Hell, I would've slapped a kevlar helmet on him and filed his teeth to points if the game let me.
So I decided not to cripple my Lee in undeath. Does that really make me a bad person?
That depends. Did you leave him that way because you want him to be a stronger zombie so he can eat people with less difficulty? If the answer is yes, then the answer is yes.
We don't need no crazy world dominators manufacturing super zombies to eliminate mankind, now.
That depends. Did you leave him that way because you want him to be a stronger zombie so he can eat people with less difficulty? If the answer is yes, then the answer is yes.
We don't need no crazy world dominators manufacturing super zombies to eliminate mankind, now.
I put him out of his misery. The one choice I never change no matter the playthrough and the only choice I wasn't thinking about clem when I made it, after everything Lee had done for her she owed him that much. . I needed her to learn that you don't let your friends turn.
It sucks for her (I would have got anyone else to do it but her) however I think it will be better for her rather than her imagining an undead Lee as she moves forward.
Put Lee out of his misery, it's the least he deserved, if anything he had earned the right to live, but since that could never happen, he more then earned eternal rest.
I left him, I had to put Clementines humanity above everything else. After everything she had been through making her shoot Lee seemed an heavy burden for a little girl to carry. I didn't want her to make hard choices like I did, It was purely the physiological effect that would take place on her from shooting him that made me leave Lee.
I encouraged Clem to shoot Lee so he didn't come back as a walker. I figured he deserved his rest and to rest in peace. As a rule I only leave people to turn that I don't like as a punishment.
In my second playthrough I left her to make the choice out of curiosity. She decided to leave Lee in the jewellery store without shooting him.
I saw someone say somewhere that it was for Clem to take responsibility for her actions, that wasn't exactly why I chose it but that's a good point I think. I mainly chose it because I feel like its a better end for Lee, in that position I would want to be put out of my misery. And I feel like if Clem left Lee behind, she might have regretted it later on.
That is what I say, some people say Clem will be messed up because she shot Lee, but the other side of the coin is she left her new father to become a walker, that would mess with you to.
I told her to leave Lee. I wanted her to save the bullet since that one extra shot could save her life later. There really was no need to shoot Lee since he was already made harmless by the handcuffs. Yes, shooting him could be a better end for a good man like Lee but I put Clementine's survival above it. Lee was dead already and not going anywhere.
I do not understand why some people believe he is not dead, yes I know it's because he is so beloved but it still does not make up for it, and in the words a wise woman, "whats done is done, and what is done can never be undone."
I understand those who want to give Lee a merciful end or want to teach Clem that she needs to stop others from turning. Maybe it's the "better" choice in the long term for Clem to shoot Lee, I don't know. But, at the end of the day, I simply couldn't tell a nine year old girl to shoot her father figure in the head. It might be in Lee's best interests, but I firmly believe it is not in Clem's best interests. Even at the end of the line, Lee's first thoughts are for Clem.
If there are rules to the zombie apocalypse, one of them is that you don't allow your own to come back to hunt the living. Its the humane thing, plus you don't want to endanger other survivors by leaving yet another walker in the world.
Also, I saw it as Lee's final lesson. Clem had to do it, because it is a cold reality of the world she is growing up in. It in all likelihood, won't be the last time Clem has to do something like that. If you allow Clementine to walk away without killing Lee, you're ignoring the advice Chuck gave Lee on the train. You got to see Clem as a survivor, not as a child.
Having Clem kill Lee is also a more emotionally powerful ending, IMO. It makes for a better conclusion to the story.
She's 9 years old and needs to escape a herd filled city. I thought she was going to need every bullet. Frugal is one of my middle names. The other is Stinge.
In saying that, I actually agree with Scaeva's points, except the "more emotionally powerful" bit.
Isn't teaching a nine-year-old that saving a single bullet is more important than ending your loved one's misery and keeping them from becoming a wandering corpse-monster kinda... messed up?
