... I'm wondering how you would see it if wrote a post hoping that the next protagonist was white, and saying we'd had enough of Lee's kind of character.
It's really, really, really not the same thing.
White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.
I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.
A) Bigger breasts.
Less Asian.
This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.
Race/culture are important, but shouldn't be chosen just to choose them.
Take Prototype - they had a white lead in the first game and a black lead in the second. When asked "why did you choose a black male for a main character." they replied "We didn't, we chose James Heller." (i.e. one character they had crafted from a pool of potential lead characters - he was just the best one they had crafted)
Yeah, I called bullshit on that. We should've just stayed the main character from the first one. And it has to make sense in context, I mean, a Japanese RPG set in Edo-era Japan wouldn't make much sense with a brother running around, lol.
Yeah, I called bullshit on that. We should've just stayed the main character from the first one. And it has to make sense in context, I mean, a Japanese RPG set in Edo-era Japan wouldn't make much sense with a brother running around, lol.
Oh goodness, how could you like that emo punk that was Mercer?
"I got me some super powers! And now I must bitch about it! whaaaaaaaaaa!!"
I know, but other than emails, a few missions revolving around the his past, and the occasional Serbian phrase, Niko doesn't expel much of his culture, instead the player adopts the American culture in Liberty City. From the clothes, to the cars, women, TV, food, radio, nightlife, etc, etc. His Eastern European roots are tossed out the window for the most part. There's really no hard time transitioning, at least, none we see on camera.
So, basically, even if Niko was an average American character coming to Liberty City from San Andreas, the experience would be pretty much the same.
I do have to totally disagree on this. Over here in Europe we are really mixed, which is a good thing in my opinion, but still, changing style of clothes, cars, blabla, doesn't change your culture. For me playing a Serbian character is a totally different feeling than playing a German, British, French, or even a North American one.
It is a totally different way of thinking, and that's not meant in a bad way, but it is a fact. These countries have totally different ways of thinking.
White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.
I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.
A) Bigger breasts.
Less Asian.
This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.
Exactly. Dude, you're hitting the nail on the head with these things.
Lol, the funny thing is, the Asian version made bigger breasts in the artwork.
White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.
I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.
A) Bigger breasts.
Less Asian.
This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.
Hate to drag the economy into this, but what is this "very real problem" you speak of? That companies follow what their consumers tell them to do? How is this the fault of the company? If market testing had revealed "smaller breasts" and "more asian", the company would have heeded. This is simple economics.
White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.
I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.
A) Bigger breasts.
Less Asian.
This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.
I'm with everybody else asking, what privilege? And maybe people here do need to think wider than the USA, because I don't know anybody that cares about race here.
However, women all over the world are still fighting for equal rights to men, even in developed countries.
Way I see it, maybe non-white people feel race is an issue, same as how I'm more concerned about female representation.
... Lol, the funny thing is, the Asian version made bigger breasts in the artwork.
It's not only the breast, compare the eyes and facial features. The western world gets the typical badass asian, while the eastern (asian) world gets a westernized juvenile version.
I'm with everybody else asking, what privilege? And maybe people here do need to think wider than the USA, because I don't know anybody that cares about race here.
However, women all over the world are still fighting for equal rights to men, even in developed countries.
Way I see it, maybe non-white people feel race is an issue, same as how I'm more concerned about female representation.
Colour-blindedness is an issue. I don't expect everybody to understand privilege.
But Walking Dead has always been diverse, the novels had a black protagonist named Josh Lee Hamilton. The comics, and the TV show too. Though in the TV show there is a running joke of how "There can be only one." black man, after T-Dog gets written out and replaced by the black prisoner.
Out of all the criteria, I think the most common type of person is the brown haired white male, so people think of it as the average human. The unracist thing would be to not care. So I won't call you a racist but the idea is... a little.
This. OP, what you call "cherrypicking" is actually using real facts and quotes instead of randomly spouting some 'pity me' arguments.
Lol, that's still cherrypicking. You picked one quote to make it seem as if all I cared about was skin color, when in the original post I mentioned culture. And the quote in context was a response to someone else. Your logical fallacies kill me.
Colour-blindedness is an issue. I don't expect everybody to understand privilege.
How is colour-blindness an issue? Shouldn't that be the way it is?
And sure, in the west, we are more privileged than developing countries. And sure, some people are racist. Some people are sexist, some are just assholes.
And I definitely understand what it's like to lack privilege in our culture, but that's more to do with being very working class, and possibly my gender. As I said in my previous post, maybe people find it easier to see the problems they are directly affected by? It's kind of unfair to bring up this concept of 'privilege' and not explain yourself :P
Oh, and I'm not American, for the record. Maybe that's why I don't understand? Kinda like how I don't understand why religion is such a big deal there...
I do have to totally disagree on this. Over here in Europe we are really mixed, which is a good thing in my opinion, but still, changing style of clothes, cars, blabla, doesn't change your culture. For me playing a Serbian character is a totally different feeling than playing a German, British, French, or even a North American one.
