Vernon didn't care about any other than himself, he didn't even feel bad for Brie, he just wanted the boat plus he got a bunch of medicine. Yeah he helped Omid but c'mon you don't steal from people thats wrong no matter what
Well to be fair, like I said in that super-long ass rambling post above, the fact that Vernon was planning to steal the boat from the beginn… moreing means he planned to take it before Savannah was a complete death trap with the train herd. So even then, he wasn't looking to hurt Lee's group.
* So Vernon had no right the boat because he did nothing to get it working? Did nothing but get medicine? Let's not forget that Brie risked … moreher life along with Kenny to get fuel for a boat she didn't even need. That seems like a considerable amount of effort to me. So by your statement, Brie and by extension her group had every right to take the boat.
* The herd of walkers literally flooded the sewers. How would they just go by in a few months? Where would they go? I mean, they're stuck underground, are they gonna evaporate or something? The walkers that made it to the sewers were stuck there for good and, as a result, so was Vernon's group. They would've starved to death trying to wait them out. So yes, Kenny was planning to leave Vernon's group to die.
* If said group got one of my close group members horrifically and gruesomely killed in order to get that ONE THING because of pure stupidity, I'd have no qualms about stealing it. Vern… [view original content]
While we're talking about it, does anyone wonder how the hell they managed to get the boat to the water without making a shit ton of noise? … moreNot to mention the streets were crawling with walkers, so at least two people would have had to fight and protect the others the whole way. Considering the fact they aren't exactly in their prime, I find the whole thing hard to grasp. We don't really know how far exactly it was from the house to the dock but it must have been a considerable distance.
Vernon risked his life for medicine, nothing more. He claimed that that was all he needed, so he and his group teamed up with Lee and Co so each could get what their respective groups needed, nothing more.
Vernon didn't give them a fighting chance, he left them completely alone in a city that he knew was about to be swarmed with zombies. He willingly left a little girl, a woman and her boyfriend, an alcoholic, and an idiot to die for his own group of elderly after pretending to care about Clem. Kenny was most certainly NOT planning to leave Vernon and his group to die because Kenny and the rest didn't have any idea that the herd was coming. That makes it impossible for Lee's group to have intended to do to Vernon what Vernon did to them.
Planning to take the boat from the very beginning, even before the herd shows up, does in fact make him an even worse person than if he just stole it out of necessity. Vernon knew that Lee and Co were specifically looking for a boat, and before his group was in any danger he decided he was going to screw them over and take it even when his people had a secure, hidden shelter with months of food stocked for them. If that isn't the sign of a bad person, I don't know what is. He was going to leave Lee and Co. high and dry after everything they had lost on the way to get that boat. Saying "sorry" really doesn't make up for that.
He's not irredeemable, but I still hate him. He helped Omid with his injury upon first arriving to the house and before that volunteered (determinantly) to guide Lee out of the sewers which are the only reasons why I'd be willing to give him a second chance if he wanted one. But once the boat came into the picture he was perfectly willing to screw over a group of decent people despite having a great set up (food, shelter, security) in comparison with almost everyone else in the world. THAT is why I hate him.
Interesting that this topic was brought up again. Maybe now I can finally get an answer to something that's been bugging me for ages...
W… morehy the hell does anyone HATE Vernon for what he did?
First, consider the facts. Vernon risked his life to help get the boat working. He lost more than Lee's group and got less in return, so I think he had as much claim to the boat as anyone else. Let's not forget that Brie suffered pretty much the most horrific death in the game thanks to Ben's stupidity.
And then there's the herd Lee's group brought directly to his group's safe haven. After all the crap Vernon and his group went through, they finally found somewhere they could live in peace... and then it was destroyed, by the very people who got Brie killed. Seriously, what was he supposed to do? Sit around and wait for death? At least Vernon gave Lee and co. a fighting chance to survive, which was much more than Brie ever got.
And how can we f… [view original content]
He stole the boat to save his group's life. If Boyd's gonna get all preachy about it than fine, but at least show some gratitude to the guy who not only helped you survive for months, but also tried to save you by stealing the boat.
And he didn't feel bad about Brie? Did you see his reaction when she got killed? Pure horror. And as for his statement that her death didn't "break him up", he was referring to how people have become used to tragedies now, like how Lee doesn't shed a tear when Carley/Doug die. It doesn't mean in any way that he didn't care about Brie.
And yes, you're right, he did help Omid. For which he gained absolutely nothing from, but he still helped him. So it's wrong to steal from selfish idiots who get your friends killed and destroy your safe havens?
