People are already comfortable with this model, given the popularity of MMOs. There really won't be any resistance to it once high-speed Internet access becomes ubiquitous.
AHAHAHAHA... *snort*
Sorry, but I think the term you're looking for here is "sheeple"; that model is only going to work for casual games, but not for stuff you really need low latency connections for.
Then again, it's an even bigger waste of bandwidth and resources for single-player games...
Sorry, but I think the term you're looking for here is "sheeple"; that model is only going to work for casual games, but not for stuff you really need low latency connections for.
Then again, it's an even bigger waste of bandwidth and resources for single-player games...
It would work for any sort of game you want. You wouldn't put inner-loop physics or rendering code on the server, obviously. But maybe when you click on a door, the game has to ask a server what it should do. The code that handles opening doors would be server-side, and would never reside on your hard disk. If you're not online and logged into your account for the game, you don't get to open doors. Piracy defeated by a door.
For a shooting game or anything else that people expect low latency for, you could make character selection, respawning, team selection, or any number of large subroutines that are critical for playing the game but not called that frequently server-side only. Nobody will notice or complain that it takes an extra tenth of a second when you click the respawn button.
Again, MMOs and Steam are very popular. People are fine with the idea that you need to be online and signed into an account to play video games, and they're only going to get more accustomed to it.
For a shooting game or anything else that people expect low latency for, you could make character selection, respawning, team selection, or any number of large subroutines that are critical for playing the game but not called that frequently server-side only. Nobody will notice or complain that it takes an extra tenth of a second when you click the respawn button.
Sure, because you'll just love it when you can't respawn because your internet connection just went on the fritz, or because some clown out on the internets thinks he can DDoS your internet connection into an advantage for him...
Sorry, but requiring an active internet connection for such things and telling people they can't play some game out in the woods because they need to be online for something that even Joe Sixpack knows it shouldn't need a server or a connection is madness.
(Asking the server in single player for respawning permission? That's gonna go ever about as well as no dedictated servers for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2... not my kind of game, but look at that user score...)
Again, MMOs and Steam are very popular. People are fine with the idea that you need to be online and signed into an account to play video games, and they're only going to get more accustomed to it.
MMO's are a humongous waste of time and money (something I found out by getting severely bored after a few months of Ultima Online), but by definition they are played online and so copy protection practically solves itself - but trying to do the same with single-player games is not going to fly.
And while Steam is nice in theory it's overpriced most of the time and games downloaded through it have been cracked, too...
But we're getting a bit off-topic here, don't you think? All I'm saying is that the day the scenario you laid out above happens will be the day I'll quit playing PC games that implement such measures. And that's coming from someone that has several meters of shelf-space filled with game boxes...
(Asking the server in single player for respawning permission? That's gonna go ever about as well as no dedictated servers for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2... not my kind of game, but look at that user score...)
Who cares about the user score? A few angry people making noise on a website doesn't mean anything to anyone. Modern Warfare 2 sold 5 million units in its first day. That's the single biggest launch in history across all types of media -books, movies, whatever.
Valve's Gabe Newell stated, "for people who joined the Boycott Group on Steam, we can look at their pre-orders, and they're actually pre-ordering the product at a higher rate than Left 4 Dead 1 owners who weren't in the Boycott".
Valve's Gabe Newell stated, "for people who joined the Boycott Group on Steam, we can look at their pre-orders, and they're actually pre-ordering the product at a higher rate than Left 4 Dead 1 owners who weren't in the Boycott".
Also a side-note going back to original topic (prob mentioned before) Steam activation on DVD versions anyone? Everyone uses Steam these days and at least we wouldn't need the disc in the drive. Though Gabe and co would be looking there two cents i'm sure
FWIW I agree with the OP. I now actively avoid software with DRM because of the problems it causes. In the past I have had to download cracks for games I have bought because it was the only way to get them to work
And then there's the risk that the DRM malware (yes, it is malware) does some irrepairable damage to your system and you have to reinstall your OS. I can't afford this risk since I use my PC for work too.
I'm not fond of online activation either because I like to play older games and worry that I won't if the servers are taken away.
