I don't know if this was mentioned before, but i never really saw Clementine connect with Ben ever.... so yeah... maybe it was just the way i played. I hated Ben and his mistakes, so I let him fall to his death in the bell tower of Crawford. But again, my view is very biased because i love Kenny to death, so i felt that letting Ben die was sort of me avenging Kenny's family.
Makes no sense, Ben was a traitor who put everyone's lives at risk including two little kids that is a FACT so anyone who has any sort of sy… morempathetic feelings towards him is probably like him in real life & needs to grow a pair of balls. Kenny would have never said what he did if he didn't put his sons life in danger so therefore yes I would have exactly the same reaction regardless of who the character was.
Kenny could use a little bit of tact. He didnt have to say that and make it sound like he regretted trying to save Ben, not because he couldnt but because he wished he hadnt bothered. Thats what it sounded like to me. I dont think he should have said that in front of Clementine who liked and stood up for Ben.
Eh, to be honest I think you are making mountains out of mole hills. You seem to think that in that one moment Ben's outburst caused a wave … moreof forgiveness to flow over Kenny. Kenny has always been a character to hold a grudge and I don't think he forgave Ben as much as he understood and sympathised with him a little more. As for the Shitbird comment... I'm sure if he truly hated Ben he could have come up with something worse, it didn't even sound like it was full of contempt. Ultimately Kenny still held Ben accountable for his families death.
I don't know if this was mentioned before, but i never really saw Clementine connect with Ben ever.... so yeah... maybe it was just the way … morei played. I hated Ben and his mistakes, so I let him fall to his death in the bell tower of Crawford. But again, my view is very biased because i love Kenny to death, so i felt that letting Ben die was sort of me avenging Kenny's family.
You can forgive someone and still hold contempt. I mean yea Ben apologized but he still caused a lot of damage. It IS Kenny's right. Besides he didn't say it in the most asshole way possible like how you're trying to interpret. All I'm saying is that (in Kenny's case) Ben shouldn't be completely off the hook.
Have you been paying attention? I suppose most of their friendship development happened off screen, but it should still be acknowledged.
Ben was the one who gave Clementine the stickers for her walkie-talkie, for example.
And aside from protecting Ben time and time again, when the team is debating whether or not should Ben be let on the boat, Clementine asks for a permission to vote. If she is granted this, she will adamantly state that "Ben's nice. He's my friend. We don't leave friends behind". This implies that she forgave Ben for panicking and leaving her for the walkers near the beginning of Episode 4, understanding his phobia of being eaten.
Not sure if Clementine has any chances to batter the player for bashing Ben in Episode 4 if you don't take Clementine with you to Crawford and decide not to kill Ben. But if you don't take her with and decide to kill Ben, Clementine will be really upset.
The point of the friendship was to try to convince the player to sympathize with Ben by having the moral compass be on his side, I assume. It must have been too subtle, considering that people did not really give a crap about Doug's/Carley's and Clementine's efforts to protect Ben. Or perhaps they did, but decided to hold onto the relentless hate anyway.
I don't know if this was mentioned before, but i never really saw Clementine connect with Ben ever.... so yeah... maybe it was just the way … morei played. I hated Ben and his mistakes, so I let him fall to his death in the bell tower of Crawford. But again, my view is very biased because i love Kenny to death, so i felt that letting Ben die was sort of me avenging Kenny's family.
I kind of see what you mean. Though, it didn't ruin his return for me. I just felt it was a line that we could have done without. It would have take a LOT for Kenny's return to be ruined for me. He would have had to have bad-mouthed Lee or something. If the writers for S1E5 are different from S2E2, I can see why they didn't think that line was inappropriate.
It sounded quite sentimental and nostalgic to me...but then again Americans always seemed quite sensitive to stuff like this, so maybe he did mean it nastily.