Vernon didn't care about any other than himself, he didn't even feel bad for Brie, he just wanted the boat plus he got a bunch of medicine. Yeah he helped Omid but c'mon you don't steal from people thats wrong no matter what
You do realize that Brie nearly got devoured helping Kenny get fuel that she absolutely no use for, right?
And you're comment kinda contradicts. It's screwing Lee's group over if Vernon wants to steal the boat before he knew about the herd, but it's perfectly fine for Kenny to want to leave the cancer patients high and dry? And how would planning to take the boat before the herd screw over Lee's group? At that point, Savannah was nearly walker free and perfectly safe. Hell, Lee already knew about the fallout shelter, so he knew where to find months of food. And he didn't willingly leave Clem, he clearly wanted to take her in an effort to save her from the herd he knew was coming. Not his fault if Lee decided to take a nap instead of seriously considering his offer.
And how would leaving Lee's group even after the herd not give them a fighting chance? Every single one of his group (minus Omid) are young and able-bodied, while Vernon's group was frail and elderly. Lee and co. managed just fine even with the herd around thanks to their sick parkour skills, Ben and Kenny only died thanks to clumsiness and lack of awareness. Hell, a little girl managed to escape Savannah just fine.
Vernon risked his life for medicine, nothing more. He claimed that that was all he needed, so he and his group teamed up with Lee and Co so … moreeach could get what their respective groups needed, nothing more.
Vernon didn't give them a fighting chance, he left them completely alone in a city that he knew was about to be swarmed with zombies. He willingly left a little girl, a woman and her boyfriend, an alcoholic, and an idiot to die for his own group of elderly after pretending to care about Clem. Kenny was most certainly NOT planning to leave Vernon and his group to die because Kenny and the rest didn't have any idea that the herd was coming. That makes it impossible for Lee's group to have intended to do to Vernon what Vernon did to them.
Planning to take the boat from the very beginning, even before the herd shows up, does in fact make him an even worse person than if he just stole it out of necessity. Vernon knew that Lee and Co were s… [view original content]
So you're asking people's opinions then when you're given one you dismiss it and say something rather pretentious like "That's internet people for ya" ? Nice, really nice.
We were talking about Vernon, not Brie, Brie never said she wanted the boat so SHE probably helped without any afterthought compared to Vernon, huge difference. Brie helped out of the goodness of her heart, unlike Vernon who just leeched off Lee's group's efforts without risking anything for them, that's the facts.
Flooded the sewers ? We have no idea if that's true, we only see 2 or 3 at most getting through the hole when Lee's group go back in the shelter, you're assuming too much. We all know walkers just tend to roam around when there isn't anything to do, that's what "herd" is, a huge group moving in a random direction, just following the ones ahead of them, it says so in the show and the comics. They'd have moved on sooner or later.
Please, he says himself he doesn't care about Brie's death, besides actually the only ones who are aware that it's Ben who opened the door at that time are Lee Molly and Clementine, when they get inside the room Ben panics and reveals Katjaa&Duck thing but NOT the door, so Vernon still has no idea what the fuck happened. Once again you're assuming things.
Seems to me that there are a bucketload of reason to hate him, if you don't that's fine, just don't go around saying that opinion is invalid and "lol internet ppl", please.
* So Vernon had no right the boat because he did nothing to get it working? Did nothing but get medicine? Let's not forget that Brie risked … moreher life along with Kenny to get fuel for a boat she didn't even need. That seems like a considerable amount of effort to me. So by your statement, Brie and by extension her group had every right to take the boat.
* The herd of walkers literally flooded the sewers. How would they just go by in a few months? Where would they go? I mean, they're stuck underground, are they gonna evaporate or something? The walkers that made it to the sewers were stuck there for good and, as a result, so was Vernon's group. They would've starved to death trying to wait them out. So yes, Kenny was planning to leave Vernon's group to die.
* If said group got one of my close group members horrifically and gruesomely killed in order to get that ONE THING because of pure stupidity, I'd have no qualms about stealing it. Vern… [view original content]
Er, didn't mean to say people's opinions are invalid, just meant that 1) they come off as irrationally vindictive and 2) people get really passionate about their opinions on fictional characters. Didn't mean to start a fight or anything man
So Vernon just leeched off of Lee's group? Seems like the opposite to me. Not only did they get Brie killed with their stupidity, Vernon helped Omid and gained absolutely nothing from it. And I'd say that helping Lee's group get to Crawford at all was risking his life, what with the walkers and, from his POV until actually getting there, the crazy folks in Crawford they'd have to get past.
