Why was Katjaa so selfish towards the end?

edited July 2013 in The Walking Dead
Don't get me wrong I view Katjaa as the heart of the group and the most level headed person there. Which really confuses me on why she would kill herself.

I get why she would want to die, but basically she shoots herself because Kenny has changed and she couldn't lose her son?

Duck was about to die and she couldn't deal with it. So either she took him into the woods and shot herself leaving a bitten Duck for Kenny to deal with, or she shot herself in front of Kenny because she couldn't live without Duck and the man Kenny was changing into.

All of this just seemed out of character for her. I could see her shooting Duck and then herself out of guilt, but the way she just left Kenny to deal with everything didn't seem like the Katjaa we were shown the previous two episodes.

Anyone else think this was weird?
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Comments

  • edited July 2013
    I think Katjaa kept most everything bottled up so she wouldn't seem like a detriment to the group when there were other more important issues to deal with, like the lack of supplies. The way Kenny was a big factor, but Duck getting bitten is what pushed her over the edge.
  • edited July 2013
    I think it was not out of character, she loved her son more then life it's self, it makes sense to me.
  • edited July 2013
    she lost hope, that's all. Everything she did was to make sure Duck can survive. That was her goal in life, now that she lost it, life became meaningless to her.
  • edited July 2013
    That is what parents are like, that is how my family is like and I am sure many others are.
  • edited July 2013
    That is what parents are like, that is how my family is like and I am sure many others are.

    Well said. I have a son myself and in Kenny's shoes I can't say for certain if i would have made it back to the train with Lee.
  • edited July 2013
    She was pregnant.
  • edited July 2013
    musdy wrote: »
    She was pregnant.

    No Kenny was pregnant.
  • edited July 2013
    No Kenny was pregnant.

    I'm sorry, Duck is a fetus.
  • edited July 2013
    No Lily was pregnant with Kenny Junior!!!!
  • edited July 2013
    In some ways Kenny was the strongest of the group. He managed to deal with the death of his wife and son, and continued to be a badass. If we lost Clementine instead of Duck, how many people do you think wouldn't be able to continue? I'm guessing a lot, myself included.

    Katjaa couldn't deal with a world without her son. Kenny had already changed so much. If you compare the Kenny from the farm in episode 1 to the Kenny at the start of episode 3, they seem like two different people. Perhaps she knew Kenny would be strong enough to continue without her, and that saddened her even more.
  • edited July 2013
    In some ways Kenny was the strongest of the group. He managed to deal with the death of his wife and son, and continued to be a badass. If we lost Clementine instead of Duck, how many people do you think wouldn't be able to continue? I'm guessing a lot, myself included.

    Katjaa couldn't deal with a world without her son. Kenny had already changed so much. If you compare the Kenny from the farm in episode 1 to the Kenny at the start of episode 3, they seem like two different people. Perhaps she knew Kenny would be strong enough to continue without her, and that saddened her even more.

    I'm always disappointed to see how many people hate Kenny for "turning into an asshole after episode 3". The poor guy has to deal with constant shit - having no choice but to kill a guy and being treated like a monster for it (if you side against him, Lee even implies he thinks Kenny deserves to DIE for what he did), forced to go on dangerous supply-runs even after getting shot in the gut, watching his wife and son get shot in the head, depending on the player's choices possibly even having to kill Duck HIMSELF, running into a walker who looks exactly like his dead son, finding out his best friend is bitten and after all that ALSO gets his boat stolen, the only hope he had left. Yet even though he has to deal with all that - he doesn't give up. He keeps trying to help the group, even though he has nothing left. Kenny was definitely one of the strongest characters from the group - I think someone who goes through all that horrible shit in less then a week time GETS to act like an asshole for a while :D
  • edited July 2013
    I will say strong also, I can't remember seeing a character like that be so that strong for sometime.
  • edited July 2013
    Selfish? No. Mother's Greif mostly. She lost the only thing she brought into this world, with her world crashing down around her. Could you imagine how much that hurts?
  • edited July 2013
    I'm always disappointed to see how many people hate Kenny for "turning into an asshole after episode 3". The poor guy has to deal with constant shit - having no choice but to kill a guy and being treated like a monster for it (if you side against him, Lee even implies he thinks Kenny deserves to DIE for what he did), forced to go on dangerous supply-runs even after getting shot in the gut, watching his wife and son get shot in the head, depending on the player's choices possibly even having to kill Duck HIMSELF, running into a walker who looks exactly like his dead son, finding out his best friend is bitten and after all that ALSO gets his boat stolen, the only hope he had left. Yet even though he has to deal with all that - he doesn't give up. He keeps trying to help the group, even though he has nothing left. Kenny was definitely one of the strongest characters from the group - I think someone who goes through all that horrible shit in less then a week time GETS to act like an asshole for a while :D

