Every time I play the game I lose more and more respect for Lilly.
Same here. I had the most sympathy for her in my first playthrough, but the more I play and more I get to think about what she says and does the more critical I become.
Stranger. What I can't believe is that out of all the people in the world who survived, and all the people we could run into, we get the last pedophile on earth. What are the fucking odds?
Same here. I had the most sympathy for her in my first playthrough, but the more I play and more I get to think about what she says and does the more critical I become.
The Stranger. I mainly hate him because it was his fault that Lee got bitten, Ben died (if you saved him in ep 4), Kenny is missing, and Clem is by herself. If he hadn't taken Clem, none of that would have happened.
I agree Larry is not the best father figure either. And for someone who was an Army officer, he sure doesn't know much about leadership and group dynamics.
I agree Larry is not the best father figure either. And for someone who was an Army officer, he sure doesn't know much about leadership and group dynamics.
And she fucking complains about how hard it is!...
Holy hell... You been carrying that with you this whole time? Sheesh, man. Let it out a bit sooner next time.
But seriously, that is a good analysis. I haven't read everything in this thread, so if you mentioned some of this stuff, don't mind me.
It took me a while to play a path where I sided with Lily. For a long time, she was my most disliked character. She's all "I'm in charge! Do what I say without question! Don't open the doors to help people! Nyeah!", but the second her dad almost kills himself, "Oh please, help me! I can't figure out how to open the door! He needs these pills!". Risks are bad unless they are to help her father (don't open the doors to help a group with children, but go ahead and break the door if it will help you get the keys to the office). She is already a total mess from the moment you meet her.
However... once I got around to actually taking her side, I saw that it was all Larry's doing. He pushed her to be in charge ("You've got to control these people, Lilly"). He scares people away from her. He chides her whenever she tries to stand up to him. Lilly never had a good example of how to interact with other people thanks to Larry. I actually felt sorry for her, and she seemed appreciative of my support. Even the moment when you can reveal your past to her is a vastly different experience. She actually acknowledges that her father was wrong about you ("He treated you like shit and you still tried to save his life. You don't have to apologize"), and this is even considering I told Larry to "eat up".
Without her father, she was lost, which is just sad.
As for the stranger, I do hate him. However, he's nowhere near as bad as Larry. Larry had no reason to treat Lee that way, regardless of his past, even less considering Lee risked who knows what just to get medicine for the guy. The stranger, does have a legitimate gripe, even if it's not against Lee in particular. Yes, he was stupid to leave his stuff unguarded while he searched for his son. Yes, it was risky to leave the light on and the door beeping (was it supposed to be a beacon or something?). That doesn't make theft of his stuff excusable.
He completely overreacted and his revenge was not fitting of the crime, but he was entitled to something. We took replaceable items, he took a person. Mental instability is an explanation, but not an excuse. I really wish we could have been more hostile to him during the meeting. At best we get "You f***ed up", and "Yes" when he asks if he looks like a monster. I would love to call out his hypocrisy.
Holy hell... You been carrying that with you this whole time? Sheesh, man. Let it out a bit sooner next time.
But seriously, that is a good analysis. I haven't read everything in this thread, so if you mentioned some of this stuff, don't mind me.
It took me a while to play a path where I sided with Lily. For a long time, she was my most disliked character. She's all "I'm in charge! Do what I say without question! Don't open the doors to help people! Nyeah!", but the second her dad almost kills himself, "Oh please, help me! I can't figure out how to open the door! He needs these pills!". Risks are bad unless they are to help her father (don't open the doors to help a group with children, but go ahead and break the door if it will help you get the keys to the office). She is already a total mess from the moment you meet her.
However... once I got around to actually taking her side, I saw that it was all Larry's doing. He pushed her to be in charge ("You've got to control these people, Lilly"). He scares people away from her. He chides her whenever she tries to stand up to him. Lilly never had a good example of how to interact with other people thanks to Larry. I actually felt sorry for her, and she seemed appreciative of my support. Even the moment when you can reveal your past to her is a vastly different experience. She actually acknowledges that her father was wrong about you ("He treated you like shit and you still tried to save his life. You don't have to apologize"), and this is even considering I told Larry to "eat up".
Without her father, she was lost, which is just sad.
As for the stranger, I do hate him. However, he's nowhere near as bad as Larry. Larry had no reason to treat Lee that way, regardless of his past, even less considering Lee risked who knows what just to get medicine for the guy. The stranger, does have a legitimate gripe, even if it's not against Lee in particular. Yes, he was stupid to leave his stuff unguarded while he searched for his son. Yes, it was risky to leave the light on and the door beeping (was it supposed to be a beacon or something?). That doesn't make theft of his stuff excusable.
