Who the hell is Mark? /SPOILER
I live in Europe and own a ps3 so when I finally got to play episode 2 last night, it has been over 2 months since I last took a look at our survivors.
I could remember everyone, and recalled most of the decisions I made from episode 1. But I had no memories of Mark at all. I just couldn't figure out where he came from. Did I miss something from episode 1?
It's just now that I realized that Mark wasn't in episode 1 at all. That's a bit lame. Introducing a new character like that, especially after knowing everything that happens to him. Why couldn't we just have both Doug and Carly alive, that would have been way more emotional. Now I didn't really care for Mark, so when shit hit the fan I still thought it was pretty awesome, but it didn't have the impact it could have had. Bit of a shame.
Or am I missing something here?
I could remember everyone, and recalled most of the decisions I made from episode 1. But I had no memories of Mark at all. I just couldn't figure out where he came from. Did I miss something from episode 1?
It's just now that I realized that Mark wasn't in episode 1 at all. That's a bit lame. Introducing a new character like that, especially after knowing everything that happens to him. Why couldn't we just have both Doug and Carly alive, that would have been way more emotional. Now I didn't really care for Mark, so when shit hit the fan I still thought it was pretty awesome, but it didn't have the impact it could have had. Bit of a shame.
Or am I missing something here?
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The story skips three months and the group met Mark within that time. So no you didn't miss anything but they let you know how he came to be let into the group.
Maybe elementary narrative techniques, but it really is a matter of taste.
There were three months between the happenings in episode 1 and 2. Months in which probably far more happened than sleeping and starving - and that includes new acquaintances. We still get an introduction of Mark with the same level of detail as with as Carley and Doug - it's just that Lee already knows him. From the perspective of storytelling, that is not only all right - it's also necessary to vary the way characters are introduced into the story. From the standpoint of character exposition, all's well for me here.
"You shouldn't have opened that door, Mark."
"The one to the commissary where we met and I gave you food? Yeah, but I'd be eaten instead by now."
"Shut up, Mark! The only reason you're here is because you had food!"
"Yes, you're referring to us meeting in the air force produce aisle. You shot a zombie off me and we all ate steaks right after; good times."
"Oh god, it's Mark! He's a zombie!"
"It's ironic, really. After all that stuff I said when we first met about how I like to stay clean and couldn't imagine being rotted and icky."
Wait, I don't get it.
EDIT: For clarity, just so you know.
Talk about ultimate sacrifice and loyalty.
Is anyone else as irritated as I am that we didn't get to play the bit where they rescue mark, but instead are just "Yeah btw, here's some new guy, have fun"? I get that they randomly at one point say where he came from, but what the hell? Why did they even GO to the airforce base in the first place? I assume it must've been tied to Lilly, but still.
Just seems like weak-ass development work. Especially if you're inventing a character just to kill him off. That's bad writing on par with "giant monster end battle".
Dont read this comment if you havent completed episode 2!
yeah i agree with you. But adding Mark out of thin air wasnt bad writing i mean its been done before. But killing him off in the same episode was bad writing, i didnt care at all if he died because we werent given more time with him to care about him. Unlike when Larry was killed off i was definately shocked.
Edit: The Mark thing seems weak, I mean
Mark is not unique in unexplained origin and quick death.
The first example is the cop.
The second, and more relevant, example is Shawn. We meet him, he's trying to get home, and then he dies pretty early on. It's pretty similar to Mark.
The third example is Carley and Doug. Depending on who you save, one dies early on after some significant role.
As far as the cast that has survived, very little about their past is revealed.
We don't even know how the group that was at the drug store came together before Lee's group arrived.
Personally, I just don't think Mark's arrival or exit is strange, especially with these time jumps. And it would break the narrative timeline just to show them meet Mark.
If he was just introduced to the group in the beginning of the episode, like has been suggested, how could Lee have such a strong emotional reaction to eating him? To his death? Or the group, for that matter?