You seem to forget that this isn't the same idealistic Clementine from Season 1. We can interpret that during the time skip after the intro to All That Remains that Clementine, now hardened and realistic, has a new way of thinking. What if she thought "Yea Ben was nice but he did sort of muck things up"?
Kenny could use a little bit of tact. He didnt have to say that and make it sound like he regretted trying to save Ben, not because he could… morent but because he wished he hadnt bothered. Thats what it sounded like to me. I dont think he should have said that in front of Clementine who liked and stood up for Ben.
Don't you think you're kind of taking this a bit too personal? I mean they're three more episodes left surely Ken will redeem himself (to you anyway) some how.
Have you been paying attention? I suppose most of their friendship development happened off screen, but it should still be acknowledged.
… moreBen was the one who gave Clementine the stickers for her walkie-talkie, for example.
And aside from protecting Ben time and time again, when the team is debating whether or not should Ben be let on the boat, Clementine asks for a permission to vote. If she is granted this, she will adamantly state that "Ben's nice. He's my friend. We don't leave friends behind". This implies that she forgave Ben for panicking and leaving her for the walkers near the beginning of Episode 4, understanding his phobia of being eaten.
Not sure if Clementine has any chances to batter the player for bashing Ben in Episode 4 if you don't take Clementine with you to Crawford and decide not to kill Ben. But if you don't take her with and decide to kill Ben, Clementine will be really upset.
The point of the friendship was t… [view original content]
What do you even mean? Like are you saying that there shouldn't be a connection between Kenny and Clem they didnt talk? Cause thats kinda silly. If you were best friends with Kenny as Lee, then I believe Clem should have a relationship with Kenny because Kenny had a great relationship with Lee as real trustworthy friends... maybe she doesnt realize this immediately, but she could when she got older in season 2, i mean it gives you the option to hug Kenny..
I think that Ben and Clem's friendship was not really even a friendship. Clem just had the innocent views of an 8 and 9 year old, so expecting her to make correct decisions on people is really silly. I mean she her innocent judgment is what lead all of episode 5 to happen with that crazy dude, she didnt have the decision making skills of an adult to realize that the guy was insane and did t really want to help her find her parents, so after that being said are you really gonna try and tell me that Clem's view on Ben should be taken seriously? She didnt understand the shit Ben pulled, and with the whole "she forgave him from running away" is complete shit, as a child again she was naturally forgiving because shes just a little girl. You giving Clem this power to have higher judgment is stupid. Sorry but im not gonna gold back on killing someone who is a complete wreck and danger to the group because an innocent little girl didnt want me to. As far as im concerned, Clem now understands why Lee let Ben die, now that she's older and let go of her innocent mentality
Have you been paying attention? I suppose most of their friendship development happened off screen, but it should still be acknowledged.
… moreBen was the one who gave Clementine the stickers for her walkie-talkie, for example.
And aside from protecting Ben time and time again, when the team is debating whether or not should Ben be let on the boat, Clementine asks for a permission to vote. If she is granted this, she will adamantly state that "Ben's nice. He's my friend. We don't leave friends behind". This implies that she forgave Ben for panicking and leaving her for the walkers near the beginning of Episode 4, understanding his phobia of being eaten.
Not sure if Clementine has any chances to batter the player for bashing Ben in Episode 4 if you don't take Clementine with you to Crawford and decide not to kill Ben. But if you don't take her with and decide to kill Ben, Clementine will be really upset.
The point of the friendship was t… [view original content]
Even though they didn't show them clementine did call ben her friend
Remember she also led him a way when he first arrived so he doesn't have to get involve
What do you even mean? Like are you saying that there shouldn't be a connection between Kenny and Clem they didnt talk? Cause thats kinda si… morelly. If you were best friends with Kenny as Lee, then I believe Clem should have a relationship with Kenny because Kenny had a great relationship with Lee as real trustworthy friends... maybe she doesnt realize this immediately, but she could when she got older in season 2, i mean it gives you the option to hug Kenny..
