I don't see anybody stiffling anything. I was just posing the question why when a series was resurrected after 9 years from a company that had shown no interest in its own classics for many years was this forum full of people complaining about everything. There is a lot to be grateful for.
I see your point about complaining about a game that has been resurrected after 9 years -- when MI was in limbo people complained, and now that it's finally being released some people are complaining even more.
I find that attitude strange as well, and those people probably just aren't mature enough to realize what they're doing. But I hope you aren't confusing those "complainers", with people making legitimate constructive criticisms. I see a lot of people confusing the two.
Also I'm not sure if your aware how telltale's series works.. They have almost finished episode 1 now, they are working on episode 2 and they probably have episode 3 in development. So whatever changes you think they will make they won't be making right away and you probably wouldn't see them til episode 4 or so.[This is based on previous TTG series, but someone from the company could prob tell you more definitively]
I know how it works. The developers have said themselves that Ep 1 still needs a lot of work before it's completed, and that's like, a month from now. They assured us that the turnaround is pretty quick, i.e. they could make major changes in quite a short amount of time (a benefit that comes with being a small self-funded company). It's still possible that if a lot of fans are commenting on a major issue they had overlooked, they'd make the necessary changes to Ep 1 release. But even if it were too late for suggestions to make it into Ep1, I don't see the harm in making suggestions anyway. If they can work good fan requests into the 3rd or 4th installment, then great! Or if they don't care what the fans think, they will ignore it. So like I say, no harm done.
suggestions are great! telltale staff is always looking at the forums. the "Control Scheme" thread has gotten way outta hand though. It's turned into a place where everyone and their three headed monkey have lined up to slap us in the face with the same comment. And everyone thinks that they have a secret control scheme that we haven't thought of. The truth is that we went through all sorts of control brainstorms and testing for Wallace and Gromit. We know whats gonna work for our games the best. One dude might think that onscreen arrows are the shit, but we're not making games for one dude. I've told people in that thread that they need to calm down and stop posting the same awesome rants and wait to actually play the game enough times that I'm starting to go insane. I really can't wait for half those people to play the demo and go "oh... ok thx bye!". Or maybe they won't! But i can't stand the extreme criticism coming from people who've never played the game. It's fine to voice you're opinions. You just don't need to post it 20 times in all caps and tell us you're gonna pirate the game. Although i don't know if that's even possible.
suggestions are great! telltale staff is always looking at the forums. the "Control Scheme" thread has gotten way outta hand though. It's turned into a place where everyone and their three headed monkey have lined up to slap us in the face with the same comment.
Well, not EVERYONE . Sadly, MOST everyone, though .
Well, the way he pointed it out made it seem like someone made a huge deal out it, the most anyone said was it 'could be nice'. It was followed by a rather weird 'debate', but that was more about disabled gamers and not specifically about that suggestion. It was just what started it off.
Anyway, Nick - you say you tried all kinds of setups. Would you say it's completely impossible to have mouse controls in a game like this? As in absolutely no way; completely impossible?
I was under the impression that you weren't absolutely certain of this, but you couldn't spend more resources on developing alternate control schemes? I'm not fully clear on this yet.
Anyway, Nick - you say you tried all kinds of setups. Would you say it's completely impossible to have mouse controls in a game like this? As in absolutely no way; completely impossible?
I was under the impression that you weren't absolutely certain of this, but you couldn't spend more resources on developing alternate control schemes? I'm not fully clear on this yet.
I don't want to say anything that is even close official. If I said that there was a possibility of something else, people would stick me on a pike and throw stones at me if it didn't work out. But I've tried to convey (maybe too subtly) that it isn't completely improbable something else MIGHT make its way into the game. Also, we'd be dumb to not be improving on our direct control from Wallace and Gromit. We're always trying to make better quality games. Which is why I'm trying to get people to wait to play. I know a new Monkey game is exciting news, but there's gotta be better threads to spend your days in.
