I wouldn't say I'd necessarily forgive the action itself, but her as a person, yes. I believe she was under great stress and was not in her right mind when she did what she did. You have to consider the world they're living in - her act didn't occur in a vacuum (isolated from everything else happening). It was influenced by the world around her, the vicious, death-filled world they've all learned to live in. Some have adapted better than others, and I'd argue that Lilly adapted in her own way, making her more fit to stay alive, but less fit to blend in with others.
In short, I'd love to see Lilly come back, and would not hold her past against her.
No forgiveness from me. The senator's family would probably never forgive Lee for his murder, just like I can't forgive Lilly for killing Carley. Then again, since it was my friend that got killed, I'm biased. Lilly has to find forgiveness from somewhere else.
I would appreciate her help, and yeah, I'd be glad to see her back I suppose. I would not forgive her for her actions, however. I wouldn't want to kill her, but I wouldn't be able to trust her in the group and I'd leave her. Either that or be EXTREMELY paranoid and cautious if she did magically come back. I don't like her as a person but she was an excellent character. It's hard to say how I'd react to seeing her again. I'd want revenge for Carley, but I wouldn't want to kill her. So... yeah, no forgiveness, sorry Lilly. I don't care where you are as long as it's not with my PC or Clemmy!
I would appreciate her help, and yeah, I'd be glad to see her back I suppose. I would not forgive her for her actions, however. I wouldn't want to kill her, but I wouldn't be able to trust her in the group and I'd leave her. Either that or be EXTREMELY paranoid and cautious if she did magically come back. I don't like her as a person but she was an excellent character. It's hard to say how I'd react to seeing her again. I'd want revenge for Carley, but I wouldn't want to kill her. So... yeah, no forgiveness, sorry Lilly. I don't care where you are as long as it's not with my PC or Clemmy!
Oh nice, don't have to write a text myself, that pretty much speaks for my opinion too. Maybe except for that I would kill her, at least that's what I keep telling me, if she was sorry, I probably wouldn't. Trusting her? No way, not after what she's done. If I was to choose wether or not to let her stay with the group, I wouldn't let her, not taking any chances there. On the other hand the new PC wouldn't know her, and I'd be acting in-character so hopefully Clem would be around telling people what Lilly has done. /edit ah, well shit... I ended up writing a text.
I would forgive her she wasn't in the right state of mind so I might have problems with trusting her at first but I think other than that it would work out
Oh nice, don't have to write a text myself, that pretty much speaks for my opinion too. Maybe except for that I would kill her, at least that's what I keep telling me, if she was sorry, I probably wouldn't. Trusting her? No way, not after what she's done. If I was to choose wether or not to let her stay with the group, I wouldn't let her, not taking any chances there. On the other hand the new PC wouldn't know her, and I'd be acting in-character so hopefully Clem would be around telling people what Lilly has done. /edit ah, well shit... I ended up writing a text.
Yeah.. yeah that is a lot of text. I keep saying I'd kill her too, but unless she killed Clementine or Lee I most likely wouldn't. Yeah, she killed Carley, and Carley was one of may favorite characters in the game. However, that wouldn't give me the right to blow her brains out. So... I'd either kick her out or if she wouldn't leave possibly allow someone else to do it. But to end the life on my own wouldn't be right. Some may say making someone else do the dirty deed would be no better, and normally I'd agree. However, it is more of the fact she just needs to go. That, and as a new character I'd be in no position to do it. if I was Kenny, then hell yes! In- character Well... maybe. He's sorta changed since they last met. If anything I wouldn't have her around Clementine, she's a worse influence than the Stranger(a bit overdramatic but true to me!)
Yeah.. yeah that is a lot of text. I keep saying I'd kill her too, but unless she killed Clementine or Lee I most likely wouldn't. Yeah, she killed Carley, and Carley was one of may favorite characters in the game. However, that wouldn't give me the right to blow her brains out. So... I'd either kick her out or if she wouldn't leave possibly allow someone else to do it. But to end the life on my own wouldn't be right. Some may say making someone else do the dirty deed would be no better, and normally I'd agree. However, it is more of the fact she just needs to go. That, and as a new character I'd be in no position to do it. if I was Kenny, then hell yes! In- character Well... maybe. He's sorta changed since they last met. If anything I wouldn't have her around Clementine, she's a worse influence than the Stranger(a bit overdramatic but true to me!)