He completely overreacted and his revenge was not fitting of the crime, but he was entitled to something. We took replaceable items, he took a person. Mental instability is an explanation, but not an excuse. I really wish we could have been more hostile to him during the meeting. At best we get "You f***ed up", and "Yes" when he asks if he looks like a monster. I would love to call out his hypocrisy.
To Larry:
Larry had nothing but his daughter and I can understand, that he don't wanted her to be with someone, who killed someone cold blooded. We don't know, what was to be read at the newspapers or in the TV, we don't know how bad Lee's reputation were. Maybe he thought, when Lee would snap he would kill his daughter or Larry himself, like he did with that state senator. Larry was just a father, protective and bad yeah, but I don't hate him for that and don't think anyone should do it either. But thats of course, your thing.
The stranger lost his whole family in a few days, mostly because a few people came and took all their supplies, just finding his (presumably dead, even if it comes to mind he killed themselve in anger) wife and his daughter, from whom he thought earn their trust back. But that all was gone, when the stuff was taken.
He is just a more extreme, more fucked up version of Kenny. I can understand, what driven him. But I liked to strangle him to death for taking Clem and killing Kenny and Ben.
I'd say during the game itself i really hated Ben after that awful 30 minutes in episode 3 followed by him leaving Clem at the start of episode 4. I took every chance to be as aggressive as possible with my thinly veiled cold hatred. (picking the "Carley didn't need to die you know" options etc) Eventually dropping him though.
With time passing and reflection though i think i was too harsh on the kid, while characters i initially had sympathy for like the stranger and Lilly given that they were clearly broken i have grown to hate on reflection (Lilly's power hunger really stings when you play the first two parts again knowing how it all plays out such as the look she gives Carley for calling Kenny "boss" )
Larry had nothing but his daughter and I can understand, that he don't wanted her to be with someone, who killed someone cold blooded. We don't know, what was to be read at the newspapers or in the TV, we don't know how bad Lee's reputation were. Maybe he thought, when Lee would snap he would kill his daughter or Larry himself, like he did with that state senator. Larry was just a father, protective and bad yeah, but I don't hate him for that and don't think anyone should do it either. But thats of course, your thing.
So what's his excuse for being such an ass to everyone else in the group?
He tells Carley to "shut the f*** up", when he leaves Lilly with just "shut up". No need for that.
Why is he so antagonizing when he thinks Duck is bitten? I understand that he wants to keep Lilly safe, but that doesn't mean you threaten a child with no evidence. After all, you can't prove he's bitten when there's no bite. Larry sure didn't see any (again, because it didn't happen). He just jumped to conclusions. Did he try to hear Kenny out? Was he willing to wait for Katjaa to finish cleaning Duck to confirm/deny the existence of a bite? No. He went straight to kill mode and wouldn't accept any other solution.
And Mark. The bit at the wall was uncalled for as well. Mark is underfed and losing strength, so Larry calls him a pansy? All for the crime of not being Larry #2, I guess.
Plenty of people have lost everything in the game. Lee lost his whole family, but he still treats people with proper respect. Kenny loses everything right in front of him, yet still manages to be a good person. Ben has no idea what happens to his family. It eats away at him the whole time. And guess what? He still tries to be civil and helpful (but... not exactly successful at helping).
If Larry only did these things to Lee, I'd be more understanding, but that's just not it. He's an ass. Period. He'll find any excuse to justify his behavior. Lee just had the most convenient one.
Now that I think about it, Larry is a lot like the stranger. They both twist the facts to blame Lee for things beyond his control while acting like they do nothing wrong. Not once does either of them apologize for their actions.
I'm not saying Larry's behavior is incomprehensible. I'm saying it's inexcusable. There is no just cause for it at any point beyond realizing Lee is a convict. Even then, he only acted after Lee risked his own life to get pills so Larry could live after getting himself so worked up he had a heart attack. Good people weigh all the facts. Asses weigh only the ones they want to use.
Good on you that you can forgive such actions. I can't, and won't ever tolerate people like Larry.
And yet I still felt incredibly sorry for him. Maybe because I’m a bleeding heart pansy so I keep sympathizing with him during the conversation and by the end he didn’t even sound mad anymore. He actually seemed to feel bad for Lee for a moment when I told him I was bitten. Then he started talking to his bowling bag and it was kinda obvious he was too far gone to help.
etc.
