Thoughts about the Zombie genre

2

Comments

  • edited September 2012
    Yeah, I would. I don't believe in country now and I especially wouldn't believe in one when all communication and structure has fallen apart. I'd choose my family over that any day. Would you rather die with people you love or fighting a futile war over something that doesn't exist anymore? That may apply to people more "noble" than me, but whatever. Nobility is for tangible concepts like family and people.

    Oh, I'd be right and ready to defend my family, along with my friends as well. But, I know many people in the Canadian Armed Forces that would surely stick with their country, and defend it with their lives, should their lives depend on it.

    I just see it unlikely that such a fault in the US military would occur. It wouldn't even take a large military force to take on zombie hordes. It isn't like the undead do much planning.

    Upon evacuating areas, the military would blare messages that they would be ceasing target discretion, and that civilians must declare themselves or be fired upon, as they rove the streets in armored vehicles with large caliber weapons, and attack helicopters, along with support helicopters fly overhead, combining to mow down zombies with ease.
  • edited September 2012
    I'm positive that Walking Dead is supernatural..

    Now that's very interesting, so what do you think was the catalyst?
  • edited September 2012
    I'm positive that Walking Dead is supernatural.

    That would be awesome, actually.

    I'm so sick of virus this, space radiation that, random cosmic fart the other... etc..
  • edited September 2012
    In the Walking Dead it is clearly an Airborne virus, how else would everybody be infected?
  • edited September 2012
    At the same time, all over the world? Outside of the jet-stream?
  • edited September 2012
    I mean, the ZA could make sense in US where they are the results of nuclear testing
    But ZAs are always global and most countries dont have that kind of technology; and really the dead rising doesnt hold alot of water in the realm of science. We just kind of take the effect: 'The dead are rising..shit, lemme get the shotgun' without really analyzing a cause.
    But again, how do you rationally justify something that ends humanity??
  • edited September 2012
    Wow what a great refreshing topic of conversation here, its not about bringing carley back and complaining about the release dates....

    now as far as generalization here that organized military forces (in this case we ll say USA) wouldnt collapse so easily is a very narrow minded statement. First off a good chunk of american military forces arent even in the USA, but stationed overseas or not actively waiting for a disaster type situation of this magnitude. Most of the initial response units would be national guardsman, and i dont really think theyre outfitted in APCs, tanks, and attack helicopters, those are mostly stationed overseas for actual conflicts not domestic disputes. i dont think theres a military force present thats ready to fight tens of millions.. even a hundred million zombies walking around in their country.

    The major problem in twd universe is you dont even have to just have conventional infection spreading the virus. Starvation, violence, and any generic death of citizens grows the rank of the undead. Read WWZ and reput in some of the fiction from twd universe and ull understand why things are so dire so quickly.

    Also id like to point out its never 100% confirmed theres zero military, zero government forces left on earth, its assumed because of the lack of infrastructure theyve come across so far. By leaving it to imagination it actually leads you to conclude your own opinions and make it more personal.
  • edited September 2012
    Also, in the Night of the Living dead, once they survived the night it seemed like the good ole boys rallied up with the local cops and were nonchalantly picking off dead one by, like a massive duck hunt.
    That's my 2nd biggest peeve with the ZA. There probably enough guns in the US alone to kill each walker;raise him and kill him again. And Im not talking the cops/military. Some states, all they DO is collect guns/ammo

    Where's Aeons, I need to hear more of this Supernatural theory
  • edited September 2012
    Xarne wrote: »
    Also, in the Night of the Living dead, once they survived the night it seemed like the good ole boys rallied up with the local cops and were nonchalantly picking off dead one by, like a massive duck hunt.
    That's my 2nd biggest peeve with the ZA. There probably enough guns in the US alone to kill each walker;raise him and kill him again. And Im not talking the cops/military. Some states, all they DO is collect guns/ammo

    Where's Aeons, I need to hear more of this Supernatural theory


    hey man not to say there wouldnt be lots of that, but problem is ud have states like NY, IL, NJ, PA, WA, MD, etc that would be up shit creek due to to the mass city centres in them that are NOT gun toting centres. The population of new york city as zombies is more than the population of half of the inner states combined.