Listen, I'm not being negative about the controls because I think it's fun.
I'm really excited about a new Monkey Island series, and the more excited I am... the more dissappointed/annoyed I get when the game has issues, like controls I can't deal with.
But anyway, I've made my point about that well enough by now, all I can do is hope something will be introduced eventually... or that someone makes a good script that can be run on top of the game (like that W&G script).
suggestions are great! telltale staff is always looking at the forums. the "Control Scheme" thread has gotten way outta hand though. It's turned into a place where everyone and their three headed monkey have lined up to slap us in the face with the same comment. And everyone thinks that they have a secret control scheme that we haven't thought of.
I've read a few of those "control scheme" comments, and I can see how that would be annoying to you, but that's the nature of fanboy-ism. Hopefully it's not getting to you -- don't let it. I'd hope that you devs would have thicker skins than that.
Hopefully you don't get so fed up that you ignore all fan suggestions entirely (or worse yet, tell us to go f*ck ourselves). The fans can be a fickle bunch, but ultimately the sales numbers will tell you what we really think.
suggestions are great! telltale staff is always looking at the forums. the "Control Scheme" thread has gotten way outta hand though. It's turned into a place where everyone and their three headed monkey have lined up to slap us in the face with the same comment. And everyone thinks that they have a secret control scheme that we haven't thought of. The truth is that we went through all sorts of control brainstorms and testing for Wallace and Gromit. We know whats gonna work for our games the best. One dude might think that onscreen arrows are the shit, but we're not making games for one dude. I've told people in that thread that they need to calm down and stop posting the same awesome rants and wait to actually play the game enough times that I'm starting to go insane. I really can't wait for half those people to play the demo and go "oh... ok thx bye!". Or maybe they won't! But i can't stand the extreme criticism coming from people who've never played the game. It's fine to voice you're opinions. You just don't need to post it 20 times in all caps and tell us you're gonna pirate the game. Although i don't know if that's even possible.
Nick Calm down I know such situations can be frustrating, my personal opinion about this thread is that it is a handful of very vocal people who rant in the controls thread. My person approach to such situations is never take such things personally, I know it is hard but thats a fact of life.
My personal guess is that a lot of fanboyism has to do with it as well, you guys picked up a real classic and a load of people (I hope it shows in the preorders numbers) have been waiting for ages for a resurrection of this beloved series, and most of them want it to be as perfect as possible.
Add to that the fact that many people including myself were not very pleased with the control systems of Grim Fandango and Monkey Island 4! I am not sure if those people ranting in the thread really are aware of the damage they are doing to the overall situation. I hope you guys wont be so frustrated that you will leave your fingers from the old Lucasarts classics just becuase a small number of people simply write down their frustrations into that thread.
But i can't stand the extreme criticism coming from people who've never played the game.
In that thread, for a long time, people believed that the game will have the exact same controls as W&G. It was not until page x until you or Chuck were hinting that it will be an evolved version. So, people were thinking they did know the controls. Doesn't explain all the lamenting, though.
To be honest, if I were you, I'd be advertising the new cinematic approach on my front page like the hottest thing since the invention of the adventure genre After all, it's your intention to move these games to a new level, isn't it?
I'd hope that you devs would have thicker skins than that.
Why should they? I'm amazed at how many people in the company, including the top designers bother to come visit the forum and reply to people. People shouldn't take it for granted.
Why should they? I'm amazed at how many people in the company, including the top designers bother to come visit the forum and reply to people. People shouldn't take it for granted.
Because they created the forums...? Because it's common knowledge that most fanboys whine and complain, and it comes with the territory...? I don't know, pick a reason.
Well, the way he pointed it out made it seem like someone made a huge deal out it, the most anyone said was it 'could be nice'. It was followed by a rather weird 'debate', but that was more about disabled gamers and not specifically about that suggestion. It was just what started it off.
Anyway, Nick - you say you tried all kinds of setups. Would you say it's completely impossible to have mouse controls in a game like this? As in absolutely no way; completely impossible?