    yeah, thats the way i look at it, if one of my friends suffer a devastating loss and then become bit of a grumpy asshole towards me, i am not going to hold that against them, it's a natural part of being in a bad mood
  • edited July 2013
    stevean2 wrote: »
    Selfish? No. Mother's Greif mostly. She lost the only thing she brought into this world, with her world crashing down around her. Could you imagine how much that hurts?

    But the way she just leaves Kenny I found surprising. Kenny was suffering just like she was and now Kenny has to deal with two deaths in his family instead of one.
  • edited July 2013
    I'm always disappointed to see how many people hate Kenny for "turning into an asshole after episode 3". The poor guy has to deal with constant shit - having no choice but to kill a guy and being treated like a monster for it (if you side against him, Lee even implies he thinks Kenny deserves to DIE for what he did), forced to go on dangerous supply-runs even after getting shot in the gut, watching his wife and son get shot in the head, depending on the player's choices possibly even having to kill Duck HIMSELF, running into a walker who looks exactly like his dead son, finding out his best friend is bitten and after all that ALSO gets his boat stolen, the only hope he had left. Yet even though he has to deal with all that - he doesn't give up. He keeps trying to help the group, even though he has nothing left. Kenny was definitely one of the strongest characters from the group - I think someone who goes through all that horrible shit in less then a week time GETS to act like an asshole for a while :D


    I'm not sure what scene Lee implies he thinks Kenny deserves to die , but I'm guessing Lee must've thought that because Kenny left him to die multiple times because of a petty grudge, not because he killed Larry. I was impressed how he didn't lose his shit in ep 4, but I was also really pissed off with how he acted in ep 5. He goes on a hypocritical rant on his wife for taking the easy way out, and then uses Ben as an excuse to self-justify a selfish suicide. Or he gets himself killed by being an idiot if Ben's dead.

    Anyways, I can definitely understand why Katjaa did what she did. She knew Clem would be find with Lee, she'd lost Robin and Kenny wasn't the man she loved anymore. I feel bad for her.:(
  • edited July 2013
    musdy wrote: »
    I'm sorry, Duck is a fetus.

    And Duck was pregnant too. With a duck. Duckception.
  • edited July 2013
    That1Guy wrote: »
    And Duck was pregnant too. With a duck. Duckception.

    Well, so much for my ClemxDuck shipping...
  • edited July 2013
    I'm not sure what scene Lee implies he thinks Kenny deserves to die , but I'm guessing Lee must've thought that because Kenny left him to die multiple times because of a petty grudge, not because he killed Larry. I was impressed how he didn't lose his shit in ep 4, but I was also really pissed off with how he acted in ep 5. He goes on a hypocritical rant on his wife for taking the easy way out, and then uses Ben as an excuse to self-justify a selfish suicide. Or he gets himself killed by being an idiot if Ben's dead.

    Anyways, I can definitely understand why Katjaa did what she did. She knew Clem would be find with Lee, she'd lost Robin and Kenny wasn't the man she loved anymore. I feel bad for her.:(

    Lee actually said that before Kenny left him to die. I don't remember the exact quote, but if you talk to Kenny in the meat locker, Kenny asks Lee something in the way of "Don't you and Lilly want to kill me and hang me up on a meathook to leave me to rot?", and Lee responds "It's not about what I want, we have to find a way to get out of here". Ouch.

