Kirkman on bites

edited October 2012 in The Walking Dead
I Decided to look it up this what i found not sure if its true but it says they quoting Kirkman on the bites and turning into a zombie.

Robert Kirkman wrote:
The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus."[3]

So if Lee does not get a fever or have lots of blood loss he wont become a zombie.
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Comments

  • edited October 2012
    Except the infections caused by bites are 100% lethal.
  • edited October 2012
    The bacterial inoculum of human bite wounds is rich in oral flora, as saliva contains as many as 100 million organisms per milliliter, representing as many as 190 different species. Moreover, most of these injuries occur on the hands, and hand wounds of any cause have a higher infection rate than do similar wounds in other anatomic locations.

    And these aren't healthy people doing the biting. Decaying bodies are bacteria factories.
  • edited October 2012
    What if you pour bleach on it immediately?
  • edited October 2012
    Took this off a medical website about fighting infections without antibotics


    Dr. Bergner said that Herring's Law of Cure was developed from observations made at a homeopathic hospital. It appears that smallpox went through one wing of the hospital and all the patients came down with the disease. When they got the smallpox, the symptoms of their original illness, mumps, fever, etc. disappeared. After successfully treating the patients homeopathically for smallpox, however, the original disease they had returned. What Dr. Herring hypothesized was this: When the body is fighting off one disease, and another more serious threat is presented to the body, the body will quit fighting off the first disease and tackle the more serious problem. Once the system has rid itself of the more serious threat, it will go back to work on the less serious illness. This is why Herring's law tells us that the body heals "in reverse order of symptoms suppressed." In his lecture, Paul Bergner, said that when people have infections they are manifesting good symptoms of a healing crisis, fever, inflammation, etc. Then, we introduce an antibiotic, a concentrated mold toxin, into the system. The body takes a look at the mold toxin and says, "Wo! We have a serious threat here." So, it quits fighting the infection and starts working to get rid of the mold toxin. Thus, the symptoms of infection disappear.
  • edited October 2012
    Sugar---and its cousin, honey---have been used to treat wounds for thousands of years. Modern research has proven its medical abilities, including providing topical nutrition, stimulating tissue growth, reducing inflammation and exhibiting broad-spectrum antimicrobial action. Battlefield conditions require effective, inexpensive, easy-to-use and non-toxic methods for treating wounds. Sugar meets these conditions and should be included in all medic supply kits.
  • edited October 2012
    AceStarr wrote: »
    Took this off a medical website about fighting infections without antibotics


    Dr. Bergner said that Herring's Law of Cure was developed from observations made at a homeopathic hospital. It appears that smallpox went through one wing of the hospital and all the patients came down with the disease. When they got the smallpox, the symptoms of their original illness, mumps, fever, etc. disappeared. After successfully treating the patients homeopathically for smallpox, however, the original disease they had returned. What Dr. Herring hypothesized was this: When the body is fighting off one disease, and another more serious threat is presented to the body, the body will quit fighting off the first disease and tackle the more serious problem. Once the system has rid itself of the more serious threat, it will go back to work on the less serious illness. This is why Herring's law tells us that the body heals "in reverse order of symptoms suppressed." In his lecture, Paul Bergner, said that when people have infections they are manifesting good symptoms of a healing crisis, fever, inflammation, etc. Then, we introduce an antibiotic, a concentrated mold toxin, into the system. The body takes a look at the mold toxin and says, "Wo! We have a serious threat here." So, it quits fighting the infection and starts working to get rid of the mold toxin. Thus, the symptoms of infection disappear.

    "successfully treated the patients homeopathically"
    ya... you might want to check your source there
  • edited October 2012
    I'm not sure what Kirkman's on about. In The Walking Dead, bites are a death sentence. I can recall several occasions where a character gets a minor bite but still dies or has to get a limb cut off. Maybe its just that its impossible not to get a bad infection from a bite.
  • edited October 2012
    Its the equivalent to getting bit by a komodo-dragon, you Die from the bite not because of the wound, but because of whats on the wound, Lee will end up dying, dont try to fool yourself, the comics have shown it doesn't care and TTG is trying to mirror him, He is Dead people... I don't like it either but Lee is gone come episode 5.
  • edited October 2012
    The problem is dead people don't have saliva in their mouth. Or they shouldn't, but what do facts matters?