How can she be forgiven when your acting as the new player???? this is what i posted about when i said 'Telltale have digged a hole for themselves' ,forget about what has gone before,you are a new character with no knowledge of Carley's death,Larry,Lee chained up or the saltlick lol this is maybe why it needs to be an all new group and characters.
I can understand why she did what she did but that isn't an excuse for not taking responsibility for her actions i.e. staying in the R.V. when told and not taking it away when we're not looking, to me that just shows she doesn't regret it. Forgive? Maybe. Trust? Not likely.
I'd show her what a knife in the back feels like... Simple as that really, no hesitation or debate about it. We see her again and i kill her.
I agree though that it would be weird since you're meeting her for the first time as the new PC. Maybe Clem can shoot her, my Lee would have approved.
I'd be happy enough just to see her as a walker or something if you chose to leave her on the side of the road so you can get some justice if you wanted it, knowing that Lee either killed or spared her, without the new PC issues.
People who want to kill Lilly, or Vernon, please tell me how you images this in game. New main character was never known them, never known what they did, or you think that main character will say: "Hey, I don't know who are you, I have nothing against you, but I heared that you shoot poor girl (or guy) in the head without reason, I must kill you *BANG*" ?
Or this: "Hey mister, I haven't got anything agains you, but I heared that you steal the boat from one black guy..." ?
People who want to kill Lilly, or Vernon, please tell me how you images this in game. New main character was never known them, never known what they did, or you think that main character will say: "Hey, I don't know who are you, I have nothing against you, but I heared that you shoot poor girl (or guy) in the head without reason, I must kill you *BANG*" ?
Or this: "Hey mister, I haven't got anything agains you, but I heared that you steal the boat from one black guy..." ?
Well you have a point there, but it's that feeling of being betrayed that makes us, those who want to kill them, so incredibly mad, that we would even kill them, if the new character was friends with them. However, the more I think, the more I'm wondering if I should just let go... UNLESS... Clem tells the new PC what those people have done, well okay, she doesn't know about Vernon, but if she tells the new PC about Lilly's actions, I might just fall to the temptation of killing Lilly, but probably I'll let her go, as long as she stays away from Clem and the others.
People who want to kill Lilly, or Vernon, please tell me how you images this in game. New main character was never known them, never known what they did, or you think that main character will say: "Hey, I don't know who are you, I have nothing against you, but I heared that you shoot poor girl (or guy) in the head without reason, I must kill you *BANG*" ?
Or this: "Hey mister, I haven't got anything agains you, but I heared that you steal the boat from one black guy..." ?
Well that's the issue. The character shouldn't know, but i will. I always played Lee as he was just the embodiment of myself withing the game and so he may be dead, but there's no way around the fact that the memories will carry over in the minds of the player.
I wouldn't be able to co-exist with Lilly because even if Lee's not there, i would be. So I'd kill her and it would make no sense.
That's why my preference is the Walker scenario, or if the call is left to Clementine to act on your teachings.
Well that's the issue. The character shouldn't know, but i will. I always played Lee as he was just the embodiment of myself withing the game and so he may be dead, but there's no way around the fact that the memories will carry over in the minds of the player.
I wouldn't be able to co-exist with Lilly because even if Lee's not there, i would be. So I'd kill her and it would make no sense.
That's why my preference is the Walker scenario, or if the call is left to Clementine to act on your teachings.
This is why I'm hoping Vernon(if he appears) will betray our new group as well, so we can freely unleash our hatred upon him.
The recurrence of situations with the same characters it is bad for the storyline, because it becomes predictable and uninteresting.
It doesn't have to be the exact same situation. He could begin by showing remorse for a past action our group is unaware of, and then after we believe he's a true good guy he does something horrible.
Story points are not a one and done thing, otherwise many movies these days would not be successful.
Well that's the issue. The character shouldn't know, but i will. I always played Lee as he was just the embodiment of myself withing the game and so he may be dead, but there's no way around the fact that the memories will carry over in the minds of the player.
