You know i thought the same when i read the headline but a) no Gilbert, no Schafer, b) TTG lost some Credit over the years with all the too much casual focus, c) the steering sounds like an issue to me and i hope that contrary to the W&G thread they this time take it serious and d) you have to be somehow objective and some of those screens just really don't look this great.
I think the special edition looks (as far as style) way better... I wish that new adventure games would also combine painted backdrops along with the 3d style. I really love the art style of the special edition of MI.
Even though I LOVE the fact a new Monkey Island is coming, I also feel that the art style is not what I was hoping for. The 2d style from MI3 or atleast cell shading was what I was hoping for. I am just hoping they stay true to the how the original monkey island felt, and don't overhaste themselves in creating that feeling.
Everybody really needs to just stop and realize the fact that we're getting NEW Monkey Island games! By the original designers! I mean come on!
I agree. It's the freakin' new Monkey Island! The graphics could be a bunch of scribbles on lined paper, for all I care. I'm sure the game will be amazing.
Oh, really? Because after hearing "Mokey Island 5 is coming!" people finally took time to look at the screenshots and came to the conclusion this is one of the ugliest adventure games to be released this decade?
The fact it's called Monkey Island is a disgrace, I say let Telltale do the writing, but hire another studio to do the graphics.
I agree. It's the freakin' new Monkey Island! The graphics could be a bunch of scribbles on lined paper, for all I care. I'm sure the game will be amazing.
The irony is old Mokey Islands (1 and 2), despite having pixelated graphics and 256 colors, look way better than this.
I think the special edition looks (as far as style) way better... I wish that new adventure games would also combine painted backdrops along with the 3d style. I really love the art style of the special edition of MI.
Making a game over an existing one is way easier.
I love it too, but it is obvious it HAD to be that way, while TOMI is a brand new game for which everything had to be planned.
I repeat that the visual style in general is great to me, but they really REALLY need to smooth things. I mean, look at Guybrush's sleeves or at the sword handle. They're just prisms.
Oh, really? Because after hearing "Mokey Island 5 is coming!" people finally took time to look at the screenshots and came to the conclusion this is one of the ugliest adventure games to be released this decade?
I like it how you take a purely subjective point and state it as a well known fact. It makes you look cute.
Graphics don't bother me at all, I'd prefer that the story and characters be solid. They didn't bother me in EMI either, but I just don't pay that much attention to the way it looks if everything else is good.
Graphics don't bother me in the least. It would be nice to see it in top-quality HD graphics with thousands of polygons and textures of the highest possible resolution with normal/specular/parallax mapping. But it's really OK if it's not. Like I said in another thread, all I'm really hoping for is believable animations, which if it's anything like their previous games (which of course it is) I have nothing to worry about. Besides, this has got to fit the 40MB(?) limit for Wiiware as well.
Man, nobody put up this much fuss about Sam & Max being revived. Why now all the sudden?
Man, nobody put up this much fuss about Sam & Max being revived. Why now all the sudden?
(Or did they? I wasn't here then)
I think there are two reasons:
1) Monkey Island is much more loved than S&M
2) The years have passed, and TT's graphics have basically remained the same. Apart from the improved textures, it's becoming all edgy and old-looking.
Well be happy then that they are not just triangles.
I don't see why. Monkey Island has always been gorgeous BOTH graphically AND under any other aspect.
So, why are you being sarcastic? I don't think it's weird to wish a game that's always been graphically awesome (except maybe for EMI) to keep being that way.
So, sorry mr./ms., I won't be happy for they're prisms instead of triangles. And... ahem... they ARE triangle meshes, anyway.
Oh please. Have you ever compared The Great Cow Race with The Last Resort?
Yes, I agree, it's been improved. But not that much a Monkey Island game deserves.
And, btw, are you any of those who think a graphic adventure could graphically suck and "you don't care"?
Well, I've always thought that, but I recently changed my mind. Graphic adventures are still alive, and still sell, but NOT AS in the past. And you know why? Because you can't attract new fans if they see a game that looks already old at its release day. GA need to be more cured EVEN graphically. Or just we hardcore adventurers will buy them, and few other people.
I don't see why a graphic adventure cannot have great graphics.
I still like the Sam&Max look and compared to some of the MI screens it looks almost superior.
(Sorry for crossing posts)
I like that look too, really.
But don't you think it's disappointing that you're liking it more than the BRAND NEW Monkey Island screens? That's just what I'm saying.
Generally, when a new game comes out, you should have the kind of "wow" effect and say "woah, telltale improved". What you're saying is "woah, cool, I prefer S&M" (which is OLDER!). That shouldn't happen, don't you think?