It sounded quite sentimental and nostalgic to me...but then again Americans always seemed quite sensitive to stuff like this, so maybe he did mean it nastily.
^Agreed. However, I think Ben does consider Clem as his friend but Reusou had to state that they're best friends. I mean yea I had friends who gave me stickers when I was kid but that never mean they were my best friends.
I think that Ben and Clem's friendship was not really even a friendship. Clem just had the innocent views of an 8 and 9 year old, so expecti… moreng her to make correct decisions on people is really silly. I mean she her innocent judgment is what lead all of episode 5 to happen with that crazy dude, she didnt have the decision making skills of an adult to realize that the guy was insane and did t really want to help her find her parents, so after that being said are you really gonna try and tell me that Clem's view on Ben should be taken seriously? She didnt understand the shit Ben pulled, and with the whole "she forgave him from running away" is complete shit, as a child again she was naturally forgiving because shes just a little girl. You giving Clem this power to have higher judgment is stupid. Sorry but im not gonna gold back on killing someone who is a complete wreck and danger to the group because an innocent little girl didnt want me to. As… [view original content]
People should live in the UK a while. We jokingly talk about each other in that manner sometimes. I also didn't get any hint of malice reall… morey in his tone. Well maybe there was a slight bit, but he was more joking. I haven't played since release though, so just going off memory, and only played the episode once.
What are you talking about
I'm saying don't generalize because it's ends up being disrespectful to different people
And how is that a hypocrisy when I haven't done it at all
I agree with what you're saying. America is a country of 350 million people. We're all individuals, not clones with identical personality traits. Not all of us are sensitive (though of course some are). I didn't see the first page or whatever, but two wrongs don't make a right. Personally, I don't think people's issue with the line was due to sensitivity, but more because it could be perceived as a contradiction to Kenny's reconciliation with/forgiveness of Ben. Kenny can be crass sometimes and just say things before thinking. He says as much when he assumes Lee can pick locks because he's "urban". lol. "I don't know man, I'm from Florida. Stupid s*** just comes out of my mouth sometimes." (another generalization about Floridians if we're nit-picking, lol). Either it was intentional (the writers wanted Kenny to continue to "tell it like it is", because there is truth to what he said, Ben WAS a bit of a s***bird) or it was unintentional (the writers weren't considering Kenny and Ben's reconciliation when writing that particular line). Either way, I understand why someone would feel the line was kind of contradictory to the sacrifice we saw Kenny make in S1E5. But, I can also understand why someone wouldn't take any issue with it too. By the way, I'm American and the line doesn't really bother me that much. I'm just far too happy to have Kenny back.
What are you talking about
I'm saying don't generalize because it's ends up being disrespectful to different people
And how is that a hypocrisy when I haven't done it at all
I agree with what you're saying. America is a country of 350 million people. We're all individuals, not clones with identical personality tr… moreaits. Not all of us are sensitive (though of course some are). I didn't see the first page or whatever, but two wrongs don't make a right. Personally, I don't think people's issue with the line was due to sensitivity, but more because it could be perceived as a contradiction to Kenny's reconciliation with/forgiveness of Ben. Kenny can be crass sometimes and just say things before thinking. He says as much when he assumes Lee can pick locks because he's "urban". lol. "I don't know man, I'm from Florida. Stupid s*** just comes out of my mouth sometimes." (another generalization about Floridians if we're nit-picking, lol). Either it was intentional (the writers wanted Kenny to continue to "tell it like it is", because there is truth to what he said, Ben WAS a bit of a s***bird) or it was unintentional (the w… [view original content]
I don't understand why Kenny said that in my playthrough. Lee let Ben die in Crawford, so Kenny saves Christa - he never did anything with Ben as Ben was already walker chow. So why does Kenny say that?
I don't understand why Kenny said that in my playthrough. Lee let Ben die in Crawford, so Kenny saves Christa - he never did anything with Ben as Ben was already walker chow. So why does Kenny say that?
