Max...?

edited January 2009 in Sam & Max
Sorry, I just felt that something needed to be said about this. If there's another topic about this, I appoligize, and would you please direct me to it?
I've noticed that Max has appeared to become less and less important to the storyline and the puzzle-solving. In fact, he's the cause of a lot of their problems.
I know I've said this before, but I think there should be an episode where you can be Max, instead of Sam. Or at least so that you can switch characters. Max should be the hero one time, instead of Sam.
Even in the TV series, I can only think of one episode where Max solved the problem without the help of Sam, and the problem was his fault in the first place. (Yes, I am referring to A Glitch in Time)
Anyway, I just thought that needed to be said. Any thoughts and/or criticism on the subject?
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Comments

  • edited December 2008
    I think that max starting the problems is part of his character!
  • edited December 2008
    I kinda liked how in Hit the Road, Max had an icon in the inventory or you could just grab him, then use him like an item on things. I'm not entirely sure if this has been done in the Telltale games or not since I haven't played past Abe Lincoln must Die. But that would be a nice way of including him more in the solving of puzzles. Of course just plain using him would be neat too, you could pull out the Luger like Sam's Revolver... maybe you could even see where he pulls it out from!
  • edited December 2008
    "use max on open 35th floor window"
    it would be funny to see what max says about that.:D
  • edited December 2008
    you could pull out the Luger like Sam's Revolver... maybe you could even see where he pulls it out from!
    You can do this in NOTRD, and it comes out exactly where you think it comes out...
  • edited December 2008
    Yeah Max has overall imo been left to much alone, he isnt even involved in any action / voilence, i sure hope in Season 3 we can use him for stuff like turning a cat inside out :) and stuff like that, just more than going around and saying wierd stuff, the whole concept of having 2 "people" is they should each have their usage.
  • edited December 2008
    Ashton wrote: »
    You can do this in NOTRD, and it comes out exactly where you think it comes out...

    Hahaha! I lol'd.
  • edited December 2008
    Hahaha! I lol'd.

    One of the TTG people (I think it was Scott or Tobacco) actually comment something to the tune of "...I cant believe you went to all that trouble (of lining it all up) just to see that..." lol!

    but yes, I agree, we need more Max! I think there should even be a way to switch control and have max go into one room and Sam into another and use the pair to solve puzzles (TTG would do well in this respect to look at the old game "Secret of Evermore" where you had a boy and his dog and you could control whichever you wanted and use the pair together to solve puzzles)

    Though from a programming standpoint, I understand this is a MASSIVE undertaking (basically doubles all the dialog unless you want character X to basically ignore Sam and only talk to max or vice-versa)
  • edited December 2008
    Maxilyah wrote: »
    Sorry, I just felt that something needed to be said about this. If there's another topic about this, I appoligize, and would you please direct me to it?
    I've noticed that Max has appeared to become less and less important to the storyline and the puzzle-solving. In fact, he's the cause of a lot of their problems.
    I know I've said this before, but I think there should be an episode where you can be Max, instead of Sam. Or at least so that you can switch characters. Max should be the hero one time, instead of Sam.
    Even in the TV series, I can only think of one episode where Max solved the problem without the help of Sam, and the problem was his fault in the first place. (Yes, I am referring to A Glitch in Time)
    Anyway, I just thought that needed to be said. Any thoughts and/or criticism on the subject?

    I agree, OH yes!! I agree!!! Playable Max!
  • edited December 2008
    I think that little part in NOTRD was enough.
    Don't want to take away from Max's aura of mystique.
  • edited December 2008
    while I don't think Max should be the main character in any episode (someone with his attention span is not a typical protagonist :D ), I did like the way Sam could use him in Hit the Road - not to mention the bucketload of funny one-liners it could induce!
  • edited December 2008
    [regarding Max's gun]
    Ashton wrote: »
    You can do this in NOTRD, and it comes out exactly where you think it comes out...
    Looks like he's just reaching behind his back, to me.

    I don't think Max has the attention span to be the hero. He was a bit more together in the cartoon.
  • edited December 2008
    Shwoo wrote: »
    [regarding Max's gun]
    Looks like he's just reaching behind his back, to me.

    I don't think Max has the attention span to be the hero. He was a bit more together in the cartoon.