For a Monkey Island game, and I repeat, we're talking about a MONKEY ISLAND game, it should all look better and improved. It doesn't.
I played MI on the Amiga and am still fine with the graphics in ScummVM although i know that some scenes look better on the PC VGA version.
I meanwhile blame the Wii for the mediocre look. It otherwise doesn't make a lot of sense using such washed out lowres textures. It would be great if a PC version would offer higher res textures. Modelling is a different thing, as it also could be done well in lowres.
I really dislike these multiplatform experiences where games look awful on your system due to some weaker systems a game also is released for.
And, btw, are you any of those who think a graphic adventure could graphically suck and "you don't care"?
I Am one of those that think that any Games graphics could suck and I would not care as long as the game ist great.
I have seen to many overhyped shitty games with mindblowing graphics but no real gameplay. If those games wouldn't have their graphics engine no one would buy them. Who would care for Crysis? Apart from graphics this game is just bad.
I have a lot of old games and I love them all. I don't buy them by graphics I buy them when they are good.
There are a few adventures with brilliant graphics. They still don't sell well. You know why? Because the people that actually still play such games don't have the hardware to run them.
I don't care about graphics either. If Tell-Tale were creating their games in 8-bit 320x200 I'd still pay full-price for them. It's the content I care about. A good story with good gameplay and thought-provoking puzzles goes far. Games used to be about how much you could get away with with what you have not about innovating the next latest thing. I mean those games DID innovate a lot but not because they had to. Nowadays it seems if you don't keep up with the graphics race you lose. And it's not about winning or losing when it comes to graphics. It should be about accomplishing what you need to to get the look that you want. Not about what you COULD do to blow everyone else's games away merely with eye-candy. That's not what good games should be about.
We have enough technology and hardware to do anything we really need to now. Everyone should just go for a certain look they want to achieve and then do it. Whether that's next-gen or not. If you're going for a cartoony look you really don't NEED to have next-gen graphics. Really, there isn't much more innovating to do. Resolutions are capped to the point where we really don't need them to go any higher. Texture sizes are already large enough to look realistic. Even polygons don't need to be smoother anymore with the existence of normal/specular/parallax texture mapping. I think that's what we need to concentrate on now. Polishing up what we have of texture mapping and lighting technology instead of just upping the resolution. But some games really don't need that. Really if you look at Tales of Monkey Island, does it really NEED to be ultra-realistic looking? It's a cartoon! These graphics are more than fine for what they're going for. And that's my whole point.
@der_ketzer & MusicallyInspired:
Don't misunderstand me. I'm gonna buy TOMI, and I would buy it even if it had the graphic look of MI2 (which I still love so much even nowadays). I'm NOT a gamer who cares about graphics and leaves the content alone.
You're speaking with a REALLY long time Monkey Island fan.
What I'm saying here is that a great game should have great contents and decent graphics. I don't care about photorealistc games, or games that make the graphics their force.
What I'm saying here is that the graphics for TOMI now look really outdated, I don't think you can doubt about that.
Once upon a time, when you looked at pics of upcoming games like DOTT or S&MHTR, you were seducted even by the graphics.
Those were 2D times and, you know, I'll always prefer 2D for a graphic adventure. But, since the market has changed so much, now GA are made in 3D, but it's not a well done 3D.
If companies make 3D adventure games, they should do them better.
A simple example: MI2 was full of wonderful contents, a great story, sarcasm, irony, puzzles, and gorgeous graphics.
MI3 too.
Now, what's going on? TOMI looks like a great game, full of wondeful contents (the rest I can't know), but outdated graphics.
Hope you see what I mean.
I think it looks fine. Just stylized enough and just different enough. Not sure about those sharp cheekbones though. Guybrush looks interestingly world-weary, but Elaine looks a little odd.
No, man, Monkey Island ISN'T a cartoon. CMI is, Monkey Island ISN'T.
Anyway, do you think I'm asking too much just because I'm asking for smoother surfaces? C'mon, I don't even complain about the low-res textures, I like them as they are.
I think it's perfectly normal to ask a VERY SMALL increase of polygons.
Like, do the sword handles with 300 polygons, instead of 80. Some like that.
I don't think I'm asking for photorealism. And I wouldn't even like that.
LeChuck's design looks like MI2 (which I guess follows, seeing as that's the game with Zombie Pirate LeChuck), but Guybrush and Elaine look very much like older, 3D-ized versions of their CMI selves. Fine with me.
LeChuck's design looks like MI2 (which I guess follows, seeing as that's the game with Zombie Pirate LeChuck), but Guybrush and Elaine look very much like older, 3D-ized versions of their CMI selves. Fine with me.