And as for Brie, I already explained in a post below. He said "he wasn't broken up over it" as in people are used to tragedy by now. Does the fact that Lee doesn't sob over Carley mean he didn't care about her death? And I have no idea what your comment about the door means. Vernon knew Brie was holding the door down, and he knew the reason they were held up in the classroom was because Ben was causing drama (Kenny clearly and LOUDLY kicks the exit open before Ben's confession)
I'm pretty sure the characters themselves say that the sewers are goddamn full of walkers. Considering the amount of walkers in Savannah at the time, it's more of a baseless assumption to think that there are at total of THREE walkers down there. And like I said, those walkers are underground. They weren't going anywhere else anytime soon. And one accidentally dropped plate, one unchecked sneeze, and several dozen walkers would be slamming against their defenses. Which consists of a flimsy metal sheet, which Lee easily breaks off the wall.
So you're asking people's opinions then when you're given one you dismiss it and say something rather pretentious like "That's internet peop… morele for ya" ? Nice, really nice.
* We were talking about Vernon, not Brie, Brie never said she wanted the boat so SHE probably helped without any afterthought compared to Vernon, huge difference. Brie helped out of the goodness of her heart, unlike Vernon who just leeched off Lee's group's efforts without risking anything for them, that's the facts.
* Flooded the sewers ? We have no idea if that's true, we only see 2 or 3 at most getting through the hole when Lee's group go back in the shelter, you're assuming too much. We all know walkers just tend to roam around when there isn't anything to do, that's what "herd" is, a huge group moving in a random direction, just following the ones ahead of them, it says so in the show and the comics. They'd have moved on sooner or later.
* Please, he says hi… [view original content]
Why would I feel sorry for them? They didn't NEED to steal the boat at all, it was Vernon's half-cocked plan. They had a hidden base with tons of food, enough to last at least a year. They wouldn't have needed to explore for any reason plus they were sickly, why would walkers matter?
When I played Shel's story in 400 Days I wanted to kill any and all of them the first chance I got. Unfortunately the nicest guy was the only one to go... But I still haven't forgiven them.
No, no and no. Vernon even said that they we're well-protected. He had no excuse for taking the boat other than he's greedy. If Vernon comes back in the game, he won't be around for long...
Don't get me wrong, I'm doing my best to be a nice person who gives second chances and tries to keep the group together, however what Vernon was just scumbagish.
If he and the others felt so desperate to leave Savannah he could have said something earlier (atleast if you play good-guy Lee who doesn't threaten Vernon) and maybe we could work something out (I have no clue what we could do but just something) but instead he just stranded Lee and his group in the Walker infested Savannah.
Yes, they might have had it bad and all but still.It just pisses me off more than most things for some reason (I even tried to save Larry and forgave Ben and Lilly)
If I got the choice I wouldn't kill any of them, but they won't be joing my group.
That's what I meant by the "door accident", I'm talking about the door Ben opened. No one aside from Molly, Lee and Clementine know it's him who did it. Thus, Vernon has, until the end, no idea that it's Lee's group who is responsible for Brie's death. Like I said, helping Omid is nice but keep in mind he says himself he knows the sewers like the back of his hand, there was practically 0 chance of being even noticed by the sound of it, if it had been too dangerous I'm not sure he would've done it, but who knows.
He says it himself, "I don't feel much", not really sure what you're trying to argue here, it's pretty clear. Unlike Lee who's very clearly affected by any person's death throughout the game. Never in the game do you hear Lee saying something like "Yeah well, I didn't really care", unlike Vernon. He probably just keeps his feelings inside to be the person Clementine can lean on.
Remember what happened when a walker tried to go down the sewers ? it crashed and died. Know what I mean by that ? Walkers got inside the sewers by some sort of easily accessible passage, which means they could get out just as easily, given time. Lee was just next door and we couldn't hear anything, Vernon's group didn't hear the metal plank when it fell down either seeing as how they're surprised Lee arrived, that door is pretty well soundproofed, no chance of walkers hearing anything. And last point, "easily breaks" ? Lee took a few steps, ran and jumped with all his weight (you know what kind of pressure such a thing can dish out right ?) on the damn thing and it only slided a bit, you think a walker can do that ? Not a chance.
Now, you have your opinion, if you think nothing Vernon did was worth hate then who am I to say anything, but don't say people are irrational, I think I've proven that we have decent reasons to not like him. And sure, I'm not starting a fight either no worries, just trying to give some examples of why some people here (me included) don't like him.