Definitely. I see where you're coming from about him and Jolene - I'd go insane too, if I lost everything and everyone in such a short span of time.
But I don't know, he just seemed off to me. With Jolene, you could really tell how hurt she was about losing her daughter and how much she had meant to her; there was no doubt about it. But with the stranger, he just didn't sound all that concerned about his children. He talked constantly about his wife's feelings, and how he hurt HER so bad by losing the poor kid in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. I mean, it's nice that he loves his wife and all, but there wasn't a single "I miss my boy" or anything, or how his children might have felt throughout the whole mess - it's like the only reason he felt bad about losing his son was because it upset Tess, and when he talked to her head in the bag, it's like he just wanted Clementine to replace Lizzy for her, because she loved the kids.
Buut I digress. All my Lilly hate is resurfacing in this thread now, lol. Everything in your post more or less sums up what I thought of her during my first playthrough. Her attitude can be justified if she was actually a good leader, but half the time she's just as clueless as anyone (if not more), yet she's barking orders left and right like she owns the place. And the part I really can't stand is why people seemed to listen to her. She didn't do anything except stir up drama.
I mean, yes, it was useful to know someone had been stealing supplies, but she was really blowing the whole situation out of proportion (no, Lilly, stealing supplies is not the same as cutting your throat while you sleep. Shooting someone's brains out might be, since death is more or less instantaneous). Throwing accusations based on nothing like that wouldn't have helped anyone, and for god's sake, no matter who it was they really didn't deserve an execution.
It was nice when Carley finally stood up to her, since no one else seemed to be able to tell her to just shut up and sit down; I also thought she was being waay too kind with the "scared little girl" comment. Granted, she did get shot in the face before she could say any more (and wow, talk about a fucking overreaction), but someone really needed to tell her to stop being a bitch and help out more.
2) Give Larry a break. He has the right to be paranoid over something like that. Its a zombie apocalypse!
3) "Lilly was always looking out for herself and Larry" That's false. Yes, she took Larry's side in most of the arguments, but that's only because he's her father! When it came down to it, Lilly cared about the group, and was willing to do anything to protect them. Even if it meant killing potential threats like Carley.
4) Campman had his reasons to kidnap Clem.. He thought he was doing the right thing. It's not like he stole her for shits and giggles. You really need to look at both sides of the story before calling people out on this shit.
You my friend are the idiot. How can you defend people who did what these guys did. Punching Lee in the face and saying "your not coming with us" just because he didnt like or trust Lee is not something to ok to do in a ZA.
Lilly murdered Doug/Carley for a crime they did not commit. How can this be justified?
Campman Kidnapped Clem. How can you justify manipulating a 9 year old girl into trusting you, then stealing her, and threatening to kill her guardian (Lee).
When the world goes to hell, that doesnt give you an excuse to behave in evil or sadistic ways even if they do have somewhat valid reasons.
So what's his excuse for being such an ass to everyone else in the group?
He tells Carley to "shut the f*** up", when he leaves Lilly with just "shut up". No need for that.
Why is he so antagonizing when he thinks Duck is bitten? I understand that he wants to keep Lilly safe, but that doesn't mean you threaten a child with no evidence. After all, you can't prove he's bitten when there's no bite. Larry sure didn't see any (again, because it didn't happen). He just jumped to conclusions. Did he try to hear Kenny out? Was he willing to wait for Katjaa to finish cleaning Duck to confirm/deny the existence of a bite? No. He went straight to kill mode and wouldn't accept any other solution.
And Mark. The bit at the wall was uncalled for as well. Mark is underfed and losing strength, so Larry calls him a pansy? All for the crime of not being Larry #2, I guess.
Plenty of people have lost everything in the game. Lee lost his whole family, but he still treats people with proper respect. Kenny loses everything right in front of him, yet still manages to be a good person. Ben has no idea what happens to his family. It eats away at him the whole time. And guess what? He still tries to be civil and helpful (but... not exactly successful at helping).
If Larry only did these things to Lee, I'd be more understanding, but that's just not it. He's an ass. Period. He'll find any excuse to justify his behavior. Lee just had the most convenient one.
Now that I think about it, Larry is a lot like the stranger. They both twist the facts to blame Lee for things beyond his control while acting like they do nothing wrong. Not once does either of them apologize for their actions.
I'm not saying Larry's behavior is incomprehensible. I'm saying it's inexcusable. There is no just cause for it at any point beyond realizing Lee is a convict. Even then, he only acted after Lee risked his own life to get pills so Larry could live after getting himself so worked up he had a heart attack. Good people weigh all the facts. Asses weigh only the ones they want to use.
