Sam & Max 205: What's New, Beelzebub? - Reviews & Discussions w/ Spoilers
There is no way to give a good non-spoiler review, so this is just for people who have finished the game and wish to post reviews or discuss the new revelations in the game (and there are quite a few).
----Spoilers included, so play the game first
I just finished the game and Telltale has truly outdone themselves with this finale. It's the longest of any of the chapters which makes up for having one less episode this season. Many found the previous episode to be the best so far, but this one is the crowning achievement for the series. It's perfectly paced and with brilliant writing and acting. Of course they connect in the "future" from episode 201 where they save themselves from the lava. Some were worried that was going to be a big anticlimatic climax, but it was handled perfectly.
The big reveal of the Soda Poppers as the villians behind the whole season wasn't something that I saw coming, but it makes as much sense as anything, I suppose. When the chair swung around it could have been anyone, but they did have it planned from the beginning where the Soda Poppers were inexplicably standing outside Santa's Workshop. There's probably more clues if I went back and replayed the season.
The other semi-"big reveal" was that Bosco's mother was responsible for his paranoya over for 40 years because her store was vandalized and she hired Flint Paper to find the culprit. ...but doesn't she complain about the store being vandalized to Sam & Max in episode 204 when they time travel back to her store? Wouldn't that mean the incident happened before Bosco was born because they were collecting DNA for the baby-maker at the time? I don't want to nitpick, but maybe I missed something and someone can explain that.
One other slight nitpick, if female Stinky was just a "cake of the damned" and the real Stinky even said she didn't kill him, then she really didn't lie very much to get the coal. She may have cheated at trivia and for some reason the "Sal" she was yelling the orders to doesn't exist, but otherwise she wasn't that bad of a person/cake. So did she deserve a lot of coal in her stocking? or any at all considering she's not even human?
Satan's hints at their involvement in the future which will probably play a big part in season 3. Since the final scene (if you watch past the credits) kills off the annoying Soda Poppers for good, eyeballs floating in the lava and all, their souls are going to be in hell and future cameos are possible, but not outside of hell. I also think that Bosco now (audibly) snapped mind could turn him into a villian somewhere down the road.
Overall the puzzles were intuative, fun and somewhat challenging; not overly easy like the first season. Also the hints that Max tosses off seemed so conversational and vague. From "Let's get out of here" if you're wandering about in the wrong place to "I feel like fishing" followed up by "I can't believe the subway to hell was right under us all along" for solving the puzzle of how to get one of the game cartridges from the other side of the tracks. I really loved the indirectness of the clues because I'm not sure I would have thought of that.
I know the limit for involved puzzles is greatly hindered by the episodic format, so there's only so much that can go into them. They also write the games with no "dead-ends" so it's impossible to trap yourself in a no win situation. So whenever you get something to happen, you know it's right, while in full length games you're always wondering if you did it right or at the right time. It's very user friendly and welcoming to non-adventure game players, but I do miss the deaths and consequences that poorly thought out actions can bring.
My only suggestion would be for a full length game or even a reworking of a full season into one seamless game. Expanding the puzzles adding some scenes to flesh out the game so all the locations of the season are explorable and can be used to create more intricate stories and puzzles. You can tell that I'm missing the old long Sierra and Lucasarts adventure games, and would love to see these snack-size games merged into a giant reimagined feast of an adventure game like the original Sam & Max.
However, for this format the Sam & Max team have hit their stride in the second half of this season and have come a long way in crafting puzzles and stories. I especially like the cliffhanger endings of 203 & 204. Every episode should end with a bit of a cliffhanger leading us right into the next episode. I hope they will from now on.
I'm very happy with the quality of these works long after the adventure game was declared dead. They are only getting better and thank the gods (a.k.a. The Telltale Staff) that the adventure game is back!
----Spoilers included, so play the game first
I just finished the game and Telltale has truly outdone themselves with this finale. It's the longest of any of the chapters which makes up for having one less episode this season. Many found the previous episode to be the best so far, but this one is the crowning achievement for the series. It's perfectly paced and with brilliant writing and acting. Of course they connect in the "future" from episode 201 where they save themselves from the lava. Some were worried that was going to be a big anticlimatic climax, but it was handled perfectly.