Er, didn't mean to say people's opinions are invalid, just meant that 1) they come off as irrationally vindictive and 2) people get really p… moreassionate about their opinions on fictional characters. Didn't mean to start a fight or anything man
* So Vernon just leeched off of Lee's group? Seems like the opposite to me. Not only did they get Brie killed with their stupidity, Vernon helped Omid and gained absolutely nothing from it. And I'd say that helping Lee's group get to Crawford at all was risking his life, what with the walkers and, from his POV until actually getting there, the crazy folks in Crawford they'd have to get past.
* And as for Brie, I already explained in a post below. He said "he wasn't broken up over it" as in people are used to tragedy by now. Does the fact that Lee doesn't sob over Carley mean he didn't care about her death? And I have no idea what your comment about the door means. Vernon knew Brie was holding the … [view original content]
Me: bastards!
Boyd: I never wanted to steal the boat.
Me: Oke... And the others? No regret... Do you know what I just have nothing to say untill it is important. I understand they were scared to stay behind so I can forgive Boyd...
I would actually like to point out that we did something very similar.
Remember when we stole the suplies from the car? Well at least you could have. The lights were still on and it wasn't even ours. So what vernon did is actually like what we did earlier, stealing something that wasnt his.
I think I hated all of them for doing that to us until 400 Days when I liked Boyd and Clive a bit more,I hate Vernon the most though,then probably Joyce.
It doesn't matter who removed the hatchet and let the walkers in. Ben is responsible for Brie's death because he was preventing the group from easily escaping the classroom by causing needless drama while Brie was holding down the door. Vernon was there, he saw Kenny kick open the exit, he knew the only reason they weren't hauling ass out of there was because Ben was drama-ing, and he knew if they hadn't stood around the classroom drama-ing, Brie wouldn't have died. Vernon knew full well that Ben caused Brie's death, and yet he's still horrified if Lee let's Ben die... I wonder what kind of man this makes Vernon? Seems like a decent one to me...
And Vernon faced no risk by helping Omid? Didn't the rest of the cancer patients freak the hell out when Vernon even suggested leaving the shelter? Doesn't seem like there was practically zero chance of being noticed from the sound of things.
We can debate whether Vernon really cared about Brie's death or not (considering how pissed he is about her death if Lee's an asshole, I'm inclined to think that Vernon was purposely downplaying her death so Nice Lee wouldn't feel guilty about it). It has no bearing on whether or not Vernon committed some kind of heinous crime on Lee's group. Also, his exact words were "I don't feel much. I mean, I don't feel enough..." Seems more like he's feeling guilty that he's become so desensitized to tragedy, and that he feels like Brie's death deserves a greater reaction, like when he was "broken up" about his daughter's death.
And about the walkers in the sewers, if you go back and see the section Lee explores, literally the only passages in are the broken ladder above the shelter and the fun-slide near the dead rats. Walkers didn't get in by some easily accessible passage; considering their shear numbers, isn't it pretty much certain that after enough walkers fell down the manhole and died, they eventually left a cushiony soft pile of dead corpses? From then, any subsequent walkers would have fallen in, dusted themselves off, and enjoyed shambling around their new underground home completely fine. Plus, the point I was making was that Lee broke the metal sheet. As in, it's broken now, walkers can easily break through it. Unless Vernon and co. decided to make a crap ton of noise to weld it back in place, thereby drawing in more walkers and defeating the whole purpose... The bottom line is, like it or not, Kenny and the group were planning to leave Vernon's group to die. No question. The sewers were infested with walkers that weren't going anywhere.
So now are there ANY reasons left why people should hate Vernon? The man had sympathy for Ben, the idiot who got Brie killed. He only stole the boat because he knew his group was screwed if they stayed in the shelter. He helped Omid, a complete stranger, even though he gained nothing from it and risked everything to do it. I'm really curious if there are any "decent reasons to not like him" like you claim.
By the way, thanks for being so calm and rational about your explanation, it's a nice change from the VERNON IS UNFORGIVABLE you usually see. I had no intention of coming off as pretentious, so my apologies again. Disliking Vernon for looking out for his own group at the expense of ours is understandable. What's NOT understandable is how some people think Vernon is some kind of irredeemable monster who deserves "a bullet to the head" or to be "thrown to the walkers". Seriously people, this is Vernon we're talking about, not Danny St. John or something.
* That's what I meant by the "door accident", I'm talking about the door Ben opened. No one aside from Molly, Lee and Clementine know it's h… moreim who did it. Thus, Vernon has, until the end, no idea that it's Lee's group who is responsible for Brie's death. Like I said, helping Omid is nice but keep in mind he says himself he knows the sewers like the back of his hand, there was practically 0 chance of being even noticed by the sound of it, if it had been too dangerous I'm not sure he would've done it, but who knows.