    And what deadly infection can you get from a human bite? Komodo dragons, like regular house cats, have deadly saliva. Again, dead people don't salivate...
  • edited October 2012
    They don't walk around and eat either. Your point?
  • edited October 2012
    In kirmans world they actually do salivate, considering he said so himself....lol
  • edited October 2012
    In kirmans world they actually do salivate, considering he said so himself....lol

    Is that right? haha
  • edited October 2012
    Red Panda wrote: »
    The problem is dead people don't have saliva in their mouth. Or they shouldn't, but what do facts matters?

    And what deadly infection can you get from a human bite? Komodo dragons, like regular house cats, have deadly saliva. Again, dead people don't salivate...

    Its not the saliva of a komodo dragon that is so toxic, its the bacteria they've accumulated inside of the saliva, you can't tell me a human who is rotting like a zombie on the walking dead wouldn't pass just as much bacteria onto a wound by biting it, saliva or not, even though I am almost positive they do have saliva.
  • edited October 2012
    Its not the saliva of a komodo dragon that is so toxic, its the bacteria they've accumulated inside of the saliva, you can't tell me a human who is rotting like a zombie on the walking dead wouldn't pass just as much bacteria onto a wound by biting it, saliva or not, even though I am almost positive they do have saliva.

    Bacteria don't breed well in dry places, which is why they thrive in saliva. A corpse dries out pretty quickly.

    So, to answer your question, that's exactly what I'm telling you.

    It's not like logic, biology or physics apply in the world so it's kind of a pointless debate.
  • edited October 2012
    Red Panda wrote: »
    Bacteria don't breed well in dry places, which is why they thrive in saliva. A corpse dries out pretty quickly.

    So, to answer your question, that's exactly what I'm telling you.

    It's not like logic, biology or physics apply in the world so it's kind of a pointless debate.

    It's never a pointless debate.
  • edited October 2012
    It's never a pointless debate.

    Well, since kirkman said that walkers Have got saliva, it IS a pointless debate.
  • edited October 2012
    Red Panda wrote: »
    Bacteria don't breed well in dry places, which is why they thrive in saliva. A corpse dries out pretty quickly.

    So, to answer your question, that's exactly what I'm telling you.

    It's not like logic, biology or physics apply in the world so it's kind of a pointless debate.
    Well it really depends on the bacterium or the viral agent in question.
    There are viruses that can live on external surfaces for up to a year.
    There are bacteria that can stand extreme temperatures.
    The fact is we don't know what's in the average walkers mouth.
  • edited October 2012
    LokiHavok wrote: »
    Well it really depends on the bacterium or the viral agent in question.
    There are viruses that can live on external surfaces for up to a year.
    There are bacteria that can stand extreme temperatures.
    The fact is we don't know what's in the average walkers mouth.

    We can assume plenty of rotten flesh sense their mouths are rotting, aren't they?
  • edited October 2012
    What is really irritating is if you watch the TV series, as soon as they get bit, they begin running a super high fever and usually die from that. It doesn't mesh with the whole "We're all infected" theory because they can't really offer up a good reason as to why the bites always cause the exact same symptoms, high fever then death.

    What makes a human bite so dangerous is all the disease that people carry.

    Human bites have been shown to transmit hepatitis B, hepatitis C, herpes simplex virus (HSV), syphilis, tuberculosis, actinomycosis, and tetanus. Evidence suggests that it is biologically possible to transmit the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) through human bites, although this is quiteunlikely. (SeePathophysiology, Presentation, and Workup.)

    But each one of these would develop different symptoms. Unlike when they are bitten on the show.

    Unless a bite from a walker is like some sort of catalyst which kick-starts the virus that everyone carries.

    I haven't read the comics so perhaps Kirkman has offered a plausible explanation for this in the books.

    Although what Kirkman says here doesn't mesh: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies#Reanimation

    That would indicate that there should only be a 10-15% infection rate, and the symptoms won't always be the same. It also doesn't explain the super-high fevers that happen very quickly.
  • edited October 2012
    Lee is going to become a zombie. The protagonist is going to turn into a zombie. Deal with it.
  • edited October 2012
    Galdis wrote: »
    Lee is going to become a zombie. The protagonist is going to turn into a zombie. Deal with it.

    pretty much.

    if someone cut lees entire arm off seconds after he was bitten, and he received a bunch of antibiotics -- then we'd have a discussion.
  • edited October 2012
    Its the equivalent to getting bit by a komodo-dragon, you Die from the bite not because of the wound, but because of whats on the wound, Lee will end up dying, dont try to fool yourself, the comics have shown it doesn't care and TTG is trying to mirror him, He is Dead people... I don't like it either but Lee is gone come episode 5.

