Rachel Dawes is many things to the Nolan Batman, including:
1. An anchor to sanity;
2. A positive connection to his past;
3. A stable relationship
Batman cannot have these things.
A great observation, although I can forgive -and explain- this one fairly easily. Nolan's movies doesn't show what Batman is (like what Tim Burton tried to do in his movies), they show what Batman ultimately becomes from ground zero, step by step.
In Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Bruce always mentioned the possibility of Gotham no longer needing Batman, therefore he can have his own life back, therefore a chance of having the girl of his dreams. He needed to learn Gotham always needs -or deserves- a Batman and it always had to be him and he can never have sanity, a past and someone to love.
And yet, he learned it at the end of the second movie by Rachel's death.
I highly believe that's what's attempted to be explained throughout two movies. Now we have yet to see a Batman who has accepted his limitation of, well, having no life to limit himself, in TDKR.
TL;DR all in all Rachel was only good for a MEANING and a general plot idea, that's what we have been accepting, in order to get past it and bash other aspects of the character we ACTUALLY don't like. Iunno about you, but I believe Rachel's characteristics are intended like so, and she wouldn't serve the purpose as well in if she was different from your description.
For the record, I have not read the Batman comics that much so I didn't know she was
supposed to die
, and I liked Katie Holmes as Rachel Dawes far better than Maggie Gyllenhaal. Seriously, Maggie Gyllenhaal looks too old in The Dark Knight to be the same Rachel from Batman Begins. There are a number of shots in TDK where I could swear she appears to have greying hair, and her facial complexion makes her look older. I know this could be fixed with makeup, but it wasn't.
Also, Maggie Gyllenhaal's voice cracks on occasion during her lines in TDK.
of all the women that already existed in the DC Universe, they felt the need to just create someone new that everyone knew
was going to die just for that reason
.
I suppose I misread that and thought Johro meant that the character
dies
in the comics and so anyone who had read them would have expected it.
Now that I read it again, it makes more sense in the context of a Nolan-created character.
But I still say that I liked the character of Rachel Dawes as portrayed by Katie Holmes, while Maggie Gyllenhaal's appearance and voice (and perhaps a few other reasons) made me dislike her portrayal in TDK.
She turned them down actually. She got married to that crazy man with his crazy religion and decided Batman wasn't plausible enough.... but really, yes, she did turn them down.
But I still say that I liked the character of Rachel Dawes as portrayed by Katie Holmes
Yeah, well, overall the character Rachel was done better in Batman Begins. I think her character was less obnoxious and Katie Holmes was much more likable for her acting, beauty, and nipples.
She turned them down actually. She got married to that crazy man with his crazy religion and decided Batman wasn't plausible enough.... but really, yes, she did turn them down.
Way I heard it, when they got married, he told her no more acting. Not sure how true that is. He is pretty crazy.
No. Michael Keaton is the only living man (other than a hypothetical actual Bruce Wayne) who can actually truthfully say that he is genuinely Batman. Period.
haha, I agree. He's much more interesting to watch (I think) than any of the other guys that have portrayed him.
Anyone seen the new Hot Toys Michael Keaton Batman figure? :eek:
Doug Walker (Nostalgia Critic) said on his Old vs. New video of Batman vs. The Dark Knight that Micheal Keaton is a better Batman than Christian Bale because Keaton's Bruce Wayne doesn't look like he's obviously Batman, while Bale's Bruce Wayne always seems like he's suppressing underlying issues. He says people complained when first learning that Keaton was to play Batman because he doesn't look like he could be Batman, but Doug says that's why he's a good choice.
Has anyone play Arkham City Lockdown on iOS? Because it's awesome.
I have. I thought it was fantastic for the first couple playthroughs. As long as you don't expect a lot, it's great. Actually fighting the Joker, the actual Joker was worth it to me. Not a whole lot in replay value, but it's not like it's expensive.