It is a totally different way of thinking, and that's not meant in a bad way, but it is a fact. These countries have totally different ways of thinking.
I didn't say it changed Niko's culture, but I never got to experience much of it as a player. It was typical Grand Theft Auto with hints of Eastern European.
I didn't say it changed Niko's culture, but I never got to experience much of it as a player. It was typical Grand Theft Auto with hints of Eastern European.
I know and I didn't mean to attack, or offend you. I soley tried to state that it is a whole different basic experience for a european player as our cultures are closer together, and such experienced in a different way. There might be small hints you don't get, a fellow european does though.
It is far easier for anyone to understand U.S. (american/european/hispanic/african/asian) culture across the world than vice versa. It's what all of us see on TV every day.
I think the protaganist is likely going to be Clemie-Clem.
So you can safely say that TWD will have another character that should "break the sterotypical boundaries" of the "white, 30-something males" in all other games.
Didn't really notice a problem otherwise I'm just happy to able to play such unique characters!
How is colour-blindness an issue? Shouldn't that be the way it is?
And sure, in the west, we are more privileged than developing countries. And sure, some people are racist. Some people are sexist, some are just assholes.
And I definitely understand what it's like to lack privilege in our culture, but that's more to do with being very working class, and possibly my gender. As I said in my previous post, maybe people find it easier to see the problems they are directly affected by? It's kind of unfair to bring up this concept of 'privilege' and not explain yourself :P
Oh, and I'm not American, for the record. Maybe that's why I don't understand? Kinda like how I don't understand why religion is such a big deal there...
No. How it should be is that Walking Dead at this point, should have accurate representation of the setting it is based out of. Atlanta is like 51% African-American. The only Afro-American character for 2 seasons was T-Dogg (stupid name, by the way).
I see you're passionate about gender and sexism. Women have sought representation for decades, being blind to their differences is what is causing misogyny in other parts of the world in the first place. Accurate representation of women is why we now see powerful characters like Molly, without it, she'd be annoying damsel in distress.
But now that he's gone, I fear TellTale will go the typical cut and paste brown-haired white male route.
But we all can totally relate to some 30 year old with brown hair and a blank personality! The funny thing... If you question this trend too much people will try to deem YOU as the racist. When its not true. Why is a brown haired man who is white and probably in his 30s the norm?
Unfortunately racists play videogames as well. So you will have no choice but to deal with them.
No. How it should be is that Walking Dead at this point, should have accurate representation of the setting it is based out of. Atlanta is like 51% African-American. The only Afro-American character for 2 seasons was T-Dogg (stupid name, by the way).
I see you're passionate about gender and sexism. Women have sought representation for decades, being blind to their differences is what is causing misogyny in other parts of the world in the first place. Accurate representation of women is why we now see powerful characters like Molly, without it, she'd be annoying damsel in distress.
They weren't from Atlanta, they just camped there.
No. How it should be is that Walking Dead at this point, should have accurate representation of the setting it is based out of. Atlanta is like 51% African-American. The only Afro-American character for 2 seasons was T-Dogg (stupid name, by the way).
I see you're passionate about gender and sexism. Women have sought representation for decades, being blind to their differences is what is causing misogyny in other parts of the world in the first place. Accurate representation of women is why we now see powerful characters like Molly, without it, she'd be annoying damsel in distress.
Okay, that totally makes sense about the ratio compared to reality. I don't know, I tend not to notice things like that, or rather, just accept it the way it is.
About being blind to gender, I don't think that's the same thing as being blind to race. Your gender does generally affect your personality in a way you can't control. I judge people based solely on personality - a guy can be black or white, he's still just a guy to me. Men and women are fundamentally different. And surely things like women not having the vote or not getting equal pay were actually because people over-emphasised the differences? Same with different races - these 'minorities' were treated differently, and suffered for it.
Women, children and other races in games are all under-represented. In most cases, they are poorly written. But hey, so are most white male characters.
Well, that's how I see it, anyway :P
I'm not really that passionate about gender (I'm certainly no feminist), but I'd love to see some fascinating female protagonists. In fact, now I really hope Telltale do give us a female lead. They did such an amazing job with Lee, and Clem is the best-written child in a game EVER, I'd love to see how they would handle it. A female character would face issues that males usually don't, especially the TWD's world.
Comments
It's really, really, really not the same thing.
White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.
I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.
A) Bigger breasts.
This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.
Yeah, I called bullshit on that. We should've just stayed the main character from the first one. And it has to make sense in context, I mean, a Japanese RPG set in Edo-era Japan wouldn't make much sense with a brother running around, lol.
I must live in a different "western" world..... oh wait, you mean that 1% with a silver spoon coming out of their ass.
Oh goodness, how could you like that emo punk that was Mercer?
"I got me some super powers! And now I must bitch about it! whaaaaaaaaaa!!"
Heller was cool, he had fun with his new toys.
It is a totally different way of thinking, and that's not meant in a bad way, but it is a fact. These countries have totally different ways of thinking.
