.
10 - Yes
12 - I think the Hidden People told Nelson to go to the Lunar Ray, and the scene in Space was Nelson hallucinating while he was at the Lunar Ray. I don't think Nelson intentionally wanted the Hidden People to speak to him, but I could be wrong.
13 - I think the Government wanted to keep the failed flight of the Hermes II and the Lunar Ray a secret, so they tried to convince the world that Davner was dead when he was actually involved with the conspiracy, but again I could be wrong. To answer your question, after the mission.
14 - It was both. It was the overall conspiracy and the clues coming together that made the government come.
15 - The Hidden People attracted Alfred.
16 - Yes, the Astronauts are bad, but only because of the Lunar Ray.
1) I think the hidden people were responsible for his disappearance, likely in the same manner of most of the other missing persons, in that they enchanted/hypnotized him and tried to use him to disable the lunar ray, and he ran into the crazed astronauts.
2) Their whispers seem to send the listeners into a trance, so not really crazy, but easily suggestible.
2-bis) The hidden people, when he called them.
3) There was background noise on the tape he'd recorded when he found Bo Murphy listening to a hidden person, and that noise matched a background noise he heard on Olav's recording.
4) The ray was based on his research, but I don't think the government got to him before the hidden people did.
5) I'm not totally sure here...but I don't think so. I think they came to the Earth in the lander, and the lunar eclipses were the times they tried to find people to shut down the lunar ray.
6) Again, I'm not totally sure, but I think they were trying to get back in the lander to get back to the moon.
7) Another I don't have a clear answer for. He was locked in because he'd been chosen, but I'm not sure if that was to keep him from escaping, or to use him as untouchable bait for the Brotherhood to lure the gnomes out.
8) The eclipse caused the lunar ray to malfunction, thus causing it to affect the two astronauts.
9) The Brotherhood was watching her(remember, Bjorn was just across the street), and likely had threatened her that if any outsiders(especially Nelson) returned, she was to turn them away.
10) That's what I understood.
11) I don't think the hidden people were actually angry, despite how Bjorn interpreted the sudden disappearance of the Brotherhood members. They were just getting desperate, and started enchanting more people more frequently.
12) Nelson thought it was important to summon the hidden people because Olav had done so, and he wanted to know what happened to Olav. While he was under their control, the exact details of what happened to him isn't known, but somehow, he ended up at the lander, surrounded by motionless FBI agents, in nothing but his hat, boxers, and a sock, whispering about puzzles.
13) Yes, Ed Davis faked his death after the Hermes II mission was scrubbed, and took up a new life as Isaac Davner.
14) The discovery of the Hermes II was probably the main reason the government tried to come in and take over. Getting the lunar ray back after it was thought lost became a big priority.
15) Alfred was drawn off by the hidden people.
16) Yep, that's correct. The hidden people just need help, and the crazed astronauts were the real 'villains'.
Olav discovered a cure for lunacy that the goverment subverted to create a weapon that actually induces lunacy, instead of curing it. I guess the hidden people he interacted with do have a role in his discovery, but I don't know for sure (should check his tapes).
The hidden people leave on the "dark side" of the moon, they have come to Earth during Isaac's mission that happened during a lunar eclispe, and they want to come back to that dark moon - the only time they can do that is during lunar eclipses.
You can see what the hidden people told Nelson on an entry of his journal, basically there are indications on how to make them come back to the black moon.
Eventually, yep, it seems like the hidden people only wanted to come home, the disappearances were due to a killing spree by the two mad astronauts - even though no bodies were ever found and so on.
After you solve a puzzle ,you hear something from what i believe is nelsons journey to the lander.
After one puzzle(from the gnome at the bottomp right i think)you can hear nelson screaming(i guess he is running from olav's cabin to the lunar ray like a lunatic)
And i think it was at the gnome at the right top,that you hear a secret service agent say: agent tethers,you can't do th- ow! (i guess he assaulted him,to get past...) i don't think that the other puzzles let you hear something,but i'm not really sure...
Well,another nice reason for me to replay it once more
But now I have a few more doubts:
-if the Brotherhood and the Sheriff are working together, what is their real goal?
-the noise that attracts the Hidden People, the one which both Nelson and Olav used to lure them out: what was that noise doing during the "conversation" between the HIdden Person and Bo Murphy? I mean, who played that noise in THAT particular occasion?
-some of you said that the Hidden People came to Earth using Isacc's same lander that eventually crashed on Scoggins. Then, during each eclipse, they appear to the people of Scoggins, to look for someone able to help them return to the dark side of the moon where they live, side that actually appears during lunar eclipses. It surely makes sense, but the game is kinda vague about this point, so how can we be sure that the Hidden People arrived to Earth with the Lander?
-lastly, I still don't get the connection between Olav's research about lunacy and the Hidden People. How did they help him with his research?
Once again, thank you in advance for the help you'll give me!
I don't think the Brotherhood knew why the Hidden People needed help; they just believed in them as forest spirits, worshipped them, tried to appease them when they thought they were angry. They associated the whispers that some people heard with attempts by the Hidden People to communicate. They convinced the Daavners to let Isaac go with the Hidden People, as a kind of sacrifice. I think Bjorn said directly that he didn't know why the Hidden People wanted Isaac. But, yeah, for whatever reason Isaac had to be locked in the factory to be taken by the Hidden People.
