Telltale to Make Sam and Max Cursor-less?!

edited June 2009 in Sam & Max
Link.
    I have a lot to say abut this.
  1. Why?
  2. Why do you need it on Xbox 360 when you could port it to Wii at the end of the season?
  3. These games are partially about simplicity. So while this will no doubt be simple, it won't be as simple as clicking something!
  4. What does this mean for Strong Bad? It worked great on Wii as a Pn'C, but why make a Wii version if it doesn't have pointer controls?
  5. I thought Telltale was the number One Pn'C game creator right now!
Now, I don't feel like a Pn'C purist, but I don't like the way you guys are going. Sure I'll still throw my money at you, but I'd rather do it for something else.
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Comments

  • edited May 2009
    I think they're overstating things calling it cursor-less. The PC Wallace & Gromit episodes are not cursor-less.
    I'm not particularly thrilled with this news, but I'll live. Frankly I'm more concerned about keeping my unlimited save slots.
  • edited May 2009
    Sure, it'll be arkward to move Sam and Max with no cursor, but it's gonna be awesome beacause it's Sam and Max. Ain't I right people, (raise his hand then long silence), aww c'mon, cheer up!
  • edited May 2009
    Well, like someone pointed out at joystiq: Grim Fandango was cursorless and it was amazing so there, I'm no longer scared :)
  • edited May 2009
    Wallace & Gromit was cursorless and it generated just under 9000 comments over two threads in the forums, the majority of which were negative. I've purchased every Telltale series since Sam & Max Season 1, but I'm not sure I'll be picking this up. Telltale have had great customer service in the past and I hold them in high esteem as a company and developer, but I may be forced to vote with my wallet.

    Oh, and Dextro? Read reviews for Grim Fandango. Personally I think it is one of, if not THE greatest game ever made. However, you'll find the only consistent criticism of it was for it's controls.
  • edited May 2009
    I'm not sure why you'd need to make Sam and max anything other than using a mouse to point and click.. But then maybe they'll have a simultaneous release on the consoles.. I'd have to hear the reasons before I get too outraged
  • edited May 2009
    Well presumably they're going to give the same "cinematic camera angles" argument. I don't really buy into that, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how I feel about it after one or two more Wallace & Gromit episodes. I do like that they try something new once in a while.
  • edited May 2009
    Hero1 wrote: »
    maybe they'll have a simultaneous release on the consoles

    It sounds like that might be likely.

    However, that's not really an excuse, is it? Games should be optimised and geared towards the platforms they are released on. Mass Effect was an excellent example of this. Bioware spent a lot of time redesigning the interface to work better with a PC, rather than just doing a straight port.

    The excuse "to save time on multi-platform development" (at the expense of player experience) is not ever acceptable. To be clear though, I'm not saying that's what's happening in this case.

    I've had discussions with one of the designers/programmers ("Yare") in the W&G forums, and worked out a system that would work in almost all cases for both point and click, and direct control, without setting up complicated click targets for every scene, and restricting camera angles (it's a complex technical issue, go look in the W&G subforum and check the thread if you're interested). I really hope they do something like that.
  • edited May 2009
    I loved both the previous seasons of Sam and Max. However if season 3 truely is cursorless i wont be purchasing.

    I can't stand adventures where you can use the mouse. I loved everything about grim fandango except the control system (and it was damn hard lol) but i had to give up playing it as it was so annoying to control...
  • edited May 2009
    I personally don't think it will be truly cursorless, I think it will combine the two and give an option to choose point and click.

    Maybe a use for Warp Drive at last?
  • edited May 2009
    I would be very surprised if Telltale is that blind to criticism. Response to the controls in W&G ranged from "This is so bad I can't play it" to "well, I guess it's all right," but there were two constants: Nobody said it was better than mouse control, and everybody hoped that Sam and Max would remain mouse-controlled.

    I'm hoping the game will include both options, personally.
  • edited May 2009
    Man, this is disappointing...I understand that it was done to be more adaptable to other gaming systems, but it really is a rather large disappointment. I hope they change their minds, but I doubt it...
  • edited May 2009
    Damn, I was going to make a thread about this article. I guess i'll have to be faster next time.
    I haven't played Wallace and Gromit, but I don't think cursorless adventure gaming is a bad idea. Grim Fandango's controls were pretty good. As long as the camera angle dosen't keep changing and there is the right amount of shortcuts it works pretty well.
  • edited May 2009
    Everybody in this topic seems to say 'everybody' hates the W&G-controls, which simply isn't true. As I said before, I'm glad they're doing this in Sam & Max. It's true that W&G's controls aren't perfect yet, but I would be sad if they went back to the old control scheme (and the rather boring camera angles). Sam & Max is made for weird 'action' sequences (like presented in W&G, of course). For those of you that don't like the controls, try playing it with a gamepad. It really makes a world of difference.