I was under the impression that you weren't absolutely certain of this, but you couldn't spend more resources on developing alternate control schemes? I'm not fully clear on this yet.
That is NOT what people said in that monster of a control topic. People were being quite vicious over a small matter. And when did anyone ever use the words "could be nice"? It wasn't a debate, it was a madhouse. And one guy even called TTG the next Lucasarts. TTG hasn't sold out on it's fans, but has instead worked as hard as it can to make everything work out as best as possible. I see that best as possible is mouse only control. I love mouse controls. I really do. But trying something new is required of the industry to survive, and what better IP to carry on a new idea than Monkey Island? The very father of cinematic adventure games. It's the same as what Nintendo does with Mario, and we don't own MI, the company does.
I'm not surprised Nick's tired of it. But I'll say one thing. TTG has been fantastic to come in here and read every post and listen to all of it, and even reply. People are taking that for granted and making themselves seem quite immature, to be blunt. How often did LUCASARTS ever reply to topics about Monkey Island, except with a typical PR automated post? Telltale gives separate attention to everyone, and I find that quite remarkable and kind. And I think Monkey Island fans have shown themselves to be horrible snobs to feed on it like they have, without any knowledge of what it takes to develop a game. All I've seen is the attitude of GIMME GIMME GIMME. In between now and July, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the TT staff left! (Actually that would surprise me as they have to have jobs...but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped replying to us.)
All of us are lucky we get any responses at all. From anybody.
I don't know so much, I've seen complaints thrust against developers with such feral vigour in the past that it has caused harm, and I saw one instance of this that truly bothered me.
I used to play City of Heroes/Villains, it was fun, and at the start the developers were on the forums every day, giving progress reports, telling people their plans, and just being friendly. I even remember the head dev visiting the UK forums just to say how much he loved the new series of Doctor Who.
That doesn't really happen any more, and it hasn't in a long, long while.
Can you guess why?
It was pretty much down to some people being so nasty and vitriolic about their design choices that it actually did depress some of the developers, and the end result was that they stopped visiting the forums, they simply gave the progress reports to other devs or community representatives to pass along.
In fact, this is probably why the Private Pirate Club exists, so that people related to the project can post in there without much fear of forumfolk being jerks. After all, if someone makes a pain of his or herself, they can just be punted out of the Private Pirates Club, and they'd have to purchase another preorder to get back in. I can't imagine even the worst of trolls doing that.
But yes, constant and rather vitriolic negativity on a developer's own forum can get them down, believe it or not, they're human just like everyone else, they're not emotionally solid superbeings, and some of the stuff that's gone on here has depressed me, and I'm not even related to the project.
So yes, a horde of nasty people could possibly drive some of the Telltale folks from the forums. Something to think about.
Telltale has my love anyway, they've given me so many recent happy adventure gaming memories for such inconsequential amounts of cash that I could have nary a bad thought about 'em, and that's probably why I trust them with Tales so much. They've got a good track record.
Am I a bit of a suck up? Maybe, maybe... But it's good to have the occasional positive voice, and better to be a suck up than a put down.
I don't think anyone holds it against people for having an imagined version in their head of what a new Monkey Island game would be, and then seeing that (unsurprisingly) we weren't making the game that matches up exactly with what they would do if they were in that position. That's... what everyone does who has an imagination and a love of something. Completely cool. Encouraged beyond belief! It's when that takes a turn into the realm of accusatory hate and personal attacks that it becomes frustrating.
Fortunately, we do have reasonably thick skin around here -- Telltale's been around for five years now and all five of those years have been spent with our forums as an open two way conduit between the fans and the developers.