The big reveal of the Soda Poppers as the villians behind the whole season wasn't something that I saw coming, but it makes as much sense as anything, I suppose. When the chair swung around it could have been anyone, but they did have it planned from the beginning where the Soda Poppers were inexplicably standing outside Santa's Workshop. There's probably more clues if I went back and replayed the season.
The other semi-"big reveal" was that Bosco's mother was responsible for his paranoya over for 40 years because her store was vandalized and she hired Flint Paper to find the culprit. ...but doesn't she complain about the store being vandalized to Sam & Max in episode 204 when they time travel back to her store? Wouldn't that mean the incident happened before Bosco was born because they were collecting DNA for the baby-maker at the time? I don't want to nitpick, but maybe I missed something and someone can explain that.
One other slight nitpick, if female Stinky was just a "cake of the damned" and the real Stinky even said she didn't kill him, then she really didn't lie very much to get the coal. She may have cheated at trivia and for some reason the "Sal" she was yelling the orders to doesn't exist, but otherwise she wasn't that bad of a person/cake. So did she deserve a lot of coal in her stocking? or any at all considering she's not even human?
Satan's hints at their involvement in the future which will probably play a big part in season 3. Since the final scene (if you watch past the credits) kills off the annoying Soda Poppers for good, eyeballs floating in the lava and all, their souls are going to be in hell and future cameos are possible, but not outside of hell. I also think that Bosco now (audibly) snapped mind could turn him into a villian somewhere down the road.
Overall the puzzles were intuative, fun and somewhat challenging; not overly easy like the first season. Also the hints that Max tosses off seemed so conversational and vague. From "Let's get out of here" if you're wandering about in the wrong place to "I feel like fishing" followed up by "I can't believe the subway to hell was right under us all along" for solving the puzzle of how to get one of the game cartridges from the other side of the tracks. I really loved the indirectness of the clues because I'm not sure I would have thought of that.
I know the limit for involved puzzles is greatly hindered by the episodic format, so there's only so much that can go into them. They also write the games with no "dead-ends" so it's impossible to trap yourself in a no win situation. So whenever you get something to happen, you know it's right, while in full length games you're always wondering if you did it right or at the right time. It's very user friendly and welcoming to non-adventure game players, but I do miss the deaths and consequences that poorly thought out actions can bring.
My only suggestion would be for a full length game or even a reworking of a full season into one seamless game. Expanding the puzzles adding some scenes to flesh out the game so all the locations of the season are explorable and can be used to create more intricate stories and puzzles. You can tell that I'm missing the old long Sierra and Lucasarts adventure games, and would love to see these snack-size games merged into a giant reimagined feast of an adventure game like the original Sam & Max.
However, for this format the Sam & Max team have hit their stride in the second half of this season and have come a long way in crafting puzzles and stories. I especially like the cliffhanger endings of 203 & 204. Every episode should end with a bit of a cliffhanger leading us right into the next episode. I hope they will from now on.
I'm very happy with the quality of these works long after the adventure game was declared dead. They are only getting better and thank the gods (a.k.a. The Telltale Staff) that the adventure game is back!
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Comments
1. Gotta say, wasn't expecting evil Soda Poppers... They had been taking so much time building themselves up as incompetent idiots.
2. Full of awesome. Although I do wish that the bell-book-candle exorcism you did on them wasn't so... dull-feeling compared to the one they do on you.
3. Lots of niggling plot details. Stinky's a cake (WTF), the volcano eruption got moved to hell where it finished off the soda poppers, and for some reason "late last year" is "a long time ago" to sam. Also, it would appear that, in the spirit of time-traveling portals, the portal they went through on the Mariachi's spaceship sent them forward in time. No other way they could have experienced the timeline they did and still end up with the finale in September. Momma Bosco, as I expected, hired a PI to try to find her own son, and we team up with Satan to restore the natural order of things. Hell freezes over (in one of the more bizarre scenes). And of course, we finally get to see how the first several episodes tied in in a more-than-trivial fashion. Plot summary in retrospective of the season follows.
