I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to increase the sound quality, but if it increases the download size, it increases their bandwidth usage for each download. So while it may only result in, say, a file size that's 20 MB bigger, multiply that by however many thousands of purchases, the increased bandwidth may have a real effect on their bottom line.
That's why more and more companies use P2P solutions when delivering large amounts of data (like Blizzard does with WoW updates).
I also cannot understand what kind of sound system or ears are required to not hear the problems with the audio quality. I mean, just talk to Miss Flitt in either of the first two episodes of W&G. It's apparent in any of the characters' voices, but hers sounds the most awful. I guess this could also be a problem arising from the mastering process, especially if it's done in-house by someone who isn't an audio professional. They might just be accentuating the wrong frequencies a bit too much, so that it finally breaks when compression is applied, even if the compression quality on it's own might be enough under better circumstances.
Who knows why it sounds like crap. But it does, and it needs to be fixed.
I hadn't noticed until I read this thread and listened really closely I then forgot and stopped noticing. I might have noticed it more if I was using headphones rather than speakers.
I hadn't noticed until I read this thread and listened really closely I then forgot and stopped noticing. I might have noticed it more if I was using headphones rather than speakers.
It's so weird how some people notice it and others don't. The first time I played episode one of S&M (on my home PC with decent-quality Altec Lansing speakers), within the first few seconds I was thinking, WTF is up with the sound? Then I met the Soda Poppers and Sybil, and it was far more pronounced. I thought, geeze fans are going to be really annoyed with this. Then I found that there were a few complaints, but most people didn't seem to notice.
Like I've said, I'm no audiophile. But for some reason, this is really noticeable for me. Starting to question my own sanity, I just fired up Ice Station Santa a minute ago on my laptop and plugged in some earbuds, and sure enough, I noticed the audio compression immediately. It sounds like Sam and Max are talking to each other over telephones or something. With all of the clever dialog being bounced around, it's a shame to be distracted.
Again, hopefully this will be better in Tales of Monkey Island. Incidentally, I just watched some of that SOMI: SE playthrough, and the voice quality in that is exquisite. Hopefully Telltale follows suit with TMI.
I'm all for better audio quality, on the demoes for Sam & Max I noticed it a few times but I just put that down to it being a Demo Version so they might of reduced sound quality to reduce demo size. I honestly don't mind downloading large files, I usually have to anyway I hope the DVD comes with Higher Bitrate audio for both Speech and Music as I'd imagine the work put into this game deserves the best treatment.
In Wallace and Gromit episode The Last Resort, there are a few scenes were the audio problem really sticks out more then usally. So for those of you who dont seem to hear the audio problem. If your interested, play along until you reach
the scene were the whole town stands in Wallace and Gromits basment arguing and talking in each others mouths
It's so weird how some people notice it and others don't.
It might not be that noticeable on the cheap speakers usually built into monitors or the sub-10 EUR clunkers you get with a store-bought PC, but with decent speakers it's more than noticeable, never mind with headphones, of course...
I have to say I barely noticed any aliasing in the Strongbad games, really good clean vocals almost all the way, W&G on the other hand takes a good step back in audio quality, possibly even worse than Sam and Max
I can't say I've noticed any drop in sound quality and I use a headset all the time for playing games. Though it must also be said that my hearing is not the best - in fact I've had to have numerous operations on my ears, wore a hearing aid for a brief period and I used to have grommets in both of my ears though I think I just have one left now (I know it may seem weird that I'm not certain but there you go).
I think that could be our solution, I'll try pouring boiling hot wax into my ears and get back with the results, also my tests in temporary vasaline blindness are doing wonders to spruce up the graphics
I won't complain, and I'm sure no one would, if you just let download a "deluxe" patch for those who care about sound
A good idea. I would like to download high quality audio patches for Sam & Max episodes. A peek at those files revealed the soundtrack is stored in Ogg Vorbis format at 64 kbps. Eventhough, it performs amazingly good compared to MP3 at the same bitrate, a version with quality 4 or so is very appreciated.
