Adventure Games: 3D vs. 2D
I'm not sure if it's kosher to make my first post here a new topic, but this thread idea pertains well to an adventure gaming board.
As an adventure-gamer, do you prefer sprite-based games (Day of the Tentacle, Kings Quest, etc.) or 3D-modeled games (Grim Fandango, Monkey Island 4)?
I personally prefer the scheme of a good old 2D adventure game, because 3D adventure games seem harder to control, especially since they don't use the mouse. I guess I wouldn't complain if I could use the mouse when I control my characters' movements, though.
As an adventure-gamer, do you prefer sprite-based games (Day of the Tentacle, Kings Quest, etc.) or 3D-modeled games (Grim Fandango, Monkey Island 4)?
I personally prefer the scheme of a good old 2D adventure game, because 3D adventure games seem harder to control, especially since they don't use the mouse. I guess I wouldn't complain if I could use the mouse when I control my characters' movements, though.
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2-D Sofar=6
3-D Sofar=2
On the Fence=3
If a 3D adventure game comes along that is done the right way, I might come to terms with the use of 3D. But that requires that the controls still be 2D (ie mouse driven interface á la Sam & Max) and the entire game world be fully 3D (ie no pre-rendered backgrounds) and have dynamic (possibly user-controllable) camera movement (with well-defined "scenes") and other stuff that will add to the feeling of playing a really great interactive movie.
But of course, the story is the most important in an adventure, so don't get sidetracked.
in fact, i have played dozens of times lucas 2D adventures (well, except loom), but just thinking about the awkward controls makes me not wanting to replay the half-3D ones.
Fake-3D games like Grim Fandango or MI4 sure aren't as nice to control, but in the meantime there have been some more games that use pre-rendered backgrounds and 3D-characters put in them: Syberia, Longest Journey, etc. - Those games are much better to control than the older ones...
I also played Uru - Ages Beyond Myst, which is a DX9-full-3D adventure/puzzle-game (the first one I've tried) and to my surprise it was extremely nice to handle.
Why?
1) it has a more home-y feeling (being an oldskool adventurer)
2) 2d graphics can be nowadays used to the max without any problems. 3d depends too much on the hardware (and software/library) to show it's quality.
I'd love to see another SCUMM game (maybe SCUMM version 9 perhaps?)
...but then again, I guess we're all saying that, because most (awesome) adventures we've played were 2d ...for a simple reason that back then 3d was waaaay chunkier then nowadays. and I'm sure if you'd ask an adventurer in the 80's the same question about text or graphic, he'd say "text!"
Ah yeah, those were the days!
Let's all head to Flood Control Dam #3...
I do not thing, that there is a (serious) 3D versus 2D discussion!
It is not the right question.
In the future there will be only 3D games, but will there be still adventures? Will there be story-telling games? We all know the answer. On the other hand, you have to ask:
Is there already an 3D-game-engine build for adventuregames, that is compareble with 2D adventures?
Even Grims engine was not, but the story was so awesome, I (you) never mind.
So maybe the developers just have to make a better 3d-engine, haven't they?
I think no. Take a look to "Psychonauts" and you will see the answer. You have to mix 3d with 2d, good music with good story.
Just make a better job than the rest.
Do the right stuff , so there won't be missed left over stuff.
I think, we should discuss seriously about entertainment rather than stupid 3d.vs.2d nonsense.
B-)
I agree that there are several adventures that did a very nice job using 3d perspectives: The longest journey, Syberia I & II, The moment of silence. Those are not comic-adventures though.
Full ack to the steering problems with 3d too, I like point and click...
That's a rather wild generalisation - I disagree.
Look at all the emerging Flash/Java-2D games on the web: http://www.albartus.com/motas/ or http://www.pinheadgames.com etc...
2D is not dead, it's just shifted to other places/means than being sold on diskettes/CDs by major companies.
2D is an independent thing nowadays.
We discuss a lot of things in here. And as you might see, most people (in this thread) prefer 2D games to 3D.
What is it you want to discuss about 'entertainment'?
Speaking of the wolf...
There's a film (and software) studio called the General Coffee Company which made a text based "interactive fiction"/game (open source) system - Hugo
and here's a linkie to their (new) game Future Boy
...yes! text-based (with optional graphics) adventure game ...I couldn't believe it when I saw it! Works on lots of platforms (even PalmOS and some Nokia mobile phones O_o) thanks to the open nature of the engine.