    I always thought the reason he stayed behind with Ben was because he felt bad about treating him so horribly. He found out Ben lost his family too, and didn't want to leave him to die alone. I'm not even sure if he really intended to get himself killed - if you say "Okay, Goodbye" after he locks the door, he tells Lee (once again, I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like this) "Don't worry pal, I'll be fine", which seems to imply he thinks he'll make it out alive.

    How is his Christa-death idiotic, though? In the scene before his death, he finds out about Christa's pregnancy. When Christa got stuck in the dark, walker-filled room, Kenny felt like he couldn't just stand by and watch another mother and child die, so he jumped down to save her. I thought his death was pretty touching - giving his own life to save another family.

    I feel really sorry for Katjaa too, and I don't blame her for taking her own life. I doubt I'd be able to deal with watching my son dying, especially when the entire world has gone to shit. (Duck's name is Ken Jr. though, not Robin :P)
  • edited July 2013
    I thought the same thing about the Ben scene, I think he wanted to save him and when he knew he could not he put him out of his misery.
  • edited July 2013
    If the apocalypse happens IRL, I'd be the first individual out of 9 billions to become a psychopath.
  • edited July 2013
    That is great news to here Web Head, *loads gun* you better not come by my house when the dead walk among us.
  • edited July 2013
    Web Head wrote: »
    If the apocalypse happens IRL, I'd be the first individual out of 9 billions to become a psychopath.

    Have you always been a closet psychopath or would you be looking at exploring it as a new career move? :D
  • edited July 2013
    Duck's death was a major factor, but not the only one.

    To Katjaa, she had nothing left to live for not only because Duck was gone, but Kenny was also gone in a sense. When she figures out that Kenny smashed Larry's head, Katjaa became very distraught. You can see her pained expression, and Katjaa said something along the lines of "everything is changing." I see this as Katjaa see Kenny no longer being the man she had always known before the walkers. Katjaa or Kenny had already mentioned that they argue every night with Katjaa telling Kenny to loosen up. Kenny had to harden up to protect the people he loved, but in doing so, he also became a different person.

    So in Katjaa's mind, she lost not just Duck, but her entire family. The lost of the motor inn and the incident outside the RV made it worse. She had lost her family, her home, and a friend.
  • edited July 2013
    Lee actually said that before Kenny left him to die. I don't remember the exact quote, but if you talk to Kenny in the meat locker, Kenny asks Lee something in the way of "Don't you and Lilly want to kill me and hang me up on a meathook to leave me to rot?", and Lee responds "It's not about what I want, we have to find a way to get out of here". Ouch.

    I always thought the reason he stayed behind with Ben was because he felt bad about treating him so horribly. He found out Ben lost his family too, and didn't want to leave him to die alone. I'm not even sure if he really intended to get himself killed - if you say "Okay, Goodbye" after he locks the door, he tells Lee (once again, I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like this) "Don't worry pal, I'll be fine", which seems to imply he thinks he'll make it out alive.

    How is his Christa-death idiotic, though? In the scene before his death, he finds out about Christa's pregnancy. When Christa got stuck in the dark, walker-filled room, Kenny felt like he couldn't just stand by and watch another mother and child die, so he jumped down to save her. I thought his death was pretty touching - giving his own life to save another family.

    I feel really sorry for Katjaa too, and I don't blame her for taking her own life. I doubt I'd be able to deal with watching my son dying, especially when the entire world has gone to shit. (Duck's name is Ken Jr. though, not Robin :P)

    Eh, people think crazy stuff when they're mad. Don't forget that Kenny wanted to do a lot worse to Ben than just hang him on a meat hook and leave him to rot after he found out about his betrayal. Can't really blame Lee and Lilly feeling that way immediately after he crushed Larry's head.