That's the problem with Lechuck. He is ugly, right, but in this game almost has no face. :S And his beard is so... hard. It doesn't move like a beard should.
In addition, in each MI game LeChuck was mightier... he looks like in MI2 here. It's the first time the LeChuck's design it's not original.
No, man, Monkey Island ISN'T a cartoon. CMI is, Monkey Island ISN'T.
I wasn't actually talking about Monkey Island as a whole, just ToMI, but yes it is. You can't look a the Governor of Phatt Island and tell me that's not a cartoon. You can't look at the talking masks of the cannibals of Monkey Island and tell me that they're not cartoon. They may have realistic close-up shots (and only in SoMI VGA), but so what? It's a blend. And mostly in favour of a cartoon in my opinion (which Ron Gilbert himself actually prefers).
Anyway, do you think I'm asking too much just because I'm asking for smoother surfaces? C'mon, I don't even complain about the low-res textures, I like them as they are.
I think it's perfectly normal to ask a VERY SMALL increase of polygons.
Like, do the sword handles with 300 polygons, instead of 80. Some like that.
I don't think I'm asking for photorealism. And I wouldn't even like that.
I still don't see the big deal. They look high quality enough to me. Enough to enjoy it anyway. If it were like simply triangles for heads and body torsos I'd agree with you, but it's not. It looks really nice.
I still don't see the big deal. They look high quality enough to me. Enough to enjoy it anyway. If it were like simply triangles for heads and body torsos I'd agree with you, but it's not. It looks really nice.
Uhmm, touché. It actually IS enjoyable, I won't discuss that. It's Monkey Island!
But I think that, to attract more people than me, you and other old fans, it needs to be better than enjoyable.
Think about it: graphical improvements have led from the Maniac Mansion style to the CMI style. And CMI doesn't seem soulless! It just has better graphics!
So why not repeat the process again? It would be anti-historical not to do it.
That's what I think.
My whole point that you seem to continuously miss is that graphics don't need to improve anymore. Back then 256-colour 320x200 graphics could certainly be enhanced. But nowadays it really doesn't. I'm happy with graphics from 4 or 5 years ago since we now have the technology to do pretty much anything we want. They didn't in the early 90s. That's why everything was innovating. There doesn't need to be any innovating now. Now everybody can choose the visual style they want to go with and do it....without the burden of having to innovate anything! And have it STILL look nice (which I still think ToMI does).
Think about it: graphical improvements have led from the Maniac Mansion style to the CMI style. And CMI doesn't seem soulless! It just has better graphics!
Think about it: the better the graphics get the less people can play it / Will buy it.
I like the character designs, especially Guybrush, what I don't like is the texturing... it was what I hated about MI4 too - everything just looks plastic, it's way too shiny!
I think something cel-shaded like Wind Waker's style would've been the perfect compromise to achieve something that is cartoon-like in style yet still 3D. It'd be a great look for Monkey Island. Wind Waker is ancient, but still the best cartoon-3D game I've ever seen.
My whole point that you seem to continuously miss is that graphics don't need to improve anymore. Back then 256-colour 320x200 graphics could certainly be enhanced. But nowadays it really doesn't. I'm happy with graphics from 4 or 5 years ago since we now have the technology to do pretty much anything we want. They didn't in the early 90s. That's why everything was innovating. There doesn't need to be any innovating now. Now everybody can choose the visual style they want to go with and do it....without the burden of having to innovate anything! And have it STILL look nice (which I still think ToMI does).
I see your point. And in part, agree with you. Just note that I'm not speaking of innovations, but just some more polygons.
If it's not going to happen, well, who cares? I'll buy it anyway, it's Monkey Island. But I still think some more polygons attract some more people who care about them.
Think about it: the better the graphics get the less people can play it / Will buy it.
Nah, unless you're speaking about super realistic shading, real time crap and all of that useless stuff. Some more polygons, just some more, is something every low/medium GPU can deal with.
Anyway, where's my Grog? Monkey Island is back!
He was a part of the design process and he's looking forward to the games, ergo, ToMI has his blessing. That's good enough for me.
I don't really mind this...
Well, first this isn't the same as he would be involved in the whole design process (or is he?) and secondly at least Schafer creates unique and interesting stuff. After going through quite some TTG episodes this sadly isn't something i automatically associate with TTG anymore.
I like the character designs, especially Guybrush, what I don't like is the texturing... it was what I hated about MI4 too - everything just looks plastic, it's way too shiny!