Shame, I like Sam and Max and would have bought the DVD if it did not have DRM.
Just to clarify, WE DO NOT INSTALL ANY DRM DRIVERS ON YOUR COMPUTER.
The game just checks to make sure the disk is in the drive, and that's all built into the executable. There's no third party software installed, no malicious registry keys, nothin'.
Just to clarify, WE DO NOT INSTALL ANY DRM DRIVERS ON YOUR COMPUTER.
The game just checks to make sure the disk is in the drive, and that's all built into the executable. There's no third party software installed, no malicious registry keys, nothin'.
Anti-SecuROM fanatics are basically just conspiracy theorists that think Big Brother is out to get them and all companies would like to ruin their things.
Anti-SecuROM fanatics are basically just conspiracy theorists that think Big Brother is out to get them and all companies would like to ruin their things.
But Securom use has been linked to higher cancer rates and liver failure, right?
Just to clarify, WE DO NOT INSTALL ANY DRM DRIVERS ON YOUR COMPUTER.
The game just checks to make sure the disk is in the drive, and that's all built into the executable. There's no third party software installed, no malicious registry keys, nothin'.
It also happens to check if you're running any sort of Virtual Disk system, like Daemon Tools, checks to see if you're running ProcessExplorer for some unknown reason, keeps me from making a legal backup of the disc I paid good money for in case it gets damaged, and fails to prevent any actual piracy whatsoever.
You'd be better off including a video of "Don't Copy That Floppy" with each game.
The discs have yet to cause me any problems. I have Daemon tools running since my family is made up of gamers and I wants to have digital copies of disks when I move out. I can run the games just fine with out any negative side effects.
and fails to prevent any actual piracy whatsoever.
I'm pretty sure that without it, hundreds of people would be burning copies to pass off to their friends without a second thought, so it IS preventing people from pirating. Sure, it won't prevent cracks from happening, but nothing ever will.
Casual piracy used to be extremely rampant when CD burners first came out because people thought it was cool that they could just copy games and give them to their friends for free. Those are the only pirates that copy protection is aimed at these days, not the ones cracking copies of the game and downloading ISOs and all that nonsense.
SecuROM™ has determined that a Process Explorer program is running in the background.
* Please close this program and reboot your machine before you start the application.
If the application still won't start, please send a SecuROM™ analysis file to support@securom.com (see Support Info section on how to prepare and send an analysis file).
SecuROM™ has determined that a Process Explorer program is running in the background.
* Please close this program and reboot your machine before you start the application.
If the application still won't start, please send a SecuROM™ analysis file to support@securom.com (see Support Info section on how to prepare and send an analysis file).
I believe newer versions of Process Explorer don't cause any exceptions, so you could try updating it as well. At worst you should just have to turn it off, not uninstall or anything.
I believe newer versions of Process Explorer don't cause any exceptions, so you could try updating it as well. At worst you should just have to turn it off, not uninstall or anything.
Actually, I think newer versions of SecuROM just don't care about Process Explorer anymore - I still got that message when I reinstalled Far Cry a year or so ago...
And AFAIR the biggest problem for some time was that SecuROM kept complaining even after shutting down Process Explorer since the hooks it used into several Windows functions could not be unloaded once they were in place, hence you had to reboot and not run PE if you started some games...
Yeah, the newer version of PE actually decouples those hooks when you just turn it off. It doesn't require a full reboot, regardless of how old your Securom.
It would work for any sort of game you want. You wouldn't put inner-loop physics or rendering code on the server, obviously. But maybe when you click on a door, the game has to ask a server what it should do. The code that handles opening doors would be server-side, and would never reside on your hard disk. If you're not online and logged into your account for the game, you don't get to open doors. Piracy defeated by a door.
For a shooting game or anything else that people expect low latency for, you could make character selection, respawning, team selection, or any number of large subroutines that are critical for playing the game but not called that frequently server-side only. Nobody will notice or complain that it takes an extra tenth of a second when you click the respawn button.
Again, MMOs and Steam are very popular. People are fine with the idea that you need to be online and signed into an account to play video games, and they're only going to get more accustomed to it.