Isn't teaching a nine-year-old that saving a single bullet is more important than ending your loved one's misery and keeping them from becoming a wandering corpse-monster kinda... messed up?
He was handcuffed.
And nope. I wanted to increase her chances of getting the hell out of dodge. That was my immediate concern.
I thought she was covered in enough zombie goo to sneak away. And really, if it got to the point where she had to use every bullet at her disposal, she probably wouldn't have been able to escape anyway.
My main concern was not wanting her to have any regret over what she wasn't able to do for someone she cared for. When she reflects on that moment later, I can't see her regret shooting Lee but I can definitely see her regret leaving him to turn. Especially since she said "I don't know if I can" rather than "I don't know if I should." She wanted to stop Lee from turning. She knew it was the right thing to do. She just didn't have enough confidence that she could carry out the deed. And to survive in that world with her morality intact, she would need to know that she could.
Isn't teaching a nine-year-old that saving a single bullet is more important than ending your loved one's misery and keeping them from becoming a wandering corpse-monster kinda... messed up?
For me, it wasn't about saving a bullet. It was about giving Clem one measly, solitary break on the worst day of her life. The girl had seen enough "reality" to turn her soul into a blackened husk, and I knew she was only going to see more of it. So I had my Lee go against the grain. I flipped my middle finger at reality, and told Clementine she didn't have to do this. She had a choice. She could just walk away.
Because contrary to what Chuck might think, forcing Clem to commit one more action that she "has to do" doesn't ensure her survival. It just turns her into a machine. There's being alive, and then there's being alive and dead inside, which Chuck either didn't understand, or refused to. If I had my version of Clem take the shot, that would have been her first step towards becoming Molly, or Becca, or worse...Carl. Even if Telltale makes that outcome unavoidable, at least I'll know even in her darkest moment, I gave Clem a way out instead of trapping her.
Because contrary to what Chuck might think, forcing Clem to commit one more action that she "has to do" doesn't ensure her survival. It just turns her into a machine. There's being alive, and then there's being alive and dead inside, which Chuck either didn't understand, or refused to.
I think Chuck knew full well what it meant to be dead inside. But as you might have guessed from my user title, I don't think he is. Beaten, bruised, and bleeding. But not dead. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done what he did.
The issue seems to be that you think that whenever a character takes a difficult action that they "have to do" that it weakens their humanity. But that's not always the case. Sometimes, the difficult thing to do is the right thing to do. And it's the failure to do the right thing that erodes your humanity.
Yes, having Clementine shoot Lee is asking her to do a very, very difficult thing. But, at it's core, it's also having her perform one final an act of kindness for her father figure. It's letting her stop yet another person that she loves and cares about from becoming something that they never want to become. It has nothing to do with making Clementine strong enough to survive. It's about making her strong enough to be able to sacrifice for the ones that she loves. And that doesn't make her dead inside. That makes her more alive than anything else.
The issue seems to be that you think that whenever a character takes a difficult action that they "have to do" that it weakens their humanity. But that's not always the case. Sometimes, the difficult thing to do is the right thing to do. And it's the failure to do the right thing that erodes your humanity.
DomeWing, my point is Clem's life has been nothing BUT doing difficult things ever since the zombie apocalypse. You also seem to think that I view Clem as a child that absolutely has to be sheltered from everything, and that's B.S. I had my Clem walk away because I knew the rest of her life was probably going to be packed with all the pragmatic cruelty Chuck warned her about, and this was the one opportunity where I could go against the typical horror movie script of being forced to kill a loved one.
You think allowing someone to turn is a cruelty in itself, but as Lee said, "it won't be me". If the zombies of Kirkman's universe were capable of rational thought and knew how to pursue their victims (i.e. the Black Lanterns in the DC comic book world), then hell yeah, I'd take the shot. But Clem left my Lee one-armed and chained to a radiator. Even if his body decomposed to the point where he would be able to rip himself free, Clem would be long, long gone. I absolutely fail to see how Clem leaving Lee alive is "eroding her humanity". I mean, how do you make that assumption? Do you think the experience will simply make her naive enough to spare someone else who's about to turn? Clem is still just a child, but she's far from being stupid. Give her a little credit.