I don't have the codec for the speech files, but I suspect the situation is similar for them.
Come on Telltale! I'm supposed to love you, i know it, but this is really getting laughable (in a sad way)!
I've played through every single Episode of Sam&Max and Wallace&Gromit with my really mid- to low-range Logitech Speakers ("Logitech Z3" Speakers if anyones interested) and noticed the really low Quality of the Voices from Day 1 (equals "Sample 1" if you put it that way ). I am by far not the only one who was annoyed by this since November 2006 (!).
This always REALLY bugged me with Telltale-Games - I mean: Just play a little through Curse of Monkey Island (that game is 12 years old!) and you'll notice the Quality of the Voicerecordings feels 5 times higher, that's just an annoying fact that stays on forever so it seems ... :mad:
You fixed the Issues with Widescreen-Support now since Sam&Max Season 2, so i think it's finally time for an Overhaul in your Recording Department.
How about distributing a high-quality speech pack on bittorrent? Seems that would please everyone.
The fact that no one from Telltale has weighed in on this thread does concern me a bit. I'm looking forward to firing this game up on my widescreen TV connected to my home theater PC, and it will be very disappointing when Guybrush first opens his mouth and it sounds lousy.
Sounds better to me. The episodes are available here: http://www.gamesload.de/sam_and_max_episode_1/
One problem though: The demo version is the regular English version, and the German full version has no demo mode. However, you could easily build a Frankenstein-version by replacing all VOX files of the English version with those of the German version. Doesn't work perfect, though. Some lines which are longer in the German version are cut short when played in such a manner. Still, should be good enough to judge the audio quality.
so i think it's finally time for an Overhaul in your Recording Department.
Apart from a few lines (it was in "Reality 2.0", iIrc) which sounded like recorded in quite a different environment, I don't notice recording issues. It's the compression which obviously degrade the quality. A slightly higher bitrate would likely be a great improvement.
Is it possible to tell the sound quality from the trailer?
I downloaded the 224 MB trailer. It has lossless audio in CD quality, so very representative, given the producer isn't playing tricks on us.
It sounds indeed better to me than Sam & Max. Watching the audio in a spectral view merely reveals occasional gaps above 16 kHz on music cues. That would place it even above the rather good EMI recordings.
You probably noticed that most music in the trailer is directly taken from CMI, a game which is interestingly lossy and 22050 Hz only. Is this going to be in ToMI, or are those just placeholders for the new music to be produced? Either way, Telltale Games is apparently in possession of high quality recordings of the CMI soundtrack.
And also, how much would it effect the file size to upgrade the sound?
On "Culture Shock" the voice is 18.9 MB and the music is 14.7 MB. So adding about 30 MB would almost double the bitrate, which should be quite good. And adding about 50 MB would be somewhere comparable to Ogg Vorbis quality 5 which would be above the average game quality. That is not exactly excessive big, but still in very reasonable regions, I'd say.
I downloaded the 224 MB trailer. It has lossless audio in CD quality, so very representative, given the producer isn't playing tricks on us.
It sounds indeed better to me than Sam & Max. Watching the audio in a spectral view merely reveals occasional gaps above 16 kHz on music cues. That would place it even above the rather good EMI recordings.
It seems to me that previous gameplay footage previews for other games have contained higher quality voice samples than what were found in the final product. As though the trailers were compiled prior to everything being fed through the Audio Compressionator. If I had more motivation, I'd try to find a specific example, but considering this is all speculation until the final product is released anyway, I'm going to try not to exert too much more energy on this topic.
The dilemma I'm facing is this, however. If I could get some sort of assurance from Telltale on this subject, I'd immediately preorder. After all, I'd really like the Steve Purcell artwork. On the other hand, if the audio quality ends up being "business as usual", I may take a pass on this one. Gotta "vote with my dollar" and such.
The poor sound quality gets a mention in the latest Mojo review of W&G.
"Muzzled! is closer to 4 skulls than the previous episodes, but the low quality speech still grates in my poor ears for every sibilant uttered by the actors."
"A 2009 game being beaten by a game from 1992 in the sound quality department shouldn't happen."