I realize this is an older post, but I felt the need to respond. I think you overestimate people's willingness to accept the kind of limitations you talk about. When it comes to MMO's, even people that aren't as computer literate understand that they need to be online in order to play with other people. There have been so many complaints about online activations for disc based versions of many single player games what makes you think that people will accept a system where they have to be online the whole time they are playing?
Steam was also a bad example to use. I like Steam because of the convenience and because they have some great sales. If it weren't for those two things I probably would have only bought Valve games on the service and I don't buy games that have an added layer of DRM or activation limits on top of the limits of Steam. Steam also has an offline mode so it is not anything like the system that you are talking about. It is possible to install a game and then go into offline mode and play the game when you are away from an internet connection.
fleet, I think you misunderstand Telltale's protection scheme. As far as I know you don't have to be online at all for the disc versions, only have the disc in the tray, and as far as the episodes I'm pretty sure it's a one time deal activation and then you're set to roll.
Or not even that if you use the "unlock code" instead of one-time online activation.
But yeah, with fleet I agree: I don't use Steam. I much rather get my games in stores so not to suffer from having to run Steam just to play my game. Offline mode isn't perfect, as I learned when trying to run AudioSurf without net-connection and failing to do so in offline modus because whatever reason it was...
fleet, I think you misunderstand Telltale's protection scheme. As far as I know you don't have to be online at all for the disc versions, only have the disc in the tray, and as far as the episodes I'm pretty sure it's a one time deal activation and then you're set to roll.
Hey jweir,
I was responding to a post by [TTG] Yare further up where he was postulating about the future of DRM in games and ways that game makers could protect their games. He talked about running parts of the code on a server like the code for opening doors in a single player game for example, so you would only be able to open doors in the game if you bought a copy and were logged in to the server while playing the game. He gave Steam as an example of why people would be willing to accept having to be online to play the game and I agree, I would be willing to accept those limitations if the price of the game was reduced to reflect the lower perceived value of a game that I can only play with considerable limitations, and if there was an offline mode for times when I was away from an internet connection. If it had those two features then it would be a lot like Steam with it's offline mode and good sales.
The acid test for Yare's view on the future of DRM will probably be Ubisoft's new DRM, which is pretty much what he's describing.
For anyone unaware, the PC version of Assassin's Creed II's DRM requires the player to be logged into the Internet at all times. If you disconnect, the game boots you and you have to play from the last checkpoint you reached when you were still online.
The point of video game DRM isn't to stop piracy, but to delay a bit so more sales can be made. Piracy is a crime of convenience, after all.
For anyone unaware, the PC version of Assassin's Creed II's DRM requires the player to be logged into the Internet at all times. If you disconnect, the game boots you and you have to play from the last checkpoint you reached when you were still online.
The point of video game DRM isn't to stop piracy, but to delay a bit so more sales can be made. Piracy is a crime of convenience, after all.
I understand your point, Yare, but the DRM for Ubisoft just just ridiculous. Say I take my laptop with me on a trip somewhere where I'm unsure of my status of being able to connect to the internet. I wouldn't even bother bringing Assassin's Creed II. (by the way I have ACII for Xbox 360 so it really doesn't affect me but I just think it's pathetic). I'm all for the ability to protect games that are made because the developers deserve their money but I guarantee you that someone will crack Ubisoft's new DRM and then it will actually make more sense to pirate the game than to be honest and purchase it and that's when DRM becomes pathetic.
Just vote with your money. If you don't like it, then just don't buy it. Money is the language, most companies understand.
Personally i would prefer if the DVDs would ship without a copy protection because i'm not fond of swapping discs in my drive(s). I'm not sure about the benefits of it as a) it's in my way, b) No-DVD-Patches are up pretty fast, c) when the DVDs are released, the games are around for a long time already (normally it takes one to three days until the games&cracks are available) and d) it could be some nice preorder-look-how-nice-we-are-magic.