    That's why I liked the cartoon better. =/
  • edited December 2008
    while I don't think Max should be the main character in any episode (someone with his attention span is not a typical protagonist :D ), I did like the way Sam could use him in Hit the Road - not to mention the bucketload of funny one-liners it could induce!

    I'm with you on this one. Max as a playable character would be too much of him, I think. He's an awesome sidekick, but his style of humor just isn't suited to a main character role. It'd be like giving Kramer from Seinfeld his own show. :)

    That said, I understand why Telltale did away with the Max icon. Never knowing what's going to happen when you use Max on something isn't exactly conducive to logic puzzles. Then again, that kind of mystery can be fun...
  • edited December 2008
    I'm not saying Max should be the MAIN character. I just think he should do something alone for once, and not be entirely useless in a case. Maybe there could just be an area where Sam can't go (being too tall or too fat, or whatever, XD) and that Max would need to be to solve the puzzle.
  • edited December 2008
    Maxilyah wrote: »
    Even in the TV series, I can only think of one episode where Max solved the problem without the help of Sam, and the problem was his fault in the first place. (Yes, I am referring to A Glitch in Time)
    I just looked through the comics to see if Max does anything there.

    What about Bad Day on the Moon? He killed the cockroach that was pointing the gun at them. Maimed it in the cartoon. He also saved the world from one of Sam's lame songs, at least for now.

    I was looking through the comics, and it looked like Max also defeated the Beast From the Cereal Aisle while Sam was busy screaming like a grandmother. I think that getting the monster to come out was a joint effort, though.

    In Terror on the Tanbark, Young Max tried to beat up a bully that hit Young Sam. He didn't really get it right, though.
  • edited December 2008
    I totally agree with you, Maxilyah. I would love to see (at least) a little more interactivity with him. Max just seems to "hang around" and not do much.
  • edited December 2008
    I think there should be like mini-games where you play as Max in a first person shooter mode. YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT! That or, like a third person fighter mode where he bites people 'N stuff.
  • edited December 2008
    Maxilyah wrote: »
    I'm not saying Max should be the MAIN character. I just think he should do something alone for once, and not be entirely useless in a case. Maybe there could just be an area where Sam can't go (being too tall or too fat, or whatever, XD) and that Max would need to be to solve the puzzle.

    Yeah, I see exactly what you mean Maxilyah.
    Just like the episode
    101, where Sam was alone while max was caught by Brady Culture and Sam had to help him alone
    (Imagining that happens to Max where Max is alone at one point and we are controlling him)... That would be just awesome. ;)
  • edited December 2008
    Yeah, I really want to see Max be of more use. Really, is there any reason he's there besides comic relief? Maybe there could be something like in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask in the end of the
    Anju & Kafei quest where you switch between Link and Kafei
    .
  • edited December 2008
    Botap wrote: »
    I'm with you on this one. Max as a playable character would be too much of him, I think. He's an awesome sidekick, but his style of humor just isn't suited to a main character role. It'd be like giving Kramer from Seinfeld his own show. :)

    That said, I understand why Telltale did away with the Max icon. Never knowing what's going to happen when you use Max on something isn't exactly conducive to logic puzzles. Then again, that kind of mystery can be fun...

    Well, it would be similar to Sam's gun - and the similarities don't necessarily end here :D As to why Telltale did away with the icon, we should probably ask them - Telltale people, if you read this, can you please enlighten us here?

    Maxilyah: OK, now I understand what you're saying. Playing Max in a single puzzle (or a minigame? wow!) certainly sounds interesting :)
  • edited December 2008
    Well, it would be similar to Sam's gun - and the similarities don't necessarily end here :D As to why Telltale did away with the icon, we should probably ask them - Telltale people, if you read this, can you please enlighten us here?

    Actually, if you were to search the forum, you'd find that this question was answered many times before :)
  • edited December 2008
    tabacco wrote: »
    Actually, if you were to search the forum, you'd find that this question was answered many times before :)

    Actually, you're quite right :o
    After digging for a while, I found this thread - there are some very good points in posts #26 and #30. However, these are partly negated by Sam's gun, which has the same wildcard effect as Max would. Let me mention, though, that I'm always tempted to use the gun even in the most impossible situations, and probably the same would be the case with Max.
  • edited December 2008
    I don't the gun is as much of a wildcard as Max. You can predict the kind of effect a gun would have on the object you're using it on, and you can't predict what Max is going to do.
  • edited December 2008
    Shwoo wrote: »
    I don't the gun is as much of a wildcard as Max. You can predict the kind of effect a gun would have on the object you're using it on, and you can't predict what Max is going to do.

