Who do you trust more? Luke, Kenny, or Lilly? Because it will play an important role in season 2.
I have recently come to the conclusion that at some point, Kenny and Lilly are both going to end up joining or traveling or at least talking with the Cabin group at the same time. You may notice that this article also assumes that Luke will probably take over a Pseudo-leadership position of the Cabin survivors. This is suggested heavily by the credits and the trailers for season 2, as well as the teaser for episode 2 shown at the end of episode 1.
This leads to an interesting point: both Kenny and Lilly have done things that for obvious reasons they would not want the others to know (They would not want to run the risk as to how the others would react, much like Lee and his past in episode 1.)
Example Scenario of how this plays out: the Cabin group needs to get to somewhere, but come across three paths, and two groups of three people each arguing. Kenny is in one trio, Lilly in the other.
It turns out that that Lilly's group and Kenny's group are also going in the same direction as Luke's. Kenny's group wants to use one trail, Lilly's the other. Luke wants to use the path. Each is certain that their path is the right way to go, and that the other groups are headed into deathtraps. Kenny and Lilly are both uncertain about the middle path Luke is suggesting.
Ultimately, we are going to be forced to choose between trusting Luke, Kenny, or Lilly. Lilly asks Clem to tell them what Kenny did, Kenny asks Clem to tell the group what Lilly did, and Luke asks Clem to stay silent so he can try to meet an arrangement or defuse the situation.
At this point, Luke's group is going to turn to Clementine to get a reading on who they should trust. With Kenny and Lilly's social influence in the balance, all eyes rest on Clementine.
At this point we are going to be given choices that will dramatically alter who trusts who in the group, and who has an influence over the balance of power and choices made in the group.
Which choice the player picks will depend entirely on who they personally trust more.
Lilly and Kenny: Clem, tell them what this asshole/bitch did!
Nick/Pete/Alvin: "Clementine, is their anything you want to say about these guys?"
Luke: Look we've all done bad things to survive, Clem, things are heated enough as it is, and you did say that you know these people, it would probably be better if we just kept that shit to ourselves and went on with our lives.
- "Lilly shot Carley/Doug in cold blood!" (The group distrusts Lilly, Trusts Kenny more. The group goes with Kenny's party, Lilly leaves her group and bitterly comes along with Luke's out of concern for Clementine's safety)
- "Kenny Crushed her dad's head with a salt lick..." (The group distrusts Kenny, Trusts Lilly more. Luke's group teams up with Lilly's party, Kenny leaves his group to go their route and bitterly comes along with Luke's group out of concern for Clementine's safety)
- "It doesn't matter what they did to survive, you guys nearly shot me, then locked me in a damp shed without medical help when I was injured! You guys left me to die! And since then Carlos and Rebecca have been treating me like it was my fault!" (Lilly and Kenny distrusts the group mutually, they seem to ignore their mutual hatred of each other to make room for their mutual concern for Clementine's safety and mutual disgust at the cabin group for not looking after Clem. After several members in the Cabin group react negatively towards Clementine over what she said , a concerned Kenny and Lilly both declare that they are going with Luke's group down the middle path, because they'll take care of Clementine if no-one in the cabin group does) {basically, Cabin group trusts Clem less, Kenny and Lilly display some teeth clenched teamwork in the name of protecting Clementine, they both mutually trust the Cabin group less.} Everyone in both groups goes down the middle path.
- ... [(?) They came to their own conclusions/Luke managed to make them meet an agreement...] (All parties distrust each other a little bit more, they all end up going down the middle path together due to Luke's diplomacy, and Kenny and Lilly's mutual concern over Clem's safety)
[In case you were wondering, all three paths turn out to be deathtraps for their own reasons, that get Kenny and Lilly's four 'extra' friends killed, and perhaps one of the Cabin groups for the personal emotional impact upon the player. Whichever path you go on actually determines who gets blamed for the deaths and loses respect/trust/authority. Lukes path (Luke is blamed). Kenny's path (Kenny is blamed). Lilly's path (Lilly is blamed). ] Remember that this event occurs in episode 2 or 3, and possibly is what leads to episode 3's scary slide after the deathtrap route gets them captured by Carver.