I wouldn't be able to co-exist with Lilly because even if Lee's not there, i would be. So I'd kill her and it would make no sense.
That's why my preference is the Walker scenario, or if the call is left to Clementine to act on your teachings.
It doesn't have to be the exact same situation. He could begin by showing remorse for a past action our group is unaware of, and then after we believe he's a true good guy he does something horrible.
Story points are not a one and done thing, otherwise many movies these days would not be successful.
Why do you hate Vernon so much? I didn't mind him, he was nice to me. He saves Omid, gets you supplies, and actually helps in fixing the boat. He saves your life and gets you back to your group safely. He loses one of his own because of your group's stupidity(BEN)... He leaves his sick group to tend to your's, he even asks to take care of Clem in your stead. He shows kindness if you show it back.
Yeah... he ends up stealing the boat, but he could have done worse. He ends up beating up anyone you leave at the mansion, yet he doesn't kill them. He doesn't leave them for the walkers, and he doesn't tamper with the house(even though I don't understand how he got through the front doors), and they even leave a note of forgiveness for taking the boat if you are all gone. Yeah, he did a bad thing taking that boat, but it didn't kill anyone, and he could have possibly done us a favor, as everyone probably would have died just trying to get to the waterfront. You need a vehicle to drag it there, you need the food and fuel for it, and you need supplies in case it... IDK, broke down in the middle of the ocean?
So yeah, if I meet him again, we won't be on the best of terms, but I think I'd trust him.
Why do you hate Vernon so much? I didn't mind him, he was nice to me. He saves Omid, gets you supplies, and actually helps in fixing the boat. He saves your life and gets you back to your group safely. He loses one of his own because of your group's stupidity(BEN)... He leaves his sick group to tend to your's, he even asks to take care of Clem in your stead. He shows kindness if you show it back.
Yeah... he ends up stealing the boat, but he could have done worse. He ends up beating up anyone you leave at the mansion, yet he doesn't kill them. He doesn't leave them for the walkers, and he doesn't tamper with the house(even though I don't understand how he got through the front doors), and they even leave a note of forgiveness for taking the boat if you are all gone. Yeah, he did a bad thing taking that boat, but it didn't kill anyone, and he could have possibly done us a favor, as everyone probably would have died just trying to get to the waterfront. You need a vehicle to drag it there, you need the food and fuel for it, and you need supplies in case it... IDK, broke down in the middle of the ocean?
So yeah, if I meet him again, we won't be on the best of terms, but I think I'd trust him.
As a (poorly remembered) quote from one of my favorite games says..."There are two things i hate the most in this world: poison and betrayal." The first part isn't applicable here, but the second certainly is.
Trust becomes one of the most important things in a zombie apocalypse scenario, and if you betray that trust, you're not staying with me or my group(if I'm the leader). Vernon didn't tell us about the thousands of walkers approaching the city in the church tower, and then stole our boat. It doesn't matter if the boat plan was crap to begin with, what matters is that i can't rely on Vernon for anything, because i know he's not above leaving us to die for his own sake(he obviously thought the boat would work, since he took it).
Vernon of all people knew exactly how dangerous Savannah is, and his group took with them what little food was left. Adding that he knew our method of entrance(and safest exit) was overrun with walkers(the train) and didn't even bother to warn us, he willingly left us all to rot, and is only sorry about Clementine. Those types of people have no place in my group.
As a (poorly remembered) quote from one of my favorite games says..."There are two things i hate the most in this world: poison and betrayal." The first part isn't applicable here, but the second certainly is.
Trust becomes one of the most important things in a zombie apocalypse scenario, and if you betray that trust, you're not staying with me or my group(if I'm the leader). Vernon didn't tell us about the thousands of walkers approaching the city in the church tower, and then stole our boat. It doesn't matter if the boat plan was crap to begin with, what matters is that i can't rely on Vernon for anything, because i know he's not above leaving us to die for his own sake(he obviously thought the boat would work, since he took it).
Vernon of all people knew exactly how dangerous Savannah is, and his group took with them what little food was left. Adding that he knew our method of entrance(and safest exit) was overrun with walkers(the train) and didn't even bother to warn us, he willingly left us all to rot, and is only sorry about Clementine. Those types of people have no place in my group.