Beside of the season-DVDs TTG is doing a nice job. I would say they are on the more pleasing side of things. The best are Indie games with just no protection at all, then there come those where you have to activate your game (serial/account), then we do have online activation (like TTG) and so on. On the other side, in the evil corner, we do have stuff like Ubisoft is trying out.
Client&server models can be hacked and pirated as well but, nah, a "it would take too long"-discussion.
Btw, does anyone know how many copies i'm allowed to install? Does there exist any official number? Does it vary from game to game? ...
Btw, does anyone know how many copies i'm allowed to install? Does there exist any official number? Does it vary from game to game? ...
It's a crazy high amount, and each install is counted against you when it's a completely different machine (or seen as one like significant hardware changes). A re-install on the same machine doesn't count against you, but I believe you have 11 or so. Granted, I never see that number said anymore, but I think that's what it at least was.
This evening I felt like replaying my Sam & Max Season one DVD, just because I enjoyed it a whole lot and haven't been able to get a hold of a copy of Season 2 (if it exists) yet. In any case to my horror I noticed that the autorun executable attempts to access my registry. Since I'm running windows 7 64bit it's not capable of doing so thus I cannot install or play my game anymore as I no longer have a computer running anything else than windows 7 64 or Vista 64.
Now I'm most likely capable enough to get the game running within minutes using one of many hacked executes available to download.
However since I prefer not having to trust unsigned and most often unsecured executes downloaded from the internet I'd much rather like an "official" solution to my problem.
As you guys at TTG seem hellbent on keeping these incompatible and downright infuriating DRMs on your products I urge you to atleast give me the option of registering my DVD with your website and give me the option of at least downloading the game that I (after all) have purchased the right to play at any given time.
I can understand your argument that windows 7 isn't a supported OS but given the fact that it's fundamentally the same platform as Vista there is no reason not to support it. This is especially true as you continue to sell the Season in your store.
Now I also understand that the incompatibility is most likely due to the fact that the versions of SecuROM available at this time are non 64bit native.
This is also why I choose make this post in here as I am I clear example of how poorly DRM technology is performing.
Now at this point I've got three choices.
Nr. 1: is run the game in virtual machine with a compatible OS(Vista32/XP) and go through the ordeal of getting everything working as intended inside that emulated machine.
Nr. 2: Would be downloading a hacked execute for the game and risk dodgy code etc potentially causing damage to my system.
Nr 3: Combine the first two options and get the best out of the situation but also most likely causing me hours of frustrations over something this trivial.
Now I'm gonna chime in with a lot of other users here and make two suggestions.
1: Please release all future DVDs without builtin DRM(regardless of the discussion if it installs reg keys/hooks/files on the system) First of all your games aren't your typical massmarket games. Customers who buy your games are most likely much older and more wealthy than your average CoD2 customer.(Don't take that as a bad thing, I believe if there's any hope for this industry it's us mature "gamers"). Besides that point there's also the fact that by the time your games hit the stands as DVDs they have lost most of their buzz besides within the "core" customers, which most likely reduces if not eliminates the damage piracy would cause. I will most likely never be okay with purchasing a "non physical" copy of any game as long as I cannot personally guarantee myself to be able to replay this game in 10 years and I am most likely not your only customer who feels this way.
2. If suggestion one is still totally out of reasonable consideration for you guys. Give me an option to register my DVD on your website giving me the option to download the software from there (alá battle.net) and install it to give me some sense of "security" about my purchase and forward compatibility.
Now to the positive part:
I LOVE your games and it's been a real torture waiting for your games to reach DVDs. Keep up the good work and I hope I'm gonna see loads more of Guybrush from here on.
(sidenote) I noticed that I could in fact install and play the game on my system simply by bypassing the autorun executable but I still consider the points in my post vaild.
Vector, the autorun is broken in Vista/7 whether you have 32/64 bit. It's a minor nuisance because as you've pointed out you can still go around it and install directly from the source files. The autorun has nothing to do with DRM, and a virtual machine is not necessary. Also, why are you so quick to assume that Telltale's market is a much older audience? I've seen plenty of die hard Telltale fans that are younger. I really don't see the point of your post unless you were ultimately hoping to make copies of the game and give it to friends. If that was the case, the DRM is doing it's job, if not, then you have nothing to gripe about really. I believe unless you bought the disc at retail, (not at a convention or online directly from Telltale) you already have access to downloads of all of the games located within the joystick icon at the top of the site ("My Games"). Do you still have other concerns?