Doug Walker (Nostalgia Critic) said on his Old vs. New video of Batman vs. The Dark Knight that Micheal Keaton is a better Batman than Christian Bale because Keaton's Bruce Wayne doesn't look like he's obviously Batman, while Bale's Bruce Wayne always seems like he's suppressing underlying issues. He says people complained when first learning that Keaton was to play Batman because he doesn't look like he could be Batman, but Doug says that's why he's a good choice.
Really? He doesn't look like Batman? The eyebrows man. THE F-ING EYEBROWS. They practically scream Batman. Keaton looks like he's always frowning. Just like the Bat.
Really? He doesn't look like Batman? The eyebrows man. THE F-ING EYEBROWS. They practically scream Batman. Keaton looks like he's always frowning. Just like the Bat.
Doug was referring to the actors filmography. If you watched Keaton in his early roles, you wouldn't imagine him as Batman. It'd be like casting George Clooney....only... good.
So how far is everyone in Arkham City? how far into the story are you and what side missions you have done but remember if you're gonna say use spoiler tags.
I finished my first playthrough and i'm on my second playthrough right now i'm at the part where Joker has infected Batman with his blood and kicked him out the window to find Freeze and the cure. some side missions i have done is the Mad Hatter one and the Bane one and a few more.
Completed everything except the online medals. After Arkham Asylum, I just don't care about the medals anymore. I've moved onto other games for now. I recall having a little trouble finding one Riddler trophy because I didn't know one of the stupid buildings(GCPD I think) is considered part of the area map. I eventually figured it out though. I'm not spoilering that because if anyone didn't know, I'm just saving you some
so how far is everyone in arkham city? how far into the story are you and what side missions you have done but remember if ur gonna say use spoiler tags
Finished with the main story. I'd like to check out more Riddler stuff as I can see some effort went into those segments as well, but, uh, for some stupid reason the game gives me headaches so I just left it there. It's a very good game though.
Well that's why Burton liked him. But that was still a comedy role.
Yup! I think even the producers admitted they gave Burton the go-ahead on Keaton after they saw him in Beetlejuice. Oddly enough they also wanted Bill Murray as Batman. Now imagine that.
Which villians would you want to see in the game, what should you think the story should be about, where should it take place, and who should be the main antagonist?
1. Harley Quinn, Scarecrow, Ventriloquist, Calendar Man, Zsasz
2. Total criminal takeover of Gotham City.
3. The integrity of Gotham City.
4. Either Harley Quinn or The Joker (hey, he's cheated death before, hasn't he?)
In the weeks following Arkham City's collapse, a horde of criminals were essentially left unsupervised as TIGER forces withdrew and police units found themselves unable to establish a foothold. Instead, a massive barricade was established at the central gate and police boats tirelessly patrolled the external shore, in hopes of buying time until a resolution could be made.
Bruce Wayne, longtime Gotham City patriarch, was driven into hiding following a series of senseless murders that all pointed to Wayne as the primary suspect. Even surveillance video clearly caught sight of Wayne as he slaughtered victims. Though Wayne himself evaded capture, his faithful butler Alfred was taken into custody and Wayne Manor occupied by police forces.
All seemed to be going well until the fear gas swept out into the streets, driving the officers mad with terror. The defense down, Harvey 'Two Face' Dent rode out into Gotham on the back of an army of criminals, leaderless after the death of Joker and the capture of Penguin. Two Face, the only controlling force left in the city, organized all of Arkham City's criminals en masse, moving into greater Gotham.
The city became a war zone following the coordinated assault of Scarecrow and Harvey. Dent's newest weapon was Scarecrow's poison, and he used it to effectively drive back all police efforts to put a halt to his criminal war. Acting as Harvey's chief general, Prometheus led the war effort, slaughtering officers as had been his calling since he was a child. The police fell back, forced to abandon the prisoners at Gotham City Police Department, including Alfred. They were driven to their only foothold, Wayne Manor. With an overwhelming police presence there, Batman was cut off from the Batcave.