As a (poorly remembered) quote from one of my favorite games says..."There are two things i hate the most in this world: poison and betrayal." The first part isn't applicable here, but the second certainly is.
Trust becomes one of the most important things in a zombie apocalypse scenario, and if you betray that trust, you're not staying with me or my group(if I'm the leader). Vernon didn't tell us about the thousands of walkers approaching the city in the church tower, and then stole our boat. It doesn't matter if the boat plan was crap to begin with, what matters is that i can't rely on Vernon for anything, because i know he's not above leaving us to die for his own sake(he obviously thought the boat would work, since he took it).
Vernon of all people knew exactly how dangerous Savannah is, and his group took with them what little food was left. Adding that he knew our method of entrance(and safest exit) was overrun with walkers(the train) and didn't even bother to warn us, he willingly left us all to rot, and is only sorry about Clementine. Those types of people have no place in my group.
... It's not that I don't agree with you, and I do not like those who are only for themselves, but Vernon thought of telling you. He either did it so you could leave and he could steal the boat or so you wouldn't freak out. To me, he wasn't part of the group, and he had his own to worry about. He helps save many people; it's only right he tries to save his own. I agree that was selfish and a dikish move, but hasn't Lee's group done basically the same? You steal those supplies from the car which ends up in a family's utter destruction. We didn't know. So... we are no better, yes? We put our group before others, against our better judgement. Yeah, many of us didn't agree to it, but we thought about it. And I bet quite a few of us just didn't want the blame on theirselves.
In my opinion, he was just looking out for HIS group, and for that, to get his group to safety, he decided to take the boat. I won't outright trust him if he returns, but I don't sespise the guy. So... yeah. Normally I'd agree I wouldn't want people like that in my group, and if he WAS in my group, I'd prob want him dead like Lilly, but he wasn't. So I don't hold it that much against him. That's my standing anyway. I think many of you just have anger directed at other things and are taking it out on him xD
You can't compare the station wagon to Vernon's taking the boat. You see, everyone thought the car as abandoned. The group was starving. It was either take that food, or die from slow starvation. If everyone had known that the car was actually NOT abandoned, far less people would have taken the supplies. Hell, even Kenny might have backed off if the family had shown up and said "Hey, that stuff's ours." It's more the Stranger's fault than our own, for leaving his car, full of supplies, with the lights on, in the middle of the woods where the bandits make their base and cannibals come to trap food. It sucks, what happened to him and his family, but he should have expected something like that could happen in the apocalypse.
On the other hand, Vernon KNEW that the boat was ours. Sure he helped us get into Crawford, but he had his own reasons for doing it. He wanted the medicine for his people, and the only reason the two groups teamed up was because they both needed supplies from the same place. After he helped us get our stuff for the boat, and after we helped him get his meds, he flat out refuses to tell us about the thousands of flesh eating undead monsters that are descending on the town. After that, when Lee goes to look for Clem, he comes back, armed, and steals the boat that he KNEW we were going to use. And anyone left behind gets locked in the shed. If Lee hadn't come back to the mansion, then whoever got locked in the shed would have starved. That's up to four people Vernon could possibly have sentenced to die. He knowingly left our group, which included a 9-year-old he pretended to want to protect, behind to die.
Vernon knew very well that the boat had a capacity problem, so I'm guessing that he assumed that Lee would put his group first as priority on the boat and would leave Vernon and his group on ice. I hate him for taking the boat, but on the other hand he was looking out for his own group just like Lee was looking after his. In a way it's karma Lee took willingly or not the supplies from the wagon only to get kicked in the a$$ by losing the one chance of survival with the boat.
Would you forgive her for shooting Carley/Doug if she helped the PC?
I would be happy if Lilly returned. If you think about it, Clem and Lilly are the characters that need to appear in season 2 since, by what they say and do, we are reminded of the decision we made in Season 1.
In my game, Clem might say something like "Lee always liked you Lilly and was sorry for what Kenny did to your dad" in another game she might say "They're all dead Lilly. All because of you. I hope you're happy".