The above posts contain my sentiments on 205! Now, please rethink Season 3 in '09---make it Fall again!
And the wedding scenes at the end were funny too, especially Max's interception of the bouquet.
I also liked that earlier Max had made a comment expressing his opinion that Jurgen might be a girl, and then at the wedding we see him amongst the ladies trying to catch the bouquet... I love how paying close attention reveals even more jokes and humor that gets worked in subtly.
Oh, and I hope we see Grandpa Stinky a lot more from now on! He's my new favorite character (besides Sam and Max of course). His face also looks like it's been modeled after that old lady from the Bone series (haven't played it, just seen her face in screenshots.)
at the start of episode 204, when you enter the spaceship, Bosco explain how he tested the T.H.E.M destector device o n himself. the card time printed led him, in the store in the 60ies, beforehe was born (the card was printed because, later this day, the baby maker would be used by moma Bosco, making it in fact the first bosco birthday) . When he got out of the elvator, he saw his mother,he paniked and in his panicked run shoved trashed somme shelves and splied milk in the father sample tube, ruining the father saliva sample and leading to the whole Boscow thing...
Sam ans Max first arrived in the past store five minute after bosco's got in here (despite the fact he wasn't even borned at the time: ahh the marvelous language of time travel !).
The coal was due to the fact she kept lying about how she obtained element of the the decor, and about all the "celebtrities" that she "met", i think.
Wich does lead to the interesting question:
If you die in hell were do you go for punishement ? (The answer would be most interesting to know given the fact that the only place worse than hell, i can think of is ... the S&M neibourghood.)
oh, so that's why ! I though he escaped or something .
All in one, congratulation to telltale game for a devilishly good season finale.
I do think that the Soda Poppers will be added to the Sam & Max Wing of Hell. They did die and certainly proved themselves evil enough to go to hell and they were killed during one of Sam & Max's cases, which qualifies them their own cubicle in the special wing.
Where was this?
Now, the new stinky duo , brrrr , those two are scary.
I liked the episode a lot exept, for abe bachelor party. Honestly having Flint (even considering he may have been stoned drunk) cheering before the dancing monster just seemed out of character. (I mean, flint kisses lady, real ones, dammit !)
Ps: Is it revealed, who superball worked for in 204 ? (i guess it may have been the sodda popers or simply hell but i don't remeber being precisely sais somewhere )
Absolutely terrific, worth my very very hard earned 8.95 indeed!
Thanks guys, you make me proud!
the whole plotline that even reached back to 101 was awesome and a lot of loose ends got tied..well, expect for superball and the fact that it has to be the 6th of september in 205..
i wonder how much was already planned during season 1. for example: was brady culture absent after 101 because he was already supposed to be dead? and where the poppers in 201 because they were intended to be the villains. would be interesting to know..
That wouldn't be a problem, except that it's apparently the Poppers' birthday in the closing scene with the cake and the candle.
The calendar on the wall ...
My guess would be no and yes. After 101 Culture simply became irrelevant, and I think that at most Telltale kept him in the freezer for possible later use. When they got around to planning the rough storyline of season 2 they probably did have the ^@^&; Poppers in mind as villains. Keep in mind the production schedule of the seasons.
Overall season 2 was a very nice improvement on season 1. Kudos to telltale
Have you not seen the plant in S&M's office? Maybe Brady has some culture of his own?
I was kind of hoping this episode would be more based in hell, or perhaps even having more rooms to base the puzzles in. I'd hate to say it but I'd be willing to sacrifice game length if it meant more valuable time in hell
One thing that particularly bugged me was the usage of the giant robot. I was expecting for sure that Sam would control the giant robot in the end in an epic battle with Satan.... but all he did was retrieve a coin...
anyway, the credits were awesome and I cant wait til more awesomeness in 09
This really made me wanna play more and I can't wait for season3. take all the time you need to get back to us with another good seaon. I will be paying much more attention now during each episode
No. Actually several of us were hoping to get him into the 106 closing credits, bald, but there wasn't enough time to remove the hair from his model.
Yes, that was planned from the beginning of Season Two.
...and kill a multitude of rats, and spout hilarious song lyrics, and provide a friend for Tiny Timmy, and encourage people to dance the hokey pokey....