Good on you that you can forgive such actions. I can't, and won't ever tolerate people like Larry.
Larry is everything that can possibly be wrong with a person.
You my friend are the idiot. How can you defend people who did what these guys did. Punching Lee in the face and saying "your not coming with us" just because he didnt like or trust Lee is not something to ok to do in a ZA.
Lilly murdered Doug/Carley for a crime they did not commit. How can this be justified?
Campman Kidnapped Clem. How can you justify manipulating a 9 year old girl into trusting you, then stealing her, and threatening to kill her guardian (Lee).
When the world goes to hell, that doesnt give you an excuse to behave in evil or sadistic ways even if they do have somewhat valid reasons.
Larry was looking out for his daughter, Lee was a convicted killer, he could kill one or maybe even all of them, while they are sleeping or in rage. Better safe than sorry, I'd say. Killing someone in the zombie apocalypse may safe your life, especially if you don't trust them.
The same counts for Carley. If Carley did it, she would be a real danger to the group and untrustworthy. Lilly was raised by her dead, so she probably follows the same philosophy. Better safe than sorry. Don't misunderstand me, I liked both characters very much and killing Carley was brutal and merciless, but she somewhat brought it up to herself by insulting Lills.
Campman was sick in the head. The loss of daughter, wife and son made him crazy and he thought, he would be the good man, by removing a threat to anyone who could meet it. Lee. In normal times, he would probably got in a insitution for mentally disabled, but something like this doesn't exist anymore in TWD.
Larry was looking out for his daughter, Lee was a convicted killer, he could kill one or maybe even all of them, while they are sleeping or in rage. Better safe than sorry, I'd say. Killing someone in the zombie apocalypse may safe your life, especially if you don't trust them.
The same counts for Carley. If Carley did it, she would be a real danger to the group and untrustworthy. Lilly was raised by her dead, so she probably follows the same philosophy. Better safe than sorry. Don't misunderstand me, I liked both characters very much and killing Carley was brutal and merciless, but she somewhat brought it up to herself by insulting Lills.
Campman was sick in the head. The loss of daughter, wife and son made him crazy and he thought, he would be the good man, by removing a threat to anyone who could meet it. Lee. In normal times, he would probably got in a insitution for mentally disabled, but something like this doesn't exist anymore in TWD.
Rubbish, sorry. While do a agree you need trust. The issue is there not even close to enough evidence to say they were untrustworthy.
Lee may have killed in the past but literally minutes beforehand risked his life to save Glenn and the girl, then again to get Larry the pills, and if the best reason Lilly had not to trust Carley was that she hurt here feeling (no evidence that she traded with the bandits at all) well then... that the most ridiculous of all. A group of people living together are going to argue.
They were prepared to kill based on very little. There's no place for people you cant trust but there's no place for paranoia either. They were attempting to kill (successfully in Lilly's case) people who were helping them for flimsy reasons.
Rubbish, sorry. While do a agree you need trust. The issue is there not even close to enough evidence to say they were untrustworthy.
Lee may have killed in the past but literally minutes beforehand risked his life to save Glenn and the girl, then again to get Larry the pills, and if the best reason Lilly had not to trust Carley was that she hurt here feeling (no evidence that she traded with the bandits at all) well then... that the most ridiculous of all. A group of people living together are going to argue.
They were prepared to kill based on very little. There's no place for people you cant trust but there's no place for paranoia either. They were attempting to kill (successfully in Lilly's case) people who were helping them for flimsy reasons.
Dont hate anyone per say, i think they all added quite abit to the story.
Altho Lily and Ben do make it easy. Lily's crazy banter, then pops carly/doug was just one giant "WTF". And Ben, omg - "kid" or not, he screws up way to often which result in someone being killed. I still saved him tho, meh.
Why Kenny felt he had to sacrifice himself saving Ben i have no frickin idea. Sloppy scene. I mean Kenny just said not 5 min earlier in the room with the suicide couple "you stick out". And then pops his last round into Ben and get himself chewed up. Wtf was that!.
Nobody knows if Larry was dead anyway, but but myself and Kenny would have been far more likely to help us if he hadn't have acted that way he did at the pharmacy. While Lilly would not have been left at the side of the road alone.
Vernon, HANDS down! Cancer crackpot should have died of Chemo! Double timing back stabbing fool! After you devise the plan to infiltrate Crawford (dangerous sounding enough). Sure he pulled his weight with Brie, and knowing the tunnels! Don't give him no right to steal the boat and basically all motivation of the group! I hope his boat sinks!