* He says it himself, "I don't feel much", not really sure what you're trying to argue here, it's pretty clear. Unlike Lee who's very clearly affected by any person's death throughout the game. Never in the game do you hear Lee saying something like "Yeah well, I didn't really care", unlike Vernon. He probably just keeps his feelings inside to be the person Clementine can lean on.
* Remember what happened when a walker tried t… [view original content]
Dude man just accept that some people are going to hate Vernon for what he did you may no understand it but they just do let them have their reasoning while you have yours and there is Going to be people who hate a character cough lily cough kenny etc. and people probably hate Vernon because they're probably imagining how it'd be like if they were lee if somebody who I though were good people suddenly took a boat that my group and I discovered if probably hate them for it (also considering the fact that Vernon saw the herd approaching yet said nothing about it)
* It doesn't matter who removed the hatchet and let the walkers in. Ben is responsible for Brie's death because he was preventing the group … morefrom easily escaping the classroom by causing needless drama while Brie was holding down the door. Vernon was there, he saw Kenny kick open the exit, he knew the only reason they weren't hauling ass out of there was because Ben was drama-ing, and he knew if they hadn't stood around the classroom drama-ing, Brie wouldn't have died. Vernon knew full well that Ben caused Brie's death, and yet he's still horrified if Lee let's Ben die... I wonder what kind of man this makes Vernon? Seems like a decent one to me...
And Vernon faced no risk by helping Omid? Didn't the rest of the cancer patients freak the hell out when Vernon even suggested leaving the shelter? Doesn't seem like there was practically zero chance of being noticed from the sound of things.
* We can debate whether Vernon really cared about B… [view original content]
* It doesn't matter who removed the hatchet and let the walkers in. Ben is responsible for Brie's death because he was preventing the group … morefrom easily escaping the classroom by causing needless drama while Brie was holding down the door. Vernon was there, he saw Kenny kick open the exit, he knew the only reason they weren't hauling ass out of there was because Ben was drama-ing, and he knew if they hadn't stood around the classroom drama-ing, Brie wouldn't have died. Vernon knew full well that Ben caused Brie's death, and yet he's still horrified if Lee let's Ben die... I wonder what kind of man this makes Vernon? Seems like a decent one to me...
And Vernon faced no risk by helping Omid? Didn't the rest of the cancer patients freak the hell out when Vernon even suggested leaving the shelter? Doesn't seem like there was practically zero chance of being noticed from the sound of things.
* We can debate whether Vernon really cared about B… [view original content]
Aw, but it's fun discussing our thoughts on characters...
And that's kinda the reason why I asked in the first place; I really am curious why people so absolutely hate the guy and I want to know if they have any justified reasoning behind it. I mean, you'd think Lee would feel guilt rather than hatred once he thought about how he completely ruined Vernon and co.'s lives. Plus, Vernon had good reason to not tell them about the herd. If he did, Lee's group would've hauled ass the second they got the boat working, leaving Vernon no opportunity to take it.
Dude man just accept that some people are going to hate Vernon for what he did you may no understand it but they just do let them have their… more reasoning while you have yours and there is Going to be people who hate a character cough lily cough kenny etc. and people probably hate Vernon because they're probably imagining how it'd be like if they were lee if somebody who I though were good people suddenly took a boat that my group and I discovered if probably hate them for it (also considering the fact that Vernon saw the herd approaching yet said nothing about it)
The more I think about them the more I wish I wasn't so nice to them in the first place. I was SOOO chill and truthful with Vernon and when he took the boat it was the biggest "wtf man!?!" and I wish i threatened him when he said he would take Clementine off my hands but instead i gave him the "I... have to think about it..." choice. I hope I run into him at carvers place and make Clemmy Clem beat the snot of him with a crowbar.
The more I think about them the more I wish I wasn't so nice to them in the first place. I was SOOO chill and truthful with Vernon and when … morehe took the boat it was the biggest "wtf man!?!" and I wish i threatened him when he said he would take Clementine off my hands but instead i gave him the "I... have to think about it..." choice. I hope I run into him at carvers place and make Clemmy Clem beat the snot of him with a crowbar.
Comments
And what they did was completely justified, no?
Vernon didn't care about any other than himself, he didn't even feel bad for Brie, he just wanted the boat plus he got a bunch of medicine. Yeah he helped Omid but c'mon you don't steal from people thats wrong no matter what
Yes. Yes I did.
We don't know what Boyd meant when he said from the beginning for all we know he was just referring to when they saw that the group had one
Now there's a statement I can get behind!!!
They didn't, that's why we find members of the group in 400 Days.
lol fuck the cancer patients (not a hate post)
Which was... still before they knew about the oncoming herd.