I don't think any of the missing people, except Isaac and maybe Olav, knew about the lunar device. The others found their way to the astronaut camp in response to the Hidden People's whispers -- or just accidently wandered too close -- and were killed. The Brotherhood worshipped forest spirits long before the Hidden People got blocked from their home. When that happened and people started hearing whispers and disappearing, the Brotherhood interpreted it as "the gods must be angry". I don't think the Hidden People were actually "angry", more like frustrated with not being able to get home and not being able to communicate easily with people who could help them, because they can only express themselves in puzzles.
I don't think the Brotherhood had a goal -- they were just practicing their religion or following their spiritual beliefs. The Sheriff wanted to protect the Brotherhood. We don't know how much he shared their beliefs but he probably went to them since he was puzzle-obsessed and probably affected by the Hidden People like Bo Murphy, Scruffman and others. He knew outsiders wouldn't understand, so he protected the Brotherhood from them.
Wasn't that just the noise of the hidden person whispering to Bo Murphy?
We have many hints: their presence coincides with the timeline of the lunar incident, they cannot go back without using the lander, so we can assume they cannot do the trip on their own even in the other sense (from Moon to Earth), the Hermes II mission happened to be exactly on the dark side, the hidden people explicitly address the lander as a mean of transport from Earth to Moon, and so on... well lots of coincidences you see.
I didn't get that the Hidden People came from the moon, but I'm not really sure. Somehow, in some possibly mystical way -- a way that I don't think necessarily needs to be explained -- the lander crash was blocking them from getting home.
Yes, the Brotherhood revered the myth of forest gnome-spirits long before the current situation with the Hidden People. Did those myths originate from long-ago contact with previous Hidden People? Or was it a coincidence that the Hidden People currently stranded in Scoggins happened to fulfill the existing, unrelated legends? I don't know and, here again, I don't think it actually needs to be answered.
NASA sent the lunar ray to the moon as a secret weapon.
The missing people were disposed of by the lunatic astronauts.
I don't know, but I suspect the government agents who came to Scoggins after learning the whereabouts of the crashed module from Nelson's reports took the lunatic astronauts as part of their coverup.
It's suggested that they somehow travel from the moon to earth only during eclipses.
Are you sure -- about that latter part? I thought there was like a year between the time the lander crashed and Olav disappeared, and it was during that time he was trying to communicate with the Hidden People? (Whether they came from the moon or not.) He eventually succeeded in finding out about their problems with crashed lander, went into the woods to find it, and was never heard from again.
The only thing I remember about eclipses is that Alfred found a correlation between them and sightings of the Hidden People in Scoggins. (Was there an eclipse on the day Nelson saw one whispering to Bo Murphy?) But not necessarily that they came from the moon during eclipses. Maybe they just came from out of wherever it is they hid in the forest.
This is crazy, huh? Figuring out the story is like Puzzle Agent 3.
Nelson himself said at one point that Olav made his discovery with the help of the hidden people.
Olav was studying eclipses too (if Alfred could found a correlation between them and sightings, it was because Nelson gave him what he found on Olav's cabin) And if you look at Olav's notes (you can see them briefly after Nelson finish one puzzle) there are drawings connecting the gnomes with the moon (even a drawing of gnomes on the surface of the moon).
Finally, in the puzzle with Alfred, the pictures clearly show the gnomes jumping from the moon to earth, wich you can argue it was symbolic or something since the puzzle are poorly tied with the argument, but with all the others clues behind i guess that is how it happened.
The funny thing is that I had always thought it was the most obvious part of the plot, but all of a sudden I realized it didn't make much sense.
And when Bo Murphy, after saying that, says "clear the path", that could be referring to the necessity of the Hidden People to clear their path home by shutting down the lunar ray...
And then one last thing: what do you think really happened to Mike Lobb? He wasn't even mentioned in Puzzle Agent 2. Is it possible that the Hidden People whispered to him too, and, while trying to solve a puzzle that would help the H.P. return home, he froze to death?
And when Mike Lobb says "They tried to take him", is he referring to the Hidden People or to the astronauts?
Since Bjorn says that Isaac has been chosen, I think that probably the Brotherhood wanted Isaac to help the Hidden People in a safe place. Glori says that herself :"The Hidden People need Isaac". Isaac, I think, had to remain locked in the factory until he would find a solution to the puzzles that would help the HIdden People return home. Once again, this is just a hypothesis..
That's why when Nelson try to get to him, he keeps screaming to leave him alone, and then even the hidden people helped Nelson to get to him (So he could make a way to where he was hiding and the gnomes could get him again)
Okay, I have to go back to number 10 in the original list. I don't think the Astronauts were actually killing people, because then they would have just killed Nelson. Besides, they didn't have the skiier's "remains" they just had his hat and gloves and skis, so the cross country skier could easily be one of the astronauts. I want to know what happened to them anyway. Did the government find them and take them away? Who were they all? Why had they all decided to just hang out in the woods all that time? Wouldn't they have rather that the puzzle master solve the puzzle and fix their machine?
I'm also with you what's the deal with the sheriff?
In the first puzzle agent, when it comes to Lobb, I don't know why Nelson didn't just call for help and try and unfreeze him after Lobb moved and gave him the piece of the machine