Vernon, HANDS down! Cancer crackpot should have died of Chemo! Double timing back stabbing fool! After you devise the plan to infiltrate Crawford (dangerous sounding enough). Sure he pulled his weight with Brie, and knowing the tunnels! Don't give him no right to steal the boat and basically all motivation of the group! I hope his boat sinks!
Hopefully we meet his group in season 2. I'd like a little payback.
Hopefully we meet his group in season 2. I'd like a little payback.
Hell yah! I remember there being another female in their group! I will brutally kill that old dying dirt bag just for being associated with Vernon, even though she really didnt have a choice since she was very ill and dying from cancer, but Fk it!
The Stranger.
I don't really hate him, more like feel sorry for him.
He blames me for all the bad things that has happened to him and his family when it's just him to blame.
It's his fault for leaving a car full of supplies in the woods with no one to watch it.
It's the freaking apocalypse, people get hungry and I don't think anyone would just pass by that and not take anything.
He also over-exaggerates all my mistakes like I'm a monster, because of him kidnapping Clem, Lee got bit =.=
The Stranger.
I don't really hate him, more like feel sorry for him.
He blames me for all the bad things that has happened to him and his family when it's just him to blame.
It's his fault for leaving a car full of supplies in the woods with no one to watch it.
It's the freaking apocalypse, people get hungry and I don't think anyone would just pass by that and not take anything.
He also over-exaggerates all my mistakes like I'm a monster, because of him kidnapping Clem, Lee got bit =.=
Unfortunately he has already lost his mind... so reasoning is beyond him. Besides, he's looking for a scapegoat to pin all his pain to so he can feel better... and that scapegoat is Lee.
Nobody knows if Larry was dead anyway, but but myself and Kenny would have been far more likely to help us if he hadn't have acted that way he did at the pharmacy. While Lilly would not have been left at the side of the road alone.
Kenny would have killed Larry in the Locker, no matter what, even If he would be a badass cookie baking grandma. The heart attack bashed him out and he appeared dead, and Kenny tried to protect his family.
Lilly was desillusional. She knew, the group was gonna hate them and tried to bring the argument with Lee's path to weight. My Lee would have forgiven her, I liked her, but Kenny's relationship with her was pretty fucked and so everyone elses, I guess, so they were not able to take her anymore. I don't judge them for that.
Kenny would have killed Larry in the Locker, no matter what, even If he would be a badass cookie baking grandma. The heart attack bashed him out and he appeared dead, and Kenny tried to protect his family.
Lilly was desillusional. She knew, the group was gonna hate them and tried to bring the argument with Lee's path to weight. My Lee would have forgiven her, I liked her, but Kenny's relationship with her was pretty fucked and so everyone elses, I guess, so they were not able to take her anymore. I don't judge them for that.
The fact they their attitude turns the whole group against them (the only person who can leap to their defense is you) and they end up either dead or alone, so a bit of empathy can be a good survival tactic.
Kenny may well have killed Larry anyway but i think its a bit foolish to think his attitude towards killing Duck didn't influence that, or at least make it easier.
As for Lilly well her relationship with the group wasn't irreparable until she murdered Carley. I remember asking everyone about her at the start of Episode 3. Carley says she's worried about her, Kenny says that although they disagree he doesn't distrust her, etc. What she did on the road was unforgivable.
As for her increasing madness, well its not that out of character. She wanted to leave Lee, Kenny, Katjaa and Duck to die outside the drug store, then Ben in episode 2, along with a visible power craving (again look at her face when Carley calls Kenny "boss", or when anyone disagrees with her). Killing Carley wasn't all that out of character, the signs of what she would become were there. Larrys death is hardly an excuse anyway, everyone's lost people by that stage.
She wanted to leave Lee, Kenny, Katjaa and Duck to die outside the drug store, then Ben in episode 2, along with a visible power craving (again look at her face when Carley calls Kenny "boss", or when anyone disagrees with her).
I swear, she was still holding a grudge against Carley for "disobeying" her in Episode 1, even though the people she and Glenn saved ended up being invaluable and one of them got the pills she needed for her dad.
I swear, she was still holding a grudge against Carley for "disobeying" her in Episode 1, even though the people she and Glenn saved ended up being invaluable and one of them got the pills she needed for her dad.
I didn't pick up on it so much in the first time playing the game, but in hindsight i do think she cared more about her own authority than the fate of the group.