Some people will always be grouchy and/or disappointed with decisions we make, and often they'll take it to the grave. Their loss! Some people will complain but it will be -- I hate to use this term, but -- the baby variety: "I'm crying not because I'm hurt or mad, but really because I'm hungry," where if you finally do give them the spoon full of applesauce (eg: the game), they'll calm down and probably be happy about it. Some people have misgivings but eventually see and agree with (or at least understand) the creative choices we've made, and climb on board. And then, there's everyone else, who is into our games to some degree right from the start. It's people. What can you do, other than keep making the games you want to make?
I think anyone can have exactly the game they want - hire a talented development studio, and if you're able to explain your wishes in detail, they'll deliver. Be prepared to pay a bit more than $34.95, though...
Comments
I see your point about complaining about a game that has been resurrected after 9 years -- when MI was in limbo people complained, and now that it's finally being released some people are complaining even more.
I find that attitude strange as well, and those people probably just aren't mature enough to realize what they're doing. But I hope you aren't confusing those "complainers", with people making legitimate constructive criticisms. I see a lot of people confusing the two.
I know how it works. The developers have said themselves that Ep 1 still needs a lot of work before it's completed, and that's like, a month from now. They assured us that the turnaround is pretty quick, i.e. they could make major changes in quite a short amount of time (a benefit that comes with being a small self-funded company). It's still possible that if a lot of fans are commenting on a major issue they had overlooked, they'd make the necessary changes to Ep 1 release. But even if it were too late for suggestions to make it into Ep1, I don't see the harm in making suggestions anyway. If they can work good fan requests into the 3rd or 4th installment, then great! Or if they don't care what the fans think, they will ignore it. So like I say, no harm done.
Well, not EVERYONE
Anyway, Nick - you say you tried all kinds of setups. Would you say it's completely impossible to have mouse controls in a game like this? As in absolutely no way; completely impossible?
I was under the impression that you weren't absolutely certain of this, but you couldn't spend more resources on developing alternate control schemes? I'm not fully clear on this yet.
I don't want to say anything that is even close official. If I said that there was a possibility of something else, people would stick me on a pike and throw stones at me if it didn't work out. But I've tried to convey (maybe too subtly) that it isn't completely improbable something else MIGHT make its way into the game. Also, we'd be dumb to not be improving on our direct control from Wallace and Gromit. We're always trying to make better quality games. Which is why I'm trying to get people to wait to play. I know a new Monkey game is exciting news, but there's gotta be better threads to spend your days in.
I'm really excited about a new Monkey Island series, and the more excited I am... the more dissappointed/annoyed I get when the game has issues, like controls I can't deal with.
But anyway, I've made my point about that well enough by now, all I can do is hope something will be introduced eventually... or that someone makes a good script that can be run on top of the game (like that W&G script).
I've read a few of those "control scheme" comments, and I can see how that would be annoying to you, but that's the nature of fanboy-ism. Hopefully it's not getting to you -- don't let it. I'd hope that you devs would have thicker skins than that.
Hopefully you don't get so fed up that you ignore all fan suggestions entirely (or worse yet, tell us to go f*ck ourselves). The fans can be a fickle bunch, but ultimately the sales numbers will tell you what we really think.
Nick Calm down I know such situations can be frustrating, my personal opinion about this thread is that it is a handful of very vocal people who rant in the controls thread. My person approach to such situations is never take such things personally, I know it is hard but thats a fact of life.
My personal guess is that a lot of fanboyism has to do with it as well, you guys picked up a real classic and a load of people (I hope it shows in the preorders numbers) have been waiting for ages for a resurrection of this beloved series, and most of them want it to be as perfect as possible.
Add to that the fact that many people including myself were not very pleased with the control systems of Grim Fandango and Monkey Island 4! I am not sure if those people ranting in the thread really are aware of the damage they are doing to the overall situation. I hope you guys wont be so frustrated that you will leave your fingers from the old Lucasarts classics just becuase a small number of people simply write down their frustrations into that thread.
In that thread, for a long time, people believed that the game will have the exact same controls as W&G. It was not until page x until you or Chuck were hinting that it will be an evolved version. So, people were thinking they did know the controls. Doesn't explain all the lamenting, though.