I remember in Around Ever Corner, Ben was about to do something helpful with getting inside a house and Clementine stole his thunder by opening it herself. She got her revenge already.
I man who would sacrifice his life for someone he hated would that not make you trust him more a true hero
wish telltale stayed true to h… moreis character like this like you said
Kenny: Funny story Clem remember ben the time he left you to die, murdered my family and group with his decisions. Gave our food/supplies to bandits etc.
Clem: Yeah what intelligent heroic guy
Kenny: hahaha yeah now lets drink our juice boxes then i'll shave my beard
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
@Reusou
I don't know. I mean, Ben was a total fuck up. Only a complete idiot would disagree to that. Made a deal with the bandits and told NOBODY in the group. Got Duck bit, Carley murdered in cold-blood by Lilly A.K.A Ms. BITCH OR Doug saving Ben's life of the cost of his own by Lilly A.K.A Ms. BITCH, and Katjaa committing suicide because of Duck dying from the walker bite that Ben caused. He leaves Clementine high and dry in the street full of walkers. Yep, he just dashes off and leaves her. That REALLY pissed me off right there. He also fucking removes the hatchet that was purposely placed in the inside handles of the doors endangering the group. That was just.........idiotic. I can't imagine myself, but it's normal for Kenny to hold some resentment towards Ben for what he's done. Of course he's not going to just be like, "Oh Ben, you're fine. You was just trying to help us out, no prob". The man lost his family in an extremely sad way. Duck was bit by a walker and just dying right in front of him and he says that his wife just completely "left him", which was indeed sad when he said it that way because she DID commit suicide and she actually DID just leave him. Although it wasn't on purpose, Ben still is pretty much the reason for that. I mean, yeah, he really wanted to be helpful, I know that, but he went A-wall on Clem and did some stupid shit that got the group in danger and people killed.
But no, I didn't let him drop to his death in my game. I'm not that kind of person. I felt that he would somehow redeem himself for all of the shit that he did. Well, at least he tried. And don't be so butthurt, because if you saved been in Crawford, Kenny makes sure that Ben wouldn't feel any pain by his absolute worst nightmare. Kenny was the one with the gun and just one bullet left. He could have kept it and just let Ben feel the walkers bite huge chunks off of his body. But Kenny was merciful toward Ben. So since Kenny did that, I'll just take it that "Shitbird" was just a nickname and not a very bad insult. He didn't actually say it with rage, anger, or hatred. You're really taking that line WAY too far though, that's for sure.
To be fair, I still think Ben deserved that insult.
He indirectly killed his family, made a deal with bandits behind everyone's back (whic… moreh ok, I can forgive that)
but then he LIES to us and then causing Carley who stood up for Ben to die? Hahaha, no.
I understand what Ben was trying to do and that I don't think he deserved his fate but if he isn't a shitbird then hell, I don't know who is.
the line didn't bother me but I agree with your point. Kenny's "death"/sacrifice was probably one of the most emotional scenes for me, more than clem and lee's death
Comments
I don't know if this was mentioned before, but i never really saw Clementine connect with Ben ever.... so yeah... maybe it was just the way i played. I hated Ben and his mistakes, so I let him fall to his death in the bell tower of Crawford. But again, my view is very biased because i love Kenny to death, so i felt that letting Ben die was sort of me avenging Kenny's family.
He will more likely be crying about Saritas death...i have a bad feeling that she ain't gonna make it! (probaply killed by Carver)
And once again, we have someone who justifies everything Kenny does but wont cut any slack for anyone else.
Kenny could use a little bit of tact. He didnt have to say that and make it sound like he regretted trying to save Ben, not because he couldnt but because he wished he hadnt bothered. Thats what it sounded like to me. I dont think he should have said that in front of Clementine who liked and stood up for Ben.
Hey I take offense to that! Anyways I know at least Americans do it too.
When did Clem ever have a conversation with Kenny in season 1?? Lol
Agreed. Reusou seems to be taking this a bit too personal. It's not like he said it with disgust.