See, it can be win-win regardless if you are team Lilly or team Kenny.
If we want someone else to be with Clem to tell us all of Lee's choices, then wouldn't Kenny be a bit more logical than Lilly? She was with us until Episode 3, while Kenny was with us for nearly the whole way. And since we never saw a body, there is every chance that Telltale can bring Kenny back for an appearance in Season 2!
You can't compare the station wagon to Vernon's taking the boat. You see, everyone thought the car as abandoned. The group was starving. It was either take that food, or die from slow starvation. If everyone had known that the car was actually NOT abandoned, far less people would have taken the supplies. Hell, even Kenny might have backed off if the family had shown up and said "Hey, that stuff's ours." It's more the Stranger's fault than our own, for leaving his car, full of supplies, with the lights on, in the middle of the woods where the bandits make their base and cannibals come to trap food. It sucks, what happened to him and his family, but he should have expected something like that could happen in the apocalypse.
On the other hand, Vernon KNEW that the boat was ours. Sure he helped us get into Crawford, but he had his own reasons for doing it. He wanted the medicine for his people, and the only reason the two groups teamed up was because they both needed supplies from the same place. After he helped us get our stuff for the boat, and after we helped him get his meds, he flat out refuses to tell us about the thousands of flesh eating undead monsters that are descending on the town. After that, when Lee goes to look for Clem, he comes back, armed, and steals the boat that he KNEW we were going to use. And anyone left behind gets locked in the shed. If Lee hadn't come back to the mansion, then whoever got locked in the shed would have starved. That's up to four people Vernon could possibly have sentenced to die. He knowingly left our group, which included a 9-year-old he pretended to want to protect, behind to die.
Let me ask this: We knew SOMEONE left it behind recently, for the lights were on, supplies were left, and the open-door warning sounds were going off. Pretty obvious signs someone was out there. The fact is the group took the supplies because there was noone there to say exactly as you said, "Hey, that's our stuff!" Any excuse that could be made to assume it'd be right to take those supplies, you better bet they would have been taken. Kenny, Katjaa, and Ben would have definitely, and truly if Mark and Larry were alive they'd have been on the same position. Vernon, if you take everyone with you, leaves a note to apologize. At least he had the decency for that.
Anyway, I'm sure if he knew that taking the boat would have killed anyone he wouldn't have done it either, and guess what? It didn't kill anyone. By the time the group would have gotten back to the Mansion, they would have had no time to get the boat to open water. And what about Clem, who was all alone? In my mind, Vernon unknowingly saved the group from a dumb plan that would have killed them anyway and gave Lee an excuse to go after Clem. Otherwise, everyone probably would have left without him. Yeah, you could say it causes(maybe) Ben's death and Kenny's(if dead). However, you could also say it saves Clementine and Christa and Omid. So... it depends on how you look at it.
If we want someone else to be with Clem to tell us all of Lee's choices, then wouldn't Kenny be a bit more logical than Lilly? She was with us until Episode 3, while Kenny was with us for nearly the whole way. And since we never saw a body, there is every chance that Telltale can bring Kenny back for an appearance in Season 2!
^ (Still in denial)
Yeah....but Kenny is dead. Unless you're thinking Clem is talking to walker Kenny who has no arms and no lower jaw....kinda creepy. But I guess tha would work...sort of...
Yeah....but Kenny is dead. Unless you're thinking Clem is talking to walker Kenny who has no arms and no lower jaw....kinda creepy. But I guess tha would work...sort of...
Why wouldn't he have...? ... Never mind... I don't want to know. Idk, I just want him to be alive.
... It's not that I don't agree with you, and I do not like those who are only for themselves, but Vernon thought of telling you. He either did it so you could leave and he could steal the boat or so you wouldn't freak out. To me, he wasn't part of the group, and he had his own to worry about. He helps save many people; it's only right he tries to save his own. I agree that was selfish and a dikish move, but hasn't Lee's group done basically the same? You steal those supplies from the car which ends up in a family's utter destruction. We didn't know. So... we are no better, yes? We put our group before others, against our better judgement. Yeah, many of us didn't agree to it, but we thought about it. And I bet quite a few of us just didn't want the blame on theirselves.