    Check your source. The reptile you mentioned is in fact one of the few venomous lizards on our planet. Sure it is a scavenger and its saliva is full of germs, but it has in fact venom glands to make sure a bite is most likely going to end up lethal.

    Zombies aren't venomous. Nevertheless, Lee is going to die. As much as I hate the railroaded, inevitable bite, Episode 5 is going to be Lee's final hours.
  • edited October 2012
    Jokieman wrote: »
    What is really irritating is if you watch the TV series, as soon as they get bit, they begin running a super high fever and usually die from that. It doesn't mesh with the whole "We're all infected" theory because they can't really offer up a good reason as to why the bites always cause the exact same symptoms, high fever then death.

    What makes a human bite so dangerous is all the disease that people carry.

    Human bites have been shown to transmit hepatitis B, hepatitis C, herpes simplex virus (HSV), syphilis, tuberculosis, actinomycosis, and tetanus. Evidence suggests that it is biologically possible to transmit the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) through human bites, although this is quiteunlikely. (SeePathophysiology, Presentation, and Workup.)

    But each one of these would develop different symptoms. Unlike when they are bitten on the show.

    Unless a bite from a walker is like some sort of catalyst which kick-starts the virus that everyone carries.

    I haven't read the comics so perhaps Kirkman has offered a plausible explanation for this in the books.

    Although what Kirkman says here doesn't mesh: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies#Reanimation

    That would indicate that there should only be a 10-15% infection rate, and the symptoms won't always be the same. It also doesn't explain the super-high fevers that happen very quickly.

    Great points.
  • edited October 2012
    shedim wrote: »
    Check your source. The reptile you mentioned is in fact one of the few venomous lizards on our planet. Sure it is a scavenger and its saliva is full of germs, but it has in fact venom glands to make sure a bite is most likely going to end up lethal.

    Zombies aren't venomous. Nevertheless, Lee is going to die. As much as I hate the railroaded, inevitable bite, Episode 5 is going to be Lee's final hours.
    Zombies aren't venomous per se, but having rotting meat contact your bloodline can't be too healthy either. I know there is no ptomaine as such, I just don't think it would be a good idea to try it out.

    Rubbing a rotten chicken breast on an open wound would most likely cause an infection and could well lead to death if no proper treatment was taken. This idea doesn't cover a bite by a "newly raised" Walker of course. ;)
  • edited October 2012
    Jokieman wrote: »
    What is really irritating is if you watch the TV series, as soon as they get bit, they begin running a super high fever and usually die from that. It doesn't mesh with the whole "We're all infected" theory because they can't really offer up a good reason as to why the bites always cause the exact same symptoms, high fever then death.

    What makes a human bite so dangerous is all the disease that people carry.

    Human bites have been shown to transmit hepatitis B, hepatitis C, herpes simplex virus (HSV), syphilis, tuberculosis, actinomycosis, and tetanus. Evidence suggests that it is biologically possible to transmit the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) through human bites, although this is quiteunlikely. (SeePathophysiology, Presentation, and Workup.)

    But each one of these would develop different symptoms. Unlike when they are bitten on the show.

    Unless a bite from a walker is like some sort of catalyst which kick-starts the virus that everyone carries.

    I haven't read the comics so perhaps Kirkman has offered a plausible explanation for this in the books.

    Although what Kirkman says here doesn't mesh: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies#Reanimation

    That would indicate that there should only be a 10-15% infection rate, and the symptoms won't always be the same. It also doesn't explain the super-high fevers that happen very quickly.

    I'm sorry jokieman, I don't see the relation the Kirkman's response you hinted at. The reality through the series and all other zombie genre's is that a bite one causes an infection that kills you. Amputation has been hinted at and has showed in some books/movies that it can work if done soon enough. However I think the debate is less about that then why the virus accelerates when introduced into a human body by a bite.