You can forgive someone and still hold contempt. I mean yea Ben apologized but he still caused a lot of damage. It IS Kenny's right. Besides he didn't say it in the most asshole way possible like how you're trying to interpret. All I'm saying is that (in Kenny's case) Ben shouldn't be completely off the hook.
Have you been paying attention? I suppose most of their friendship development happened off screen, but it should still be acknowledged.
Ben was the one who gave Clementine the stickers for her walkie-talkie, for example.
And aside from protecting Ben time and time again, when the team is debating whether or not should Ben be let on the boat, Clementine asks for a permission to vote. If she is granted this, she will adamantly state that "Ben's nice. He's my friend. We don't leave friends behind". This implies that she forgave Ben for panicking and leaving her for the walkers near the beginning of Episode 4, understanding his phobia of being eaten.
Not sure if Clementine has any chances to batter the player for bashing Ben in Episode 4 if you don't take Clementine with you to Crawford and decide not to kill Ben. But if you don't take her with and decide to kill Ben, Clementine will be really upset.
The point of the friendship was to try to convince the player to sympathize with Ben by having the moral compass be on his side, I assume. It must have been too subtle, considering that people did not really give a crap about Doug's/Carley's and Clementine's efforts to protect Ben. Or perhaps they did, but decided to hold onto the relentless hate anyway.
I kind of see what you mean. Though, it didn't ruin his return for me. I just felt it was a line that we could have done without. It would have take a LOT for Kenny's return to be ruined for me. He would have had to have bad-mouthed Lee or something. If the writers for S1E5 are different from S2E2, I can see why they didn't think that line was inappropriate.
It sounded quite sentimental and nostalgic to me...but then again Americans always seemed quite sensitive to stuff like this, so maybe he did mean it nastily.
You seem to forget that this isn't the same idealistic Clementine from Season 1. We can interpret that during the time skip after the intro to All That Remains that Clementine, now hardened and realistic, has a new way of thinking. What if she thought "Yea Ben was nice but he did sort of muck things up"?
Don't you think you're kind of taking this a bit too personal? I mean they're three more episodes left surely Ken will redeem himself (to you anyway) some how.
What do you even mean? Like are you saying that there shouldn't be a connection between Kenny and Clem they didnt talk? Cause thats kinda silly. If you were best friends with Kenny as Lee, then I believe Clem should have a relationship with Kenny because Kenny had a great relationship with Lee as real trustworthy friends... maybe she doesnt realize this immediately, but she could when she got older in season 2, i mean it gives you the option to hug Kenny..
I think that Ben and Clem's friendship was not really even a friendship. Clem just had the innocent views of an 8 and 9 year old, so expecting her to make correct decisions on people is really silly. I mean she her innocent judgment is what lead all of episode 5 to happen with that crazy dude, she didnt have the decision making skills of an adult to realize that the guy was insane and did t really want to help her find her parents, so after that being said are you really gonna try and tell me that Clem's view on Ben should be taken seriously? She didnt understand the shit Ben pulled, and with the whole "she forgave him from running away" is complete shit, as a child again she was naturally forgiving because shes just a little girl. You giving Clem this power to have higher judgment is stupid. Sorry but im not gonna gold back on killing someone who is a complete wreck and danger to the group because an innocent little girl didnt want me to. As far as im concerned, Clem now understands why Lee let Ben die, now that she's older and let go of her innocent mentality
Even though they didn't show them clementine did call ben her friend
Remember she also led him a way when he first arrived so he doesn't have to get involve
Please don't generalize
^Agreed. However, I think Ben does consider Clem as his friend but Reusou had to state that they're best friends. I mean yea I had friends who gave me stickers when I was kid but that never mean they were my best friends.
Uh, no we don't.
Why not? Check the first page. You can't do something that we can't - it's hypocrisy.