In my opinion, he was just looking out for HIS group, and for that, to get his group to safety, he decided to take the boat. I won't outright trust him if he returns, but I don't sespise the guy. So... yeah. Normally I'd agree I wouldn't want people like that in my group, and if he WAS in my group, I'd prob want him dead like Lilly, but he wasn't. So I don't hold it that much against him. That's my standing anyway. I think many of you just have anger directed at other things and are taking it out on him xD
Couldn't agree more. Having the boat or not they would've died. What makes it more interesting, if we had the boat then the group might have split-up depending on the your choices. For instance Kenny would've gone alone or with Ben on water and Lee is left with Omid and Christa if you show the bite.
Let me ask this: We knew SOMEONE left it behind recently, for the lights were on, supplies were left, and the open-door warning sounds were going off. Pretty obvious signs someone was out there. The fact is the group took the supplies because there was noone there to say exactly as you said, "Hey, that's our stuff!" Any excuse that could be made to assume it'd be right to take those supplies, you better bet they would have been taken. Kenny, Katjaa, and Ben would have definitely, and truly if Mark and Larry were alive they'd have been on the same position. Vernon, if you take everyone with you, leaves a note to apologize. At least he had the decency for that.
Anyway, I'm sure if he knew that taking the boat would have killed anyone he wouldn't have done it either, and guess what? It didn't kill anyone. By the time the group would have gotten back to the Mansion, they would have had no time to get the boat to open water. And what about Clem, who was all alone? In my mind, Vernon unknowingly saved the group from a dumb plan that would have killed them anyway and gave Lee an excuse to go after Clem. Otherwise, everyone probably would have left without him. Yeah, you could say it causes(maybe) Ben's death and Kenny's(if dead). However, you could also say it saves Clementine and Christa and Omid. So... it depends on how you look at it.
Hey, i didn't want to steal from the station wagon either! Christa is wrong, i would never do the same(but the group overrules my opinion so they do it anyway). Vernon knew we would probably try to flee on the train if he stole the boat, and decided to let us kill ourselves by walking into a herd so he could quietly slip away on the water. The least he could have done was warn us about it in the note after he already took the boat, but he didn't even do that. Maybe i would have forgiven him if he mentioned this tiny little detail, but he didn't and that says to me that he doesn't care about anyone other than his own people. Maybe Kenny, Lilly, Carley, Doug, Katjaa, etc would all do the same, but i would stand against them as well.
My Lee is willing to chop a complete strangers' leg off and patch him up to try and save his life, but Vernon can't even tell the people that helped him get medicine that they're walking into thousands of undead.
Comments
No, but new main character will not know about what she did.
P.S. If I'll not forgive her, it's not means that I hate her, and want to kill her. I love her, she's a great character for this universe.
Ditto
In short, I'd love to see Lilly come back, and would not hold her past against her.
I let her on the RV but I'm not going to accept her apology anymore than Lilly would accept Kenny's
Oh nice, don't have to write a text myself, that pretty much speaks for my opinion too. Maybe except for that I would kill her, at least that's what I keep telling me, if she was sorry, I probably wouldn't. Trusting her? No way, not after what she's done. If I was to choose wether or not to let her stay with the group, I wouldn't let her, not taking any chances there. On the other hand the new PC wouldn't know her, and I'd be acting in-character so hopefully Clem would be around telling people what Lilly has done. /edit ah, well shit... I ended up writing a text.
Yeah.. yeah that is a lot of text. I keep saying I'd kill her too, but unless she killed Clementine or Lee I most likely wouldn't. Yeah, she killed Carley, and Carley was one of may favorite characters in the game. However, that wouldn't give me the right to blow her brains out. So... I'd either kick her out or if she wouldn't leave possibly allow someone else to do it. But to end the life on my own wouldn't be right. Some may say making someone else do the dirty deed would be no better, and normally I'd agree. However, it is more of the fact she just needs to go. That, and as a new character I'd be in no position to do it. if I was Kenny, then hell yes! In- character
I don't know about that last part
Right my fault my man
Agree though, at least the Stranger didn't shoot a woman for her opinion.