    I like change. Change is good.
  • edited May 2009
    I am very dissapointed about this. I loved Sam and Max and i am an adventuerer since Maniac Mansion, but it seems that Money rules Telltale Games now even more then Lucasarts when Grim Fandango came out. All i can say is that i wont buy a third season if it has a "non pointer" control. In Germany ( i life there ) the fans had it hard even in the second Seasen, when the Voices changed they had since "in search for an escaped bigfoot". The new voices are terrible and there are even errors in the why they speak ( in other games ) This new Voice actors are well known here in Germany for the leak of Talent. So its Time to Say good Bye. I think that the guys from telltale missed thair goal to do it better then Lucas. Maybe they start programming only Star wars games for all consoles next year. It would fit in.
  • edited May 2009
    Time for an change.
    Why not?
    Only because most of us are accustomed to point & click?
    The world goes round every day.
    Time to learn something new and to open your mind for new possibilities.

    I don' t understand these whiner.
  • edited May 2009
    Ho hum, ho hum. I do like change, but I also like the good old point-and-click interface. It works for Wallace & Gromit, but would I really want it to work here too? I don't know... probably not. I just hope Telltale build Sam & Max with PC players in mind, rather than the 'buy a controller for better control' (for the record, I have a PC controller) attitude that is used in the other thread.
  • edited May 2009
    Actually, I was kinda expecting this (whatever 'this' will turn out in detail in the end :D ). I'm not too happy about it, but I honestly don't see it as a dealbreaker - I can hardly wait for the next installment of Sam & Max, and I'll buy it even if I have to play it hanging upside down from the ceiling :D

    I also don't understand the "Money rules Telltale" kind of arguments. Let's face it, if Telltale wasn't so efficient at putting their money where it was worth, they would probably have ceased to exist years ago, such is the unfriendliness of the business environment they're operating in. With their cross-platform engine, it only makes sense to bring these games to the wide Xbox audience, and I'm sure winning this audience is quite high on their priority list. It would be definitely a top 3 for me if I was in their position.

    So in a nutshell, if I have to make a few not-too-painful compromises in S&M Season 3 to make sure there will be a Season 4 (or another high quality series in its place), then I'm not hesitating.
  • edited May 2009
    After playing Wallace & Gromit it's quite simple for me... If there is no Point'n'Click interface I will not buy Season 3..
    I didn't like the controls in the Wallace & Gromit Demo, but now after playing the first episode I really hate them and don't even want to start with the second episode.
  • edited May 2009
    Sam and Max is all about the writing for me. From a usability perspective I'm not sure there's anything better than the mouse for PC adventure gaming. I just don't want the control scheme to get in the way....Sam & Max is hilarious, easily the funniest video game/s released these days. Mike Stemmle being involved in season 3 has me excited already. So I can't understand people flat out saying there not buying s3 just on this news, but I'd like to hear more..
  • edited May 2009
    - I can hardly wait for the next installment of Sam & Max, and I'll buy it even if I have to play it hanging upside down from the ceiling :D
    ...
    Let's face it, if Telltale wasn't so efficient at putting their money where it was worth, they would probably have ceased to exist years ago, such is the unfriendliness of the business environment they're operating in.
    ...
    if I have to make a few not-too-painful compromises in S&M Season 3 to make sure there will be a Season 4 (or another high quality series in its place), then I'm not hesitating.

    I could not have said this better myself.
  • edited May 2009
    Booooooooooooooooo!

    Come on, games like Sam & Max are made for point & click! They appeal to those of us who are casual gamers who may not own those fancy "game pad" things.

    If you must have a non-mouse interface, please consider making it a user setup option to alternatively use the mouse. Or allow both at the same time (assuming there aren't two users at the computer fighting over what to do next).
  • edited May 2009
    However, that's not really an excuse, is it? Games should be optimised and geared towards the platforms they are released on. Mass Effect was an excellent example of this. Bioware spent a lot of time redesigning the interface to work better with a PC, rather than just doing a straight port.

    You mean Demiurge Studios surely.
  • edited May 2009
    I am not surprised.
    Kevin did never hide Telltale's intentions about that.
    Since we cannot do anything to overcome this decision, I have just one thing to say:

    SUPPORT MORE GAMEPADS!!!!!!
  • edited May 2009
    Hero1 wrote: »
    Sam and Max is all about the writing for me.

    Yep, controls are so secondary that unless they're completely botched, I don't see how they would matter.
  • edited May 2009
    Well, Sam & Max have always been point & click games, so.. it feels weird to have one without it. o.o But, I won't complain. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it comes out. :) Who knows, it might come out greater than anyone expected.

    However, I wish there actually was an option for a cursor on PC version. (and maybe Wii, as well. ) The other consoles I can understand, but.. yeah. :D

    Have to agree, the dialogue and the story are #1 for me too. So if that at least stays as top-notch like it has always been, I'll be happy. :D
  • edited May 2009
    While the controls aren't why I like Sam and Max I am disappointed with this news. I've gotten used to the controls with Wallace and Gromit but I still don't like them, they're just not as simple as point and click. So while I'll still be buying Season 3 I am sad to hear about these changes, it almost seems like Telltale are selling out to the console market.