I think something cel-shaded like Wind Waker's style would've been the perfect compromise to achieve something that is cartoon-like in style yet still 3D. It'd be a great look for Monkey Island. Wind Waker is ancient, but still the best cartoon-3D game I've ever seen.
Yeah, my only issue is that everything is "shiny" because of the absence of normal/specular texture mapping. Of course that would double the game's size because every texture in the game would have to have a corresponding normal and specular map. Actually that would triple the game size, wouldn't it? A way around that would be to cel-shade it like Strong Bad, but I don't know if that would totally work for MI. At the end of the day, I can live with animated plastic-looking models. It's not a huge issue.
Comments
see it here:
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/monkeyisland/
I agree. It's the freakin' new Monkey Island! The graphics could be a bunch of scribbles on lined paper, for all I care. I'm sure the game will be amazing.
Oh, really? Because after hearing "Mokey Island 5 is coming!" people finally took time to look at the screenshots and came to the conclusion this is one of the ugliest adventure games to be released this decade?
The fact it's called Monkey Island is a disgrace, I say let Telltale do the writing, but hire another studio to do the graphics.
And since we're posting adventuregamers links, why not post this one?
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24807&page=2
Funny, people also think this game looks awful.
The irony is old Mokey Islands (1 and 2), despite having pixelated graphics and 256 colors, look way better than this.
I don't really mind this...
Making a game over an existing one is way easier.
I love it too, but it is obvious it HAD to be that way, while TOMI is a brand new game for which everything had to be planned.
I repeat that the visual style in general is great to me, but they really REALLY need to smooth things. I mean, look at Guybrush's sleeves or at the sword handle. They're just prisms.
Some Monkey Island fans are more apprehensive than others and reveal their apprehension in strange ways.
Those reading aforementioned strange ways or what may be "offensive" or downright ludicrous comments should do so with a pinch of salt.
Monkey island 1 and 2 his head was somewhat normal.
Man, nobody put up this much fuss about Sam & Max being revived. Why now all the sudden?
(Or did they? I wasn't here then)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4dhSpFiB5Q
MixnMojo music video tribute that I found.
I think there are two reasons:
1) Monkey Island is much more loved than S&M
2) The years have passed, and TT's graphics have basically remained the same. Apart from the improved textures, it's becoming all edgy and old-looking.
I still like the Sam&Max look and compared to some of the MI screens it looks almost superior.
It's a total lack of graphics I would be upset about, unless Infocom were doing it...
np: The Wooden Birds - Anna Paula (Magnolia)
Well be happy then that they are not just triangles.
Oh please. Have you ever compared The Great Cow Race with The Last Resort?
So, why are you being sarcastic? I don't think it's weird to wish a game that's always been graphically awesome (except maybe for EMI) to keep being that way.
So, sorry mr./ms., I won't be happy for they're prisms instead of triangles. And... ahem... they ARE triangle meshes, anyway.
Yes, I agree, it's been improved. But not that much a Monkey Island game deserves.
And, btw, are you any of those who think a graphic adventure could graphically suck and "you don't care"?
Well, I've always thought that, but I recently changed my mind. Graphic adventures are still alive, and still sell, but NOT AS in the past. And you know why? Because you can't attract new fans if they see a game that looks already old at its release day. GA need to be more cured EVEN graphically. Or just we hardcore adventurers will buy them, and few other people.
I don't see why a graphic adventure cannot have great graphics.
(Sorry for crossing posts)
I like that look too, really.
But don't you think it's disappointing that you're liking it more than the BRAND NEW Monkey Island screens? That's just what I'm saying.
Generally, when a new game comes out, you should have the kind of "wow" effect and say "woah, telltale improved". What you're saying is "woah, cool, I prefer S&M" (which is OLDER!). That shouldn't happen, don't you think?
For a Monkey Island game, and I repeat, we're talking about a MONKEY ISLAND game, it should all look better and improved. It doesn't.
Sure, i agree with you.
I played MI on the Amiga and am still fine with the graphics in ScummVM although i know that some scenes look better on the PC VGA version.
I meanwhile blame the Wii for the mediocre look. It otherwise doesn't make a lot of sense using such washed out lowres textures. It would be great if a PC version would offer higher res textures. Modelling is a different thing, as it also could be done well in lowres.
I really dislike these multiplatform experiences where games look awful on your system due to some weaker systems a game also is released for.
I Am one of those that think that any Games graphics could suck and I would not care as long as the game ist great.
I have seen to many overhyped shitty games with mindblowing graphics but no real gameplay. If those games wouldn't have their graphics engine no one would buy them. Who would care for Crysis? Apart from graphics this game is just bad.
I have a lot of old games and I love them all. I don't buy them by graphics I buy them when they are good.