They needed an established relationship and you can't do that with the audience in one cut scene or if he was just introduced to the game.
I think the writers are doing an excellent job. They're really good writers. But everybody is entitled to their opinion. It's just my view.
It seemed like the usual catch up in tv shows and the like. New character quick back ground update and then keep it moving.
"We can kill off one main cast character per episode MAX. If we want to kill off more characters than that during an episode then they'll have to be new characters."
"Yeah, it's not like we can kill off 3 main characters per episode; there will be no one left by episode 4."
"Ok, so we've got Larry dying in episode 2. That means we need a sacrificial lamb to be the cannibal victim. Let's add in a new character."
"Alright, but will anyone care what happens to him though?"
"We'll make him just memorable enough so that people will at least remember who he is."
"Yeah, but if we killed off someone people REALLY cared about it would have way more of an impact."
"So what? We can't afford to kill off more than 1 main cast character per episode or we'll run out. We have to ration our main cast kills."
In my opinion, it would have made far more sense to have introduced mark as a new main cast character, not had the guy with his leg in the trap at the beginning die/turn, and have HIM be the one who got eaten. That would be almost funny it's such bad luck for him. Now that's assuming that for some reason killing another main cast character is out of the question, which I don't think it should be. Hell, if I was writing this there'd only be 2-3 people left from e1. Life is cheap in the zombie apocalypse world.
I think it would have been crazy if the character saved from e1 (in my case Doug) was the cannibal victim in episode 2. Not because I don't like them, but because it would really be awesome (in the dramatic sense, not like it's actually awesome) to find out that the person you saved ends up getting eaten to just above the knees and then turns walker. The players have a special bond with the person they chose to save. That means that whatever happens to that character will carry extra significance. I mean, it's the ONE person who's only alive because of a choice we made.
I wanted to see more of Mark, but instead of him coming back for e3 we get this dumb high school kid who has no personality, no backstory, no skills, no equipment, and as far as I can tell, no spine. Great, thanks. I hope we get at least one new badass in e3 who doesn't die immediately because this group is already 90% useless. Frankly if I was with this group in an apocalypse, I'd leave and go off on my own. They're more dangerous than the zombies imo.
It still feels like the walking dead though. The group suffered 20% casualties in one day, Ben lost everyone he knew by horrible means, and who could forget the best part...the living are just as much a threat as walkers or greater to your continued survival.
I don't think we got shortchanged when it came to Mark. We went hunting with him, fixed a fence and had dinner with him. Seemed like the same amount of time as Carley (or Doug) with just about the same amount of background details.
Well what about this, If Doug/Carly had been killed the very next ep. it would have made the choice to help meaningless (IMO) At least with keeping them alive in ep. 2 it actually allows the consequences of picking one over the other to sink in and effect the story. Create that deeper bond as you say. To take them away so quickly (in the players eyes ep 2) would have been premature.
I think Larry pretty much had to die the way he did, for the ironic effect. he was pretty much put in the same shoes as duck one ep. ago. So for Larry to be the meat person didn't have the same "poetic justice" effect.
Besides could you really see Larry going down the way Mark did?
As for Ben, not that I defend him but maybe its just not his time to shine right now. In the next ep. he should be fully vetted and explained. Who knows maybe one of the core group will die and Ben will have to step up.
New guys enters
Mark 'hi everyone I'm just here as a plot point... cya'
New guy dies...
Who cares abbout him? Not me that's for sure.
How to keep the finale the same? Push her back to the barricaded hall where a random zombie has got through.Still works. Then you carry a legless Mark through another episode while everyone tells you he's dead weight and should be left to die.
[BURP] oh, excuse me.
They gave me enough time with him to realize he was a part of my group, and you can't help but feel emotional over anyone kind with 2 legs cut off that your group is about to chow down on for dinner.
I felt very bad for Mark.
