Even Clems Not Trustworthy
Were all so blinded by her cuteness but I seem to be the only one here who sees a major flaw here with the radio. Everyone on this forum keeps saying "the only one i trust is clem" but she clearly doesnt trust Lee!! heres why:
in the very beginning when kenny nd lee are returning with supplies lee sees clem holding her radio clearly in a way in which you would talk on it (as opposed to admiring the new stickers). IGN just released the full walkthrough and if you forgot or dont believe you can see it on part 1 i think of their walkthrough.
then, and this is my main point, when you are discussing the plan with her, she clearly makes it apparent she wants to go look for her parents before the boat. regardless of what you choose to say in that, the whole point is she doesnt mention the man on the radio who has confirmed to her that her parents are ok. we know shes a smart girl so put yourself in her shoes, if someone told you your parents are alive wouldnt you run to lee as fast as possible to tell him? not only that but even more so to back up that your parents arent dead in an argument as to what you will do when you get to savanah
thirdly, this has clearly been going on for a pretty extended period. as the guy claims "even if lee doesnt let you" , so basically here is what im saying with respect to next episode:
if clem did not mention the guy on the radio to lee it only means one thing she trusts the guy on the radio more than lee. i think clem might willingly go with him or willingly try to seperate from lee knowing he thinks her parents are dead, which they probably are. i think just being a kid, she heard her parents and went blind to the real threat. Id realky love to see some counter argument because i cant think of any... i mean clem hasnt come to lee to tell him anything (regarding secrets) like lee did by telling her that lee was convicted (if you chose that).... maybe she thinks lee is a bad person
For comedic relief along side with a few decent points, here is a post from this thread from FankyMaloon :
In fact, I'm gonna take this even further: Clementine is totally in control of the whole operation, and has been from the beginning!
Add up the facts:
- Know any other 8-year-old kids who wouldn't be a cowering mess with soiled drawers after seeing what Clementine's seen? The only way this is possible is if she's on top of the whole situation every step of the way.
- Clementine made it clear that she almost took Lee out with a hammer when she first spotted him from her treehouse. Instead, she decided this was someone she could use for her own needs...and she has wrapped him around her little finger every step of the way since then.
- Every time Lee tells Clementine the truth, we hear "Clementine appreciated your honesty"...but Clementine has been completely dishonest about her radio, keeping her conversations 100% secret from EVERYONE.
- And how DOES she keep her walkie-talkie charged? Well, what was the story behind the broken flashlight? We never heard that its batteries were still in it...because they're not! Notice that the shards of the flashlight's glass were found right next to Clementine's chalk drawings? Ah-HAH!
- Speaking of the chalk drawings, whose pink chalk was that, making signs for the bandits on the wall, anyway? Of course, Clem lies that her pink chalk has "gone somewhere"...but WE know better, don't we? SHE dropped it at the gate when she was making the deliveries for the bandits!
- She's making sure to get rid of every annoyance: Carly was clearly a threat to her control over Lee, and had be be eliminated, so Clementine's planting evidence worked perfectly. Duck was her #1 annoyance, Clem couldn't stand him...and she didn't exactly shed a tear when Duck was out of the picture, did she?
- Clementine even convinced Ben to take the rap for her, and now Lee is silencing Ben...so she has that whole angle all sewn up, clever little thing that she is!
- Lee's dream of a Zombie Clem chomping into him is a clear indication that, deep in his heart, Lee knows Clem is not the sweet innocent girl she pretends to be.
- Clementine is in cahoots with Mr. Shadow/Silhouette Man, and probably has been since the very beginning.
- And lastly, WHERE did we see the very first walker, where was the very epicenter of this epidemic? Right near Clementine's treehouse, that's where! Did we ever SEE what Clementine was up to in that sordid treehouse of hers? No we did not!
Proof Positive: Clementine has been masterminding the whole crew, and is possibly behind the whole epidemic!
From past experience with the irony-deficient reading these forums, I probably should have placed big flashing lights and an "Irony Alert" sign on this post....
in the very beginning when kenny nd lee are returning with supplies lee sees clem holding her radio clearly in a way in which you would talk on it (as opposed to admiring the new stickers). IGN just released the full walkthrough and if you forgot or dont believe you can see it on part 1 i think of their walkthrough.