Strange thing, that Hugo-engine. I never heard of any game written in ANSI C before...
well, they *are* a film crew in it's origins
...although - the galaga-like Tom Bombem written in assembler is still my favourite when it comes to that
3d is good also
Syberia 1&2 look great,still gota play them
Mi4 was horible in 3d.ugly models.
moment of silence looks also great,played the demo
has lots of nice cut scene's
2-D So far=7
3-D So far=2
On the Fence=4
P.s.
Captain Le chimp, your're a yaking fiend.
what do you mean
with youre a yaking fiend
thats why i am sir yakalot
:-/
thats why i am sir yakalot
:-/
That said, I believe that there are 3D titles that would have worked better 3D and vise versa. "The Longest Journey" may have benefited artistically in a full 2D production since the modeling work didn't live up to the pre-rendered backgrounds. Not to mention that April changes appearance between the box art, the different LAVs, and the actual playable character. However, I am excited to see the production of Dreamfall and confident that Ragnar T�rnquist will still keep his quality storytelling skills and have a presentation that will match his rich narratives.
But is there room for 2D? I think so. I'm sorta banking on it with my own project Antidote. It's a graphic adventure much like Myst, but is heavily dependent on live-action video and existing sets (only one scene will be CGI'd). As long as the interface is solid and with a narrative that engages the user, that's all I need to care about. If a player can't get beyond a 3D rendered space, then there is no hope for me to tell the story to them. They are only looking for pencil drawings.
2D comics have a future, 2D cartoons have, 2D paintings have, hell, even my computer-screen is only 2D!
Certainly for 'realism', 3D delivers more... but I want toonish games...
ps: beware of that vampira after you
Vampira?
Where?
Next to the three-headed monkey?
A vampire!
I hope you're not implying I'm some kinda gothic-dude, or something...
EDIT: Oooh, you're talking about what's cooking at Bad Brains...
2D games, on the other hand, have more beutifull backgrounds and usually are better done on the gameplay point of view. 3D's sometimes forget about the gameplay, when giving the gamer a powerfull engine. As I said - a tough question. I prefer both.
3D can be done right. I personally didn't mind the engine used in Grim or EMI (though those damned elevators were a nuisance), but I think some people are under the mistaken impression that 3D automatically means pre-rendered backgrounds and "drive the character" controls. That simply isn't true. A game can successfully adapt to the times and simultaneously remain true to the "basics" of the old adventure games (not that I'm thinking of any title in particular which featured a point 'n click, realtime 3d engine).
But it's time for us to accept that companies are simply not going to produce 2d, point 'n click games anymore, and our insistence for them will not help the future of the genre. How many companies like Autumn Moon do you think are out there, who are willing to make old-style games at the expense of any reasonable income? Don't get me wrong; I love what they're doing, but treats like A Vampyre Story can't be expected to come along very often. Instead, we should be looking to companies like Double Fine and Telltale, who are exploring new ways to evolve story-driven games and hope that they become successful so that other companies may follow the example.
As i mentioned before:
This dicussion 3d vs. 2d "style" is useless. There is no 3d AND no 2d style.
A good game allways depend on good artistic performance and good programing. Now a days a game will use 3d technics, even, if it looks like 2d.
What makes "3d" so emotionless, is, that the most artists are not able to handle the stuff. Technic of progrming may have developed so far, but does artistic technic has been developed the same way? I do not think so. Most artists should remember the "good old times", because they should remember the values, emotions. Real 3d will take a longer time till it is able to carry all that thoughts that where carry by pixeled 2d images.
Now a days most "3d-artist" try to be realistic. I do not think that this is an art-style. This shows, that they, the 3d artist, have no style at all, except Leonardo ...
Not the mailman, my friend. The mailman didnt say anything. he didnt have a chance to...
oh yea, therapys workin' out
Take Doom III . I've seen the graphics. They're phenomenal. But what story is there? Oh, you walk around blowing up demons. The word "repetitious" doesn't begin to describe that.
Similarly, take "Sam and Max", which is one of the funniest games ever made. Great story, fantastic humor, great voice acting, visual jokes all over the place. The people who focus so much on presentation might as well say, "Well, it would be a lot better if it was 3D." No, it wouldn't. The "South Park" game sucked royal chunks of ass. It converted 2D to 3D, but there was no story, no plot, and no fun. Converting 2D characters to 3D means nothing to the success of any kind of game.
(Of course, the fact is that "3D" as it's currently accepted is NOT 3D since it's viewed on a 2D screen. True 3D requires red/blue or some other stereoscopic format. But, that's another topic all together...)
My two cents. It is your responsibility to convert that into your country's monetary denomination.