What do you think guys, does a situation similar to this one seem likely? What do you guys think about my hypothetical situation? How do you feel the choices are weighed?
And most importantly of all, Which of the three do you think you will trust more?
Trust Luke to fix the situation and stay silent?
Trust Kenny by telling the group what Lilly did?
Trust Lilly by telling the Group what Kenny did?
Or trust Lilly and Kenny over Luke by telling them what Luke's group did, give Lilly and Kenny something to agree on (protecting Clem), but possibly lose at least part of your friendship with Luke and the other Cabin survivors?
Also, how do you guys like my epic anti cabin group speech? I wanted to make sure it was a reasonable option, hence it has to harness the injustice you felt at the hands of Rebecca and Carlos, and the absurdity of what they did to Clem with the Shed. If they had had their way, and Clem couldn't sneak out, she definitely would have died from blood loss, hypothermia, or an arm infection, or a combination of the three. Also, I love the idea of Kenny and Lilly having a chance of setting aside their differences (even if they still hate each other) to protect Clementine.
Comments
I once trusted Lilly until the... incident. Although it's been two years, so idk.
Kenny was and always will be my friend, and I trust him more than everyone.
Luke is a mixed basket. He seems OK so far, but you never know.
Because we don't know Luke very well yet i still have a mixed opinion of him but i do trust Luke over Lilly easily at the moment because he has been nice so far. But that said i thought Andy St. John seemed like a nice guy at first and we all know how that turned out so you can never know in The Walking Dead. But of all 3 of em i trust Kenny the most at the moment.
Thanks for your opinion, one of the first unsullied since the bridge-dweller arrived.
My opinion is almost a copy of your own, with the exception being that I am very trusting of Luke so far. I think it was mainly due to the way he completely lost it and got really upset when he thought Clementine was bit, and how concerned he was about her welfare.
Maybe he lost a sibling, or he is just a decent human being, I don't know, but I don't doubt the purity of his intentions. He seems a pretty noble reliable sort so far at least. Maybe that will change with episode 2, and we will see where his flaws have been hiding if he has them.
It appears our good friend The_Kenny_Among_Us has retired back under his bridge. Let us rejoice to his memory, and continue our thoughtful discussion of the topic of this thread.
But yeah, Choo Choo.
I am still pretty sure there is no option to 'trust' the mystery person, so Luke.
I was actually completely deceived by Andy at first as well. I still felt some empathy for him as Lee walked away, and Andy begged Lee to finish it.
But Lee had a point. One way or another for Andy, It Was Over.
What do you mean by that? Your viewpoint seems pretty interesting if we explore it.
Do you mean that perhaps Telltale will force us into a circumstance where we have to side against them or at least distrust them for whatever reason? I would disagree with that idea due to the fact that many people are attatched to and trust Kenny or Lilly, so it makes more sense to give the players (and Clem) that option.
I trust Kenny and Luke but if Lily comes back Kenny should saltlick her.
I trust the one with most stache.
I'm still really mad about Carley, but I think I would rather trust both of them over the Cabin group, if I could side with both of them at once.
I would have to question her about whether or not she regrets her actions though. That will be a major player in my decision making process,
I want to know most of all if Lilly cares about Clem. Because she drives off without Clem in the RV if you trust Lilly, and like Ben, Lilly was trying to help the group even if she fucked everything up in the end.
Yeah never thought I would see myself correlate Lilly to Ben either, but there you go. They did their best for the others but failed dramatically. Thats the saddest part about it all.
This is a tough question. The way I played season 1 was with almost complete loyalty to Kenny. It really did become harder and harder to do and I'd like to think that Clementine took note of that. On the other hand, I didn't back Lilly up at any point other than to throw sand on the Lilly/Kenny fires and investigate the stolen stuff.
I don't know... If it comes down to picking a side, it's going to be real tough between Luke and Kenny. Past loyalties vs. current. I guess it all depends where the episodes go from here. I doubt Luke is going to turn into a renegade, but you never know. If Kenny is still going off the deep end, it'll be easier.