Sensing the turning tide in Gotham, Black Mask and Great White allied to form the Skull Society, a criminal organization to battle against the many commanded by Harvey Dent. Using their considerable financial resources they hired a formidable number of men and carved out their own section of Gotham, holding tightly against the encroaching forces of Two Face. Following the terms of their former alliance, Riddler and Black Mask allied, the Riddler allowed to wreak havoc on the citizens of Gotham who were struggling to survive, while also making life hell for those unfortunate thugs in the employ of Two Face who might stumble into his devious games.
With the streets of Gotham terrorized, not even the skies or the grounds below were safe. The Ratcatcher flooded the sewers with toxic venom that few could survive, leaving only those criminals equipped with gas masks by Dent in a position to patrol the underground. The unpredictable Killer Croc, ever eager for vengeance against Batman, was charged with its patrol. Yet in his agitated state, even Dent's thugs were never entirely safe.
Meanwhile, the skies above were kept out of police advantage by the continuing efforts of Killer Moth and Firefly, who actively assaulted any police forces that attempted to turn the battle to their advantage using police helicopters.
Finally, acting quite independently, Poison Ivy had once again established herself in Gotham, assuming possession of its arboretum, and destroying all humans that would come within close proximity.
With Gotham sealed by land and air, and the Batcave now outside of Batman's reach, he was left only to his gear. He would first need access to the cave, which would require a stealthy entry through the manor. Following this, he would need to arm himself and see to taking down Two Face. With Dent's location a mystery and an array of villains set against him, he would be in bad need of allies.
Acting in the shadows was Azrael, hoping to aid Batman as he could. By clearing the skies they could open a way for the arrival of Nightwing. On the ground, both Robin and Catwoman were present. Making contact was the only issue, given the continuing communication blackout being enacted from Wayne Tower by the ever curious Maxie Zeus.
With these forces arrayed against him, Batman could only wonder who had coordinated his exile as Bruce Wayne, the dispersal of fear gas and the escape of Harvey Dent.
There is no Arkahm Country without them. As good as the other villains are, I don't think they're good enough to carry a plot like the Arkham series demands. Plus, I don't really think the developers know where to take the story from here. They've basically done No Man's Land, there's nowhere really left to go from there.
(And before you ask, the fourth game would be Arkham Planet, and the fifth Arkham Universe.)
We already got a Batman thread but on to the questions
1. I would say the story should be the Joker's body goes missing and Batman is called in to find out where it is because The Joker's Body goes missing around the same time a new villain has shown up in Gotham and has managed to get total control over all the villains and He even has Harley on his side and after Leading Batman into a trap. Batman is knocked out by Harley,Two Face,Clayface and Mr.Freeze and after Batman wakes up he finds his mask on the ground. All the villains he has ever battled staring at him and he sees Alfred, Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin being captured by the police he finds out that all of Gotham has turned against him. So now that this new villain has taken over all of Gotham city. He has captured Batman's Family and but as Batman is captured. There is still one person on his side who is breaking him out and that person is Catwoman so after they escape it's up to Batman to save Gotham before The new villain manages to take over the world.
There is no Arkahm Country without them. As good as the other villains are, I don't think they're good enough to carry a plot like the Arkham series demands. Plus, I don't really think the developers know where to take the story from here. They've basically done No Man's Land, there's nowhere really left to go from there.
(And before you ask, the fourth game would be Arkham Planet, and the fifth Arkham Universe.)
Great now i can just imagine a Joker smile on the world -_-
there is a small flaw to your thinking here mark hammil has retired from doing the voice of the joker. he has said himself this was the time for him to bow out stop doing the role of the joker. and i don't blame him. and i doubt they could find anyone to replace him as the voice actor for the joker in a pc game. and to be honest i don't think it would make sense to do a batman arkham 3 game. two was enough.
Which villians would you want to see in the game, what should you think the story should be about, where should it take place, and who should be the main antagonist?