Exactly. Dude, you're hitting the nail on the head with these things.
Lol, the funny thing is, the Asian version made bigger breasts in the artwork.
Hate to drag the economy into this, but what is this "very real problem" you speak of? That companies follow what their consumers tell them to do? How is this the fault of the company? If market testing had revealed "smaller breasts" and "more asian", the company would have heeded. This is simple economics.
If they make him black - Fans: "What the heck? Why are you making all of them black?"
I just at first thought he was racially ambiguous for some reason. Not sure why Lee is so lightskinned but the rest of his family is darker.
I'm with everybody else asking, what privilege? And maybe people here do need to think wider than the USA, because I don't know anybody that cares about race here.
However, women all over the world are still fighting for equal rights to men, even in developed countries.
Way I see it, maybe non-white people feel race is an issue, same as how I'm more concerned about female representation.
Show well, sell well...
Colour-blindedness is an issue. I don't expect everybody to understand privilege.
But Walking Dead has always been diverse, the novels had a black protagonist named Josh Lee Hamilton. The comics, and the TV show too. Though in the TV show there is a running joke of how "There can be only one." black man, after T-Dog gets written out and replaced by the black prisoner.
Well I feel like an idiot now - I think I misunderstood where he was going with that.
Really? He's fairly darkskinned to me. It might be the graphic art-like visuals.
Lol, that's still cherrypicking. You picked one quote to make it seem as if all I cared about was skin color, when in the original post I mentioned culture. And the quote in context was a response to someone else. Your logical fallacies kill me.
How is colour-blindness an issue? Shouldn't that be the way it is?
And sure, in the west, we are more privileged than developing countries. And sure, some people are racist. Some people are sexist, some are just assholes.
And I definitely understand what it's like to lack privilege in our culture, but that's more to do with being very working class, and possibly my gender. As I said in my previous post, maybe people find it easier to see the problems they are directly affected by? It's kind of unfair to bring up this concept of 'privilege' and not explain yourself :P
Oh, and I'm not American, for the record. Maybe that's why I don't understand? Kinda like how I don't understand why religion is such a big deal there...
I didn't say it changed Niko's culture, but I never got to experience much of it as a player. It was typical Grand Theft Auto with hints of Eastern European.
It is far easier for anyone to understand U.S. (american/european/hispanic/african/asian) culture across the world than vice versa. It's what all of us see on TV every day.
How dreadful.
We are flooded with US series like Scrubs, How I Met Your Mother, Big Bang Theory (YEAHYY!), and such... also movies of course.
So you can safely say that TWD will have another character that should "break the sterotypical boundaries" of the "white, 30-something males" in all other games.
Didn't really notice a problem otherwise I'm just happy to able to play such unique characters!
No. How it should be is that Walking Dead at this point, should have accurate representation of the setting it is based out of. Atlanta is like 51% African-American. The only Afro-American character for 2 seasons was T-Dogg (stupid name, by the way).
I see you're passionate about gender and sexism. Women have sought representation for decades, being blind to their differences is what is causing misogyny in other parts of the world in the first place. Accurate representation of women is why we now see powerful characters like Molly, without it, she'd be annoying damsel in distress.
But we all can totally relate to some 30 year old with brown hair and a blank personality! The funny thing... If you question this trend too much people will try to deem YOU as the racist. When its not true. Why is a brown haired man who is white and probably in his 30s the norm?
Unfortunately racists play videogames as well. So you will have no choice but to deal with them.
I'd be very disappointed if we played as someone bland looking like the Nathan Drakes.
They weren't from Atlanta, they just camped there.
Not as the protagonist. But a Scottish secondary character that has outbursts like Larry would be awesome.
Okay, that totally makes sense about the ratio compared to reality. I don't know, I tend not to notice things like that, or rather, just accept it the way it is.
About being blind to gender, I don't think that's the same thing as being blind to race. Your gender does generally affect your personality in a way you can't control. I judge people based solely on personality - a guy can be black or white, he's still just a guy to me. Men and women are fundamentally different. And surely things like women not having the vote or not getting equal pay were actually because people over-emphasised the differences? Same with different races - these 'minorities' were treated differently, and suffered for it.
Women, children and other races in games are all under-represented. In most cases, they are poorly written. But hey, so are most white male characters.
Well, that's how I see it, anyway :P
I'm not really that passionate about gender (I'm certainly no feminist), but I'd love to see some fascinating female protagonists. In fact, now I really hope Telltale do give us a female lead. They did such an amazing job with Lee, and Clem is the best-written child in a game EVER, I'd love to see how they would handle it. A female character would face issues that males usually don't, especially the TWD's world.
Sorry for the double post, but that really IS a bit racist :P I'm kidding. It's true, we really are angry all the time. It's the weather, you see.
I think we need a real Scottish person as the protagonist! That would be awesome.
A black Scotsman.
My God it would break so many molds.
A black homosexual female Scotsman. Or Scotswoman...
problem solved
he's black and he's scottish
happy now?
Scottish AND female. I am expecting a call from Telltale any day now
aye