Carley was a bitch
Now that I think about it.
I mean, she provoked the fuck out of Lilly. Yes, she was defending Ben and Lilly was going crazy, but if she had just shut the fuck up, Lee probably could've defused the situation (if you're defending Ben). Lee's been able to keep the peace (for the most part) between Kenny and Lilly, so at that critical moment, it was probably best for her to stay out of it. She knew Lilly lost her dad, she knew Lilly was the one holding the group together and therefore took all the pressures. If it wasn't for Lilly sniping, everyone would've been executed at the motel by the bandits.
#TeamLilly
Fuck Carley, God I miss Lilly.
I mean, she provoked the fuck out of Lilly. Yes, she was defending Ben and Lilly was going crazy, but if she had just shut the fuck up, Lee probably could've defused the situation (if you're defending Ben). Lee's been able to keep the peace (for the most part) between Kenny and Lilly, so at that critical moment, it was probably best for her to stay out of it. She knew Lilly lost her dad, she knew Lilly was the one holding the group together and therefore took all the pressures. If it wasn't for Lilly sniping, everyone would've been executed at the motel by the bandits.
#TeamLilly
Fuck Carley, God I miss Lilly.
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Comments
GOD WILLS IT!
"Let's calm down, eat, and deal with it then."
And no she couldn't just "stay out of it" because she was one of Lilly's "prime suspects." I don't really understand how you can call someone a "bitch" for standing up for themself, especially when this "bitch" went out of her way to help a scared kid (Ben) as well as aid Lee / Clem in any way throughout every episode she was in.
#TeamCarley
Kenny and Lee were the ones risking their lives everyday for those same supplies while Lilly just pouted in her room and screamed out on people (for a good reason perhaps, but that does not make her a good leader) and even they weren't upset; just focused on keeping everyone safe. Lilly had to get off that high horse of hers because everyone else around her was doing the hunting and supply runs only to come back to get screamed at if they offer up anything. A leader needs more than just tough as nails; they need to provide hope to their people or there is little reason to even struggle living.
Carley was being pointed at by Lily for no good reason who saved the group and risked her life for the people in it multiple times. In a world where everything has gone to hell, Carley had every right to defend herself against a crazed woman who has been on everyone's case since day one. Being a leader is a difficult position, but Lilly didn't handle it right in the end. Perhaps at first, but the game always seemed to show her as unsympathetic and highly unstable.
Lee can make Lilly back off of Carley. Lilly then goes on to blame Ben. Carley defends Ben, which makes Lilly suspect her again. Carley could've dropped it then.
#TeamLilly
Lee and Kenny were the men, not to bring gender into it, but it's highly likely they volunteered just because of that. It's that "protect women and kids" mentality. That why so many people saved Carley in the first place.
Lee says Lily trains them with the rifles, so it's thanks to her Lee and Kenny are as good as they were with weaponry. And Lee's utter badassery with that rifle in Episode 3 is what saved the group. Carley's a crack shot, but again, Lilly is from the military.
And I liked Lilly's pouting and screaming. It was actually a turn on, lol. Am I the only who found that extremely sexy?
#TeamLilly
Fuck Carley
yep. you're the only one (as far as I'm concerned)
Then she would've tried to shoot Ben just like she does when Carley isn't around. Many are probably saying "So", but that's not how you handle things when in a leadership position, especially without any hard evidence. Lilly was a ticking time bomb and Carley was simply defending someone she saw as a friend. Yes, Ben did steal supplies and many people hated him, but the fact that Lilly shoots someone at point blank range based off a hunch or some harsh words demonstrates just how unfit of a leader she has become.
Everyone in the group was losing family members left and right with Lee having to kill his brother so the death of her father is no excuse to kill someone. I liked Lilly, but she was going to kill someone regardless if Carley stood up.
Yes, Lilly was invaluable to the group at one point as she trained Lee and Kenny, but they still risked their lives for the supplies and did not get upset when they were stolen while she just lost it in the end. Again, I'm not blaming her for going over the edge, but it's clear she should not have been a leader.
Not trying to sound like a Carley fanboy, but that's what I like about Carley. She's really loyal to her friends. Despite Lilly shooting Carley I still liked her, she's badass and cool. She should definitely not be a leader, but she's still awesome.
#TeamCarley and #TeamLilly
It was serxy to me.
You're trying to rationalize the fact that she destroyed the group with the fact that she (*possibly*) helped the group learn how to use guns.