    Ah yes, the well known gun effect of
    turning ordinary cheese into swiss cheese
    :D

    and, to the extent the gun is predictable, so is Max - with the gun, the target object will be punctured or at least concussed, then with Max, it will be brutally savaged ;)
  • edited December 2008
    Also, Sam's never really shot and wounded someone. He's too much of a softy, whereas Max would probably injure and/or kill someone.
  • edited January 2009
    in season 3, they should allow u 2 switch beetween sam and max, I wish i could see his boxing glove in his own inventory, He is so much cooler
  • edited January 2009
    There was this one time that you could play in maxes body. Remember that time on S2E3 at Jurgens lair when Sam switched bodies with Max?
  • edited January 2009
    Yes, but that was Sam in Max`s body.Not max in his own body!!! (and not max`s inventory neither since they exchanged their inventory)
    Although, at least we figured out where Max keeps his inventory items!!! LOL ;)
  • edited January 2009
    oh, and his head was used as an inventory item in 101 in sam's dream.
  • edited January 2009
    Mouldcube wrote: »
    oh, and his head was used as an inventory item in 101 in sam's dream.

    I remember that. I tried using him on all sorts of things. Sam said no to all of them.
    DENIED!
  • edited January 2009
    Yes,i remember that!
  • edited January 2009
    I just envisioned Max's inventory picture to be his tail and when you click on it, the animation to reveal the inventory...
  • edited January 2009
    Maxilyah wrote: »
    I remember that. I tried using him on all sorts of things. Sam said no to all of them.
    DENIED!
    The first thing I tried to use Max's head on was Sam. Sam said something like "I don't think Max would appreciate me sticking his head there", which made me go o_o.

    I expected to be able to play as Max when Sam was hypnotised in Culture Shock. Seeing the scene fade back in and I was still playing as Sam surprised me a little.
  • edited January 2009
    Maybe if they just switched for certain PARTS of an episode, instead of having the option to switch back and forth. I understand the argument that it WOULD be a huge problem trying to double the dialogue. But if you only play the character for a certain part of the game, that wouldn't be a problem.
    I could just imagine taking out Max's gun and trying to use it on Sam.
    Max: As much fun as that sounds, I don't think I'll kill Sam today.
  • edited January 2009
    Another thought: give max the ability to alter items. Maybe crushing things in his powerful jaws. This would give a convenient way to make puzzles unsolvable "after max chewed on it, the key doesnt fit" and can be useful too USE> lockbox> on max. "Max chews on the box a while and it cracks open, revealing !!! inside"
  • edited January 2009
    That's a really good idea. I wonder if you could use him to alter PEOPLE.
    "Use Max on Bosco."
    Max: No, thanks. Bosco's already altered enough.
    XD
  • edited January 2009
    I also think it's a good idea. However, it yet again comes back to the problem of Max being an always available last resort in puzzle solving - which the Telltale guys & gals don't seem to like.
  • edited January 2009
    I think I like playable Max better. That way instead of using Max on something, you could just click on it to see his reaction.
  • edited January 2009
    Maxilyah wrote: »
    I think I like playable Max better. That way instead of using Max on something, you could just click on it to see his reaction.

    I agree, this is the best idea, but it effectivly doubles the code for the game, so I honestly think this is the least-likely option...

    Also the idea of using max as a last resort... giving him an altering ability makes him far from a last resort, because it could make the game unwinnable if you alter the wrong item! Perhaps in this scenario even make a puzzle have an alternate solution that involves altering an item --- that you need unaltered later in the game to win! (classic example: Zork 3, you can solve the block puzzle by dropping the book, but you must have the book in your inventory to enter the last room of the game, so you make the game unwinnable and you dont even know it until the very end!)
  • edited January 2009
    unwinnable
    That would just make them lose customers. Me, for example. I can't enjoy a game when I'm constantly worried that I've made the game impossible and I'll have to start over because I don't have a save game that far back.
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