Yes, having Clementine shoot Lee is asking her to do a very, very difficult thing. But, at it's core, it's also having her perform one final an act of kindness for her father figure. It's letting her stop yet another person that she loves and cares about from becoming something that they never want to become. It has nothing to do with making Clementine strong enough to survive. It's about making her strong enough to be able to sacrifice for the ones that she loves. And that doesn't make her dead inside. That makes her more alive than anything else.
Not really. The one other person she cared about is dead one way or another. It's all about how you said goodbye. If someone with Chuck's attitude about life talks to Clem about Lee in S2 and makes the "realistic" assumption Clem shot Lee, I love that Clem can say "no", and Chuck's successor can say "WHAT?!" Personally, I'm glad that in this unpleasant, sneering world Kirkman created, Telltale gave me the chance to allow Clem to remain a naive fool for just one moment longer.
The ending, for me, is like an interactive version of Carla Jean's confrontation with Anton Chigurh in NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. Anton tells Carla to play by the rules of the coin if she wants to live. Carla basically tells him to fuck off. That's what my Lee does; he sees what the world is demanding of him and of Clementine. And he tells it to fuck off. That's what's so potent about the WD video game; the characters ARE actually influenced by your own personal philosophy.
Either way, we'll see how our decisions bear fruit in S2, and who was REALLY right or wrong in the end.
In my first playthrough, I had her kill me, but then I went back to the last second, and let her choose, thinking she'd still kill me, but she pussed out.
I know, I do hope it does not mess up Clem badly, I can see either choice affecting her, but if she becomes crazy because I made her shoot Lee then he is going to become a walker, despite me not wanting him to.
Comments
That depends. Did you leave him that way because you want him to be a stronger zombie so he can eat people with less difficulty? If the answer is yes, then the answer is yes.
We don't need no crazy world dominators manufacturing super zombies to eliminate mankind, now.
I had other reasons, I think. Does that count?
It sucks for her (I would have got anyone else to do it but her) however I think it will be better for her rather than her imagining an undead Lee as she moves forward.
In my second playthrough I left her to make the choice out of curiosity. She decided to leave Lee in the jewellery store without shooting him.
I saw someone say somewhere that it was for Clem to take responsibility for her actions, that wasn't exactly why I chose it but that's a good point I think. I mainly chose it because I feel like its a better end for Lee, in that position I would want to be put out of my misery. And I feel like if Clem left Lee behind, she might have regretted it later on.
Didn't want to waste a bullet and make unnecessary noise.
If there are rules to the zombie apocalypse, one of them is that you don't allow your own to come back to hunt the living. Its the humane thing, plus you don't want to endanger other survivors by leaving yet another walker in the world.
Also, I saw it as Lee's final lesson. Clem had to do it, because it is a cold reality of the world she is growing up in. It in all likelihood, won't be the last time Clem has to do something like that. If you allow Clementine to walk away without killing Lee, you're ignoring the advice Chuck gave Lee on the train. You got to see Clem as a survivor, not as a child.
Having Clem kill Lee is also a more emotionally powerful ending, IMO. It makes for a better conclusion to the story.
In saying that, I actually agree with Scaeva's points, except the "more emotionally powerful" bit.
He was handcuffed.
And nope. I wanted to increase her chances of getting the hell out of dodge. That was my immediate concern.
My main concern was not wanting her to have any regret over what she wasn't able to do for someone she cared for. When she reflects on that moment later, I can't see her regret shooting Lee but I can definitely see her regret leaving him to turn. Especially since she said "I don't know if I can" rather than "I don't know if I should." She wanted to stop Lee from turning. She knew it was the right thing to do. She just didn't have enough confidence that she could carry out the deed. And to survive in that world with her morality intact, she would need to know that she could.