I swear, she was still holding a grudge against Carley for "disobeying" her in Episode 1, even though the people she and Glenn saved ended up being invaluable and one of them got the pills she needed for her dad.
Yes, leave her alone, she just wanted to survive...and became a little mad. She reminds me a little of Cersei Lannister (Game of Thrones).
If she will return to game (hope so), I would't let her to become a leader again. Bacause as Carley said: She just a scared little girl, who wanted to looks powerful. (or something like that)
P.S. I agree with others, Lilly always hated Carley.
Comments
Same here. I had the most sympathy for her in my first playthrough, but the more I play and more I get to think about what she says and does the more critical I become.
Well look at who raised her.
I agree Larry is not the best father figure either. And for someone who was an Army officer, he sure doesn't know much about leadership and group dynamics.
When does he say he was in the Army?
I'm not sure if that was even mentioned in game, but Telltale Game's character bio sheet says he was a commander in the Army.
https://www.telltalegames.com/walkingdead/cast/
Holy hell... You been carrying that with you this whole time? Sheesh, man. Let it out a bit sooner next time.
But seriously, that is a good analysis. I haven't read everything in this thread, so if you mentioned some of this stuff, don't mind me.
It took me a while to play a path where I sided with Lily. For a long time, she was my most disliked character. She's all "I'm in charge! Do what I say without question! Don't open the doors to help people! Nyeah!", but the second her dad almost kills himself, "Oh please, help me! I can't figure out how to open the door! He needs these pills!". Risks are bad unless they are to help her father (don't open the doors to help a group with children, but go ahead and break the door if it will help you get the keys to the office). She is already a total mess from the moment you meet her.
However... once I got around to actually taking her side, I saw that it was all Larry's doing. He pushed her to be in charge ("You've got to control these people, Lilly"). He scares people away from her. He chides her whenever she tries to stand up to him. Lilly never had a good example of how to interact with other people thanks to Larry. I actually felt sorry for her, and she seemed appreciative of my support. Even the moment when you can reveal your past to her is a vastly different experience. She actually acknowledges that her father was wrong about you ("He treated you like shit and you still tried to save his life. You don't have to apologize"), and this is even considering I told Larry to "eat up".
Without her father, she was lost, which is just sad.
As for the stranger, I do hate him. However, he's nowhere near as bad as Larry. Larry had no reason to treat Lee that way, regardless of his past, even less considering Lee risked who knows what just to get medicine for the guy. The stranger, does have a legitimate gripe, even if it's not against Lee in particular. Yes, he was stupid to leave his stuff unguarded while he searched for his son. Yes, it was risky to leave the light on and the door beeping (was it supposed to be a beacon or something?). That doesn't make theft of his stuff excusable.
He completely overreacted and his revenge was not fitting of the crime, but he was entitled to something. We took replaceable items, he took a person. Mental instability is an explanation, but not an excuse. I really wish we could have been more hostile to him during the meeting. At best we get "You f***ed up", and "Yes" when he asks if he looks like a monster. I would love to call out his hypocrisy.
To Larry:
Larry had nothing but his daughter and I can understand, that he don't wanted her to be with someone, who killed someone cold blooded. We don't know, what was to be read at the newspapers or in the TV, we don't know how bad Lee's reputation were. Maybe he thought, when Lee would snap he would kill his daughter or Larry himself, like he did with that state senator. Larry was just a father, protective and bad yeah, but I don't hate him for that and don't think anyone should do it either. But thats of course, your thing.
The stranger lost his whole family in a few days, mostly because a few people came and took all their supplies, just finding his (presumably dead, even if it comes to mind he killed themselve in anger) wife and his daughter, from whom he thought earn their trust back. But that all was gone, when the stuff was taken.
He is just a more extreme, more fucked up version of Kenny. I can understand, what driven him. But I liked to strangle him to death for taking Clem and killing Kenny and Ben.
Ah okay. Thanks.
With time passing and reflection though i think i was too harsh on the kid, while characters i initially had sympathy for like the stranger and Lilly given that they were clearly broken i have grown to hate on reflection (Lilly's power hunger really stings when you play the first two parts again knowing how it all plays out such as the look she gives Carley for calling Kenny "boss" )
So what's his excuse for being such an ass to everyone else in the group?
He tells Carley to "shut the f*** up", when he leaves Lilly with just "shut up". No need for that.