    The fact that Kenny decided to stay behind for Ben (if that was the case) isn't what bothers me. It's how he makes a dramatic speech about what Katjaa did was wrong and how you should stay strong for the people you care about. I mean, how hypocritical. He wasn't there for Katjaa or Duck when they needed him, and he commits a pointless suicide immediately after his grand speech.

    And I'm sure he stayed with Ben for selfish reasons. If he really believed what he'd just preached, he would have stayed alive for Lee ad Clem's sake. The fact that he died for someone he knew couldn't be saved, rather than stay alive for someone that he could've saved just shows that Ben was an excuse to die heroically. Not to mention Kenny obviously cared for Clem much more than he ever cared for Ben. And if he wasn't planning to die, then what was he planning to do after he left Lee? Just climb down a manhole and hang around there for a while? If he didn't want to die, he would've shot Ben and gone with Lee.

    To be honest, I was angry with everyone in the Christa-death scene. It was really poorly written. For one thing, it was already established that Christa was smart and didn't like risks, yet she jumps straight in without a plan. Why did the one-armed man have to lift her up? Why did Kenny jump in after Christa and not her own boyfriend? I guess I was just really frustrated with that scene and projected that onto Kenny...or something.

    And Duck will always be Robin to me.:(
  • edited July 2013
    True love even child
  • edited July 2013
    Put yourself in her shoes and you'll understand why she did it.

    I don't think suicide is a sin, and I don't blame her either - but I reckon Kenny would've gotten over his son's death better with her support.

    Kenny effectively did the same thing by saving Christa / Ben (that is, if he is dead, of course).

    I don't know why Katjaa gets all the hate for offing herself but Kenny gets love from the same people for (potentially) suicide by Walker...

    Logic, Lol.
  • edited July 2013
    The Law wrote: »
    Put yourself in her shoes and you'll understand why she did it.

    I don't think suicide is a sin, and I don't blame her either - but I reckon Kenny would've gotten over his son's death better with her support.

    Kenny effectively did the same thing by saving Christa / Ben (that is, if he is dead, of course).

    I don't know why Katjaa gets all the hate for offing herself but Kenny gets love from the same people for (potentially) suicide by Walker...

    Logic, Lol.

    Maybe it's because Kenny does something heroic/selfless on his way out, unlike Katjaa who just ate a bullet. He either saves a pregnant woman, or attempts to save a kid, and then puts him out of his misery at the cost of being torn to pieces by walkers in both scenarios. I don't view either scenario as intentional suicide, even the Ben scene. The way he says he either "saves the kid or gets to see Katjaa again" makes me think it was him trying to save Ben no matter what. Of course, if he'd just done a headcount on the walkers, he would have known that wasn't likely to happen. But hey, maybe he's only as good at math as he is at hand-to-hand combat.
  • edited July 2013
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Maybe it's because Kenny does something heroic/selfless on his way out, unlike Katjaa who just ate a bullet. He either saves a pregnant woman, or attempts to save a kid, and then puts him out of his misery at the cost of being torn to pieces by walkers in both scenarios. I don't view either scenario as intentional suicide, even the Ben scene. The way he says he either "saves the kid or gets to see Katjaa again" makes me think it was him trying to save Ben no matter what. Of course, if he'd just done a headcount on the walkers, he would have known that wasn't likely to happen. But hey, maybe he's only as good at math as he is at hand-to-hand combat.