Also, why are you so quick to assume that Telltale's market is a much older audience? I've seen plenty of die hard Telltale fans that are younger. I really don't see the point of your post unless you were ultimately hoping to make copies of the game and give it to friends.
I'll agree to the fact that my term "older" was a little too vague. I myself am only 26 but by the overall age I am fairly certain I would be classified as "older" as I've been playing games for far longer than most other active "gamers" today. Even more so is that the "point & click" adventures have been a dying breed for years and most players who have even come across these types of games are most likely above the average age. Mainly because of the diminishing amount of games that has been produced lately.
Secondly your assumption that I am advocating for DRM free games is simply to copy the game to hand out to my "friends" is faulty in more than one point. First of all I could just as easily have downloaded a hacked version of the game and handed out to any of my friends if I wished to do so.
I'll make it clear right now that I have a game library comprised of over a hundred games just from the current- and last-gen consoles. On top of that I've most likely got 100+ games for PC starting back at DOS titles. Not to mention my countless shoe boxes full of AMIGA titles all of which are original.
If I was indeed a pirate I wouldn't have bothered signing up for an account here advocating my thoughts and opinion here as I wouldn't even be affected by them(not just referring to DRM if you'd even bothered reading my entire post). Also your idea that the Autorun.exe looking up registry keys isn't related to DRM seems highly questionable as there is no clear reason for a simple autorun application to actually do so. I do however not by any means condone or accept piracy of any shape or form.
I believe unless you bought the disc at retail, (not at a convention or online directly from Telltale) you already have access to downloads of all of the games located within the joystick icon at the top of the site ("My Games").
I buy all my games in retail as I enjoy the experience of shopping for games. As I did not I do not currently have any way(that I've discovered) to digitally verify my purchase, thus no games in the ("My Games") tab. By the tone of your response I'd say you're making it sound like my game purchased the "traditional" way isn't worth as much as your digital copy? In the end it's a product marketed by Telltale and their distribution channels which means I'm still their customer even if they prefer to cut out the "middle man".
My point remains valid despite your reply and assumptions.
I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but buying directly from Telltale provides a disc with cutscenes viewable through a DVD player and loads of extras. I value a physical copy as much as the next person and that can be accomplished for only the cost of shipping as well as digital copies. I personally see much more value in the digital and physical copies for one cost, but to each their own I guess.
It's a crazy high amount, and each install is counted against you when it's a completely different machine (or seen as one like significant hardware changes). A re-install on the same machine doesn't count against you, but I believe you have 11 or so. Granted, I never see that number said anymore, but I think that's what it at least was.
Okay, well, any official numbers around as well or is this more held as a secret?
Bioshock was the first game i ran into problems with such issues. After exchanging computers and swapping the os i ran out of serials. Afterwards i was told that i could have used a tool to rescue those keys but in the end it was easier going another route.
taumel, they said they've only had the situation arise of needing to give more activations once. I seriously wouldn't worry about it, and they will help you if you truly do run out of activations.
Comments
Sorry, but I think the term you're looking for here is "sheeple"; that model is only going to work for casual games, but not for stuff you really need low latency connections for.
Then again, it's an even bigger waste of bandwidth and resources for single-player games...
It would work for any sort of game you want. You wouldn't put inner-loop physics or rendering code on the server, obviously. But maybe when you click on a door, the game has to ask a server what it should do. The code that handles opening doors would be server-side, and would never reside on your hard disk. If you're not online and logged into your account for the game, you don't get to open doors. Piracy defeated by a door.
For a shooting game or anything else that people expect low latency for, you could make character selection, respawning, team selection, or any number of large subroutines that are critical for playing the game but not called that frequently server-side only. Nobody will notice or complain that it takes an extra tenth of a second when you click the respawn button.