    Charlie
  • edited May 2009
    This is the sad truth of stuff evolving, but let me say it again, if you cant do it better dont change it, case and point wallace and gromit.

    Its amazing in this gold era, game developers feel the need to change all the stuff that doesnt need changing.

    Someday hopefully they will Learn, removing cursor, is like removing the strategy from a RTS.

    Another is consoles, all controllers are inferior to how you control on pc, stop making worse stuff. Make it better or dont at all.

    next thing he are gonna have sam & max with realism graphics, aka Brown, Black and Grey colors.

    This is the very important part, if you wanna change something, and you really desire change, drop the episodic format, and making full lenght games. Now that would be a welcome change :)
  • edited May 2009
    WarpSpeed wrote: »
    Booooooooooooooooo!

    Come on, games like Sam & Max are made for point & click! They appeal to those of us who are casual gamers who may not own those fancy "game pad" things.
    QUOTE]

    I don't agree, are you saying that point & clichk games are made for casual gamers and cannot expand beyond that? If you are then your wrong. And secondly if you are a casual gamer it's not going to make much difference what controls there are. Its the same game with the same story and same humour, its just a different set of controls.
  • edited May 2009
    RMJ1984 wrote: »
    if you wanna change something, and you really desire change, drop the episodic format, and making full lenght games. Now that would be a welcome change :)

    So you want them to drop the very thing that their entire company is based around and built around? Well that makes sense.. :confused:
  • edited May 2009
    All of this makes me wonder ... gameplay-wise, where would Sam & Max be now if Plunge Through Space had not only been released, but was successful?

    Hmm.
    MaxFan wrote: »
    Hero1 wrote: »
    Sam and Max is all about the writing for me.
    Yep, controls are so secondary that unless they're completely botched, I don't see how they would matter.

    Thirded. Granted, I'm much more of an animation/film/book geek than a gamer. I'm always going to be more bothered by a drop in writing quality while quirks that don't bork the gameplay will prove an minor annoyance at best. To me, if all the best things about Sam & Max -- the humor, the characters, etc. -- remain in top form, the experience will be totally worth it so long as the controls are playable. And no, I don't think the W&G controls are borked. Not perfect, but not even close to a deal-breaker.
  • edited May 2009
    As long as it is mouse-only, I don't care one way or the other.
  • edited May 2009
    Oh noes :(
  • edited May 2009
    This is not like the news that W&G was cursor-less.

    I have now tried your green eggs and ham. I did not like it.
  • edited May 2009
    Hmm, let's wait how it turns out.

    In the end it's quite simple. If they really remove mouse point&click steering for some second class solution like in W&G then i don't buy it anymore.

    Sometimes it's really interesting to see how developers enjoy fiddling around with already working mechanisms (regarding the steeering i guess Grim Fandango was one of the most hated adventures). I wonder how great the games could be if all this energy would be put into fields like gaming depth, challenging riddles, weird characters, interesting dialogues and a great story in a fascinating unique world instead.

    Nah, okay, just an idea, scrap it, let's just care more about cuts, camera angles, animations and similar really important adventure relevant stuff.
  • edited May 2009
    You know what's funny?

    I liked Grim Fandango's control scheme. The areas were suitable for it, and I felt a far greater sense of immersion. It just doesn't do it for me in W&G, and I like my ultra-comfortable adventure game position, where I sit side-on to my desk, lean back in my chair and just game with my mouse. Sometimes I take my mouse to bed and play there. I like having that ability.
  • edited May 2009
    It just doesn't do it for me in W&G, and I like my ultra-comfortable adventure game position, where I sit side-on to my desk, lean back in my chair and just game with my mouse.

    You've just described how I like playing adventure games. Word for word. Amazing :D
  • edited May 2009
    I think I disagree with the general opinion of this - you guys aren't thinking about what that could mean. The mouse controls for the car sections were painful, but keyboard or gamepad was perfect for it. This is a great chance to up the action and violence to levels seen in the comics and TV series, which the thought of makes me salivate.

    As long as both are used and the keyboard/controller is kept to things such as the car and minigame type action then I can only see this as a great thing to have.
  • edited May 2009
    You could use keyboard controls in the existing mini-games in Seasons 1 and 2 if you wanted to (and I did). That part is OK, because it's easier to control action sequences that way, and those are the kinds of games that the game pads and joysticks are made for. For an exploring-style adventure game, I don't think anything beats the mouse.

    I won't be one of the ones saying they won't buy Season 3 at all if there's no mouse control, but it's not going to be an automatic yes anymore, and I'm not going to buy it right away. I'll wait until the whole season gets done and the DVD goes out before deciding. Maybe you'll reconsider mid-way through the season and retrofit the earlier episodes with mouse control, and that will make my decision easier.
  • edited May 2009
    Oh, absolutely. Keyboard/gamepad support would be nice, and I'm more than happy to use it for minigames and some sequences. The driving parts were indeed much nicer to play with keyboard controls. However, I am strongly against giving it up for the majority of the game.
  • edited May 2009
    Point n Click + Sam & Max = greatness.

    Got to appease the masses I guess.
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