So is anyone up for taking bets? 10$ that the audio is just as poor in Money Island?.
Would it be funny to know what sound system they use at Telltale? i mean use so hours and hours opon end to record such fun and clever dialog, only to have it ruined with bad compression.
I mean that is like making a new car, but not putting it togther properly so it falls parts 5min later :S
Also just played W&G Episode 3, damn poor sound, it ruins the game.
I bet it is a pitch/age thing. Maybe there's nobody at their office who can hear the hissing, so when they try to fix it and think they've fixed it, it's still there.
Otherwise I have no idea. My hearing is fairly poor so I've never noticed it, but this issue has been around pretty much since day one. Pretty sad.
My hearing goes in and out... like I can hear things really far away... but when me wife starts nagging my hearing seems to go out.. its the strangest thing.
If one of the previous posts is to be believed, 64kbps VBR OGG is pretty low for music standards but would be considered "ok" for Vocal with 80kbps VBR being the high end for Vocal only. As for music, music should be AT LEAST 160kbps VBR.
I bet it is a pitch/age thing. Maybe there's nobody at their office who can hear the hissing, so when they try to fix it and think they've fixed it, it's still there.
It's hard to believe that no one at Telltale can hear the problem. Either they don't think it's a big enough problem to address, or something is preventing them from fixing it.
I know if I was one of the voice actors or the engineer that records the actors, I'd be pretty miffed about them mucking up the finished product. What am I saying? I'm miffed, and I'm just a lowly customer!
Might I add, the OP did use the word "please." As a result, I think Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix this. Such politeness should be rewarded!
It's hard to believe that no one at Telltale can hear the problem. Either they don't think it's a big enough problem to address, or something is preventing them from fixing it.
I know if I was one of the voice actors or the engineer that records the actors, I'd be pretty miffed about them mucking up the finished product. What am I saying? I'm miffed, and I'm just a lowly customer!
Might I add, the OP did use the word "please." As a result, I think Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix this. Such politeness should be rewarded!
I've been waiting for them to fix a certain "sound problem" for a long while, and I've been as polite as possible. You're right. Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix issues like these. But so far, nothing is being done.
I read somewhere on the forum (probably in pre-order forum) that the build/package process would change for Monkey Island. Which is relevant because the audio used to be the same compressed for all platforms. Now it is compress per platform, so the PC could get a higher bitrate version of the voice audio.
Easiest would probably be if someone at TellTale makes several bitrate version of a small piece of audio and have people on this thread test it. I wouldn't be any help for that, don't hear the problem
I read somewhere on the forum (probably in pre-order forum) that the build/package process would change for Monkey Island.
I wonder if this issue would get more attention if it was posted in the swanky , VIP pre-order lounge? Ironically, I refuse to purchase the game until I get some sort of word on whether or not the problem is fixed.
I can only hear up to 17,500. No wonder I can't tell the difference between a 192kbps mp3 and a wav file!
I'm sure there's a good and logical reason why the sound quality is low. I doubt they're sitting there wondering how they can annoy the people who have spent money on their products or that they get to the sound recording stage and think 'ah sod it, we've spent ages writing all these lines but we'll compromise the quality without good reason'
Sure, better sound would be nice but I am honestly just excited that there's a new MI game in 7 days!
I've never noticed any problems. Especially since the sound quality in SBCG4AP is higher than in the cartoons, and let's not forget how horribly compressed the voice clips are in Escape from Monkey Island.
I can only hear up to 17,500. No wonder I can tell the difference between a 192kbps mp3 and a wav file!
I'm sure there's a good and logical reason why the sound quality is low. I doubt they're sitting there wondering how they can annoy the people who have spent money on their products or that they get to the sound recording stage and think 'ah sod it, we've spent ages writing all these lines but we'll compromise the quality without good reason'
Sure, better sound would be nice but I am honestly just excited that there's a new MI game in 7 days!
Of course they're not intentionally annoying their customers with this. I don't think anyone is implying that. And yes, it is nice to get a new Monkey Island game.