1. Harley Quinn, Scarecrow, Ventriloquist, Calendar Man, Zsasz
2. Total criminal takeover of Gotham City.
3. The integrity of Gotham City.
4. Either Harley Quinn or The Joker (hey, he's cheated death before, hasn't he?)
Indeed. I believe he said he was retiring the role after Arkham Asylum because he didn't think he could go out on a better note. Then they gave him the script for Arkham City.
Comments
A great observation, although I can forgive -and explain- this one fairly easily. Nolan's movies doesn't show what Batman is (like what Tim Burton tried to do in his movies), they show what Batman ultimately becomes from ground zero, step by step.
In Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Bruce always mentioned the possibility of Gotham no longer needing Batman, therefore he can have his own life back, therefore a chance of having the girl of his dreams. He needed to learn Gotham always needs -or deserves- a Batman and it always had to be him and he can never have sanity, a past and someone to love.
TL;DR all in all Rachel was only good for a MEANING and a general plot idea, that's what we have been accepting, in order to get past it and bash other aspects of the character we ACTUALLY don't like. Iunno about you, but I believe Rachel's characteristics are intended like so, and she wouldn't serve the purpose as well in if she was different from your description.
Also, Maggie Gyllenhaal's voice cracks on occasion during her lines in TDK.
I can tell you haven't, since Rachel Dawes is a movie-exclusive character in Batman franchise.
well, I was going off of this: I suppose I misread that and thought Johro meant that the character
Now that I read it again, it makes more sense in the context of a Nolan-created character.
But I still say that I liked the character of Rachel Dawes as portrayed by Katie Holmes, while Maggie Gyllenhaal's appearance and voice (and perhaps a few other reasons) made me dislike her portrayal in TDK.
Yeah, well, overall the character Rachel was done better in Batman Begins. I think her character was less obnoxious and Katie Holmes was much more likable for her acting, beauty, and nipples.
Way I heard it, when they got married, he told her no more acting. Not sure how true that is. He is pretty crazy.
I thought the reason of her absence in TDK was her pregnancy. I mean, she still plays in some TV shows and all that...
haha, I agree. He's much more interesting to watch (I think) than any of the other guys that have portrayed him.
Anyone seen the new Hot Toys Michael Keaton Batman figure? :eek:
I have. I thought it was fantastic for the first couple playthroughs. As long as you don't expect a lot, it's great. Actually fighting the Joker, the actual Joker was worth it to me. Not a whole lot in replay value, but it's not like it's expensive.
Really? He doesn't look like Batman? The eyebrows man. THE F-ING EYEBROWS. They practically scream Batman. Keaton looks like he's always frowning. Just like the Bat.
Doug was referring to the actors filmography. If you watched Keaton in his early roles, you wouldn't imagine him as Batman. It'd be like casting George Clooney....only... good.
Well that's why Burton liked him. But that was still a comedy role.
Finished with the main story. I'd like to check out more Riddler stuff as I can see some effort went into those segments as well, but, uh, for some stupid reason the game gives me headaches so I just left it there. It's a very good game though.
Yup! I think even the producers admitted they gave Burton the go-ahead on Keaton after they saw him in Beetlejuice. Oddly enough they also wanted Bill Murray as Batman. Now imagine that.
Still better than George Clooney as Batman :I
Yeah i know... One of the producers admits it here:
http://youtu.be/0rujArU3il8
It's about 7 minutes in
1. Harley Quinn, Scarecrow, Ventriloquist, Calendar Man, Zsasz
2. Total criminal takeover of Gotham City.
3. The integrity of Gotham City.
4. Either Harley Quinn or The Joker (hey, he's cheated death before, hasn't he?)
Bruce Wayne, longtime Gotham City patriarch, was driven into hiding following a series of senseless murders that all pointed to Wayne as the primary suspect. Even surveillance video clearly caught sight of Wayne as he slaughtered victims. Though Wayne himself evaded capture, his faithful butler Alfred was taken into custody and Wayne Manor occupied by police forces.