Why is he so antagonizing when he thinks Duck is bitten? I understand that he wants to keep Lilly safe, but that doesn't mean you threaten a child with no evidence. After all, you can't prove he's bitten when there's no bite. Larry sure didn't see any (again, because it didn't happen). He just jumped to conclusions. Did he try to hear Kenny out? Was he willing to wait for Katjaa to finish cleaning Duck to confirm/deny the existence of a bite? No. He went straight to kill mode and wouldn't accept any other solution.
And Mark. The bit at the wall was uncalled for as well. Mark is underfed and losing strength, so Larry calls him a pansy? All for the crime of not being Larry #2, I guess.
Plenty of people have lost everything in the game. Lee lost his whole family, but he still treats people with proper respect. Kenny loses everything right in front of him, yet still manages to be a good person. Ben has no idea what happens to his family. It eats away at him the whole time. And guess what? He still tries to be civil and helpful (but... not exactly successful at helping).
If Larry only did these things to Lee, I'd be more understanding, but that's just not it. He's an ass. Period. He'll find any excuse to justify his behavior. Lee just had the most convenient one.
Now that I think about it, Larry is a lot like the stranger. They both twist the facts to blame Lee for things beyond his control while acting like they do nothing wrong. Not once does either of them apologize for their actions.
I'm not saying Larry's behavior is incomprehensible. I'm saying it's inexcusable. There is no just cause for it at any point beyond realizing Lee is a convict. Even then, he only acted after Lee risked his own life to get pills so Larry could live after getting himself so worked up he had a heart attack. Good people weigh all the facts. Asses weigh only the ones they want to use.
Good on you that you can forgive such actions. I can't, and won't ever tolerate people like Larry.
Definitely. I see where you're coming from about him and Jolene - I'd go insane too, if I lost everything and everyone in such a short span of time.
But I don't know, he just seemed off to me. With Jolene, you could really tell how hurt she was about losing her daughter and how much she had meant to her; there was no doubt about it. But with the stranger, he just didn't sound all that concerned about his children. He talked constantly about his wife's feelings, and how he hurt HER so bad by losing the poor kid in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. I mean, it's nice that he loves his wife and all, but there wasn't a single "I miss my boy" or anything, or how his children might have felt throughout the whole mess - it's like the only reason he felt bad about losing his son was because it upset Tess, and when he talked to her head in the bag, it's like he just wanted Clementine to replace Lizzy for her, because she loved the kids.
Buut I digress.
I mean, yes, it was useful to know someone had been stealing supplies, but she was really blowing the whole situation out of proportion (no, Lilly, stealing supplies is not the same as cutting your throat while you sleep. Shooting someone's brains out might be, since death is more or less instantaneous). Throwing accusations based on nothing like that wouldn't have helped anyone, and for god's sake, no matter who it was they really didn't deserve an execution.
It was nice when Carley finally stood up to her, since no one else seemed to be able to tell her to just shut up and sit down; I also thought she was being waay too kind with the "scared little girl" comment. Granted, she did get shot in the face before she could say any more (and wow, talk about a fucking overreaction), but someone really needed to tell her to stop being a bitch and help out more.
You my friend are the idiot. How can you defend people who did what these guys did. Punching Lee in the face and saying "your not coming with us" just because he didnt like or trust Lee is not something to ok to do in a ZA.
Lilly murdered Doug/Carley for a crime they did not commit. How can this be justified?
Campman Kidnapped Clem. How can you justify manipulating a 9 year old girl into trusting you, then stealing her, and threatening to kill her guardian (Lee).
When the world goes to hell, that doesnt give you an excuse to behave in evil or sadistic ways even if they do have somewhat valid reasons.
Larry is everything that can possibly be wrong with a person.
Larry was looking out for his daughter, Lee was a convicted killer, he could kill one or maybe even all of them, while they are sleeping or in rage. Better safe than sorry, I'd say. Killing someone in the zombie apocalypse may safe your life, especially if you don't trust them.
The same counts for Carley. If Carley did it, she would be a real danger to the group and untrustworthy. Lilly was raised by her dead, so she probably follows the same philosophy. Better safe than sorry. Don't misunderstand me, I liked both characters very much and killing Carley was brutal and merciless, but she somewhat brought it up to herself by insulting Lills.
Campman was sick in the head. The loss of daughter, wife and son made him crazy and he thought, he would be the good man, by removing a threat to anyone who could meet it. Lee. In normal times, he would probably got in a insitution for mentally disabled, but something like this doesn't exist anymore in TWD.
Rubbish, sorry. While do a agree you need trust. The issue is there not even close to enough evidence to say they were untrustworthy.