Was it just me or did we not see what happened to Mark after he crawled by the door? I remember that scene, but don't think I saw his final moments, or when he turned into a zombie (assuming he died).
There's a zombie on the stairs at the end of the episode. That's him.
How he got back upstairs is anyone's guess.
it's not hard to work out master
i reckon while danny or andy had the group at gun point, brenda and the other brother dragged him back up to the bathroom, but he died and turned and escaped..as far as the stairs. and got stuck in the railing.
If I were a St. John, Mark wouldn't have made it on my list of priorities. I mean, at the moment, we're swimming in meat.
Fair enough. You made good points, and I can't really argue with them. But seriously, does anyone really think Mark would have made a worse new main cast character than Ben? Ben better be some mega useful dude in e3 or I'll throw him to the walkers just to slow them down for a minute.
Yeah, good points. I thought about what you said before I wrote my post, but I still think it's an acceptable choice to kill off Carly/Doug right after saving them. I mean, if everyone is REALLY at risk, then they shouldn't be 'safe' just because we saved them last episode. They should have the same chance of survival as everyone else (I'm not saying they don't, just that they should imo).
As for Larry, yeah--I could see him going down the way Mark did. I'd let Clem eat his entire body without stopping her, haha! Seriously though, you're right--from a dramatic standpoint Larry couldn't have been swapped for Mark very effectively, but I think a lot of people would have been ok with Katja or (best idea ever!) Duck being the catch of the day. I know Duck isn't much of a meal, but it would be the only useful thing he'd ever done in his life.
And you're right about Ben, I didn't really give him a chance. I'll be patient and see how he shapes up in e3 before I insult him any further. He does seem like a nice guy at least (like Mark, poor bastard). You never know who's got reserves of strength and courage you'd never expect--like Doug. Not many people would take a look at Doug and guess he'd be the type to risk his ass to save someone he doesn't even know, but he did. Which is why I saved him. Karma.
Whew, pressure is on. Glad I'm not Ben. I don't think Ben is main cast character material (not that being a main cast character protects you somehow). Maybe he knows how to operate a train... ha ha.
Mark was a yes man, who curried favor with whomever was closest and created conflict, as evidenced by his parroting Lee to Larry. He caved to Lee's opinion every time. He seemed nice only because he was agreeable.
As to the second part quoted, are you really willing to chow down on your only medical expertise because she doesn't meet your esthetic preferences?
We didn't see anywhere near enough of his personality to make that kind of assessment of his character. I agree that he was pretty ready to jump on opportunities to put his foot in his mouth, but if the personal shortcomings you listed were his worst character traits he'd still be better than almost everyone else in the group. I still say we never got to know him well enough to judge him very effectively, though. He created a slight discomfort and potential conflict but not on purpose--he sure didn't seem to be trying to throw Lee under the bus to me. He may have seemed nice to you only because he was agreeable, but I found a bit more than that in his personality. I mean, you called him a yes man and at the same time say he created conflict. Yes men don't create conflict--they just kiss ass and go along. He was taking initiative (like volunteering info to the cannibal family which was a total idiot move imo) which is nowhere near yes man territory. They don't take initiative ever.
Anyway, I wasn't saying that Mark was the best character (that would be Clem imo) or that he was perfect. I was asking (at least half rhetorically) if Ben could possibly be a better character for the main cast than him considering what we've seen of them both. You didn't answer that, but I'd be interested to hear what you think about it. I think I'm pretty clear on how you feel about Mark.
Where did that come from? It seems you decided on 100% pure speculation that I:
A) Care about how attractive/unattractive I find any of the characters in this game,
C) Am so shallow I'd kill someone because I don't like the way they look.
Well, wrong on all accounts but what you typed certainly gives everyone a window into the way your own mind works. Assumptions just made an ass out of u.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had a crush.
By all means, please explain why you decided Katjaa, the closest thing to a doctor they have, is expendable.