then, and this is my main point, when you are discussing the plan with her, she clearly makes it apparent she wants to go look for her parents before the boat. regardless of what you choose to say in that, the whole point is she doesnt mention the man on the radio who has confirmed to her that her parents are ok. we know shes a smart girl so put yourself in her shoes, if someone told you your parents are alive wouldnt you run to lee as fast as possible to tell him? not only that but even more so to back up that your parents arent dead in an argument as to what you will do when you get to savanah
thirdly, this has clearly been going on for a pretty extended period. as the guy claims "even if lee doesnt let you" , so basically here is what im saying with respect to next episode:
if clem did not mention the guy on the radio to lee it only means one thing she trusts the guy on the radio more than lee. i think clem might willingly go with him or willingly try to seperate from lee knowing he thinks her parents are dead, which they probably are. i think just being a kid, she heard her parents and went blind to the real threat. Id realky love to see some counter argument because i cant think of any... i mean clem hasnt come to lee to tell him anything (regarding secrets) like lee did by telling her that lee was convicted (if you chose that).... maybe she thinks lee is a bad person
For comedic relief along side with a few decent points, here is a post from this thread from FankyMaloon :
In fact, I'm gonna take this even further: Clementine is totally in control of the whole operation, and has been from the beginning!
Add up the facts:
- Know any other 8-year-old kids who wouldn't be a cowering mess with soiled drawers after seeing what Clementine's seen? The only way this is possible is if she's on top of the whole situation every step of the way.
- Clementine made it clear that she almost took Lee out with a hammer when she first spotted him from her treehouse. Instead, she decided this was someone she could use for her own needs...and she has wrapped him around her little finger every step of the way since then.
- Every time Lee tells Clementine the truth, we hear "Clementine appreciated your honesty"...but Clementine has been completely dishonest about her radio, keeping her conversations 100% secret from EVERYONE.
- And how DOES she keep her walkie-talkie charged? Well, what was the story behind the broken flashlight? We never heard that its batteries were still in it...because they're not! Notice that the shards of the flashlight's glass were found right next to Clementine's chalk drawings? Ah-HAH!
- Speaking of the chalk drawings, whose pink chalk was that, making signs for the bandits on the wall, anyway? Of course, Clem lies that her pink chalk has "gone somewhere"...but WE know better, don't we? SHE dropped it at the gate when she was making the deliveries for the bandits!
- She's making sure to get rid of every annoyance: Carly was clearly a threat to her control over Lee, and had be be eliminated, so Clementine's planting evidence worked perfectly. Duck was her #1 annoyance, Clem couldn't stand him...and she didn't exactly shed a tear when Duck was out of the picture, did she?
- Clementine even convinced Ben to take the rap for her, and now Lee is silencing Ben...so she has that whole angle all sewn up, clever little thing that she is!
- Lee's dream of a Zombie Clem chomping into him is a clear indication that, deep in his heart, Lee knows Clem is not the sweet innocent girl she pretends to be.
- Clementine is in cahoots with Mr. Shadow/Silhouette Man, and probably has been since the very beginning.
- And lastly, WHERE did we see the very first walker, where was the very epicenter of this epidemic? Right near Clementine's treehouse, that's where! Did we ever SEE what Clementine was up to in that sordid treehouse of hers? No we did not!
Proof Positive: Clementine has been masterminding the whole crew, and is possibly behind the whole epidemic!
From past experience with the irony-deficient reading these forums, I probably should have placed big flashing lights and an "Irony Alert" sign on this post....
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
You're totally right! You can't blame her because that guy is talking about her family, remember, kids are very "NAIVE". But you're totally right about her being untrustworthy.
I do agree, however, that Clem's trustworthiness will be tested in this next episode. The guy on the radio seems like a creeper, but we don't have any knowledge of him, other than he's been talking to Clem. Yeah, after all is said and done, she might deserve a spanking. :P
When you're the one choosing what he says?
Well, we do only have four, set dialogue options in most cases. Silence should not be a valid option.
Well the dialogue options seem pretty fair to me
Yeah, for the most part, but some of them don't seem to fit. I'd reword some of the statements, or pick them more carefully, in the future, though.
I don't think i've ever laughed as hard on this forum! 10/10
Clem gets the benefit of the doubt.
First, she's 8.
Second, she's trying to see her parents, not kill you or screw you over.
There are a lot of other reasons besides trust for Clem not to talk, like fear, or misunderstanding.
If I were Clem, I'd worry about you. You're paranoid and talking about an 8 year old like she's capable of sophisticated planning and deception. That's crazy. That's what drove Lilly to kill.
She wouldn't keep it a secret from Lee because "we're a team right?" She's no Ben so for now at least I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and blaming pedo threats.
Well, since Clem used it to talk to her dad (Assuming he was a good distance away), then that leads me to believe that Clemmy's dad had a system that used a repeater tower. If that's true, then the signal could be boosted for hundreds of miles. The only problem with that is, if the world ended, the repeater towers would go down sooner or later, as well, limiting her signal range.