    Why are we trying to debate the cannon of books and movies? If that is what you want to do, write your own book and change the virus. I don't want to sound like a jerk but damn, it is what it is....it won't change
  • edited October 2012
    Zombies aren't venomous per se, but having rotting meat contact your bloodline can't be too healthy either. I know there is no ptomaine as such, I just don't think it would be a good idea to try it out.

    Rubbing a rotten chicken breast on an open wound would most likely cause an infection and could well lead to death if no proper treatment was taken. This idea doesn't cover a bite by a "newly raised" Walker of course. ;)

    Unless it is a an infection caused by a virus, bitten people could be easily cured by treating them with antibiotics.
  • edited October 2012
    Why is this such an issue? There are viruses today that we cannot cure but can only treat the symptoms (in some case resulting in death; Hanta Virus, HIV, etc.), I think this conversation is like beating a dead horse.....no point. If it was that easy, the ZA would be over, game over, books done....just accept the fact that we cannot change it.
  • edited October 2012
    shedim wrote: »
    Unless it is a an infection caused by a virus, bitten people could be easily cured by treating them with antibiotics.

    Not all non-viruses can be cured by a simple dose of meds...ever hear of the super-infections in hospitals that can't be stopped with antibiotics?
  • edited October 2012
    Demonseed wrote: »
    Why is this such an issue? There are viruses today that we cannot cure but can only treat the symptoms (in some case resulting in death; Hanta Virus, HIV, etc.), I think this conversation is like beating a dead horse.....no point. If it was that easy, the ZA would be over, game over, books done....just accept the fact that we cannot change it.
    You shouldn't beat horses... dead or alive... you should much rather sing with them!

    http://www.heuhof.de/en/pferde.html
  • edited October 2012
    Jokieman wrote: »
    What is really irritating is if you watch the TV series, as soon as they get bit, they begin running a super high fever and usually die from that. It doesn't mesh with the whole "We're all infected" theory because they can't really offer up a good reason as to why the bites always cause the exact same symptoms, high fever then death.

    What makes a human bite so dangerous is all the disease that people carry.

    Human bites have been shown to transmit hepatitis B, hepatitis C, herpes simplex virus (HSV), syphilis, tuberculosis, actinomycosis, and tetanus. Evidence suggests that it is biologically possible to transmit the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) through human bites, although this is quiteunlikely. (SeePathophysiology, Presentation, and Workup.)

    But each one of these would develop different symptoms. Unlike when they are bitten on the show.

    Unless a bite from a walker is like some sort of catalyst which kick-starts the virus that everyone carries.

    I haven't read the comics so perhaps Kirkman has offered a plausible explanation for this in the books.

    Although what Kirkman says here doesn't mesh: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies#Reanimation

    That would indicate that there should only be a 10-15% infection rate, and the symptoms won't always be the same. It also doesn't explain the super-high fevers that happen very quickly.

    I understand where you're coming from. I suppose though if I was going to nitpick I would say we're not talking about human bites here. We're talking about reanimated corpses.
    Many of which are eating animals as well as people, bits and pieces of their meals stuck between their teeth and everything else. It's a bit more than just a human bite.
    I'd imagine if you took a bunch of rotting flesh/dna from various animals and humans, threw it in a blender and threw that concoction into a wound.....see where I'm going with this?

    Very well possible that everyone would have different reactions, but in a world with little/no antibiotics I could see that causing some problems.

    While I mention antibiotics.. I don't think between game/comics/tv show have I seen anyone try to treat the bites with those..?
  • edited October 2012
    shedim wrote: »
    Unless it is a an infection caused by a virus, bitten people could be easily cured by treating them with antibiotics.
    Where did you get that idea from? To treat a viral infection you would have to know HOW to fight it. Penicillin isn't a univerals weapon.
  • edited October 2012
    I'm not sure what Kirkman's on about. In The Walking Dead, bites are a death sentence. I can recall several occasions where a character gets a minor bite but still dies or has to get a limb cut off. Maybe its just that its impossible not to get a bad infection from a bite.

    Bites and Zombification are separate. This is a very simple conecpt few people around here can wrap their heads around. So let me make it simple:

    Bites = death

    Any death besides brain damage = zombification

    So, if a person gets bitten, they die. Then they zombify. But they also zombify if they get shot, stabbed, old age, starvation, or bleeding out. A bite is 100% lethal. If you all in this thread still don't understand, then you all must be zombies.
  • edited October 2012
    Demopan wrote: »
    Bites and Zombification are separate. This is a very simple conecpt few people around here can wrap their heads around. So let me make it simple:

    Bites = death

    Any death besides brain damage = zombification

    So, if a person gets bitten, they die. Then they zombify. But they also zombify if they get shot, stabbed, old age, starvation, or bleeding out. A bite is 100% lethal. If you all in this thread still don't understand, then you all must be zombies.