Lilly provoked the bandit attack, she insisted the group stayed there, and then made Lee discover the hidden meds consequently leading up to the attack.
#FUCKTHEPOPO
You make some good points. Lilly was going to kill someone, but she would've shot Ben. If Carley would've just shut up, everyone would've won, including Carley fans.
Kenny killed Larry. Lee can kill Ben. What's the difference?
Carley was a bitch because of her last words. That really didn't help the situation. You call someone a scared little bitch then turn you head away from them? Lilly killing Carley was fucked up, but Carley should've take more... preventive measures.
Not really. Ben traded with the bandits, the same bandits that attacked the St. Johns regardless of the fact they had a deal with them. Those bandits weren't trustworthy.
Lee himself said Lilly trained them, what more evidence do you need? Other than Mark, the likelyhood of anyone else knowing how to operate high powered rifles and handguns is slim.
That's true.
There is no difference and that's my point. I'm not defending Kenny over his decision to kill Larry or any of Lee's possible decisions. I will say that I saw more rational behind those decisions, but I am not defending any of the similar actions. Lilly shoots Ben and everyone wins? No, because there was absolutely no evidence that Ben did anything wrong at that point and does not alter the fact that Lilly murdered someone based off a nagging feeling.
Many fans themselves thought Ben had nothing to do with it and wouldn't even know of Ben's actions had he not told Lee directly. The group would still see Lilly as an unstable person who killed without a clear reason and needed to be taken care of just like she was when she shot Doug or Carly.
Lilly would have killed Ben if Carley would've shut up
result: you never would've known who was giving supplies to the bandits
Murder someone because they called you a scared little bitch? What kind of a scared little bitch do you have to be to do that?
one of the smartest things I've seen in the forums
the kind of scared little bitch who can't take ONE FUCKING STUPID INSULT
one insult and Lilly lost it, i was like WTF
That probably would've been best for Kenny's sake.
She did a good job defending the motor inn during the raid but you have to admit Carley did pretty good herself. Headshotting two bandits and then killing multiple zombies. She also didn't have the luxury of being inside a room when the bandits attacked. Regardless, Lilly was really badass during the raid. Sneaking out back and then silently sniping the bandit leader like a boss.
Also no one was going to be executed by the bandits, Lee diffused the situation remember?
"Well, I suppose we got to hash out some terms then."
I think it was easy to tell Ben did it without his confession. I defended him, but I had a hunch it was him. Think about it.
wasn't that the whole point Lilly started the fight...to find who made the deal with them
So Carley should've just sat there and let Lily kill Ben? What kind of bitch move is that? Anyway, if that would've happened I bet Carley (or anyone else) would've shot Lily or at least left her there with Ben
Lilly did want to stay, but even if they all wanted to leave, they couldn't. The RV, remember? Kenny was working on it between Episodes 1 and 3. So they latest they could've left was Episode 3.
Ah, I forgot that. I remember defusing it myself in my first playthrough. But I have to go back to the St. John example, they attack regardless of a deal. So they couldn't be trusted.
"... I'm sorry."
I bet you Carley thought it was Ben too, I mean who else would she have thought it was? No way she would think it was Lee, Kenny is in the clear because he had his family with him, and Lilly was the one who instigated the search. Ben is the only one. Carley also never said it wasn't him when she was defending him, she only said you shouldn't treat him so horribly and that she should stop torturing him and all of that. It's likely everyone thought Ben was the most likely candidate. Good point. I would have probably left right after I got the RV working though, perhaps they were lulled into a false sense of security because the bandits didn't attack for a while thanks to the deals?
They definitely would have attacked again in the future, I don't think they would have attacked right away though, not after Lee's superb convincing skills ("if you kill us right here how are you all going to get supplies? You need us!"). It would have made them safe for the time being at least, just wait for them to leave then get on that RV and gtfo of there.
Most of those reasons were only known to us and Lee however, and were not known in Lilly's perspective. Lilly even blames Lee in some playthroughs, implicating that Carley and him did it together and even threatens Lee that she will just assume it was him if he doesn't turn up anything (she lost it big time).
She literally went from one person to the next to see who would crack first and if they didn't crack or someone offended her, someone ends up dead. Killing someone based off circumstantial evidence is not exactly a good call and even if everyone knew Ben did it, we shouldn't just shoot him in the head to call it even.
I gave Lilly the benefit of the doubt when she killed Carley and she ends up stealing the RV and leaving the entire group and two children to potentially rot in the wilderness. She was clearly looking out for herself in the third episode and killed not to protect the group or help others, but to vent out her anger and frustration or because Carley gave her a crude statement.