Again, MMOs and Steam are very popular. People are fine with the idea that you need to be online and signed into an account to play video games, and they're only going to get more accustomed to it.
Sorry, but requiring an active internet connection for such things and telling people they can't play some game out in the woods because they need to be online for something that even Joe Sixpack knows it shouldn't need a server or a connection is madness.
(Asking the server in single player for respawning permission? That's gonna go ever about as well as no dedictated servers for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2... not my kind of game, but look at that user score...)
MMO's are a humongous waste of time and money (something I found out by getting severely bored after a few months of Ultima Online), but by definition they are played online and so copy protection practically solves itself - but trying to do the same with single-player games is not going to fly.
And while Steam is nice in theory it's overpriced most of the time and games downloaded through it have been cracked, too...
But we're getting a bit off-topic here, don't you think? All I'm saying is that the day the scenario you laid out above happens will be the day I'll quit playing PC games that implement such measures. And that's coming from someone that has several meters of shelf-space filled with game boxes...
Who cares about the user score? A few angry people making noise on a website doesn't mean anything to anyone. Modern Warfare 2 sold 5 million units in its first day. That's the single biggest launch in history across all types of media -books, movies, whatever.
Also, lol Internet:
guess what: I did not buy this piece of cr*p
Valve's Gabe Newell stated, "for people who joined the Boycott Group on Steam, we can look at their pre-orders, and they're actually pre-ordering the product at a higher rate than Left 4 Dead 1 owners who weren't in the Boycott".
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/left4dead2/video/6238431/gabe-newell-behind-left-4-dead-2-and-beyond-interview
Ahhhh aul Gabe, he may be fat, but he talks sense
Also a side-note going back to original topic (prob mentioned before) Steam activation on DVD versions anyone? Everyone uses Steam these days and at least we wouldn't need the disc in the drive. Though Gabe and co would be looking there two cents i'm sure
And then there's the risk that the DRM malware (yes, it is malware) does some irrepairable damage to your system and you have to reinstall your OS. I can't afford this risk since I use my PC for work too.
I'm not fond of online activation either because I like to play older games and worry that I won't if the servers are taken away.
Shame, I like Sam and Max and would have bought the DVD if it did not have DRM.
The game just checks to make sure the disk is in the drive, and that's all built into the executable. There's no third party software installed, no malicious registry keys, nothin'.
Anti-SecuROM fanatics are basically just conspiracy theorists that think Big Brother is out to get them and all companies would like to ruin their things.
But Securom use has been linked to higher cancer rates and liver failure, right?
You're not supposed to consume the disc.
Like anyone takes those warnings seriously. You're such a square man
It also happens to check if you're running any sort of Virtual Disk system, like Daemon Tools, checks to see if you're running ProcessExplorer for some unknown reason, keeps me from making a legal backup of the disc I paid good money for in case it gets damaged, and fails to prevent any actual piracy whatsoever.
You'd be better off including a video of "Don't Copy That Floppy" with each game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI
Telltale, you're smarter then this. Don't act like EA Games or LucasArts.
In the meantime, follow the guide at http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68&Itemid=106 to clean the malware from your PC.
I'm pretty sure that without it, hundreds of people would be burning copies to pass off to their friends without a second thought, so it IS preventing people from pirating. Sure, it won't prevent cracks from happening, but nothing ever will.
Casual piracy used to be extremely rampant when CD burners first came out because people thought it was cool that they could just copy games and give them to their friends for free. Those are the only pirates that copy protection is aimed at these days, not the ones cracking copies of the game and downloading ISOs and all that nonsense.
SecuROM™ has determined that a Process Explorer program is running in the background.
* Please close this program and reboot your machine before you start the application.
If the application still won't start, please send a SecuROM™ analysis file to support@securom.com (see Support Info section on how to prepare and send an analysis file).
http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=module&c=5024
And AFAIR the biggest problem for some time was that SecuROM kept complaining even after shutting down Process Explorer since the hooks it used into several Windows functions could not be unloaded once they were in place, hence you had to reboot and not run PE if you started some games...
np: Jónsi & Alex - Happiness (Riceboy Sleeps)
I know, and that is ridiculous. There is no good reason I shouldn't be allowed to run it. It's not a pirate tool in the slightest.