All seemed to be going well until the fear gas swept out into the streets, driving the officers mad with terror. The defense down, Harvey 'Two Face' Dent rode out into Gotham on the back of an army of criminals, leaderless after the death of Joker and the capture of Penguin. Two Face, the only controlling force left in the city, organized all of Arkham City's criminals en masse, moving into greater Gotham.
The city became a war zone following the coordinated assault of Scarecrow and Harvey. Dent's newest weapon was Scarecrow's poison, and he used it to effectively drive back all police efforts to put a halt to his criminal war. Acting as Harvey's chief general, Prometheus led the war effort, slaughtering officers as had been his calling since he was a child. The police fell back, forced to abandon the prisoners at Gotham City Police Department, including Alfred. They were driven to their only foothold, Wayne Manor. With an overwhelming police presence there, Batman was cut off from the Batcave.
Sensing the turning tide in Gotham, Black Mask and Great White allied to form the Skull Society, a criminal organization to battle against the many commanded by Harvey Dent. Using their considerable financial resources they hired a formidable number of men and carved out their own section of Gotham, holding tightly against the encroaching forces of Two Face. Following the terms of their former alliance, Riddler and Black Mask allied, the Riddler allowed to wreak havoc on the citizens of Gotham who were struggling to survive, while also making life hell for those unfortunate thugs in the employ of Two Face who might stumble into his devious games.
With the streets of Gotham terrorized, not even the skies or the grounds below were safe. The Ratcatcher flooded the sewers with toxic venom that few could survive, leaving only those criminals equipped with gas masks by Dent in a position to patrol the underground. The unpredictable Killer Croc, ever eager for vengeance against Batman, was charged with its patrol. Yet in his agitated state, even Dent's thugs were never entirely safe.
Meanwhile, the skies above were kept out of police advantage by the continuing efforts of Killer Moth and Firefly, who actively assaulted any police forces that attempted to turn the battle to their advantage using police helicopters.
Finally, acting quite independently, Poison Ivy had once again established herself in Gotham, assuming possession of its arboretum, and destroying all humans that would come within close proximity.
With Gotham sealed by land and air, and the Batcave now outside of Batman's reach, he was left only to his gear. He would first need access to the cave, which would require a stealthy entry through the manor. Following this, he would need to arm himself and see to taking down Two Face. With Dent's location a mystery and an array of villains set against him, he would be in bad need of allies.
Acting in the shadows was Azrael, hoping to aid Batman as he could. By clearing the skies they could open a way for the arrival of Nightwing. On the ground, both Robin and Catwoman were present. Making contact was the only issue, given the continuing communication blackout being enacted from Wayne Tower by the ever curious Maxie Zeus.
With these forces arrayed against him, Batman could only wonder who had coordinated his exile as Bruce Wayne, the dispersal of fear gas and the escape of Harvey Dent.
There is no Arkahm Country without them. As good as the other villains are, I don't think they're good enough to carry a plot like the Arkham series demands. Plus, I don't really think the developers know where to take the story from here. They've basically done No Man's Land, there's nowhere really left to go from there.
(And before you ask, the fourth game would be Arkham Planet, and the fifth Arkham Universe.)
1. I would say the story should be the Joker's body goes missing and Batman is called in to find out where it is because The Joker's Body goes missing around the same time a new villain has shown up in Gotham and has managed to get total control over all the villains and He even has Harley on his side and after Leading Batman into a trap. Batman is knocked out by Harley,Two Face,Clayface and Mr.Freeze and after Batman wakes up he finds his mask on the ground. All the villains he has ever battled staring at him and he sees Alfred, Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin being captured by the police he finds out that all of Gotham has turned against him. So now that this new villain has taken over all of Gotham city. He has captured Batman's Family and but as Batman is captured. There is still one person on his side who is breaking him out and that person is Catwoman so after they escape it's up to Batman to save Gotham before The new villain manages to take over the world.
Great now i can just imagine a Joker smile on the world -_-
Indeed. I believe he said he was retiring the role after Arkham Asylum because he didn't think he could go out on a better note. Then they gave him the script for Arkham City.