Vernon risked his life for medicine, nothing more. He claimed that that was all he needed, so he and his group teamed up with Lee and Co so each could get what their respective groups needed, nothing more.
Vernon didn't give them a fighting chance, he left them completely alone in a city that he knew was about to be swarmed with zombies. He willingly left a little girl, a woman and her boyfriend, an alcoholic, and an idiot to die for his own group of elderly after pretending to care about Clem. Kenny was most certainly NOT planning to leave Vernon and his group to die because Kenny and the rest didn't have any idea that the herd was coming. That makes it impossible for Lee's group to have intended to do to Vernon what Vernon did to them.
Planning to take the boat from the very beginning, even before the herd shows up, does in fact make him an even worse person than if he just stole it out of necessity. Vernon knew that Lee and Co were specifically looking for a boat, and before his group was in any danger he decided he was going to screw them over and take it even when his people had a secure, hidden shelter with months of food stocked for them. If that isn't the sign of a bad person, I don't know what is. He was going to leave Lee and Co. high and dry after everything they had lost on the way to get that boat. Saying "sorry" really doesn't make up for that.
He's not irredeemable, but I still hate him. He helped Omid with his injury upon first arriving to the house and before that volunteered (determinantly) to guide Lee out of the sewers which are the only reasons why I'd be willing to give him a second chance if he wanted one. But once the boat came into the picture he was perfectly willing to screw over a group of decent people despite having a great set up (food, shelter, security) in comparison with almost everyone else in the world. THAT is why I hate him.
He stole the boat to save his group's life. If Boyd's gonna get all preachy about it than fine, but at least show some gratitude to the guy who not only helped you survive for months, but also tried to save you by stealing the boat.
And he didn't feel bad about Brie? Did you see his reaction when she got killed? Pure horror. And as for his statement that her death didn't "break him up", he was referring to how people have become used to tragedies now, like how Lee doesn't shed a tear when Carley/Doug die. It doesn't mean in any way that he didn't care about Brie.
And yes, you're right, he did help Omid. For which he gained absolutely nothing from, but he still helped him. So it's wrong to steal from selfish idiots who get your friends killed and destroy your safe havens?
You do realize that Brie nearly got devoured helping Kenny get fuel that she absolutely no use for, right?
And you're comment kinda contradicts. It's screwing Lee's group over if Vernon wants to steal the boat before he knew about the herd, but it's perfectly fine for Kenny to want to leave the cancer patients high and dry? And how would planning to take the boat before the herd screw over Lee's group? At that point, Savannah was nearly walker free and perfectly safe. Hell, Lee already knew about the fallout shelter, so he knew where to find months of food. And he didn't willingly leave Clem, he clearly wanted to take her in an effort to save her from the herd he knew was coming. Not his fault if Lee decided to take a nap instead of seriously considering his offer.
And how would leaving Lee's group even after the herd not give them a fighting chance? Every single one of his group (minus Omid) are young and able-bodied, while Vernon's group was frail and elderly. Lee and co. managed just fine even with the herd around thanks to their sick parkour skills, Ben and Kenny only died thanks to clumsiness and lack of awareness. Hell, a little girl managed to escape Savannah just fine.
So you're asking people's opinions then when you're given one you dismiss it and say something rather pretentious like "That's internet people for ya" ? Nice, really nice.
We were talking about Vernon, not Brie, Brie never said she wanted the boat so SHE probably helped without any afterthought compared to Vernon, huge difference. Brie helped out of the goodness of her heart, unlike Vernon who just leeched off Lee's group's efforts without risking anything for them, that's the facts.
Flooded the sewers ? We have no idea if that's true, we only see 2 or 3 at most getting through the hole when Lee's group go back in the shelter, you're assuming too much. We all know walkers just tend to roam around when there isn't anything to do, that's what "herd" is, a huge group moving in a random direction, just following the ones ahead of them, it says so in the show and the comics. They'd have moved on sooner or later.
Please, he says himself he doesn't care about Brie's death, besides actually the only ones who are aware that it's Ben who opened the door at that time are Lee Molly and Clementine, when they get inside the room Ben panics and reveals Katjaa&Duck thing but NOT the door, so Vernon still has no idea what the fuck happened. Once again you're assuming things.
Seems to me that there are a bucketload of reason to hate him, if you don't that's fine, just don't go around saying that opinion is invalid and "lol internet ppl", please.