    Yeah I already knew this. In fact you just reiterated what I said in the quote. The only reason were calling it into question is because of Kirkman's quote. So I'm just trying to understand where hes comming from.
  • edited October 2012
    You shouldn't beat horses... dead or alive... you should much rather sing with them!

    http://www.heuhof.de/en/pferde.html


    LOL! Ok, which song do dead horses prefer?? :D
  • edited October 2012
    Yeah I already knew this. In fact you just reiterated what I said in the quote. The only reason were calling it into question is because of Kirkman's quote. So I'm just trying to understand where hes comming from.

    Sox,
    I hope I understand what you mean because I'm going to try and explain it again in this thread. We all have the "virus" in Kirkman's world. We will all die eventually and reanimate unless someone gives us a "dome" shot prior to death.

    The virus seems (in my opinion based on the tv show, I haven't read the comic yet) to be accelerated when bitten by an infected walker, that's it. Yes, amputation is an option depending on the bite, how long after and what you have to treat the wound but the fact of the matter is we are all infected, it is going to happen anyway unless we find some futuristic alien who can sequence DNA and cure us.

    I don't see that happening.....
  • edited October 2012
    What if you pour bleach on it immediately?

    Lol Micheal Jackson...

    Too soon?


    But in all seriousness, I've heard people compare zombie bites to komodo dragon bites. They don't actually have venom, just a lot of gross stuff in their mouths/saliva. I know that there are ways to survive a komodo dragon bite, if you have a ton of antibiotics and immediate medical attention, but I don't know if Lee will get that...
  • edited October 2012
    Demonseed wrote: »
    LOL! Ok, which song do dead horses prefer?? :D
    I am pretty sure they combine them... embracing eternity. :D
  • edited October 2012
    Desmodus87 wrote: »
    Lol Micheal Jackson...

    Too soon?


    But in all seriousness, I've heard people compare zombie bites to komodo dragon bites. They don't actually have venom, just a lot of gross stuff in their mouths/saliva. I know that there are ways to survive a komodo dragon bite, if you have a ton of antibiotics and immediate medical attention, but I don't know if Lee will get that...

    Komodo dragons do have venom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon#Saliva
  • edited October 2012
    People are getting too hung up with real life vs kirkman's world.
    In kirkman's world zombies have saliva. In real life a living zombie IS possible, but not a undead one like in kirkman's world. In real life bodies will decay within only a few months if exposed to the elements, especially in georgia heat. They will lose all water. A dead body is exactly that, a dead body. It has no way to create ATP for the energy to move. It wouldn't have saliva or any liquids left after a few days.

    But it kirman's universe they DO have saliva. They CAN move, even against real life physics. And they even seem to decay a lot slower than real life. In the comics they have been around for over a year now, so by then every single walker from the start of the outbreak should be fully decomposed and be only skeletons or damn near it from being constantly exposed to all the elements. (it actually would only take a few months for a walker to decompose fully). Yet in macon at the inn you still had a ton of zombies running around when it's been 3 months since the outbreak, and that all should be mostly decomposed.

    Heck, in the comics all the survivors now know that if you will die, you need your brain destroyed, so every single survivor has since been made sure to be stabbed or shot through the head, meaning no new zombies are introduced anymore for the most part. The outbreak *should* thus be over after a year or more in the comics, with being shot/stabbed in the head becoming essentially a new pre-burial practice, but i have a strong feeling somehow kirkman is going to overlook that small fact from real life physics too.

    It's these things which are WHY kirkman tells you how the specific date, how the virus started, etc shouldn't matter. It's because the point of the ZA is simply supposed to be symbolic, and the characters, their drama, and all the moral tests and lessons they create just make a good story and show you how fragile life is.
  • edited October 2012
    This Thread is hillarious......quoting doctors for zombie bite advice LMFAO

    ...keep goin

    wtf_is_this_shit2_RE_73_Million_Sharks_Killed_Every_Year-s468x349-71815.jpg
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