To be honest, if I were you, I'd be advertising the new cinematic approach on my front page like the hottest thing since the invention of the adventure genre
Why should they? I'm amazed at how many people in the company, including the top designers bother to come visit the forum and reply to people. People shouldn't take it for granted.
Because they created the forums...? Because it's common knowledge that most fanboys whine and complain, and it comes with the territory...? I don't know, pick a reason.
That is NOT what people said in that monster of a control topic. People were being quite vicious over a small matter. And when did anyone ever use the words "could be nice"? It wasn't a debate, it was a madhouse. And one guy even called TTG the next Lucasarts. TTG hasn't sold out on it's fans, but has instead worked as hard as it can to make everything work out as best as possible. I see that best as possible is mouse only control. I love mouse controls. I really do. But trying something new is required of the industry to survive, and what better IP to carry on a new idea than Monkey Island? The very father of cinematic adventure games. It's the same as what Nintendo does with Mario, and we don't own MI, the company does.
I'm not surprised Nick's tired of it. But I'll say one thing. TTG has been fantastic to come in here and read every post and listen to all of it, and even reply. People are taking that for granted and making themselves seem quite immature, to be blunt. How often did LUCASARTS ever reply to topics about Monkey Island, except with a typical PR automated post? Telltale gives separate attention to everyone, and I find that quite remarkable and kind. And I think Monkey Island fans have shown themselves to be horrible snobs to feed on it like they have, without any knowledge of what it takes to develop a game. All I've seen is the attitude of GIMME GIMME GIMME. In between now and July, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the TT staff left! (Actually that would surprise me as they have to have jobs...but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped replying to us.)
All of us are lucky we get any responses at all. From anybody.
I don't know so much, I've seen complaints thrust against developers with such feral vigour in the past that it has caused harm, and I saw one instance of this that truly bothered me.
I used to play City of Heroes/Villains, it was fun, and at the start the developers were on the forums every day, giving progress reports, telling people their plans, and just being friendly. I even remember the head dev visiting the UK forums just to say how much he loved the new series of Doctor Who.
That doesn't really happen any more, and it hasn't in a long, long while.
Can you guess why?
It was pretty much down to some people being so nasty and vitriolic about their design choices that it actually did depress some of the developers, and the end result was that they stopped visiting the forums, they simply gave the progress reports to other devs or community representatives to pass along.
In fact, this is probably why the Private Pirate Club exists, so that people related to the project can post in there without much fear of forumfolk being jerks. After all, if someone makes a pain of his or herself, they can just be punted out of the Private Pirates Club, and they'd have to purchase another preorder to get back in. I can't imagine even the worst of trolls doing that.
But yes, constant and rather vitriolic negativity on a developer's own forum can get them down, believe it or not, they're human just like everyone else, they're not emotionally solid superbeings, and some of the stuff that's gone on here has depressed me, and I'm not even related to the project.
So yes, a horde of nasty people could possibly drive some of the Telltale folks from the forums. Something to think about.
Telltale has my love anyway, they've given me so many recent happy adventure gaming memories for such inconsequential amounts of cash that I could have nary a bad thought about 'em, and that's probably why I trust them with Tales so much. They've got a good track record.
Am I a bit of a suck up? Maybe, maybe... But it's good to have the occasional positive voice, and better to be a suck up than a put down.
Fortunately, we do have reasonably thick skin around here -- Telltale's been around for five years now and all five of those years have been spent with our forums as an open two way conduit between the fans and the developers.
Some people will always be grouchy and/or disappointed with decisions we make, and often they'll take it to the grave. Their loss! Some people will complain but it will be -- I hate to use this term, but -- the baby variety: "I'm crying not because I'm hurt or mad, but really because I'm hungry," where if you finally do give them the spoon full of applesauce (eg: the game), they'll calm down and probably be happy about it.
But honestly, I wouldn't change Telltale's version too much - I'm sure they know much better what they're doing than I would have