But also look at it this way... imagine your favorite band is the Beatles, and they just uncovered master tapes of hours of previously unreleased music that was locked away in a vault. The master tapes are of amazing quality but for whatever reason, they will only be selling this music as MP3s encoded at 96 kbps. Wouldn't this be a baffling and frustrating? Sure it wold be amazing to get hours of new Beatles music, but having it at such low quality would kind of put a damper on the whole thing.
That being said, the voice quality in the newly-released gameplay footage sounds pretty good. Hopefully it will stay that way in the final release.
Comments
I also cannot understand what kind of sound system or ears are required to not hear the problems with the audio quality. I mean, just talk to Miss Flitt in either of the first two episodes of W&G. It's apparent in any of the characters' voices, but hers sounds the most awful. I guess this could also be a problem arising from the mastering process, especially if it's done in-house by someone who isn't an audio professional. They might just be accentuating the wrong frequencies a bit too much, so that it finally breaks when compression is applied, even if the compression quality on it's own might be enough under better circumstances.
Who knows why it sounds like crap. But it does, and it needs to be fixed.
agreed!
It's so weird how some people notice it and others don't. The first time I played episode one of S&M (on my home PC with decent-quality Altec Lansing speakers), within the first few seconds I was thinking, WTF is up with the sound? Then I met the Soda Poppers and Sybil, and it was far more pronounced. I thought, geeze fans are going to be really annoyed with this. Then I found that there were a few complaints, but most people didn't seem to notice.
Like I've said, I'm no audiophile. But for some reason, this is really noticeable for me. Starting to question my own sanity, I just fired up Ice Station Santa a minute ago on my laptop and plugged in some earbuds, and sure enough, I noticed the audio compression immediately. It sounds like Sam and Max are talking to each other over telephones or something. With all of the clever dialog being bounced around, it's a shame to be distracted.
Again, hopefully this will be better in Tales of Monkey Island. Incidentally, I just watched some of that SOMI: SE playthrough, and the voice quality in that is exquisite. Hopefully Telltale follows suit with TMI.
I don't have the codec for the speech files, but I suspect the situation is similar for them. Interestingly enough, the German dubbed version is roughly about that much bigger.
I've played through every single Episode of Sam&Max and Wallace&Gromit with my really mid- to low-range Logitech Speakers ("Logitech Z3" Speakers if anyones interested) and noticed the really low Quality of the Voices from Day 1 (equals "Sample 1" if you put it that way
This always REALLY bugged me with Telltale-Games - I mean: Just play a little through Curse of Monkey Island (that game is 12 years old!) and you'll notice the Quality of the Voicerecordings feels 5 times higher, that's just an annoying fact that stays on forever so it seems ... :mad:
You fixed the Issues with Widescreen-Support now since Sam&Max Season 2, so i think it's finally time for an Overhaul in your Recording Department.
Keep it up!
Just my 2 cents...
The fact that no one from Telltale has weighed in on this thread does concern me a bit. I'm looking forward to firing this game up on my widescreen TV connected to my home theater PC, and it will be very disappointing when Guybrush first opens his mouth and it sounds lousy.
np: Billy Bragg - You Make Me Brave (Mr. Love & Justice (Band Version))
One problem though: The demo version is the regular English version, and the German full version has no demo mode. However, you could easily build a Frankenstein-version by replacing all VOX files of the English version with those of the German version. Doesn't work perfect, though. Some lines which are longer in the German version are cut short when played in such a manner. Still, should be good enough to judge the audio quality. Apart from a few lines (it was in "Reality 2.0", iIrc) which sounded like recorded in quite a different environment, I don't notice recording issues. It's the compression which obviously degrade the quality. A slightly higher bitrate would likely be a great improvement.
It sounds indeed better to me than Sam & Max. Watching the audio in a spectral view merely reveals occasional gaps above 16 kHz on music cues. That would place it even above the rather good EMI recordings.