With that in mind, given the range of a normal CB radio, within the city limits and surrounded by forests (Unless creep-o is on a rooftop, mountaintop, or anything that would elevate his position and line of direct site), without a direct line of sight, she'd have a 2-8 mile range, depending on the radio's signal strength and a lot of other factors. Personally, I wouldn't even give her that much. Maybe two, at most, given her position.
Creep-o might have a booster tower, himself, which would allow them to talk to one another, and that might be how he communicates with her. If he doesn't, then he has to be within a two mile range of the group when he communicates with Clemmy. Either way... he's still weird. :P
I wonder how she keeps it charged, though. Even with the usage of standard batteries, Doug stated that batteries were pretty nonexistent.
It's not like we (adults) haven't fu**** up much worse.
I always figured she meant between the treehouse and the house and that it was basically a toy. I'm going to have to replay ep 1 again.
There are batteries in the station wagon - Carley gives Clem some for the walkie when she gives Lee the batteries for the camera - maybe it wasn't broken at all and whatever causes the zombies to rise also gives everyone a mental block about batteries
When did the communication start? There would have to have been a little before the message for the guy to learn Lee's name, but Macon's over 100 miles from Savannah - unless the guy's driving after them, Clem really would have been pretend-talking to her parents at the start.
You know, I'm not sure if it was mentioned how she used the radio with her dad. That was two episodes back, though, and I only did three play throughs, so memory may not serve (Did Glenn take that one when he left? If so, then the range would be implied). Christa does mention how "important" her radio is, however, so I doubt she'd say something like that about a cheap, child's toy (The toy ones didn't have jack for range).
I remember the batteries in the wagon, but those looked like double A's, and wouldn't have lasted too long, regardless of how little she used it.
We don't know if the guy told Clemmy to keep quiet about things, or if he told her to say the radio was broken (So no one else would want to carry, or use it). These conversations could have been happening for a while. It just boggles me, with so many people around, that absolutely NO ONE noticed her talking to someone (The radio static, or squelch noise).
Really? No. I havnt heard a hint about clem not being trustworthy which now she is.
The fact is Clem didnt mention this pretty immenent threat to Lee... now im pretty sure noone is following them because that would be a stupid plot hole. i know shes a kid and if i had to place my trust with anyone it would still be Clem. im just shocked that clearly she has been talking to this man recently and did not tell Lee.If she was threatened I forgive her because I being 8 in that situation I would do the same thing.
I mean there's a difference between the trust between Ken and Lee and the trust between Lee and Clem.
I notice this too, and was going to mention this in the post but its such a small group without the deaths that Clem really is the only person regardless of age who you could trust. Kenny is reliable but untrustworthy.
I just wanted to point this out, because it doesn't appear that anybody else has mentioned it... In episode 3, when Lee and Kenny return to the Motel, Clem is clearly talking on her radio.
Also, in the trailer for episode 4, the stranger seems to warn Lee about Savannah.
I don't know much about walkie talkies, or their range or battery life, but it definitely seems like this guy is in Savannah.
Look, in real life, it's a tragedy any kids are abused. That monstrous man Jerry Sandusky hurt so many people.
And no one would think to blame the kids b/c they didn't say anything. No parent would think, "I can't trust my kid anymore."
She's 8. She's been living in hell. She misses her parents. She's obviously being manipulated.
If anybody thinks she is even capable of some elaborate plan to manipulate Lee with cuteness to lead him to his demise then...wow. I mean, really?
For people that can't trust Clem, what do you think this 8 year old's end game is? What is she trying to accomplish? How do you think she is trying to hurt you?
I am not saying Clem is a bad person at all, she is still kind hearted and obviously has been through alot (and that is under-stating it) but even if she is being manipulated with a threat, I dont understand hpw the whole time Lee wouldnt find out unless she is intentionally concealing something. She isnt planning to hurt Lee, but she is willing to leave him in a heart beat if there is even the slightest possibility of her parents.
Even now knowing about the guy on the radio you still cant trust her now because whatever you tell her, she may relay to the guy on the radio and that could be critical information. Shes a really smart girl so what I am saying (that can not be disputed given the information from episode 3) is that even though she isnt planing to hurt lee she could unitentionally be. I mean she is leading them right into a pedo that could be dangerous, not alone, with weapons, psycotic , etc
I think that maybe (hopefully) this is where the choices in how we treat Clem come into play. Perhaps the better the relationship she has with Lee, the better her odds are of staying with him rather than going off with the guy on the walkie. Despite his claim of having her parents.