    Also supernatural theory isnt really gonna end up being expressed, kirkman has pretty much explicitly said he will never tell the source of the infection till the very end if at all, it ruins the fiction and the mystery of the next installment dropping more clues to why everything hit the fan. I think as "supernatural" ull ever hear in the show/comics/game is people concluding god's wrath and the second coming jesus predicted where the dead walk the earth.... its already been expressed in multiple characters across the mediums
  • edited September 2012
    Plus if you guys remember in Episode 1 in the pharmacy when the Zombies are about to break in, the group hears machine gun fire and helicopters. Sounded like the military to me
  • edited September 2012
    The Zombie genre is only good when it's focused on the survivors, their internal problems and relationships. It's the social and psychological effects on people that I am really interested in. I don't give a shit about slaughtering zombies in thousands. It's all about well-written and interesting stories with good development and good storytwists. To witness the harsh struggle for survival when society and humanity as we know them are over and see how people would react to that.
  • edited September 2012
    Zhombre wrote: »
    hey man not to say there wouldnt be lots of that, but problem is ud have states like NY, IL, NJ, PA, WA, MD, etc that would be up shit creek due to to the mass city centres in them that are NOT gun toting centres. The population of new york city as zombies is more than the population of half of the inner states combined.

    Also supernatural theory isnt really gonna end up being expressed, kirkman has pretty much explicitly said he will never tell the source of the infection till the very end if at all, it ruins the fiction and the mystery of the next installment dropping more clues to why everything hit the fan. I think as "supernatural" ull ever hear in the show/comics/game is people concluding god's wrath and the second coming jesus predicted where the dead walk the earth.... its already been expressed in multiple characters across the mediums

    yea the democratic states are totally screwed lol (the north)
    the mid west and south will last way longer than the city slickers.

    I wasnt particularly looking for the explanation to Kirkman's ZA, any ZA would do
  • edited September 2012
    Xarne wrote: »
    Now that's very interesting, so what do you think was the catalyst?

    The rise of Justin Bieber. Our planet really needed to be cleansed after that.
  • edited September 2012
    Xarne wrote: »
    yea the democratic states are totally screwed lol (the north)
    the mid west and south will last way longer than the city slickers.

    I wasnt particularly looking for the explanation to Kirkman's ZA, any ZA would do


    yea its not usually common in zombie fiction (at least good zombie fiction) to give a complete origin story because the actual mechanics of dead people walking around is flawed in its foundation. There isnt a current scientific reasoning to why it would happen, and thats why a "supernatural" (ie god, space dust, tainted meat etc) causes the initial effects of the outbreak and your left to your devices to why that happened. like zombie land a guy ate a tainted burger, and boom patient zero. like i didnt really require more of an explanation to understand or make the story more legitimate. Same thing with shaun of the dead, dawn of the dead, night of the living dead. They all arent too specific and dont focus on the origins of the events and thats partially why theyre interesting, it allows u to come up with ur own conclusions.
  • edited September 2012
    The rise of Justin Bieber. Our planet really needed to be cleansed after that.

    Thanks for that Marley, I swear I wouldnt have been able to sleep tonight if someone didnt lay it all out for me.
  • edited September 2012
    In the Walking Dead it is clearly an Airborne virus, how else would everybody be infected?

    Come on. Jenner can't find a virus and Kirkman says it's not a virus and the reaction to that is to say it's airborne? God. No, it's not a virus. If you want a better idea of what it is, think about why Hershel was put in the story. Maggie says that zombies disprove religion, Hershel says they're proof of religion. He then goes into great detail about the end of days and how it applies to them "dead walk the earth" and whatnot. Kirkman brought the CDC in to the TV finale as a way of saying "there is no medical explanation". There was no detectable virus, no cause behind anything. Kirkman hammered religion into the world pretty hard.

    I think that this is the Christian apocalpyse told without god. In that, you have the dead forever returning as undead as a supernatural phenomena. It can't be cured or understood. It's magic in a world without magic. The more people try to understand it, the more it fits into mythology. I don't believe there will ever be an explanation for the event from Kirkman's standpoint.

    If you want to read it for yourself, check out the shooting practice scenes in the comic. It's hard not to think that Kirkman is expositing for us. Note, this doesn't make the series religious, it just uses that ruleset as a harder environment.

    And most other zombie apocalypse works have explanations. Rage monkeys, radiation, viruses. It's all bullshit. I'd take no answer any day.
  • edited September 2012
    Come on. Jenner can't find a virus and Kirkman says it's not a virus and the reaction to that is to say it's airborne? God. No, it's not a virus. If you want a better idea of what it is, think about why Hershel was put in the story. Maggie says that zombies disprove religion, Hershel says they're proof of religion. He then goes into great detail about the end of days and how it applies to them "dead walk the earth" and whatnot. Kirkman brought the CDC in to the TV finale as a way of saying "there is no medical explanation". There was no detectable virus, no cause behind anything. Kirkman hammered religion into the world pretty hard.