Er, didn't mean to say people's opinions are invalid, just meant that 1) they come off as irrationally vindictive and 2) people get really passionate about their opinions on fictional characters. Didn't mean to start a fight or anything man
So Vernon just leeched off of Lee's group? Seems like the opposite to me. Not only did they get Brie killed with their stupidity, Vernon helped Omid and gained absolutely nothing from it. And I'd say that helping Lee's group get to Crawford at all was risking his life, what with the walkers and, from his POV until actually getting there, the crazy folks in Crawford they'd have to get past.
And as for Brie, I already explained in a post below. He said "he wasn't broken up over it" as in people are used to tragedy by now. Does the fact that Lee doesn't sob over Carley mean he didn't care about her death? And I have no idea what your comment about the door means. Vernon knew Brie was holding the door down, and he knew the reason they were held up in the classroom was because Ben was causing drama (Kenny clearly and LOUDLY kicks the exit open before Ben's confession)
I'm pretty sure the characters themselves say that the sewers are goddamn full of walkers. Considering the amount of walkers in Savannah at the time, it's more of a baseless assumption to think that there are at total of THREE walkers down there. And like I said, those walkers are underground. They weren't going anywhere else anytime soon. And one accidentally dropped plate, one unchecked sneeze, and several dozen walkers would be slamming against their defenses. Which consists of a flimsy metal sheet, which Lee easily breaks off the wall.
Why would I feel sorry for them? They didn't NEED to steal the boat at all, it was Vernon's half-cocked plan. They had a hidden base with tons of food, enough to last at least a year. They wouldn't have needed to explore for any reason plus they were sickly, why would walkers matter?
When I played Shel's story in 400 Days I wanted to kill any and all of them the first chance I got. Unfortunately the nicest guy was the only one to go... But I still haven't forgiven them.
Oooooookkkkkk whatever
Ooooooooooooookkkkkk then...?
No, no and no. Vernon even said that they we're well-protected. He had no excuse for taking the boat other than he's greedy. If Vernon comes back in the game, he won't be around for long...
I would not forgive them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm doing my best to be a nice person who gives second chances and tries to keep the group together, however what Vernon was just scumbagish.
If he and the others felt so desperate to leave Savannah he could have said something earlier (atleast if you play good-guy Lee who doesn't threaten Vernon) and maybe we could work something out (I have no clue what we could do but just something) but instead he just stranded Lee and his group in the Walker infested Savannah.
Yes, they might have had it bad and all but still.It just pisses me off more than most things for some reason (I even tried to save Larry and forgave Ben and Lilly)
If I got the choice I wouldn't kill any of them, but they won't be joing my group.
I like Boyd.
But to the others, ESPCIALLY VERNON....
FUCK THEM!
It'd be much funnier if he was black
No.
I felt bad to a point but I never once really trusted them. Then when they stole my boat I was like those bastards.
That's what I meant by the "door accident", I'm talking about the door Ben opened. No one aside from Molly, Lee and Clementine know it's him who did it. Thus, Vernon has, until the end, no idea that it's Lee's group who is responsible for Brie's death. Like I said, helping Omid is nice but keep in mind he says himself he knows the sewers like the back of his hand, there was practically 0 chance of being even noticed by the sound of it, if it had been too dangerous I'm not sure he would've done it, but who knows.
He says it himself, "I don't feel much", not really sure what you're trying to argue here, it's pretty clear. Unlike Lee who's very clearly affected by any person's death throughout the game. Never in the game do you hear Lee saying something like "Yeah well, I didn't really care", unlike Vernon. He probably just keeps his feelings inside to be the person Clementine can lean on.
Remember what happened when a walker tried to go down the sewers ? it crashed and died. Know what I mean by that ? Walkers got inside the sewers by some sort of easily accessible passage, which means they could get out just as easily, given time. Lee was just next door and we couldn't hear anything, Vernon's group didn't hear the metal plank when it fell down either seeing as how they're surprised Lee arrived, that door is pretty well soundproofed, no chance of walkers hearing anything. And last point, "easily breaks" ? Lee took a few steps, ran and jumped with all his weight (you know what kind of pressure such a thing can dish out right ?) on the damn thing and it only slided a bit, you think a walker can do that ? Not a chance.
Now, you have your opinion, if you think nothing Vernon did was worth hate then who am I to say anything, but don't say people are irrational, I think I've proven that we have decent reasons to not like him. And sure, I'm not starting a fight either no worries, just trying to give some examples of why some people here (me included) don't like him.
Me: bastards!
Boyd: I never wanted to steal the boat.
Me: Oke... And the others? No regret... Do you know what I just have nothing to say untill it is important. I understand they were scared to stay behind so I can forgive Boyd...
I wouldn't have gotten on that boat anyways. The Boat sounded like a death trap
I would actually like to point out that we did something very similar.
