Season 3: The Same Old?
We've been to the street, the office, Bosco's and Sybil's for two seasons now, so how do you think these locations should be changed for the third season? Should Bosco's and Sybil's be changed completely, or would you be happy with minor changes? Would more items added to the office satisfy your need for change?
I personally think that all the locations I've suggested need a big revamp. If you think about it, when buying a sequel to a non-episodic retail game, you never expect to visit places you did in the first game. Take Monkey Island for example - you didn't visit the same place again in each game (except places such as the SCUMM Bar, but they had been fully redesigned to fit the graphical requirements of the game).
I'd probably be okay with the office changing to the same level as it did from season one to season two, because you hardly ever need to go in there, but for places that Sam & Max are often visiting I'd be pretty let-down if there wasn't something majorly different about them.
What about you?
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That's not necessarily true. The Ace Attorney games all had the office/detention center/police department that you always went to every single game. Banjo-Tooie started in the same place as Banjo-Kazooie. If I recall correctly, Pikmin 2 had a couple of the same places as Pikmin 1, but redesigned to reflect changes over time to the terrain. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.
True, but they got criticised for it. The other games you listed are much bigger in scale though, and have more locations for you to visit and don't have you constantly going back there.
With the episodic model, I feel some things *have* to remain the same during a season, to give it a cohesive sense of being a full entity after the fat lady's encore. Much in the same way that a television show normally has those settings which carry over throughout the seasons and series, it's necessary in the same way for some things to remain the same throughout an episodic series. How can we start off an episode without a scramble for the phone?
Now, I did think that the robot's radical reconstruction of the main town area to streamline it for gameplay purposes was no less than brilliant. I honestly didn't realize what they had done for awhile. But the thing that keeps the games from feeling same-ish, to me, would be new situations, new observational quips for clicking on the same object, and the areas outside our core starting place.
I actually don't like this idea...I like for a series to remain consistent when it comes to general artistic style. I wouldn't want a "realistic, first-person Okami" any more than I want a new 2D Sam and Max. Yes, Hit the Road used 2D and cartoony graphics, but a new 2D Sam and max would hardly look VGA, and the series has already moved past that point. To go back seems....it doesn't feel like it really fits.
And also, episodic is more or less Telltale's bread and butter, and...they do it right. I enjoy getting a new episode each month for a $35 subscription fee, rather than paying $50-60 for a big game that might last me a week or two. My interest and intrigue is spread out over half a year or so, and I love it. I'd really rather not see Telltale abandon the model that is as close to my definition of perfect as I think the universe will allow.
No.
And a couple of million dollars and a two year development schedule.
A big budget.. not necessarily.
I never said that adventure gaming has gone "beyond" 2D. But it would seem awkward, at least, for the current series to get totally revamped after two seasons, the equivalent of two games in in the world of big retail releases.
Also, we don't really have many 3D adventures...it seems to me that making adventure games work in 3D is something that makes the genre as a whole not feel...obsolete in video gaming today.
I'm right there with you.
I love the detail of the neighbourhood but it is just very unpleasing, that there are only the two extremes of where they doing something regarding the neighbourhood or they are going to hell / too moon or to santa (lets say very very far )... And somehow in the end everything is connected to the neighbourhood. They connect it to story quite well but in the end ... it just feels like yeaah right
But as discussed before maybe what we want is not what episodic content is able to offer. The episodic model is quite dissapointing contentwise sofar but telltale did a good job with story always kept me interested but for me it didnt justify re"abuse" of content.
So in the end:
Lucky we have Sam and Max
Episodic Content ... did not work for me with Sam and Max.
It would be nice to see the content pushed ... giving story the room it needs
Cheers
Edit:
To answer the question:
I would not like to see anyone else than Sam & Max / maybe Bosco / Flint again
Locations: Office /middle of the Street
The locations should be a lot bigger and funnier, like the "burning tire mountain", the "bungee from president's nose dino park", the "mistery vortex" and of course, the "world's largest ball of twine"!!! XD I would like to see THAT in 3d.
by the way, one of the biggest problems I had with seasons 1-2 was that there was not enough motion in the screens. I dunno why, but it felt a little lonely... well untill the zombie factory, THIS one had tons of background movement and was awesome!
so:
-more true-to-franchize locations
-more background motion to give a feeling of life to the scene
-no more Sybil >,> please... actually, I also don't wanna see any old character except Bosco, Flint, and of course, Jurgen. XD
-also, I know it's hard, but we would all love a new design for old locations like the office and the street, to give it a fresh feeling. I would also like to see the hallway outside of the office, maybe even Flint's office? and the legendary "upstairs". quote: -and as always, longer, more riddles, more items in inventory.
Thanks as always!!! when I grow up I wanna be as awesome as TellTaleTeam!!!
P.S. did I mention the music was perfect in any sense of way? go JEJ!!!
...did somebody say BIRTHDAY?!
More "rooms" to story locations. For example: there could be a weapons factory you have to operate to get a weapon to battle the villian. So, inside the factory, you have get into a supply room to get the parts you need then you have to break into the supervisor's office to get the keys to the machinery then you have to load the machinery on the factory floor before going into the control room to run the machinery.
That's sort of the basic idea, 4 rooms for a couple of puzzles, and if it's extended to the villian battles it could make them a little more complex and interesting.