My computer had the most trouble with the Bachelor party, probably because it had 6 NPCs PLUS Sam and Max in the room at once, all being rendered in a small area. Either that or the Garbage Collector was freeing up memory during the entire scene (programming reference, don't worry if you don't get it.)
must've been hard for you to explain why the poppers were in 201 in those interviews when it was released...:D
I doubt it. He's always been no more than a tool.
... Although I guess he was acting in his own self-interest when trying to win Sybil's affection in 203.
Still, I couldn't imagine him as someone in charge.
My one criticism is something that I was surprised to see in the Destructoid Review because it was exactly what I was thinking: Peepers shouldn't have been in Sam's hell. As funny as that was (and it was very funny), it definitely blunted the impact of their big reveal as the season's villains. Since both plot aspects are so funny, I'm not sure how to resolve that. But I think the big reveal would've ultimately been stronger.
Still, it's hard to complain about an episode that feels like a worthy finale to BOTH seasons. I just wonder what's left for season 3.
Sam selected Peepers as partner, he could not select something who never saw... and honestly restricting the choice to the game character I can't imagine anyone worse.
It's not that I don't understand it... it's just that as perfect as it is, it does make it less shocking when the three soda poppers appear as the surprise villain. It's hard for them to surprise you twice in a row, even though technically it made sense and technically it was actually a demon version of Peepers.
Sam:- We are back to the office. It does not seems so bad, right little pal?
Demon Stinky:- Yes, dear.
Sam:- What the hell? Since when I have a female partner?
Demon Stinky:- I am not sure what you mean, I am a guy. You know. We take bath together.
Sam:- ARGH...
Demon Stinky:- Stop slacking, let's work in the case.
Sam:- What is the case again?
Demon Stinky:- The commissioner wants us check the <boring paperwork>.
Sam:- I miss the old days, when the cases were more shooting and less writing.
Demon Stinky:- We never used the guns in a case, what are you saying...
ect ect
That said? By the gods, this was the best game of the series. Which is saying something when I thought Chariot of the Dogs previously had that title! So, some quickie notes:
-That was the longest period before the opening credits yet! I loved it.
-Maimtron 9000 returns! And I'm surprised that when controlling Maimtron and clicking on Satan, Telltale didn't go with the obvious "Please allow me to introduce myself" joke. Did anyone else click on as much as they could while controlling Maimtron?
-I clicked the "Laugh" option on Brady Culture far too many times, hoping for another punchline. Telltale, you spoiled me with the "Them" joke in 201! Between this and "Superball" from 203, I'm getting disappointed. I was also disappointed there was no punchline for asking Bosco who's watch him, either.
-When I "fixed" the swear list, I couldn't wait to hear little Timmy swear. And loved the results.
-There were two times that I inhaled in horror, mouth gaping, eyes wide open and pointing at the screen. And BOTH of them involved the &%*$ Poppers! The alternate intro credits was hilarious. Plus, GIANT MAX!!
-Awesome design work on everything, especially the big red guy. For some reason, I even thought the design on the carpet in the lobby where Juergen (sp?) worked was quite good. One of those little things that made me realize just how much hard work the team put into the game.
-I had to use Max's hints a few times (like the game cartridge puzzle). Had a hard time trying to figure out where to get a rib bone, too.
-The places where you couldn't touch the evil entity in the sexual harassment poster was hilarious.
-The wedding/reception at the end had me in tears of laughter for some of the parts of it.
All in all, a great ending to a fantastic season. Telltale's really hitting their stride, in my opinion. Season 1 was good, but if you compare the first episode with this one, you can tell that they've improved in leaps and bounds.
Can't wait for the Strong Bad games! I'll be ordering that season soon!
One more from 203-204. It was never really explained how Max got back from being a zombie. He didn't catch his soul in 203 (after chasing it in the cliffhanger) , and then is shown on a presidential speaker's booth AS a zombie in the end credits.
One thing that really suprised me was how useless the Flint Paper character turned out to be. From the beginning of 201 when we see him "questioning" a suspect in his room, I thought this character would be somewhat essential to the plot. He was not.