Lee may have killed in the past but literally minutes beforehand risked his life to save Glenn and the girl, then again to get Larry the pills, and if the best reason Lilly had not to trust Carley was that she hurt here feeling (no evidence that she traded with the bandits at all) well then... that the most ridiculous of all. A group of people living together are going to argue.
They were prepared to kill based on very little. There's no place for people you cant trust but there's no place for paranoia either. They were attempting to kill (successfully in Lilly's case) people who were helping them for flimsy reasons.
I was enjoed, when I smashed her head in ep 5, when she turns.
Still, better safe than sorry.
Altho Lily and Ben do make it easy. Lily's crazy banter, then pops carly/doug was just one giant "WTF". And Ben, omg - "kid" or not, he screws up way to often which result in someone being killed. I still saved him tho, meh.
Why Kenny felt he had to sacrifice himself saving Ben i have no frickin idea. Sloppy scene. I mean Kenny just said not 5 min earlier in the room with the suicide couple "you stick out". And then pops his last round into Ben and get himself chewed up. Wtf was that!.
Not for them judging by how it worked out.
Nobody knows if Larry was dead anyway, but but myself and Kenny would have been far more likely to help us if he hadn't have acted that way he did at the pharmacy. While Lilly would not have been left at the side of the road alone.
Hopefully we meet his group in season 2. I'd like a little payback.
Hell yah! I remember there being another female in their group! I will brutally kill that old dying dirt bag just for being associated with Vernon, even though she really didnt have a choice since she was very ill and dying from cancer, but Fk it!
:cool:
Larry was that cranky old guy nobody (except for Lilly) can stand and Kenny is just horrible.
I don't really hate him, more like feel sorry for him.
He blames me for all the bad things that has happened to him and his family when it's just him to blame.
It's his fault for leaving a car full of supplies in the woods with no one to watch it.
It's the freaking apocalypse, people get hungry and I don't think anyone would just pass by that and not take anything.
He also over-exaggerates all my mistakes like I'm a monster, because of him kidnapping Clem, Lee got bit =.=
Unfortunately he has already lost his mind... so reasoning is beyond him. Besides, he's looking for a scapegoat to pin all his pain to so he can feel better... and that scapegoat is Lee.
Kenny would have killed Larry in the Locker, no matter what, even If he would be a badass cookie baking grandma. The heart attack bashed him out and he appeared dead, and Kenny tried to protect his family.
Lilly was desillusional. She knew, the group was gonna hate them and tried to bring the argument with Lee's path to weight. My Lee would have forgiven her, I liked her, but Kenny's relationship with her was pretty fucked and so everyone elses, I guess, so they were not able to take her anymore. I don't judge them for that.
Season 2:
Vernon: Hey... Clementine right? How are you?
Clementine: Bad enought.
Vernon: Look, I sorry about...
*Clementine making shoot his balls*
Clementine didn't know what Vernon did.
I know. It was joke.
good one though
Fucking dipshits,that's who they all are.
I didn't list Lilly cause she actually seemed very sweet under her skin..Whatever that means
The fact they their attitude turns the whole group against them (the only person who can leap to their defense is you) and they end up either dead or alone, so a bit of empathy can be a good survival tactic.
Kenny may well have killed Larry anyway but i think its a bit foolish to think his attitude towards killing Duck didn't influence that, or at least make it easier.
As for Lilly well her relationship with the group wasn't irreparable until she murdered Carley. I remember asking everyone about her at the start of Episode 3. Carley says she's worried about her, Kenny says that although they disagree he doesn't distrust her, etc. What she did on the road was unforgivable.
As for her increasing madness, well its not that out of character. She wanted to leave Lee, Kenny, Katjaa and Duck to die outside the drug store, then Ben in episode 2, along with a visible power craving (again look at her face when Carley calls Kenny "boss", or when anyone disagrees with her). Killing Carley wasn't all that out of character, the signs of what she would become were there. Larrys death is hardly an excuse anyway, everyone's lost people by that stage.
I swear, she was still holding a grudge against Carley for "disobeying" her in Episode 1, even though the people she and Glenn saved ended up being invaluable and one of them got the pills she needed for her dad.
I didn't pick up on it so much in the first time playing the game, but in hindsight i do think she cared more about her own authority than the fate of the group.
Lilly is just a godamn human.
Yes, leave her alone, she just wanted to survive...and became a little mad. She reminds me a little of Cersei Lannister (Game of Thrones).
If she will return to game (hope so), I would't let her to become a leader again. Bacause as Carley said: She just a scared little girl, who wanted to looks powerful. (or something like that)
P.S. I agree with others, Lilly always hated Carley.