    I think that this is the Christian apocalpyse told without god. In that, you have the dead forever returning as undead as a supernatural phenomena. It can't be cured or understood. It's magic in a world without magic. The more people try to understand it, the more it fits into mythology. I don't believe there will ever be an explanation for the event from Kirkman's standpoint.

    If you want to read it for yourself, check out the shooting practice scenes in the comic. It's hard not to think that Kirkman is expositing for us.

    well said, although he never completely takes it away either.. jenner said the french were extremely close to a cure before it went black. its all speculation to spurn these kind of conversations and continue interest because we ll never know... for 100% sure.
  • edited September 2012
    I'd take no answer any day.

    Agreed, 1000%.

    The more you explain something, the more you demystify it.

    And the explanation almost never meets the expectation.
  • edited September 2012
    Come on. Jenner can't find a virus and Kirkman says it's not a virus and the reaction to that is to say it's airborne? God. No, it's not a virus. If you want a better idea of what it is, think about why Hershel was put in the story. Maggie says that zombies disprove religion, Hershel says they're proof of religion. He then goes into great detail about the end of days and how it applies to them "dead walk the earth" and whatnot. Kirkman brought the CDC in to the TV finale as a way of saying "there is no medical explanation". There was no detectable virus, no cause behind anything. Kirkman hammered religion into the world pretty hard.

    I think that this is the Christian apocalpyse told without god. In that, you have the dead forever returning as undead as a supernatural phenomena. It can't be cured or understood. It's magic in a world without magic. The more people try to understand it, the more it fits into mythology. I don't believe there will ever be an explanation for the event from Kirkman's standpoint.

    If you want to read it for yourself, check out the shooting practice scenes in the comic. It's hard not to think that Kirkman is expositing for us. Note, this doesn't make the series religious, it just uses that ruleset as a harder environment.

    And most other zombie apocalypse works have explanations. Rage monkeys, radiation, viruses. It's all bullshit. I'd take no answer any day.

    blah; bible thumping
    I thought you were gonna come back with the 3 gods of the NorthStar were at war with the heavens and all that...or someone ate spoiled goat meet during a sacrifice haha
    I'll stick to my suspension of disbelief and just go for the shotgun :)
  • edited September 2012
    Zhombre wrote: »
    well said, although he never completely takes it away either.. jenner said the french were extremely close to a cure before it went black. its all speculation to spurn these kind of conversations and continue interest because we ll never know... for 100% sure.

    No the french were the last holdouts. No one was anywhere started on a cure.
    Xarne wrote: »
    blah; bible thumping
    I thought you were gonna come back with the 3 gods of the NorthStar were at war with the heavens and all that...or someone ate spoiled goat meet during a sacrifice haha
    I'll stick to my suspension of disbelief and just go for the shotgun :)

    Haha, no that's stupid. It's not bible thumping it's mythology. I said like twenty times its an atheistic take. If you read the comic its full of people reading religious significance into the events. Religion or not, there won't be a second coming.
  • edited September 2012
    ya but we're talking about people on the bible belt; indoctrinated
    they see Jesus in Doritos lol, anything short of a bright sunshiny day is the wrath of God
  • edited September 2012
    I've always liked the psychology of zombie lore and the parallels in modern society; the "us" and "them" and the struggle to survive. It says something about our society, regardless of nationality, that so many are drawn to this genre. The "why" is irrelevant, but I like the idea of mutation rather than infection because it implies what's done can't be undone, deal with it.
    WD40 wrote: »
    ...but I highly doubt that even with how the apocalypse works in TWD that an army in a highly developed country would fall flat against such a crisis.

    ...Humanity, when held in the face of disaster can fall quite short. But, humanity when held in the face of adversity is a sheer force to be reckoned with.

    You (if you haven't and I'm assuming no), really need to read WWZ. You'll like it I promise. In fact, I'd lend you mine if I actually knew you.
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    Ah, winter, the best time to "clean house."

    Absolutely! Stay off my mountain.
    Well, it was going to be lively discourse, but no one met me on the field of honour.

    Windmill?
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    I've always liked the psychology of zombie lore and the parallels in modern society; the "us" and "them" and the struggle to survive. It says something about our society, regardless of nationality, that so many are drawn to this genre.



    You (If you haven't and I'm assuming no), really need to read WWZ. You'll like it I promise. In fact, I'd lend you mine if I actually knew you.

    That's why I love just about everything containing zombies. The statements about our society as well as human nature is something I really enjoy. The way the characters interact in "The Walking Dead" made me fall in love with the genre all over again. Edit: I also love seeing the reactions of the other folks here in regards to the game. Seeing them change how they play and alter their decisions is pretty cool.