I realize this is an older post, but I felt the need to respond. I think you overestimate people's willingness to accept the kind of limitations you talk about. When it comes to MMO's, even people that aren't as computer literate understand that they need to be online in order to play with other people. There have been so many complaints about online activations for disc based versions of many single player games what makes you think that people will accept a system where they have to be online the whole time they are playing?
Steam was also a bad example to use. I like Steam because of the convenience and because they have some great sales. If it weren't for those two things I probably would have only bought Valve games on the service and I don't buy games that have an added layer of DRM or activation limits on top of the limits of Steam. Steam also has an offline mode so it is not anything like the system that you are talking about. It is possible to install a game and then go into offline mode and play the game when you are away from an internet connection.
But yeah, with fleet I agree: I don't use Steam. I much rather get my games in stores so not to suffer from having to run Steam just to play my game. Offline mode isn't perfect, as I learned when trying to run AudioSurf without net-connection and failing to do so in offline modus because whatever reason it was...
Hey jweir,
I was responding to a post by [TTG] Yare further up where he was postulating about the future of DRM in games and ways that game makers could protect their games. He talked about running parts of the code on a server like the code for opening doors in a single player game for example, so you would only be able to open doors in the game if you bought a copy and were logged in to the server while playing the game. He gave Steam as an example of why people would be willing to accept having to be online to play the game and I agree, I would be willing to accept those limitations if the price of the game was reduced to reflect the lower perceived value of a game that I can only play with considerable limitations, and if there was an offline mode for times when I was away from an internet connection. If it had those two features then it would be a lot like Steam with it's offline mode and good sales.
For anyone unaware, the PC version of Assassin's Creed II's DRM requires the player to be logged into the Internet at all times. If you disconnect, the game boots you and you have to play from the last checkpoint you reached when you were still online.
The point of video game DRM isn't to stop piracy, but to delay a bit so more sales can be made. Piracy is a crime of convenience, after all.
I understand your point, Yare, but the DRM for Ubisoft just just ridiculous. Say I take my laptop with me on a trip somewhere where I'm unsure of my status of being able to connect to the internet. I wouldn't even bother bringing Assassin's Creed II. (by the way I have ACII for Xbox 360 so it really doesn't affect me but I just think it's pathetic). I'm all for the ability to protect games that are made because the developers deserve their money but I guarantee you that someone will crack Ubisoft's new DRM and then it will actually make more sense to pirate the game than to be honest and purchase it and that's when DRM becomes pathetic.
Or... so I believe.
Personally i would prefer if the DVDs would ship without a copy protection because i'm not fond of swapping discs in my drive(s). I'm not sure about the benefits of it as a) it's in my way, b) No-DVD-Patches are up pretty fast, c) when the DVDs are released, the games are around for a long time already (normally it takes one to three days until the games&cracks are available) and d) it could be some nice preorder-look-how-nice-we-are-magic.
Beside of the season-DVDs TTG is doing a nice job. I would say they are on the more pleasing side of things. The best are Indie games with just no protection at all, then there come those where you have to activate your game (serial/account), then we do have online activation (like TTG) and so on. On the other side, in the evil corner, we do have stuff like Ubisoft is trying out.
Client&server models can be hacked and pirated as well but, nah, a "it would take too long"-discussion.
Btw, does anyone know how many copies i'm allowed to install? Does there exist any official number? Does it vary from game to game? ...
It's a crazy high amount, and each install is counted against you when it's a completely different machine (or seen as one like significant hardware changes). A re-install on the same machine doesn't count against you, but I believe you have 11 or so. Granted, I never see that number said anymore, but I think that's what it at least was.
Now I'm most likely capable enough to get the game running within minutes using one of many hacked executes available to download.
However since I prefer not having to trust unsigned and most often unsecured executes downloaded from the internet I'd much rather like an "official" solution to my problem.