For me, it wasn't about saving a bullet. It was about giving Clem one measly, solitary break on the worst day of her life. The girl had seen enough "reality" to turn her soul into a blackened husk, and I knew she was only going to see more of it. So I had my Lee go against the grain. I flipped my middle finger at reality, and told Clementine she didn't have to do this. She had a choice. She could just walk away.
Because contrary to what Chuck might think, forcing Clem to commit one more action that she "has to do" doesn't ensure her survival. It just turns her into a machine. There's being alive, and then there's being alive and dead inside, which Chuck either didn't understand, or refused to. If I had my version of Clem take the shot, that would have been her first step towards becoming Molly, or Becca, or worse...Carl. Even if Telltale makes that outcome unavoidable, at least I'll know even in her darkest moment, I gave Clem a way out instead of trapping her.
Like I said, I'm a scrooge
Irrespective, in TWD, I'm always doing it wrong and ruining it for all. So, yeah, DIRRIFA.
I think Chuck knew full well what it meant to be dead inside. But as you might have guessed from my user title, I don't think he is. Beaten, bruised, and bleeding. But not dead. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done what he did.
The issue seems to be that you think that whenever a character takes a difficult action that they "have to do" that it weakens their humanity. But that's not always the case. Sometimes, the difficult thing to do is the right thing to do. And it's the failure to do the right thing that erodes your humanity.
Yes, having Clementine shoot Lee is asking her to do a very, very difficult thing. But, at it's core, it's also having her perform one final an act of kindness for her father figure. It's letting her stop yet another person that she loves and cares about from becoming something that they never want to become. It has nothing to do with making Clementine strong enough to survive. It's about making her strong enough to be able to sacrifice for the ones that she loves. And that doesn't make her dead inside. That makes her more alive than anything else.
DomeWing, my point is Clem's life has been nothing BUT doing difficult things ever since the zombie apocalypse. You also seem to think that I view Clem as a child that absolutely has to be sheltered from everything, and that's B.S. I had my Clem walk away because I knew the rest of her life was probably going to be packed with all the pragmatic cruelty Chuck warned her about, and this was the one opportunity where I could go against the typical horror movie script of being forced to kill a loved one.
You think allowing someone to turn is a cruelty in itself, but as Lee said, "it won't be me". If the zombies of Kirkman's universe were capable of rational thought and knew how to pursue their victims (i.e. the Black Lanterns in the DC comic book world), then hell yeah, I'd take the shot. But Clem left my Lee one-armed and chained to a radiator. Even if his body decomposed to the point where he would be able to rip himself free, Clem would be long, long gone. I absolutely fail to see how Clem leaving Lee alive is "eroding her humanity". I mean, how do you make that assumption? Do you think the experience will simply make her naive enough to spare someone else who's about to turn? Clem is still just a child, but she's far from being stupid. Give her a little credit.
Not really. The one other person she cared about is dead one way or another. It's all about how you said goodbye. If someone with Chuck's attitude about life talks to Clem about Lee in S2 and makes the "realistic" assumption Clem shot Lee, I love that Clem can say "no", and Chuck's successor can say "WHAT?!" Personally, I'm glad that in this unpleasant, sneering world Kirkman created, Telltale gave me the chance to allow Clem to remain a naive fool for just one moment longer.
The ending, for me, is like an interactive version of Carla Jean's confrontation with Anton Chigurh in NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. Anton tells Carla to play by the rules of the coin if she wants to live. Carla basically tells him to fuck off. That's what my Lee does; he sees what the world is demanding of him and of Clementine. And he tells it to fuck off. That's what's so potent about the WD video game; the characters ARE actually influenced by your own personal philosophy.
Either way, we'll see how our decisions bear fruit in S2, and who was REALLY right or wrong in the end.
Plus I wanted to become a zombie.
This is why I had Clem shoot him. After all the crap he had been through in the past few months, Lee deserved to be able to rest. For good.