"Anger management" is no term to Lilly I guess...
I agree though that it would be weird since you're meeting her for the first time as the new PC. Maybe Clem can shoot her, my Lee would have approved.
I'd be happy enough just to see her as a walker or something if you chose to leave her on the side of the road so you can get some justice if you wanted it, knowing that Lee either killed or spared her, without the new PC issues.
Or this: "Hey mister, I haven't got anything agains you, but I heared that you steal the boat from one black guy..." ?
Well you have a point there, but it's that feeling of being betrayed that makes us, those who want to kill them, so incredibly mad, that we would even kill them, if the new character was friends with them. However, the more I think, the more I'm wondering if I should just let go... UNLESS... Clem tells the new PC what those people have done, well okay, she doesn't know about Vernon, but if she tells the new PC about Lilly's actions, I might just fall to the temptation of killing Lilly, but probably I'll let her go, as long as she stays away from Clem and the others.
Well that's the issue. The character shouldn't know, but i will. I always played Lee as he was just the embodiment of myself withing the game and so he may be dead, but there's no way around the fact that the memories will carry over in the minds of the player.
I wouldn't be able to co-exist with Lilly because even if Lee's not there, i would be. So I'd kill her and it would make no sense.
That's why my preference is the Walker scenario, or if the call is left to Clementine to act on your teachings.
This is why I'm hoping Vernon(if he appears) will betray our new group as well, so we can freely unleash our hatred upon him.
The recurrence of situations with the same characters it is bad for the storyline, because it becomes predictable and uninteresting.
It doesn't have to be the exact same situation. He could begin by showing remorse for a past action our group is unaware of, and then after we believe he's a true good guy he does something horrible.
Story points are not a one and done thing, otherwise many movies these days would not be successful.
Amen!
Why do you hate Vernon so much? I didn't mind him, he was nice to me. He saves Omid, gets you supplies, and actually helps in fixing the boat. He saves your life and gets you back to your group safely. He loses one of his own because of your group's stupidity(BEN)... He leaves his sick group to tend to your's, he even asks to take care of Clem in your stead. He shows kindness if you show it back.
Yeah... he ends up stealing the boat, but he could have done worse. He ends up beating up anyone you leave at the mansion, yet he doesn't kill them. He doesn't leave them for the walkers, and he doesn't tamper with the house(even though I don't understand how he got through the front doors), and they even leave a note of forgiveness for taking the boat if you are all gone. Yeah, he did a bad thing taking that boat, but it didn't kill anyone, and he could have possibly done us a favor, as everyone probably would have died just trying to get to the waterfront. You need a vehicle to drag it there, you need the food and fuel for it, and you need supplies in case it... IDK, broke down in the middle of the ocean?
So yeah, if I meet him again, we won't be on the best of terms, but I think I'd trust him.
As a (poorly remembered) quote from one of my favorite games says..."There are two things i hate the most in this world: poison and betrayal." The first part isn't applicable here, but the second certainly is.
Trust becomes one of the most important things in a zombie apocalypse scenario, and if you betray that trust, you're not staying with me or my group(if I'm the leader). Vernon didn't tell us about the thousands of walkers approaching the city in the church tower, and then stole our boat. It doesn't matter if the boat plan was crap to begin with, what matters is that i can't rely on Vernon for anything, because i know he's not above leaving us to die for his own sake(he obviously thought the boat would work, since he took it).
Vernon of all people knew exactly how dangerous Savannah is, and his group took with them what little food was left. Adding that he knew our method of entrance(and safest exit) was overrun with walkers(the train) and didn't even bother to warn us, he willingly left us all to rot, and is only sorry about Clementine. Those types of people have no place in my group.
... It's not that I don't agree with you, and I do not like those who are only for themselves, but Vernon thought of telling you. He either did it so you could leave and he could steal the boat or so you wouldn't freak out. To me, he wasn't part of the group, and he had his own to worry about. He helps save many people; it's only right he tries to save his own. I agree that was selfish and a dikish move, but hasn't Lee's group done basically the same? You steal those supplies from the car which ends up in a family's utter destruction. We didn't know. So... we are no better, yes? We put our group before others, against our better judgement. Yeah, many of us didn't agree to it, but we thought about it. And I bet quite a few of us just didn't want the blame on theirselves.