Yeah you right but i cant forgive her for killing Carley
KennyBro4Life
****The mighty stache is watching your every move****
I think trusting Lilly and Kenny would be better, we barely know Luke anyway, and we also get both of them to trust you, i would like everyone from season 1 to trust me. I mean you know what happens if you are not loyal to Kenny right?
Trusting Kenny. Obvious.
Kenny
I don't know. In my playthrough I tried to be loyal to both Lilly (Gived her food at the market,being neutral in the leader conflict,tried to save Larry,trusted her when she was shearching for a thief,taked her back in the RV) and Kenny (Gived food to Duck at the market,gived food to him and Duck at the start of EP2,Sided with him about leaving the Motor Inn.,Shooted Duck and Fivel,he camed whit me to find Clementine). And I like Luke too. So probably I'll think about it in the right moment.
I'm thinking maybe the group stumbles into Lilly at some point. When that happens you'll be presented with a dilemma. You'll have the option of telling your group that Lilly killed your friend Carly and isn't to be trusted (negatively impacting Lilly) or you can keep quiet about that and keep Lilly on the group's good side.
Perhaps after your decision you will later have the option to have a little side chat with Lilly about how your earlier choice played out. If you revealed Lilly's treachery, she'll probably end up lashing out at you. If you kept quiet, Lilly might explain how she feels bad for snapping and killing Carly in cold blood and will ultimately end up thanking Clementine for keeping that event between them.
Maybe something similar like this happens with Kenny too
It's not about the threat to me, its entirely about the reward. I don't think I could go a season without Kenny's bro tier support.
Seriously though, everything he did just made sense to me in the moment, so I agreed with it, I didn't even realize that Kenny could get that antagonistic towards Lee until I jumped on these forums and saw how many people had bad experiences with Kenny.
Me neither, and I don't think I could ever forgive someone for doing something like that. I would still be willing to give her a chance though, to see if she has changed since then.
The way I usually deal with these situations is to forgive, sometimes, but never forget.
Then again that kind of trust and mercy could get someone killed if Lilly turns out to be off in the deep end of the insanity pool.
So what do you guys think about my dialogue? How could it be better? What did I do right?
I would trust Kenny. I always had the dude's back, and he had mine. He even said that Clem was like family to him after Kat and Duck died, in my game at least. However, if I could trust Lilly as well, I'd do that. I don't like her very much, but I'm willing to give her a chance to make up for what she did. One chance, though, no more. And if it's a choice between those three, Luke, Kenny, and Lilly, I'd just pick Kenny if it could only be one of them.
good thread man! i wish more people would come up with interesting scenarios like this to discuss
Thanks for the feedback, but I would like some judgement on how I wrote the dialogue, writing good dialogue is a thing I am always trying to improve upon.
The four choices I presented are actually Luke, Kenny, Lilly, or Kenny and Lilly EDIT: (Just realised that you knew that, I should have read you post more carefully, the rest of this post is still informative though)
(by calling out Luke's group on what they did, and showing Kenny and Lilly what Luke's group did, Clem gives Kenny and Lilly a common cause: looking after Clem, because they think that these people have been doing a terrible job, and they feel they have to take a more active role in looking after Clem if no-one else will).
(Mind you Kenny and Lilly still hate each other, they are just see the necessity of putting their differences aside to better take care of Clementine due to the "You locked me in a shed" dialogue option)
I think for me the decisions got harder, but supporting Kenny didn't. In almost every scenario for me, doing what Kenny said made the most sense.
Most of the time, Kenny knew how and when to make the hard choices, and when the hard choice wasn't necessary.
Honestly, Kenny and Lilly simply putting aside their differences just to look after Clem is FAR more than either on was able to accomplish in the first Season. Even if they still hate each other, it would be a big step in a positive direction for BOTH of them. I would certainly be happy with that, no matter their own feelings toward each other.
The reason I think it is possible this season is because neither of them can defer the responsibility to Lee anymore.
More or less, it's up to them now.
Those times when you spend half an hour writing and spellchecking a thread, still misspell role.
GUYS WHO YOU TRUST WILL PLAY AN IMPORTANT
IN SEASON 2!
Those times when you spend half an hour writing and spellchecking a thread, still misspell role.