There are a few adventures with brilliant graphics. They still don't sell well. You know why? Because the people that actually still play such games don't have the hardware to run them.
We have enough technology and hardware to do anything we really need to now. Everyone should just go for a certain look they want to achieve and then do it. Whether that's next-gen or not. If you're going for a cartoony look you really don't NEED to have next-gen graphics. Really, there isn't much more innovating to do. Resolutions are capped to the point where we really don't need them to go any higher. Texture sizes are already large enough to look realistic. Even polygons don't need to be smoother anymore with the existence of normal/specular/parallax texture mapping. I think that's what we need to concentrate on now. Polishing up what we have of texture mapping and lighting technology instead of just upping the resolution. But some games really don't need that. Really if you look at Tales of Monkey Island, does it really NEED to be ultra-realistic looking? It's a cartoon! These graphics are more than fine for what they're going for. And that's my whole point.
Don't misunderstand me. I'm gonna buy TOMI, and I would buy it even if it had the graphic look of MI2 (which I still love so much even nowadays). I'm NOT a gamer who cares about graphics and leaves the content alone.
You're speaking with a REALLY long time Monkey Island fan.
What I'm saying here is that a great game should have great contents and decent graphics. I don't care about photorealistc games, or games that make the graphics their force.
What I'm saying here is that the graphics for TOMI now look really outdated, I don't think you can doubt about that.
Once upon a time, when you looked at pics of upcoming games like DOTT or S&MHTR, you were seducted even by the graphics.
Those were 2D times and, you know, I'll always prefer 2D for a graphic adventure. But, since the market has changed so much, now GA are made in 3D, but it's not a well done 3D.
If companies make 3D adventure games, they should do them better.
A simple example: MI2 was full of wonderful contents, a great story, sarcasm, irony, puzzles, and gorgeous graphics.
MI3 too.
Now, what's going on? TOMI looks like a great game, full of wondeful contents (the rest I can't know), but outdated graphics.
Hope you see what I mean.
No, man, Monkey Island ISN'T a cartoon. CMI is, Monkey Island ISN'T.
Anyway, do you think I'm asking too much just because I'm asking for smoother surfaces? C'mon, I don't even complain about the low-res textures, I like them as they are.
I think it's perfectly normal to ask a VERY SMALL increase of polygons.
Like, do the sword handles with 300 polygons, instead of 80. Some like that.
I don't think I'm asking for photorealism. And I wouldn't even like that.
That's the problem with Lechuck. He is ugly, right, but in this game almost has no face. :S And his beard is so... hard. It doesn't move like a beard should.
In addition, in each MI game LeChuck was mightier... he looks like in MI2 here. It's the first time the LeChuck's design it's not original.
I still don't see the big deal. They look high quality enough to me. Enough to enjoy it anyway. If it were like simply triangles for heads and body torsos I'd agree with you, but it's not. It looks really nice.
Uhmm, touché. It actually IS enjoyable, I won't discuss that. It's Monkey Island!
But I think that, to attract more people than me, you and other old fans, it needs to be better than enjoyable.
Think about it: graphical improvements have led from the Maniac Mansion style to the CMI style. And CMI doesn't seem soulless! It just has better graphics!
So why not repeat the process again? It would be anti-historical not to do it.
That's what I think.
Think about it: the better the graphics get the less people can play it / Will buy it.
Er... it is.
I think something cel-shaded like Wind Waker's style would've been the perfect compromise to achieve something that is cartoon-like in style yet still 3D. It'd be a great look for Monkey Island. Wind Waker is ancient, but still the best cartoon-3D game I've ever seen.
I see your point. And in part, agree with you. Just note that I'm not speaking of innovations, but just some more polygons.
If it's not going to happen, well, who cares? I'll buy it anyway, it's Monkey Island. But I still think some more polygons attract some more people who care about them.
Nah, unless you're speaking about super realistic shading, real time crap and all of that useless stuff. Some more polygons, just some more, is something every low/medium GPU can deal with.
Anyway, where's my Grog? Monkey Island is back!
Well, first this isn't the same as he would be involved in the whole design process (or is he?) and secondly at least Schafer creates unique and interesting stuff. After going through quite some TTG episodes this sadly isn't something i automatically associate with TTG anymore.
Yeah, my only issue is that everything is "shiny" because of the absence of normal/specular texture mapping. Of course that would double the game's size because every texture in the game would have to have a corresponding normal and specular map. Actually that would triple the game size, wouldn't it? A way around that would be to cel-shade it like Strong Bad, but I don't know if that would totally work for MI. At the end of the day, I can live with animated plastic-looking models. It's not a huge issue.