In my opinion, he was just looking out for HIS group, and for that, to get his group to safety, he decided to take the boat. I won't outright trust him if he returns, but I don't sespise the guy. So... yeah. Normally I'd agree I wouldn't want people like that in my group, and if he WAS in my group, I'd prob want him dead like Lilly, but he wasn't. So I don't hold it that much against him. That's my standing anyway. I think many of you just have anger directed at other things and are taking it out on him xD
On the other hand, Vernon KNEW that the boat was ours. Sure he helped us get into Crawford, but he had his own reasons for doing it. He wanted the medicine for his people, and the only reason the two groups teamed up was because they both needed supplies from the same place. After he helped us get our stuff for the boat, and after we helped him get his meds, he flat out refuses to tell us about the thousands of flesh eating undead monsters that are descending on the town. After that, when Lee goes to look for Clem, he comes back, armed, and steals the boat that he KNEW we were going to use. And anyone left behind gets locked in the shed. If Lee hadn't come back to the mansion, then whoever got locked in the shed would have starved. That's up to four people Vernon could possibly have sentenced to die. He knowingly left our group, which included a 9-year-old he pretended to want to protect, behind to die.
I would be happy if Lilly returned. If you think about it, Clem and Lilly are the characters that need to appear in season 2 since, by what they say and do, we are reminded of the decision we made in Season 1.
In my game, Clem might say something like "Lee always liked you Lilly and was sorry for what Kenny did to your dad" in another game she might say "They're all dead Lilly. All because of you. I hope you're happy".
See, it can be win-win regardless if you are team Lilly or team Kenny.
^ (Still in denial)
Let me ask this: We knew SOMEONE left it behind recently, for the lights were on, supplies were left, and the open-door warning sounds were going off. Pretty obvious signs someone was out there. The fact is the group took the supplies because there was noone there to say exactly as you said, "Hey, that's our stuff!" Any excuse that could be made to assume it'd be right to take those supplies, you better bet they would have been taken. Kenny, Katjaa, and Ben would have definitely, and truly if Mark and Larry were alive they'd have been on the same position. Vernon, if you take everyone with you, leaves a note to apologize. At least he had the decency for that.
Anyway, I'm sure if he knew that taking the boat would have killed anyone he wouldn't have done it either, and guess what? It didn't kill anyone. By the time the group would have gotten back to the Mansion, they would have had no time to get the boat to open water. And what about Clem, who was all alone? In my mind, Vernon unknowingly saved the group from a dumb plan that would have killed them anyway and gave Lee an excuse to go after Clem. Otherwise, everyone probably would have left without him. Yeah, you could say it causes(maybe) Ben's death and Kenny's(if dead). However, you could also say it saves Clementine and Christa and Omid. So... it depends on how you look at it.
Yeah....but Kenny is dead. Unless you're thinking Clem is talking to walker Kenny who has no arms and no lower jaw....kinda creepy. But I guess tha would work...sort of...
Why wouldn't he have...? ... Never mind... I don't want to know. Idk, I just want him to be alive.
Couldn't agree more. Having the boat or not they would've died. What makes it more interesting, if we had the boat then the group might have split-up depending on the your choices. For instance Kenny would've gone alone or with Ben on water and Lee is left with Omid and Christa if you show the bite.
Hey, i didn't want to steal from the station wagon either! Christa is wrong, i would never do the same(but the group overrules my opinion so they do it anyway). Vernon knew we would probably try to flee on the train if he stole the boat, and decided to let us kill ourselves by walking into a herd so he could quietly slip away on the water. The least he could have done was warn us about it in the note after he already took the boat, but he didn't even do that. Maybe i would have forgiven him if he mentioned this tiny little detail, but he didn't and that says to me that he doesn't care about anyone other than his own people. Maybe Kenny, Lilly, Carley, Doug, Katjaa, etc would all do the same, but i would stand against them as well.
My Lee is willing to chop a complete strangers' leg off and patch him up to try and save his life, but Vernon can't even tell the people that helped him get medicine that they're walking into thousands of undead.