Remember when we stole the suplies from the car? Well at least you could have. The lights were still on and it wasn't even ours. So what vernon did is actually like what we did earlier, stealing something that wasnt his.
I think I hated all of them for doing that to us until 400 Days when I liked Boyd and Clive a bit more,I hate Vernon the most though,then probably Joyce.
It doesn't matter who removed the hatchet and let the walkers in. Ben is responsible for Brie's death because he was preventing the group from easily escaping the classroom by causing needless drama while Brie was holding down the door. Vernon was there, he saw Kenny kick open the exit, he knew the only reason they weren't hauling ass out of there was because Ben was drama-ing, and he knew if they hadn't stood around the classroom drama-ing, Brie wouldn't have died. Vernon knew full well that Ben caused Brie's death, and yet he's still horrified if Lee let's Ben die... I wonder what kind of man this makes Vernon? Seems like a decent one to me...
And Vernon faced no risk by helping Omid? Didn't the rest of the cancer patients freak the hell out when Vernon even suggested leaving the shelter? Doesn't seem like there was practically zero chance of being noticed from the sound of things.
We can debate whether Vernon really cared about Brie's death or not (considering how pissed he is about her death if Lee's an asshole, I'm inclined to think that Vernon was purposely downplaying her death so Nice Lee wouldn't feel guilty about it). It has no bearing on whether or not Vernon committed some kind of heinous crime on Lee's group. Also, his exact words were "I don't feel much. I mean, I don't feel enough..." Seems more like he's feeling guilty that he's become so desensitized to tragedy, and that he feels like Brie's death deserves a greater reaction, like when he was "broken up" about his daughter's death.
And about the walkers in the sewers, if you go back and see the section Lee explores, literally the only passages in are the broken ladder above the shelter and the fun-slide near the dead rats. Walkers didn't get in by some easily accessible passage; considering their shear numbers, isn't it pretty much certain that after enough walkers fell down the manhole and died, they eventually left a cushiony soft pile of dead corpses? From then, any subsequent walkers would have fallen in, dusted themselves off, and enjoyed shambling around their new underground home completely fine. Plus, the point I was making was that Lee broke the metal sheet. As in, it's broken now, walkers can easily break through it. Unless Vernon and co. decided to make a crap ton of noise to weld it back in place, thereby drawing in more walkers and defeating the whole purpose... The bottom line is, like it or not, Kenny and the group were planning to leave Vernon's group to die. No question. The sewers were infested with walkers that weren't going anywhere.
So now are there ANY reasons left why people should hate Vernon? The man had sympathy for Ben, the idiot who got Brie killed. He only stole the boat because he knew his group was screwed if they stayed in the shelter. He helped Omid, a complete stranger, even though he gained nothing from it and risked everything to do it. I'm really curious if there are any "decent reasons to not like him" like you claim.
By the way, thanks for being so calm and rational about your explanation, it's a nice change from the VERNON IS UNFORGIVABLE you usually see. I had no intention of coming off as pretentious, so my apologies again. Disliking Vernon for looking out for his own group at the expense of ours is understandable. What's NOT understandable is how some people think Vernon is some kind of irredeemable monster who deserves "a bullet to the head" or to be "thrown to the walkers". Seriously people, this is Vernon we're talking about, not Danny St. John or something.
Dude man just accept that some people are going to hate Vernon for what he did you may no understand it but they just do let them have their reasoning while you have yours and there is Going to be people who hate a character cough lily cough kenny etc. and people probably hate Vernon because they're probably imagining how it'd be like if they were lee if somebody who I though were good people suddenly took a boat that my group and I discovered if probably hate them for it (also considering the fact that Vernon saw the herd approaching yet said nothing about it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJHrAWwtgY
Aw, but it's fun discussing our thoughts on characters...
And that's kinda the reason why I asked in the first place; I really am curious why people so absolutely hate the guy and I want to know if they have any justified reasoning behind it. I mean, you'd think Lee would feel guilt rather than hatred once he thought about how he completely ruined Vernon and co.'s lives. Plus, Vernon had good reason to not tell them about the herd. If he did, Lee's group would've hauled ass the second they got the boat working, leaving Vernon no opportunity to take it.
The more I think about them the more I wish I wasn't so nice to them in the first place. I was SOOO chill and truthful with Vernon and when he took the boat it was the biggest "wtf man!?!" and I wish i threatened him when he said he would take Clementine off my hands but instead i gave him the "I... have to think about it..." choice. I hope I run into him at carvers place and make Clemmy Clem beat the snot of him with a crowbar.
Gonna pull a jason todd