As you guys at TTG seem hellbent on keeping these incompatible and downright infuriating DRMs on your products I urge you to atleast give me the option of registering my DVD with your website and give me the option of at least downloading the game that I (after all) have purchased the right to play at any given time.
I can understand your argument that windows 7 isn't a supported OS but given the fact that it's fundamentally the same platform as Vista there is no reason not to support it. This is especially true as you continue to sell the Season in your store.
Now I also understand that the incompatibility is most likely due to the fact that the versions of SecuROM available at this time are non 64bit native.
This is also why I choose make this post in here as I am I clear example of how poorly DRM technology is performing.
Now at this point I've got three choices.
Nr. 1: is run the game in virtual machine with a compatible OS(Vista32/XP) and go through the ordeal of getting everything working as intended inside that emulated machine.
Nr. 2: Would be downloading a hacked execute for the game and risk dodgy code etc potentially causing damage to my system.
Nr 3: Combine the first two options and get the best out of the situation but also most likely causing me hours of frustrations over something this trivial.
Now I'm gonna chime in with a lot of other users here and make two suggestions.
1: Please release all future DVDs without builtin DRM(regardless of the discussion if it installs reg keys/hooks/files on the system) First of all your games aren't your typical massmarket games. Customers who buy your games are most likely much older and more wealthy than your average CoD2 customer.(Don't take that as a bad thing, I believe if there's any hope for this industry it's us mature "gamers"). Besides that point there's also the fact that by the time your games hit the stands as DVDs they have lost most of their buzz besides within the "core" customers, which most likely reduces if not eliminates the damage piracy would cause. I will most likely never be okay with purchasing a "non physical" copy of any game as long as I cannot personally guarantee myself to be able to replay this game in 10 years and I am most likely not your only customer who feels this way.
2. If suggestion one is still totally out of reasonable consideration for you guys. Give me an option to register my DVD on your website giving me the option to download the software from there (alá battle.net) and install it to give me some sense of "security" about my purchase and forward compatibility.
Now to the positive part:
I LOVE your games and it's been a real torture waiting for your games to reach DVDs. Keep up the good work and I hope I'm gonna see loads more of Guybrush from here on.
(sidenote) I noticed that I could in fact install and play the game on my system simply by bypassing the autorun executable but I still consider the points in my post vaild.
I'll agree to the fact that my term "older" was a little too vague. I myself am only 26 but by the overall age I am fairly certain I would be classified as "older" as I've been playing games for far longer than most other active "gamers" today. Even more so is that the "point & click" adventures have been a dying breed for years and most players who have even come across these types of games are most likely above the average age. Mainly because of the diminishing amount of games that has been produced lately.
Secondly your assumption that I am advocating for DRM free games is simply to copy the game to hand out to my "friends" is faulty in more than one point. First of all I could just as easily have downloaded a hacked version of the game and handed out to any of my friends if I wished to do so.
I'll make it clear right now that I have a game library comprised of over a hundred games just from the current- and last-gen consoles. On top of that I've most likely got 100+ games for PC starting back at DOS titles. Not to mention my countless shoe boxes full of AMIGA titles all of which are original.
If I was indeed a pirate I wouldn't have bothered signing up for an account here advocating my thoughts and opinion here as I wouldn't even be affected by them(not just referring to DRM if you'd even bothered reading my entire post). Also your idea that the Autorun.exe looking up registry keys isn't related to DRM seems highly questionable as there is no clear reason for a simple autorun application to actually do so. I do however not by any means condone or accept piracy of any shape or form.
I buy all my games in retail as I enjoy the experience of shopping for games. As I did not I do not currently have any way(that I've discovered) to digitally verify my purchase, thus no games in the ("My Games") tab. By the tone of your response I'd say you're making it sound like my game purchased the "traditional" way isn't worth as much as your digital copy? In the end it's a product marketed by Telltale and their distribution channels which means I'm still their customer even if they prefer to cut out the "middle man".
My point remains valid despite your reply and assumptions.
Bioshock was the first game i ran into problems with such issues. After exchanging computers and swapping the os i ran out of serials. Afterwards i was told that i could have used a tool to rescue those keys but in the end it was easier going another route.