    I've seen several of you mentioning WWZ. Does it follow a single group of survivors or is it on a much larger scale? If so, I'll check it out. I can't recall if I've seen or read anything like that.

    Also Xarne, sorry dude. I couldn't help myself with the Beiber joke. :P
  • edited September 2012

    I've seen several of you mentioning WWZ. Does it follow a single group of survivors or is it on a much larger scale? If so, I'll check it out. I can't recall if I've seen or read anything like that.

    I'm d/l it now, everyone keeps talking about
  • edited September 2012
    I've seen several of you mentioning WWZ. Does it follow a single group of survivors or is it on a much larger scale? If so, I'll check it out. I can't recall if I've seen or read anything like that.

    World War Z is written by Max Brooks as a collection of interviews with survivors starting at the beginning of the outbreak on an international scale. The interviews are broken up so you will have further chapters throughout the book from some of the same survivors as the conflict progresses.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    World War Z is written by Max Brooks as a collection of interviews with survivors starting at the beginning of the outbreak on an international scale. The interviews are broken up so you will have further chapters throughout the book from some of the same survivors as the conflict progresses.

    That was extremely lazy of me, sorry. I should've just googled it but thanks for taking the time! I decided to pick up the book at least (might as well use this kindle, haha). I do have one other question for you though. I noticed on the wiki that it's a sequel, should I grab the first book or is WWZ fine as a stand alone?

    Derp, never mind. My reading comprehension is completely gone.
  • edited September 2012
    Hey, I like talking about books, no problem.

    WWZ stands alone, it's not really a sequel, the other book is The Zombie Survival Guide and is written more as a reference book.
  • edited September 2012
    I've only read the Zombie Survival Guide. I strongly disagree with a lot of it, but it made me want a set of trench spikes.
    Cyreen wrote: »
    Windmill?

    John Lithgow was there, but he screamed about his sister and tried to strangle me.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    You (if you haven't and I'm assuming no), really need to read WWZ. You'll like it I promise. In fact, I'd lend you mine if I actually knew you.

    Oh, I've read it. A great book too. It actually addresses the 'why' that is often missed. I just feel that any competent strategist would know how to handle such a threat, and that there would be a public uprising to quell such a thing, and fast. This is doubly true for TWD universe, where it was much more sudden, and less subtle than in WWZ. In WWZ it is plausible that the gov't had screwed up their response because of the pussy-footing of the subject of 'undead' and such. In TWD, by stark contrast, it just freaking happens in days, not weeks nor months as is in WWZ. To top it off the dead rise no matter the reason, which would provoke a sure and fast response.

    I just feel that the whole zombie thing, in realism-terms, is better held under scrutiny if the situation is isolated. If it is a worldwide pandemic, then reasons why it would fail are easier to find, and as such, I find that an isolated situation that focuses on the survivors in that situation is much more believable, and relies less my willful disbarring of reality to understand how it happened.

    For example, a lab with a large research team accidentally makes a zombie virus, all of the staff zombify, other than X amount of survivors, and the story follows those people. It just plays out more realistically. They A: don't know what is going on yet, due to it just happening, and not due to what seems like willful ignorance shared by everyone in other zombie media, and B: must simply survive in an enclosed situation, which is much more believable in the short term.


    WWZ is very much more realistic than most forms of zombie fiction, but take into account one thing that makes it much less likely that it could happen: the virus isn't airborne. Every virus that is only transferred by fluid to fluid contact has not had a large impact on human civilization. Even if the infection causes the affected to quite impervious to most damage, bite contact is very inefficient. The entire thing would be contained so quickly it wouldn't lead to any sort of epidemic. Now, had it been airborne, or in the case of TWD, already affect everyone, that would be very different, but it wasn't. In reality WWZ wouldn't have happened because of the ineffective transfer method.

    Don't get me wrong I enjoy things like TWD, it is just that they don't hold up as well under scrutiny, and as such must be enjoyed without that level of said scrutiny. Most zombie fiction is very weak against high levels of scrutiny, and although TWD and WWZ hold up better, none are able to escape its wrath.
  • edited September 2012
    WD40 wrote: »
    Most zombie fiction is very weak against high levels of scrutiny, and although TWD and WWZ hold up better, none are able to escape its wrath.

    I think you lack imagination (sorry). Ultimately the "why" is irrelevant from the survivor perspective, but I can think of all kinds of possible scenarios that could lead to a "supernatural" pandemic.

    Regardless of how it's transmitted, whether a global mutation or viral infection, it would spread because of human failings, i.e. panic, despair and denial.