You probably noticed that most music in the trailer is directly taken from CMI, a game which is interestingly lossy and 22050 Hz only. Is this going to be in ToMI, or are those just placeholders for the new music to be produced? Either way, Telltale Games is apparently in possession of high quality recordings of the CMI soundtrack. On "Culture Shock" the voice is 18.9 MB and the music is 14.7 MB. So adding about 30 MB would almost double the bitrate, which should be quite good. And adding about 50 MB would be somewhere comparable to Ogg Vorbis quality 5 which would be above the average game quality. That is not exactly excessive big, but still in very reasonable regions, I'd say.
It seems to me that previous gameplay footage previews for other games have contained higher quality voice samples than what were found in the final product. As though the trailers were compiled prior to everything being fed through the Audio Compressionator. If I had more motivation, I'd try to find a specific example, but considering this is all speculation until the final product is released anyway, I'm going to try not to exert too much more energy on this topic.
The dilemma I'm facing is this, however. If I could get some sort of assurance from Telltale on this subject, I'd immediately preorder. After all, I'd really like the Steve Purcell artwork. On the other hand, if the audio quality ends up being "business as usual", I may take a pass on this one. Gotta "vote with my dollar" and such.
The poor sound quality gets a mention in the latest Mojo review of W&G.
"Muzzled! is closer to 4 skulls than the previous episodes, but the low quality speech still grates in my poor ears for every sibilant uttered by the actors."
"A 2009 game being beaten by a game from 1992 in the sound quality department shouldn't happen."
Would it be funny to know what sound system they use at Telltale? i mean use so hours and hours opon end to record such fun and clever dialog, only to have it ruined with bad compression.
I mean that is like making a new car, but not putting it togther properly so it falls parts 5min later :S
Also just played W&G Episode 3, damn poor sound, it ruins the game.
Otherwise I have no idea. My hearing is fairly poor so I've never noticed it, but this issue has been around pretty much since day one. Pretty sad.
It's hard to believe that no one at Telltale can hear the problem. Either they don't think it's a big enough problem to address, or something is preventing them from fixing it.
I know if I was one of the voice actors or the engineer that records the actors, I'd be pretty miffed about them mucking up the finished product. What am I saying? I'm miffed, and I'm just a lowly customer!
Might I add, the OP did use the word "please." As a result, I think Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix this. Such politeness should be rewarded!
I've been waiting for them to fix a certain "sound problem" for a long while, and I've been as polite as possible. You're right. Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix issues like these. But so far, nothing is being done.
This seems fishy to me...
Easiest would probably be if someone at TellTale makes several bitrate version of a small piece of audio and have people on this thread test it. I wouldn't be any help for that, don't hear the problem
I wonder if this issue would get more attention if it was posted in the swanky , VIP pre-order lounge? Ironically, I refuse to purchase the game until I get some sort of word on whether or not the problem is fixed.
I'm sure there's a good and logical reason why the sound quality is low. I doubt they're sitting there wondering how they can annoy the people who have spent money on their products or that they get to the sound recording stage and think 'ah sod it, we've spent ages writing all these lines but we'll compromise the quality without good reason'
Sure, better sound would be nice but I am honestly just excited that there's a new MI game in 7 days!
i played sam&max season1 the past few days and for me the voice quality is all good. absolutely no complains. and imho my hearing is quite good.
no hissing S's and such stuff at all.
well, i'm no audiophile, but imho my hearing is not THAT bad...
btw. i don't use crappy speakers, i've got an x-fi and a teufel 5.1 system
Of course they're not intentionally annoying their customers with this. I don't think anyone is implying that. And yes, it is nice to get a new Monkey Island game.
But also look at it this way... imagine your favorite band is the Beatles, and they just uncovered master tapes of hours of previously unreleased music that was locked away in a vault. The master tapes are of amazing quality but for whatever reason, they will only be selling this music as MP3s encoded at 96 kbps. Wouldn't this be a baffling and frustrating? Sure it wold be amazing to get hours of new Beatles music, but having it at such low quality would kind of put a damper on the whole thing.
That being said, the voice quality in the newly-released gameplay footage sounds pretty good. Hopefully it will stay that way in the final release.
Sounds and looks great to me