What are you talking about
I'm saying don't generalize because it's ends up being disrespectful to different people
And how is that a hypocrisy when I haven't done it at all
I agree with what you're saying. America is a country of 350 million people. We're all individuals, not clones with identical personality traits. Not all of us are sensitive (though of course some are). I didn't see the first page or whatever, but two wrongs don't make a right. Personally, I don't think people's issue with the line was due to sensitivity, but more because it could be perceived as a contradiction to Kenny's reconciliation with/forgiveness of Ben. Kenny can be crass sometimes and just say things before thinking. He says as much when he assumes Lee can pick locks because he's "urban". lol. "I don't know man, I'm from Florida. Stupid s*** just comes out of my mouth sometimes." (another generalization about Floridians if we're nit-picking, lol). Either it was intentional (the writers wanted Kenny to continue to "tell it like it is", because there is truth to what he said, Ben WAS a bit of a s***bird) or it was unintentional (the writers weren't considering Kenny and Ben's reconciliation when writing that particular line). Either way, I understand why someone would feel the line was kind of contradictory to the sacrifice we saw Kenny make in S1E5. But, I can also understand why someone wouldn't take any issue with it too. By the way, I'm American and the line doesn't really bother me that much. I'm just far too happy to have Kenny back.
Or a third glaringly obvious possibility – Kenny meant it affectionately.
srsly he WAS a shitbird
I don't understand why Kenny said that in my playthrough. Lee let Ben die in Crawford, so Kenny saves Christa - he never did anything with Ben as Ben was already walker chow. So why does Kenny say that?
Because the dev team screwed up
. It's Telltale, you should expect stuff like this from them by now lol 
.
What are you talking about? Between Season 1 and 2, it's been at least 19 months in-game.
I remember in Around Ever Corner, Ben was about to do something helpful with getting inside a house and Clementine stole his thunder by opening it herself. She got her revenge already.
Season 1 ends at day 105, Season 2 is currently 992 days in. 887 days since Season 1. That's close to 3 years..
@Reusou
I don't know. I mean, Ben was a total fuck up. Only a complete idiot would disagree to that. Made a deal with the bandits and told NOBODY in the group. Got Duck bit, Carley murdered in cold-blood by Lilly A.K.A Ms. BITCH OR Doug saving Ben's life of the cost of his own by Lilly A.K.A Ms. BITCH, and Katjaa committing suicide because of Duck dying from the walker bite that Ben caused. He leaves Clementine high and dry in the street full of walkers. Yep, he just dashes off and leaves her. That REALLY pissed me off right there. He also fucking removes the hatchet that was purposely placed in the inside handles of the doors endangering the group. That was just.........idiotic. I can't imagine myself, but it's normal for Kenny to hold some resentment towards Ben for what he's done. Of course he's not going to just be like, "Oh Ben, you're fine. You was just trying to help us out, no prob". The man lost his family in an extremely sad way. Duck was bit by a walker and just dying right in front of him and he says that his wife just completely "left him", which was indeed sad when he said it that way because she DID commit suicide and she actually DID just leave him. Although it wasn't on purpose, Ben still is pretty much the reason for that. I mean, yeah, he really wanted to be helpful, I know that, but he went A-wall on Clem and did some stupid shit that got the group in danger and people killed.
But no, I didn't let him drop to his death in my game. I'm not that kind of person. I felt that he would somehow redeem himself for all of the shit that he did. Well, at least he tried. And don't be so butthurt, because if you saved been in Crawford, Kenny makes sure that Ben wouldn't feel any pain by his absolute worst nightmare. Kenny was the one with the gun and just one bullet left. He could have kept it and just let Ben feel the walkers bite huge chunks off of his body. But Kenny was merciful toward Ben. So since Kenny did that, I'll just take it that "Shitbird" was just a nickname and not a very bad insult. He didn't actually say it with rage, anger, or hatred. You're really taking that line WAY too far though, that's for sure.
"I had to put that poor fucking kid out of his misery." ?