This whole thread was to point out that had Carley not said anything, everything would've been fine, but I think it's pretty clear nothing was going to go right with Lilly wound up the way she was. Either way, someone dies and Lilly either screws everyone further by stealing the only viable source of transportation at that point (as no one was sure if the train could work) or she is left behind and we get to keep that secondary option.
Yeah, but because if Lilly would've killed Ben, we never would've known for sure if it was him. We didn't know for sure until Ben told us. Kenny was struggling, but remember how happy and hopeful he was when Clementine found the boat? That scene was so beautiful by the way.
All of that was crushed when Ben confessed. He went right back into depressed mode.
Never thought of that. Extremely likely. Maybe Carley just defended Ben because she thought he was only a kid.
Exactly. I'm sure that's how even the bandits got in. Everyone was on their guard when the bandits were attacking them. Lilly was lookout in Episode 2 and Ben's on lookout in Episode 3. On top of that, Mark and Larry were making the fence even stronger.
That's actually an excellent point. The bandits did need Lee and the group, because they were the ones going back into Macon and raiding local shops for supplies.
Lilly was awesome until she came down with the batshit crazy after he dad died.
#TeamCarley
#TeamLilly
A) Lilly had just lost her father and was mentally unstable at this point,
and
Wouldn't call her that word, I think she was far from it. She was very sweet, and had she and Lee lived they might have made a good couple/surrogate parents for Clem. She just got a little too bold with Lilly and paid the price.
And then Lee would end up in the comics as a character from the Prison chapters while Clem starves to death or ends up in the hands of walkers. Yay!!!
True, but I don't think it mattered to Lilly at that point. She didn't trust anyone (with the exception of Lee if you had him aid Lilly in giving Larry CPR) and felt she had nothing to lose. She even said so.
Had Carley been the one to pull the walker from under the RV and it was Kenny giving her a piece of his mind, I strongly believe she would have killed him. Maybe more so, after what happened with Larry.
If Ben had a backbone that early on and said something similar to what Carley said, it would have been him.
Now let's start.
1. Why would Carley think Ben is innocent? Lee says there is a traitor -> Carley believes Lee -> it obviously isn't Lilly since she told Lee -> It has to be Kenny, Katjaa or Ben. Kenny and Katjaa is a highly unlikely choice since they have a kid and they would know better than to deal with bandits. Plus Kenny is hotheaded and it wouldn't fit his personality. Katjaa is also too passive for such a thing.
Now again, why Carley would think that Ben (the newest guy, who isn't exactly bright) is innocent? Oh I forgot, she isn't very smart and logic is definitely not her strongest side *cough* batteries *cough*.
2. Lee says there is a traitor in the group who "puts his insidious shit above everybody else" and she decides it is the perfect time to speak back? For 3 episodes she's been avoiding any kind of tough decisions and discussions but 1 week after Larry's murder she decides to talk back. I mean, c'mon.
3. I got to admit I thought it was Carley. I assumed her stupidity is just a clever act to deceive us. Point taken. Never underestimate stupidity.
Now, people like to attack Lilly for all sorts of things. That's funny, really, given the fact that she snaps right after your favourite Kenny kills her father.
But of course it is okay for him to drink and grieve in ep.4, I mean he lost his family...we should be sympathetic.
Ben would've probably confessed hadn't Kenny turn the group into a Crawford one in ep.2. Yeah, Ben was afraid of Lilly, that's because he didn't know what Kenny did. Nobody did.
Lilly was sitting in her room? How dare she.... It's not like in ep. 2 Kenny didn't sit on the couch while Lilly was on guard, Lee was distributing food and Mark (who just came back from hunting) was fixing the fence with Larry. Of course not, I guess that's so different.
It is not also that Lilly saves the group and is the only one to react to the bandit attack. Nah, I'm so happy that Kenny (who was again sitting on his couch) was the one to save your asses.
To conclude I will quote Lilly from ep. 2 "Gambling with your family's lives is pretty dumb if you ask me."
You wanted to leave the motor inn? That horrible Lilly didn't let you?
Oh, yes, Savannah was so AWESOME. It's not like almost everybody died or anything...
I guess THE BOAT was worth the risk.
Even back in ep. 2 I was convinced that boat plan is the worst plan I've ever heard. I'm really surprised anyone in their right mind expected that boats would be waiting for them...