    Yeah - it's probably because he went out in a blaze of glory...
  • OlgaSedovaOlgaSedova Banned
    edited July 2013
    If Kenny was my husband, I would have killed myself too.
  • edited July 2013
    Well that is just swell.
  • edited July 2013
    I'm always disappointed to see how many people hate Kenny for "turning into an asshole after episode 3". The poor guy has to deal with constant shit - having no choice but to kill a guy and being treated like a monster for it (if you side against him, Lee even implies he thinks Kenny deserves to DIE for what he did), forced to go on dangerous supply-runs even after getting shot in the gut, watching his wife and son get shot in the head, depending on the player's choices possibly even having to kill Duck HIMSELF, running into a walker who looks exactly like his dead son, finding out his best friend is bitten and after all that ALSO gets his boat stolen, the only hope he had left. Yet even though he has to deal with all that - he doesn't give up. He keeps trying to help the group, even though he has nothing left. Kenny was definitely one of the strongest characters from the group - I think someone who goes through all that horrible shit in less then a week time GETS to act like an asshole for a while :D
    Dude! Kenny was an ass long before he lost his wife and son. He was an ass when he tried to drive off and leave Lilly when the motor inn was being overrun before she snapped and did something punish worthy. He was an ass when he left Lee to die in the drugstore. He was an ass when he told Lee to let the woman in the street suffer so they good use her dying screams to draw out the hidden walkers. He was an ass when he left Lee to die in the barn after Lee tried to save Larry. He was an ass when he sent Lee to do all the risky,dirty work like investigating the ST John's hidden room whilst he put his feet up and had dinner with the group. Oh yeah and he was an ass when he ran off and left Lee struggling to help Sean when he could have simply told his son to run in the direction of his mother and Clementine.

    If Kenny is so strong why did he turn to drink? (Chuck drank but he never got drunk.) He wasn't the only person to have lost some one. When Ben tells him what he's been through, he himself accepted that Ben had it worse than him since he never had any time with his family at all after the apocalypse. Ben's outburst is what gave Kenny the wakeup call and stopped him from being self-absorbed and focusing on what he has lost. That was the defining moment where Kenny became heroic and redeemed himself by putting someone before himself for once. When he stayed with Ben so the walkers didn't get him.
  • edited July 2013
    OlgaSedova wrote: »
    If Kenny was my husband, I would have killed myself too.
    Finding out what Kenny did in the meat locker definitely contributed to Kat's decision to kill herself. "Karma's a bitch!" The funny thing was It was me that told her what he did. The look on his face when I asked to speak to his wife was priceless. He was shitting himself, because he had something to hide. My question to those that agreed with Kenny's decision is if Kenny was really alright about his choices why did he feel the need to keep what he did in the meat locker from his nearest and dearest? He knew what he did was fucked up and he didn't want his wife to judge him for it.
  • edited July 2013
    I think he would not know how Katjaa would take the news, but it's anyones guess.
  • edited July 2013
    I think it was not out of character, she loved her son more then life it's self, it makes sense to me.
    And finding out that her husband abandoned his humanity and concealed from her what he did in the meat locker probably didn't help matters either.
  • edited July 2013
    In some ways Kenny was the strongest of the group. He managed to deal with the death of his wife and son, and continued to be a badass. If we lost Clementine instead of Duck, how many people do you think wouldn't be able to continue? I'm guessing a lot, myself included.

    Katjaa couldn't deal with a world without her son. Kenny had already changed so much. If you compare the Kenny from the farm in episode 1 to the Kenny at the start of episode 3, they seem like two different people. Perhaps she knew Kenny would be strong enough to continue without her, and that saddened her even more.

    One Kenny was no badass, he got his ass kicked in every altercation he was in, he got owned by a chick and the elderly,not to mention the ass whoopin he got from me.

    secondly Kenny didn't get over losing his wife and son. In Kenny's defence it was only a couple of days before his last scene so he can't be expected to. Kenny managed because of the support from Lee and the hope that Clementine renewed when she found the boat. Had it not been for that he would have drunk himself into oblivion.
  • edited July 2013
    MickH wrote: »
    Have you always been a closet psychopath or would you be looking at exploring it as a new career move? :D

    looooool yep, it could be something new you know? "providence"?
  • edited July 2013
    loop hole wrote: »
    Dude! Kenny was an ass long before he lost his wife and son. He was an ass when he tried to drive off and leave Lilly when the motor inn was being overrun before she snapped and did something punish worthy. He was an ass when he left Lee to die in the drugstore. He was an ass when he told Lee to let the woman in the street suffer so they good use her dying screams to draw out the hidden walkers. He was an ass when he left Lee to die in the barn after Lee tried to save Larry. He was an ass when he sent Lee to do all the risky,dirty work like investigating the ST John's hidden room whilst he put his feet up and had dinner with the group. Oh yeah and he was an ass when he ran off and left Lee struggling to help Sean when he could have simply told his son to run in the direction of his mother and Clementine.