If she trusts Lee enough, she might listen to him tell her that the guy on the walkie could be dangerous. Otherwise, she probably won't and will go off with him. I can see that as a plausible story arc.
Obviously her master plan is to get infinite amount of candy and toys. Lee is just a pawn in her game.
*Spoiler from comic* Ben and Billy were around Clementine's age. Both their parents were killed by zombies. The events affected them but they both behaved rather indifferently about the situation. A couple of months later, Ben essentially slaughters his brother and justifies it by saying that everyone comes back after they die. The group discusses whether to kill Ben or not and in the ensuing night, Carl shoots him. *End of spoiler*
Now I'm not comparing Clementine to a murdering psychopath, but to say that she can't be trustworthy just because she is a kid is wrong and naive. The event above is an example from TWD universe.
In fact, I'm gonna take this even further: Clementine is totally in control of the whole operation, and has been from the beginning!
Add up the facts:
- Know any other 8-year-old kids who wouldn't be a cowering mess with soiled drawers after seeing what Clementine's seen? The only way this is possible is if she's on top of the whole situation every step of the way.
- Clementine made it clear that she almost took Lee out with a hammer when she first spotted him from her treehouse. Instead, she decided this was someone she could use for her own needs...and she has wrapped him around her little finger every step of the way since then.
- Every time Lee tells Clementine the truth, we hear "Clementine appreciated your honesty"...but Clementine has been completely dishonest about her radio, keeping her conversations 100% secret from EVERYONE.
- And how DOES she keep her walkie-talkie charged? Well, what was the story behind the broken flashlight? We never heard that its batteries were still in it...because they're not! Notice that the shards of the flashlight's glass were found right next to Clementine's chalk drawings? Ah-HAH!
- Speaking of the chalk drawings, whose pink chalk was that, making signs for the bandits on the wall, anyway? Of course, Clem lies that her pink chalk has "gone somewhere"...but WE know better, don't we? SHE dropped it at the gate when she was making the deliveries for the bandits!
- She's making sure to get rid of every annoyance: Carly was clearly a threat to her control over Lee, and had be be eliminated, so Clementine's planting evidence worked perfectly. Duck was her #1 annoyance, Clem couldn't stand him...and she didn't exactly shed a tear when Duck was out of the picture, did she?
- Clementine even convinced Ben to take the rap for her, and now Lee is silencing Ben...so she has that whole angle all sewn up, clever little thing that she is!
- Lee's dream of a Zombie Clem chomping into him is a clear indication that, deep in his heart, Lee knows Clem is not the sweet innocent girl she pretends to be.
- Clementine is in cahoots with Mr. Shadow/Silhouette Man, and probably has been since the very beginning.
- And lastly, WHERE did we see the very first walker, where was the very epicenter of this epidemic? Right near Clementine's treehouse, that's where! Did we ever SEE what Clementine was up to in that sordid treehouse of hers? No we did not!
Proof Positive: Clementine has been masterminding the whole crew, and is possibly behind the whole epidemic!
From past experience with the irony-deficient reading these forums, I probably should have placed big flashing lights and an "Irony Alert" sign on this post....
lol loved this!
Don't forget that after you kill the cop walker, you can see Clementine observing you from a distance! She sent it after you, but after realizing your resourcefulness she decided to make you her pawn! Diabolical!
I get your point and I think you're right.
There are a lot of reasons to trust Clem, however, that has nothing to do with her age.
And your example is an obvious outlier, which you admit yourself, so I don't think it's the strongest argument but it's a valid point.
What the hell is going on here Red? Are you the only voice of reason?
Clems not some evil genius who destroyed the planet with a zombie plague.
Here is what happened -
Clem and Lee talked and agreed to find her parents when they get to Savannah. Clem, in her excitement, used her radio to contact her parents once the train was close to Savannah.
Some pervert with a radio frequency scanner picked up Clem's transmissions and responded. He's telling her whatever lies it takes to get close to her and bring her in range to abduct her. Lee intercepeted a follow up transmission from the perv....
In the e4 preview, it looks like Lee set up an ambush for the pervert but it did not go well and he gets away...or does he?
It's true I often don't have the option to side with a certain character or just state my own opinion/viewpoint as Lee. He ALWAYS has one character he prefers to side with in each argument it seems.. at least by the end of it.
Psychopaths are kids at some stage too. By age 5 most fundamental personality traits are set in stone.
Personally I think Clem is just being used and has been mislead that if she talked about her radio use, it would be bad for her parents. She's just doing what she has been told by the only person she thinks can help her get to her parents..
Oh, but she IS!
And who was her very first victim?
The bane of children everywhere who have been abandoned by their parents.....
THE BABYSITTER!