P.S.
Give us a lot more things to shoot!
"New" games should have a constant sense of wonder and discovery (and yes, this can be achieved with old content if done right... read below).
There should be a sense of actual excitement when you see a location pop up or open again, you should be curious about what is new and different about it this time before you even enter... Not have the feeling of, "Oh no, Sybil's again?"
Reusing locations and characters is well and good (it makes games longer, think about it!). But if you reuse them, you have to more-or-less change everything about them to make them interesting again...
For locations, don't just change a few scene items and add to running gags, you need to also change things like lighting, atmosphere, and camera angles... So that you literally see everything in a whole new way each episode, you need to change so many things that the player thinks "Wow, this used to be sybils?"
For characters, you also need to change something about them each time you see them, (epically if they are going to be a main part of an episode). If not, then they should only be in the game for a brief cameo, and leave as soon as they stop being funny (characters also don't have to be in every single episode either). When you see a reoccurring cast member, the feeling should be either, "Wow, long time no see, i almost forgot about him. or "Wow, I thought he looked ____ in the last episode! (add an appropriate running appearance gag to the blank)
I also think that by season 3, they have enough in the pool that they can rotate things, (I.E. like what they did with Sybil's in season 2, it was only in 2 episodes).
But, there also needs to be less of a balance between new and old things in each episode... Currently, there is one new thing for every old thing we see. This makes players feel like they are digging through old crap to get to the new stuff, and this feels like a chore to them... In season 3, for every old thing we see, there needs to be at least 2 other new things in the episode, that way the old content is a lot less daunting (unless of course you can make something feel totally new again, which is almost as hard as making something from scratch).
Personally, I like seeing "some" old things again in episodic games... To see how the world changes from episode to episode, but it needs to be BIG changes... Things expanded, opened, or gloriously destroyed. Not just, "oh, they got a new plant, and some other junk"... I need to be thinking, "Wow, how the hell did that happen?"
this is not a TV show, where BIG changes only happen once every 5 years... with only 5 episodes a year, EVERY episode needs to have BIG changes in it, treat every episode like a season in itself, and just completely blow us out of the water with the premieres and finales
In short, If the audience does not say, "wow" or bust out in laughter upon seeing something, its best to be left on the cutting room floor for that episode.
yes, what they did with Bosco's store in 204-205 was just amazing!
the intro of 204 was just awesome. I really was into it!
Yeah i have to agreed we you, Sam & max act alittle yonger and not so grown up voilent like in HTR which i miss, i ofc hope as always Season 3 will evolve even more, im stilling missing more interplay between Sam & Max like in HTR, and not for max to just be someone you are draggin around with a few random comments and hits.
and in threeie it starts in the same place.
And your right about pikmin one and 2 as well.
Sybil's office technicly changes a lot.
Considering she gets a new job every game.
I mean, new content is always necessary, but I think calling for the removal of almost all the recurring characters and locations is a bit extreme. I like the recurring characters and locations.
That's not Sam and Max's original roots. The comics are. The episodic games don't have to be true to Hit the Road because, unless I'm totally mistaken, they're not based on Hit the Road. They're based on the comics, just like Hit the Road is. The locations in the comics are pretty full of action so that doesn't undermine your point at all, but it just irritates me when people act like Hit the Road came first.
This post might make it look like I hate Hit the Road, but I don't. It's a fun game with excellent writing, and I enjoyed it. I just think it has its flaws just like any other game.
Apart from that, Telltale obviously needs to shake things up a bit. Reusing the old locations (even modified versions) and game mechanics again would lead to quite a backlash from reviewers and many fans, I'm sure. Episodic gaming is a great opportunity to try aut something new anyway, especially when it comes to PC Adventures Games, which seem to be stuck in an evolutionary dead end since... what, 15 years? Dont' get me wrong, I like the classic Point and Click games, but fresh ideas are needed to get the genre back into the spotlight outside of Germany again.
By the way, Eurogamer's review of Season 2 makes some excellent points relevant to the discussion.
Maimtron could end up being more of a residence than a resident. lol.
I'd be satisfied with getting to visit the other side of the street, further up or down the street, or maybe some places from the old 2D game for a good joke, like "Heu, remember when I put so-&-so here 20 years ago? Let's see if it's still here."
An idea I'm sure no one witll disagree with is just making absolutely everything interactive instead of static, & things that are static at least get commentary when clicked on. It always bugged me that Bosco's store had static isles.
No one does cell for 2D games, it's all Flash now. Do you have any Idea how long it takes to make 5 min. of animation in cell?
Anyway, that would be okey for a "casual game" by a different company, like BigFish & their subsidary little programmers. It could be a Serendipity game (hidden object), a classic side scroller (arcade) or a Sprite RPG (mimics the look & feel of classic Zelda, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, & Ultima games).
An RPG would be awesome: Sam & Max travel a wide map on foot (Desoto broke down, guys have to backtrack on foot to collect parts they can't afford to replace or that nobody makes anymore), beat the ever-loving crap out of NPCs, loot bodies & houses, sell loot, upgrade/enchant/trade weapons, do mind-numbing side quests, & more beating & looting.
Totally Agreed with you, new sam and max is good, but it needs to change for the better to be more like "Hit the road" and those locations
I've kind of covered the reasons why in other posts, so I won't cover them here.