    If Kenny is so strong why did he turn to drink? (Chuck drank but he never got drunk.) He wasn't the only person to have lost some one. When Ben tells him what he's been through, he himself accepted that Ben had it worse than him since he never had any time with his family at all after the apocalypse. Ben's outburst is what gave Kenny the wakeup call and stopped him from being self-absorbed and focusing on what he has lost. That was the defining moment where Kenny became heroic and redeemed himself by putting someone before himself for once. When he stayed with Ben so the walkers didn't get him.

    kenny didn't leave Lilly he was driving so he could have if he wanted to plus Lilly looked like she was hesitating as to whether to leave or not, Lee didn't die kenny just didn't help a guy that wouldn't help him,
    killing a woman and putting yourself in danger is no better or worse than letting her die, she dies either way, Lee was winning the fight and plus Lee didn't help kenny (in the scenario you are talking about), getting lee to check the barn wasn't making him do dirty work, it was just not leaving his family with people he suspects are bad guys to check out a barn that may possibly have some evidence of them being bad guys and kenny dropping Duck to save a stranger never crossed my mind, why would a parent take a risk like that? kenny just has survivor's guilt.

    i don't know if you ever drink alcohol but the point of drinking it is to get drunk (Chuck was probably always drunk) and getting drunk after losing your entire family in front of you is an understandable but not advisable thing to do in a zombie apocalypse, and i don't think kenny actually thought Ben's story was worse than his but it made him realise other people are really unhappy as well so maybe he should rethink how he treats him
  • edited July 2013
    kenny didn't leave Lilly he was driving so he could have if he wanted to plus Lilly looked like she was hesitating as to whether to leave or not, Lee didn't die kenny just didn't help a guy that wouldn't help him,
    killing a woman and putting yourself in danger is no better or worse than letting her die, she dies either way, Lee was winning the fight and plus Lee didn't help kenny (in the scenario you are talking about), getting lee to check the barn wasn't making him do dirty work, it was just not leaving his family with people he suspects are bad guys to check out a barn that may possibly have some evidence of them being bad guys and kenny dropping Duck to save a stranger never crossed my mind, why would a parent take a risk like that? kenny just has survivor's guilt.

    i don't know if you ever drink alcohol but the point of drinking it is to get drunk (Chuck was probably always drunk) and getting drunk after losing your entire family in front of you is an understandable but not advisable thing to do in a zombie apocalypse, and i don't think kenny actually thought Ben's story was worse than his but it made him realise other people are really unhappy as well so maybe he should rethink how he treats him

    He was going to leave Lilly. If you have Doug with you, you get a scene where Lee tells Kenny to "hurry up with that thing" with a shot of Kenny struggling to start the up the RV. Also ,from his seat in the front he had no way of seeing where Lilly was while he was working and therefore didn't know she was coming when he started driving. It's interesting what people think of Beatrice's situation though. If it were me, I'd shoot her without hesitation. Can you imagine being slowly ripped apart and devoured? She was screaming for like five minutes. So for me, Kenny was an ass there. And Lee was not winning against Andy, he would've been shot if Lilly hadn't saved him. Besides, how is Kenny not an asshole for letting his friend die over one disagreement and ignoring all the times Lee saved his family?

    If he only realized other people have it just as bad a little sooner, hell if he just thought about anyone other than his family for once, he wouldn't have been such an ass.:(
  • edited July 2013
    Well, he actually did think of others in Episode 1. Unfortunately, it wasn't until a few moments before his "death" in Episode 5 that he started doing it again. Even though I was his best friend, there were some moments where he really was a huge jerk to others.
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