    Nobody is automatically going to jump into zombie defense mode, when it's their parent, spouse or child that's suddenly attacking. That first initial call to the police will be logged as a domestic dispute and they'd be lucky if they get there within the hour, by which time, it's already spreading. The living infected would hide their inflictions due to fear and disbelief (somewhat like finding a suspicious lump and avoiding the doctor's office). All it takes is one passenger on a airplane to spread from one continent to the next. Not to mention all those people who would contain and protect a zombie loved one in the hopes of finding a cure, regardless of existing zombie lore.

    Really, zombies are somewhat irrelevant, it could be any pandemic. The story isn't the disease, it's survival.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    I think you lack imagination
    *Cyreen strangles WD40*

    Jeez, it's a fantasy story, not an airtight documentary. Do you guys even enjoy fiction?
  • edited September 2012
    Jeez, it's a fantasy story, not an airtight documentary. Do you guys even enjoy fiction?

    That wasn't intended to be hostile and, yes, I love fiction - otherwise I wouldn't be here. The point of my post, is that while I do understand the need for a story to be somewhat plausible, I don't understand why zombies seem so implausible to some people. It doesn't require a great deal of imagination to fill in the blanks.
  • edited September 2012
    Oh, none of that was meant as a criticism of you, CyDuckie. I just think there's a line between a desire for plausibility and restricting creativity. And your opening line was too Darth Vader to not imagine a strangulation.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    I think you lack imagination (sorry). Ultimately the "why" is irrelevant from the survivor perspective, but I can think of all kinds of possible scenarios that could lead to a "supernatural" pandemic.

    Regardless of how it's transmitted, whether a global mutation or viral infection, it would spread because of human failings, i.e. panic, despair and denial.

    Nobody is automatically going to jump into zombie defense mode, when it's their parent, spouse or child that's suddenly attacking. That first initial call to the police will be logged as a domestic dispute and they'd be lucky if they get there within the hour, by which time, it's already spreading. The living infected would hide their inflictions due to fear and disbelief (somewhat like finding a suspicious lump and avoiding the doctor's office). All it takes is one passenger on a airplane to spread from one continent to the next. Not to mention all those people who would contain and protect a zombie loved one in the hopes of finding a cure, regardless of existing zombie lore.

    Really, zombies are somewhat irrelevant, it could be any pandemic. The story isn't the disease, it's survival.

    I disagree. I would dare say that compared to threats caused by natural disasters, people- especially Americans, are prepared for a ZA. I'll even go one step further and say if a ZA started in America at 11pm, we'd have it practically controlled and handled by 7pm AND have groups started to preserve and protect the zombies from those nasty threat of humans.

    That's the one thing I hated about the Walking Dead comics but sort of like about the game, in this canon everyone is a stupid-spineless-hipster that can't do anything but screw and die. At least in the game they are not as stupid and spineless as the people in the comics.
  • edited September 2012
    Oh, none of that was meant as a criticism of you, CyDuckie... your opening line was too Darth Vader

    You've been demoted from Zombie Boy to Wanker and where in my post did I wheeze? Play nice.
    I disagree. I would dare say that compared to threats caused by natural disasters, people- especially Americans, are prepared for a ZA.

    Damn, bring it on! Just so I can stand on my mountain and go "Ha, ha!"
  • edited September 2012
    Okay, no more CyDuck. :(

    But the line is "I find your lack of (faith) disturbing" which matches up nicely to what you said. I didn't mean to call you a badass burn victim with magic powers.
  • edited September 2012
    Apology accepted. I'm good with the magic powers part... the badass part is okay too.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    I think you lack imagination (sorry). Ultimately the "why" is irrelevant from the survivor perspective, but I can think of all kinds of possible scenarios that could lead to a "supernatural" pandemic.

    Oh, I have good imagination (I'm a writer (or I at least am trying to be)). My point is that to enjoy ZA fiction, one can't shine the light, or you'll see the man behind the curtains.

    Can I and do I enjoy ZA fiction? Yes and yes. I just do so without thinking about how it wouldn't work. If I find myself thinking about how it is supposed to work, I will find myself finding reasons it doesn't, and as such I just don't do that, and I enjoy the fiction as it should be enjoyed.
  • edited September 2012
    You ever see Dawn the The Dead (remake), where the zombies finally break into the mall and run up the stairwell? They get to the flight just before the survivors and pause. It's like a three second beat before they start moving again. They just stare for a bit. It's supposed to be a suspenseful moment. I, instead shout, DO SOMETHING.
  • edited September 2012
    ok so I got halfway through WWZ- really good stuff. Puts a much more realistic view of what a ZA would be in modern times
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