GUYS WHO YOU TRUST WILL PLAY AN IMPORTANT
IN SEASON 2!
I never like Kenny that much, sorry to the fans of Kenny,
I am just speaking my mind.
Kenny never helps Lee when he is surround by zombies
(apart from one time in the first episode, all the other times he looks at the exit and back and don't make a move)
clearly he just cares about his family and no one else, he doesn't thank Lee and he help his family lots of times.
I don't like Lilly much ether what she dose to Doug/Carly geez...I only side with her because
I think there should be a leader to the group)
I did not know that, thank you.
I need to play the series again
Can I ask when do you side with Kenny?
is it the fight in the 2nd episode the one before meeting the st. john brothers?
Within this scenario, I'd trust Luke, or Kenny. If Kenny did show up and was just his old self, arguing with Lilly and such again, I'd be incredibly disappointed. Also, sorry, but I'm not a big fan of this scenario... It just seems to... there's no reasons for the whole paths thing besides making the decision, and it just doesn't seem to make sense to me for whatever reason.
On another thread, I had made a scenario where after Lilly joins the group, she'd try and convince the cabin members that Kenny was a horrible person, and try to get Clementine to support her. I had said that I thought Kenny probably wouldn't care, that he'd be tired of fighting. So rather than both of them fighting again, I think that Kenny would probably try to ignore Lilly. After that point, it would be a choice to defend Kenny, or support Lilly.
Though still, in this situation in dealing with a S2 Kenny very similar to S1 Kenny, then I'd still probably trust Kenny.
I think they're all okay. I guess I could trust all of them but I'm really curious how Lilly and Kenny have been coping for the past 16 months and how it's changed them (if it has). Based on past experiences I'd say Kenny because I had his back even when I didn't agree with him. I also am probably the only Kenny fan who actually likes Lilly. She was having a tough time although she pretty much put it on herself but if she is apart of Carver's group or whatever is happening with her; I'm sure she is more calm and less stressed out than she was in Season 1 when she was trying to take the "leader" role. As for Luke, well he seems like a good guy but we don't know him that well yet.
Did you know that depending on the players actions Kenny can be Lee's best friend? I never knew he could act antagonistic towards Lee until I found out some people hate him. But yeah, a lot of players (me included) sided entirely with Kenny and saw his view of things.
The game changes a hell of a lot depending on your choices.
Carley/Doug remember. Some 30% of people did save him.
The paths basically determine who gets blamed for a lot of death later on. Basically, it screws the player in several different ways depending on who they trusted, either the person you trusted loses their clout due to causing the deaths with their path, or with the call the cabin group out option, the entire Cabin group trusts you less, Luke (your remaining supporter in the group) gets blamed and loses his clout, making Clem fairly vulnerable in the group, more so than the other options (If you support Luke, the Cabin group gets along with the new groups, this lessons pressure on Clem.), with the only upside being that Kenny and Lilly both resolve to look out for Clem more, and might put aside their differences (at least for a moment) to do so.
TL:DR Who do you trust? Then the person you pick makes a mistake (with their path choice) and gets a few people killed, loses a lot of their authority in the groups.
Also the paths serves as an object for Kenny and Lilly, and Luke to argue about, without overtly and immediately bringing up their main problems with each other (which they would be trying to suppress for survivals sake). It's also a reasonable situation for the scene considering EP 2 might have a fair bit of travel in it.
TL:DR The paths screw whoever you trust over to make them less powerful in the group, because they get blamed for the deaths after they lead the group through that path.
Alternatively if you trust Lilly/Kenny both, Clem loses A LOT of rep within the Cabin group, potentially to the point where Kenny and Lilly take over caring for Clem from Luke until the groups get captured or whatever at the end of the episode 2 or the beginning of episode 3.
( as in, the groups still travel together for safety from Carver, but Clem moves into Kenny and Lilly's camp, and the Cabin group and K/L's groups are fairly wary of each other).
The thing I find the most interesting about this idea is how instead of radically changing relations towards the main character (Clem), it radically changes relations between other main characters that are key to the story, and also alters a particular characters power and influence over a few episodes (2/3).
You're not alone, man. Kenny's one of my favorite characters too, but I like Lily as well (if not as much).